Anyone ever been involved with MLM or Network Marketing, aka Pyramid Schemes?

[Winston]

I looked into it a couple of times, but rather than losing any money, I wrote up this article debunking it and showing why it's mathematically guaranteed for most people in it to fail.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Multi- ... keting.htm

[momopi]

21 ways to spot a MLM scam:
http://mlmsilove.blogspot.com/2007/06/2 ... -scam.html

[Winston]

Hi folks,
Check this out. This Taiwanese woman emailed me from CraigsList, and invited me to a business meeting, which I thought was kind of strange. She wouldn't tell me about what kind of company she worked for either. Then, when I asked to see her picture first, she sent me to her site, which was an obvious MLM/Network Marketing type of operation. She wrote:

check out my personal web site
http://www.3b.isagenix.com

I will be in Chayi only on Saturday
the event is at 2 pm, in Chayi,
you are most welcome to attend the event

thanks
Christy

Then, when I replied:

Oh I see. You are involved with MLM or Network Marketing and seeking new recruits. I've seen this kind of thing hundreds of times before. It's very common in America too. I'm not good at that kind of business though. You have to build a downline and live and breathe such a business to succeed in it.

She suddenly claimed that she had a $5000 a week income!

I am happy with US$5,000 a week
my graduate degree did not bring me that kind of income,
so you tell me ~

I only have 2 interests, making $ and dancing ~

thanks

Now, what I don't get is, if she's making $5000 a week, why does she need me? Why does she need to try to recruit new members? If I was making that much, I sure would not bother with strangers. What an insult to my intelligence.

I replied:

Yeah right. 99 percent of people in network marketing make nothing and usually lose money. It's not a good opportunity at all. Anyone can claim to be making $5000 a week. I can claim it too.

See my article about MLM at:

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/MLM.htm

You also have to spend a lot on seminars and tapes, etc. And you have to recruit people into a downline. It's always the same.

You forgot that you also like food, like all TW do.

So your only interest in me was for recruitment?

Then she denied all, saying:

I am not interested in you in any regard or in any matter,
I respond to you simply because you keep contacting me,
it seems that you want to contact me once in a while,
so out of courtesy, I reply
I never mention recruitment to you at all,
and I request you please do not join me please
you can do whatever you like
but please do not join me
or discuss any MLM matters with me
because I am not interested in that topic at all
I will be more than happy to cut all communications with you
it doesn't bother me at all ~

thank you very much

Trying to get her to fess up, I said:

But you contacted me first. And you asked me to call you.

Let's be real here. Your only goal is to recruit people for MLM.

If you were really making $5000 per week, why would you need to recruit anyone or contact anyone? You wouldn't need to. I'd be unnecessary to you.

Don't pin the blame on me. You should make your intentions clear from the start.

Does it make you sleep easy at night when you lie about your income? Don't you ever feel guilty about it? Don't you have a conscience?

Then I showed her what Momopi told me about MLM's:

...every MLM recruiter I've meet claims that he/she makes tons of money and show off their $300 custom tailor shirts and talk about the Ferrari that they're going to buy.

...every investment scam I've been proposed claim large and unrealistic returns on your money, but you must act quickly and fork over your cash to your "friend" soon, or else the opportunity will expire.

She replied:

sorry you sound feeling so hurt

don't worry, nothing happen,
let's cut all communications
just move on with your life ~

good luck

Giving her a lecture on morality and ethics, I railed:

Don't you see what you are doing? You treat people like objects. You only care about how useful people are to you. That's what MLM does to your mind and soul. It makes you inhuman. MLM is a religion and brainwashes people.

Don't you feel guilty for lying about your income?

She then tried to insult me by saying:

please do not try to borrow money from me

it's okay, don't worry

thanks

I don't know why she tried to insinuate that I was a beggar wanting to borrow money from her. But that was pretty low. I hate people like that who are so soulless, so the least I can do is expose her here.

Her final reply:

let's stop all arguments or misunderstanding
and let's stop all conversation
because it really won't go anywhere

just forget about everything
nothing happen
so you can please move on

thank you for your cooperation
bye for now
good luck

My final reply:

Christy,
You are right that we live in different worlds. You live in a world of lies. I live in a world of truth. lol

My friend Jeff told me this about your $5000 a week claim:

"She's a F'n liar looking for suckers. Do you think she'd get any recruits if she told her real income?"

I'm going to post your site and claims in my forum, to see what all the freethinking intellectuals there say about it. lol. I'll send you the link when it's posted. hahaha

Here is her info from her website:

http://3b.isagenix.com/us/en/company_associate.dhtml

Isagenix Independent Associate
CHRISTY BAIR

Phone: 416 571 3838
Email: 3b.bair@gmail.com

Dear friend,

Welcome to my personal ISAGENIX site at 3b.isagenix.com.

Please let me walk you through the fabulous ISAGENIX super natural foods, as well enlighten you with how you can run a successful ISAGENIX home-based business.

Keep in mind that, I am never too busy to work with you, or for your referrals.

Click "IsaVideos" at the top right corner on this screen, and Call me NOW,

Yours,
Christy
001-416-571-3838 Canada
886-973-655-570 Taiwan
86-137-2842-9800 China
001-416-855-0060 Internet Phone (Worldwide)
9425-9475-3 QQ
3b.bair@gmail.com
3b.isagenix.com

------------------------------

Is that a cheesy intro or what? lol

[NorthAmericanguy]

Yea I have. It was called Pre paid legal. I learned a little bit about sales other then that, I LOSS money.

[Winston]

I once responded to a job ad and it turned out to be for Pre Paid Legal too. A guy answered and met up with me. I agreed to hear him out for curiosity sake. He kept stretching facts and exaggerating things to try to make the case that everyone needs prepaid legal services.

The thing is, people who recruit others for those seem like they are part of a religion or something. Their whole mindset is religious and they skew all the facts and data to fit their religion. It's very odd that something that's supposed to be a business is treated like a religion.

[ladislav]

Hang up!
Delete such emails.
Do not waste your time.

[globetrotter]

The thing is, people who recruit others for those seem like they are part of a religion or something. Their whole mindset is religious and they skew all the facts and data to fit their religion.

This is exactly how you come across when you post anything CT related.

[Winston]

I wonder if this is the same Christy Bair? The website is from Canada and the Christy that wrote me said that she moved to Taiwan from Canada too.

http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/ ... -05_05.asp

Christy Bair

By an order, dated February 28, 2005, this life insurance agent’s licence was suspended for one month, effective April 1, 2005. The agent had indicated on a life insurance application that the new policy was not intended to replace another policy when at or about that time the agent knew that the clients were requesting a cancellation of an existing policy.

[Rock]

I wonder if this is the same Christy Bair? The website is from Canada and the Christy that wrote me said that she moved to Taiwan from Canada too.

http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/ ... -05_05.asp

Christy Bair

By an order, dated February 28, 2005, this life insurance agent’s licence was suspended for one month, effective April 1, 2005. The agent had indicated on a life insurance application that the new policy was not intended to replace another policy when at or about that time the agent knew that the clients were requesting a cancellation of an existing policy.

Since you're so obsessed with her, why don't you just call her up, chat for awhile, and maybe even meet up???

[Winston]

I wonder if this is the same Christy Bair? The website is from Canada and the Christy that wrote me said that she moved to Taiwan from Canada too.

http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/ ... -05_05.asp

Christy Bair

By an order, dated February 28, 2005, this life insurance agent’s licence was suspended for one month, effective April 1, 2005. The agent had indicated on a life insurance application that the new policy was not intended to replace another policy when at or about that time the agent knew that the clients were requesting a cancellation of an existing policy.

Since you're so obsessed with her, why don't you just call her up, chat for awhile, and maybe even meet up???

And listen to another MLM spiel? No way. Those are an insult to my intelligence.

I'm not obsessed with her. I'm just tired of being deceived, and so I like exposing it now that I have the medium of a forum.

[Squirrel]

What's worse than her is MONAVIE, those rat bastards never made admission of anything real it was all idealism. Now me, being fairly new to the concept of residual income and looking into real estate had done very little research on residual income and everything about residual income confuses the shit out of me and I cannot see how it can work. I do see how someone can make money but its a dishonest buck at best. You are basically paid to screw the next guy and provide encouragement and keep them stupid while you gain from it. And what's WORSE is that you brainwash them into keeping others misinformed and stupid. Yeah, I'd really feel good about myself. So I gave it a try not knowing any of that and smelled the rat shortly. After a couple of weeks. The only thing about less work and more income that even seems feasible to me at the moment is real estate. lol

-J

[odbo]

i love the irony of this spammer ^

[swincor]

I wonder if this is the same Christy Bair? The website is from Canada and the Christy that wrote me said that she moved to Taiwan from Canada too.

http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/pubs/ ... -05_05.asp

Christy Bair

By an order, dated February 28, 2005, this life insurance agent’s licence was suspended for one month, effective April 1, 2005. The agent had indicated on a life insurance application that the new policy was not intended to replace another policy when at or about that time the agent knew that the clients were requesting a cancellation of an existing policy.

Since you're so obsessed with her, why don't you just call her up, chat for awhile, and maybe even meet up???

LOL that was funny.

[Winston]

Check out this spiel from Steve Hoca about how he fell for an MLM scheme once and learned the hard way that "thoughts do not create reality" unless they have something to back them up. He makes a lot of realistic points that I've made about this issue before too.

[Winston]

Check out these quotes from a USA Today article on MLM's:

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/in ... 3_CV_N.htm

"It can be very difficult, if not impossible, for most individuals to make a lot of money through the direct sale of products to consumers. And big money is what recruiters often allude to in their pitches."
"You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone making over $1.50 an hour. The primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/co ... _ST3_N.htm

"Robert FitzPatrick, who runs PyramidSchemeAlert.org and works as an expert witness in lawsuits against multilevel marketing companies, says state and federal government officials simply can't or choose not to police multilevel marketing companies as much as he believes is necessary. FitzPatrick says "virtually all" consumer salespeople who work in multilevel marketing lose because the recruitment-based marketing can only bring in so much money. Each level always has to be bigger than the last level, and the "vast majority always have to be at the bottom.""

Wikipedia's stats on MLM's also show overwhelmingly that most people end up losing money in them, not making money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-leve ... ome_levels

"Several sources have commented on the income level of specific MLMs or MLMs in general:

* The Times: "The Government investigation claims to have revealed that just 10% of Amway's agents in Britain make any profit, with less than one in ten selling a single item of the group's products."[24]
* Scheibeler, a high level "Emerald" Amway member: "UK Justice Norris found in 2008 that out of an IBO [Independent Business Owners] population of 33,000, 'only about 90 made sufficient incomes to cover the costs of actively building their business.' That's a 99.7 percent loss rate for investors."[25]
* Newsweek: based on Mona Vie's own 2007 income disclosure statement "fewer than 1 percent qualified for commissions and of those, only 10 percent made more than $100 a week."[26]
* Business Students Focus on Ethics: "In the USA, the average annual income from MLM for 90% MLM members is no more than US $5,000, which is far from being a sufficient means of making a living (San Lian Life Weekly 1998)"[27]

USA Today has had several articles:

* "While earning potential varies by company and sales ability, DSA says the median annual income for those in direct sales is $2,400."[28]
* In an October 15, 2010 article, it was stated that documents of a MLM called Fortune reveal that 30 percent of its representatives make no money and that 54 percent of the remaining 70 percent only make $93 a month. The article also states Fortune is under investigation by the Attorneys General of Texas, Kentucky, North Dakota, and North Carolina with Missouri, South Carolina, Illinois, and Florida following up complaints against the company.[29]
* A February 10, 2011 article stated "It can be very difficult, if not impossible, for most individuals to make a lot of money through the direct sale of products to consumers. And big money is what recruiters often allude to in their pitches." [30]
* "Roland Whitsell, a former business professor who spent 40 years researching and teaching the pitfalls of multilevel marketing": "You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone making over $1.50 an hour, (t)he primary product is opportunity. The strongest, most powerful motivational force today is false hope."[30]"