Why Muslims Must Get Baptized-- The Problem with Islam

[MrMan]

A problem with Islam is that the Al-Qur'an endorses the Torah and Gospel as legitimately from God. It's just a matter of history that the Gospel was the same set of books in the 7th century that it is now. Sure, it has been translated, but there isn't any substantial difference. The Al-Qur'an is treated like a book, but it is actually a bunch of sayings, poems, that various people who heard Muhammad say, and were collected together, if we accept the official narrative.

The problem that this creates is that according to the Gospel, which is from God, Jesus has all authority on heaven and on earth. He died on the cross and rose again from the dead, and it is through His name that men can be saved and reconciled with God.

And if someone wants to be a submitter ('muslim') to God's will, He must obey the Son. So if someone wants to be a true Muslim, He needs to repent, believe that the Messiah suffered, died, rose again the third day, and he must be baptized and obey the Lord Jesus' teachings as communicated through His apostles. If Muhammad or anyone else teaches contrary, we are to reject it, since God revealed the Gospel before the Al-Qur'an, we judge the Al-Qur'an based on the Gospel, with the Holy Spirit, not the other way around.

And Muslims should not call Muhammad the holy spirit lest they commit 'shirk' against God. And that is contrary to the Lord Jesus' teachings.

Look at Jesus' authority here:
John 3
35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. 36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
(ESV)

He has given all things into the Son's hand. God's wrath is against those who do not obey Jesus.

Jesus spoke this to His disciples after He rose from the dead.

Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, 47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things.
(ESV)

That's the plan to reconcile people to God. We need to believe the Gospel.

Look at Matthew 28. Matthew is one of these disciples that He sent into the world in this passage that you are supposed to get Jesus' teachings from.

Matthew 28
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
(ESV)

Jesus has all authority now on heaven and on earth. So you are supposed to believe His teachings and be baptize. If you are a good submitter to God, then you are going to obey Jesus. Otherwise, God's wrath is against you for not obeying God...for not being a submitter ('muslim') to God's will.

Here is a quote from another of the Lord Jesus' disciples

Acts 2
38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” 40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
(ESV)

Peter taught repent and be baptized.

If you are a true Muslim, you will submit to the Lord Jesus Christ and the teachings of His apostles.

The inconsistency in how Islam is taught now is that they teach you to reject the teachings of Jesus, but Muhammad in the Al-Qur'an endorsed the Gospel. If that's contradictory with the rest of his teachings, then you have to reject that and submit to the Son, Who is Lord. Muhammad is not Lord. He does not have authority to overturn the teachings of Jesus.

Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. ... S. 5:47 Al-Hilali & Khan

Say: "People of the Book, you do not stand on anything, until you perform the Torah and the Gospel [Injil], and what was sent down to you from your Lord." ... S. 5:68 Arberry

Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them. S. 7:157 Pickthall

[Say (O Muhammad SAW)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'an), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt. S. 6:114 Al-Hilali & Khan

https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/C ... _kind.html

[fschmidt]

This argument is so weak. No wonder it was so easy to convert Christians who visited my local mosque to Islam. Even though I am not Muslim, I helped convert these people because modern Christianity is so horrible. Islam is better than Christianity except for Anabaptism.

[MrMan]

This argument is so weak. No wonder it was so easy to convert Christians who visited my local mosque to Islam. Even though I am not Muslim, I helped convert these people because modern Christianity is so horrible. Islam is better than Christianity except for Anabaptism.

No, it's not weak. The Qur'an tells Christians to read the Torah and the Gospel and endorses it as from God. There is a similar quote about the Psalms. But if you actually read the Gospels, Jesus is the Messiah. He is Lord. He died on the cross and rose from the dead. But Muslims don't accept that, except for the Messiah part.

I read a post one time that said who blew up such and such a plane. Was it Irish Catholics? Was it Baptists. No it was Islamic terrorists. It went through example after example. Most Mulsims aren't terrorists, but if someone doesn't convert to Islam, he's not going to become an Islamic terrorist.

[fschmidt]

No, it's not weak. The Qur'an tells Christians to read the Torah and the Gospel and endorses it as from God. There is a similar quote about the Psalms. But if you actually read the Gospels, Jesus is the Messiah. He is Lord. He died on the cross and rose from the dead. But Muslims don't accept that, except for the Messiah part.

I read a post one time that said who blew up such and such a plane. Was it Irish Catholics? Was it Baptists. No it was Islamic terrorists. It went through example after example. Most Mulsims aren't terrorists, but if someone doesn't convert to Islam, he's not going to become an Islamic terrorist.

Islam teaches that the Torah and the Gospels have been changed, so we don't have them in the original form.

Since I generally hate modern humanity and want most of them dead, I don't have a big problem with terrorists.

[MrMan]

No, it's not weak. The Qur'an tells Christians to read the Torah and the Gospel and endorses it as from God. There is a similar quote about the Psalms. But if you actually read the Gospels, Jesus is the Messiah. He is Lord. He died on the cross and rose from the dead. But Muslims don't accept that, except for the Messiah part.

I read a post one time that said who blew up such and such a plane. Was it Irish Catholics? Was it Baptists. No it was Islamic terrorists. It went through example after example. Most Mulsims aren't terrorists, but if someone doesn't convert to Islam, he's not going to become an Islamic terrorist.

Islam teaches that the Torah and the Gospels have been changed, so we don't have them in the original form.

But that is not in line with what the Al-Qur'an and hadith teach. When Muslim scholars saw that the Al-Qur'an and Bible didn't agree, they came up with this theory about the Bible being corrupted, but the Al-Qur'an still endorses the Bible. The Al-Qur'an actually endorses the Injiyl, Taurat, and Zabur.

I am not sure whether Muhammad spoke the whole Al-Qur'an or not. There was a discovery of what might have been some source material for the Al-Qur'an some years back. Apparently, one of the Calif's had parts of it burned. My guess is there are probably some parts that were from Muhammad, and he could have been quoting sayings and ideas that were circulating back then.

Since I generally hate modern humanity and want most of them dead, I don't have a big problem with terrorists.

Even if they disproportionately want to attack people from your ethnic background?

[willymonfrete]

Why would you repost this when I refuted you in another thread and you couldn't give a answer?why are christians so sly and sneaky,by hook or crook?

[willymonfrete]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47592 I refuted this guy here,yet he still reposts this nonsense.