Is there anything more stupid than joining the US military?

[Shemp]

Tons of YouTube and reddits on the subject. Consensus is that you are selling yourself as a slave, but some of the slave berths aren't too bad. In particular, if you score high on math/science tests, and have good enough social skills, you can usually get into some sort of technical job, maintaining or operating high tech equipment. Thus you get a paid education, benefits when you leave, and not much risk of combat. Obviously, Air Force and Navy are better for this. though Army also possible if you are certain you'll get into a tech job. Avoid Marines like the plague.

The guys who get screwed are the guys with average or less math/science aptitude, who join because they are desperate to escape from some small town pr inner city ghetto where there are no jobs and maybe they have a bad family situation or just broke up with a girlfriend, etc. These poor saps are the ones picked for infantry. Marines gets the most desperate of the desperate and then drives them hard and tosses them out after a few years once their health is ruined. Did I mention avoiding Marines like the plague?

Officier and enlisted men face similar issues for short term (6 years or whatever), though officer obviously more money and better training. After 6 years, you need to be a dedicated ass kisser and suck up to thrive as an officer. Not so much of that for enlisted men if you have valuable tech skills, such as aircraft mechanic, computer tech, etc. No more ass kissing than in similar corporate jobs, since they can't afford to piss those guys off too badly and have them not re-enlist. On the other hand, once you get past 10 years, they have you over the barrel, since they know you want that 20 year retirement (no partial retirement, even at 19 years). At 19 years, they can ask you to eat a bowl of shit and "say thank you, sir, that was delicious, I'd like some more please" and by God you'll do it and they know it. For most people, best idea is do one 6 year hitch as a techie, join reserves, come back doing the same techie job you were doing before except as a contracted civilian.

Patriotism is almost never a factor. Military types talk about patriotism to feel good about themselves, but the real motivation is mostly money, plus some of those stupid Marine (and to a lesser extent Army) types actually want to see combat and get a chance to shoot people and be shot at themselves so they go out in a blaze of glory and don't have to worry about getting old, saving for retirement, preserving their health, etc. Be a techie and you can mostly avoid these idiots.

[Winston]

It beats being a hobo or a drifter or dead. They force you to work out, wear a uniform, get and stay in reasonable shape and follow basic commands. Plenty of girls dig a man in uniform, bonus points if he's not all too shabby once out of it. Plus there's the guns, missions abroad, the potential danger of it all. I would not personally join the army, but maybe if I had a good-for-nothing incel son wasting his life on the internet spewing self-pitying nonsense, I'd sign his ass up.

Sorry but I'm sure it's illegal to force your kids to go into the military against their will. Especially in Holland where individual rights are valued and honored. In the US or Europe I don't think parents can force their kids to join the military against their will. Maybe if they are under 18 you could send them to military school, but not if they are over 18. And if they are under 18 they cannot enlist in the real military anyway. Thank goodness for that.

[HappyGuy]

And if they are under 18 they cannot enlist in the real military anyway. Thank goodness for that.

It used to be 16 or 17 in the 80s and early 90s I think. The military recruited boys to drop out of high school before they were even 18 to serve. I think there was always a competition between the Army, the Marines and the Navy so they tried to get them young before they went somewhere else. Like college. If anyone knows more about this feel free to fill me in.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I haven't been following this thread, but agree with CE's post above. Has it been mentioned in here that the U.S. military's retirement program is one of the most attractive in the world? You can begin receiving benefits immediately once you get 20 years in. So you can enlist right out of high school and retire with enough to live on at 38. If you join the Air Force or Coast Guard, or get the right MOS in the other branches, you won't need to worry particularly about being involved in hostilities.

I grew up as an Air Force dependent, and really loved the life. Wouldn't trade it. It allowed me to live in England, the Panama Canal Zone, the Bay Area, the D.C. area and Louisiana. Despite the rigid rank hierarchy, there is a real sense of egalitarianism and community on a military base that you typically don't find any more in American civilian communities. If I had it to do over again I might try to get my twenty in, especially the way my father did it -- in the JAG corps. You skip most of the military chickenshit, and don't have to work nearly as hard as civilian lawyers.

This thread illustrated to me that this forum has an over-representation of outright losers. The military is not for everyone, but it is indeed for many. For something like military service, which is a proven means of self-development, to be derided as stupid just shows the low caliber of some of men who populate this forum.

Further, I find that those who are most outspoken about the military are those LEAST likely to be able to be accepted into it, let alone succeed in it. To me, that is the problem with this thread and others. It is sour grapes for people to castigate that which they are not good enough for.

In fact, such has become a recurring theme on this forum. Throw rocks at that which you feel you could never enjoy. We see in the the player hating, the class envy, the travel envy, and we see it here.

In a sense, the type of person who feels military service is stupid, is just the type of person the military does not at all need. The military needs capable men (and women) of courage, principle, and talent. Keyboard warriors with flawed logic, and no ability to differentiate their opinions from fact would not be welcome and nor should they be. So the system works. Keep out the lesser men and choose, train, develop, and promote the most capable.

Ask yourself who among the military haters here would you want fighting with you in a conflict. I might select one or two, but most would end up in the trash bin of rejects.

[Moretorque]

They took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States if I am not mistaken ? What is going on with the military today and how it is used is not even close. I was reading where they were stating there was over 19 trillion missing at the DOD, this countries power structure is nothing more than a mafia following the British model out of the CITI.

These people have built enough weapons to destroy the earth multiple times and they are still building more and more... The whole thing is just childish.

[Winston]

Check out this documentary about US military vets who were disabled or maimed, and traumatized with post traumatic stress order, going to the famous Lourdes Shrine in France to seek healing.



The video is very touching, and you can't help but feel sorry for these disabled vets. But one thing you can't help but think either, and that is: It would have been FAR FAR better if these Vets had NEVER even joined the military in the first place. Then all this healing and trauma wouldn't even have been necessary. What's sad if you think about it, was that all this trauma that they suffered, and physical injury, were largely UNNECESSARY and could have been avoided, for instance, if they read my articles. That's the true tragedy of it, if you think about it.

The problem is that men like CE are all 100 percent ego and cannot think for themselves or weigh logic and evidence on both sides, and are not open and hence never change their opinions on anything.

[Winston]

They took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States if I am not mistaken ? What is going on with the military today and how it is used is not even close. I was reading where they were stating there was over 19 trillion missing at the DOD, this countries power structure is nothing more than a mafia following the British model out of the CITI.

These people have built enough weapons to destroy the earth multiple times and they are still building more and more... The whole thing is just childish.

Right. If they truly wanted to defend American freedoms and serve their country (the people, not corporations) they'd get rid of the scum in Washington DC and the bankers that have hijacked the system, including the NWO globalists and illuminati and communists and Satanic scum there. They'd help "drain the swamp" as Donald Trump would say. But they don't. They just let themselves be tools and follow the orders of whoever has hijacked the system, whether good or bad. That's the irony of it. If evil forces hijack the US (and they have) then of course they will pretend to be the good guys and trick everyone about it.

At that point, what can you do? If you fight them, you commit treason and are a terrorist, even if they are the bad guys. So it's a no-win situation. The founding fathers of America never explained what the people should do if evil were to hijack America. Thomas Jefferson reportedly said that there needs to be an armed bloody revolution in America every 30 years to keep liberty. He knew that corruption and evil would eventually hijack it, but he left no provisions or laws on what to do if that were to happen. In the Analects of Confucius, it also said that people have a right to overthrow and replace an evil government or regime, which the Chinese government tries to suppress and never tells you about of course.

Remember the military takes an oath to defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic. They never consider that domestic enemies could be in control of government and banking. That's the core flaw. Once evil hijacks the government, then the bad becomes the good, officially that is. So if you are not with the bad guys, then you become the bad guy. It's upside down and inverted and Orwellian. So they never defend the US from domestic enemies after all.

If they did, then the US military would be worth something. But as it stands, they have no honor or virtue or pride. All they do is follow orders. If they were like King Arthur and his Knights, then they'd fight for truth and justice and good and be worth something, and be worth joining. But they don't do that. They are USED and BRAINWASHED by whoever is in power, whether good or bad. That's the truth. Nothing honorable about that if you think about it. The problem is that men like CE cannot think or reason. Or perhaps they can, but they are brainwashed by pride and stubbornness.

[Winston]

I haven't been following this thread, but agree with CE's post above. Has it been mentioned in here that the U.S. military's retirement program is one of the most attractive in the world? You can begin receiving benefits immediately once you get 20 years in. So you can enlist right out of high school and retire with enough to live on at 38. If you join the Air Force or Coast Guard, or get the right MOS in the other branches, you won't need to worry particularly about being involved in hostilities.

I grew up as an Air Force dependent, and really loved the life. Wouldn't trade it. It allowed me to live in England, the Panama Canal Zone, the Bay Area, the D.C. area and Louisiana. Despite the rigid rank hierarchy, there is a real sense of egalitarianism and community on a military base that you typically don't find any more in American civilian communities. If I had it to do over again I might try to get my twenty in, especially the way my father did it -- in the JAG corps. You skip most of the military chickenshit, and don't have to work nearly as hard as civilian lawyers.

This thread illustrated to me that this forum has an over-representation of outright losers. The military is not for everyone, but it is indeed for many. For something like military service, which is a proven means of self-development, to be derided as stupid just shows the low caliber of some of men who populate this forum.

Further, I find that those who are most outspoken about the military are those LEAST likely to be able to be accepted into it, let alone succeed in it. To me, that is the problem with this thread and others. It is sour grapes for people to castigate that which they are not good enough for.

In fact, such has become a recurring theme on this forum. Throw rocks at that which you feel you could never enjoy. We see in the the player hating, the class envy, the travel envy, and we see it here.

In a sense, the type of person who feels military service is stupid, is just the type of person the military does not at all need. The military needs capable men (and women) of courage, principle, and talent. Keyboard warriors with flawed logic, and no ability to differentiate their opinions from fact would not be welcome and nor should they be. So the system works. Keep out the lesser men and choose, train, develop, and promote the most capable.

Ask yourself who among the military haters here would you want fighting with you in a conflict. I might select one or two, but most would end up in the trash bin of rejects.

Your statements are PURE OPINION. No fact. And full of snobbery and ad hominem attacks too. You can't win the debate and can't win on the issues. So you resort to insult and shame and claim that the critics "are not good enough for the US military". That's typical of low IQ people with a small mind. But CE, you are supposed to be smarter than that. WTF? Perhaps you are brainwashed by your pride and stubbornness.

Sorry man. No go. Your statements are meaningless from a logical standpoint. You also dodge the CRITICAL ISSUES AND QUESTIONS. Let me ask you this:

What good has the US military done? When has it ever defended our freedoms or protected our Constitution or served their country? When? Give some examples. Even if it did a little good, the bad it has done far OUTWEIGHS it.

How does the US military defend our freedoms or serve the American people exactly? This is a key question you haven't answered. If you can't, then YOU LOSE the debate. Sorry.

What about all the innocent people killed by the US military in the last 200 years? What about the land they stole from the American Indians, the Mexicans, the Hawaiians, the Cubans, the Philippines, etc? What about all the good American men that joined and were brainwashed and got themselves killed in unnecessary wars like Iraq and Vietnam and arguably WW2 too?

What if you were a mother who lost her son to an unnecessary war in Iraq and Vietnam? How would you feel about that? Imagine you spent 20 years raising a kid and working hard to feed and cloth him, just so he can go to war and get shot on the battlefield for no good reason? Imagine how outraged and robbed you'd feel. As Ronald Reagan said:

"No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology." - Ronald Reagan

All this was revealed long ago in movies like "Born on the Fourth of July" starring Tom Cruise, which came out in the 80's. So you should have learned these lessons long ago. Why haven't you? Where you been? If you watch that movie, you'd know what I'm talking about. Why has the lessons from it been forgotten?

On this issue CE, you don't think or reason. All you do is insult with emotion and ego. Sorry but that doesn't win any debates with rational people.

Can't you see the sheer stupidity of killing a total stranger you have nothing against and never met, on the battlefield, just because your government orders you to? Once you kill a man, even in self-defense, you are never the same. You lose a part of your soul. That's what veterans commonly say. Is that really worth it? For what?

I dare you to answer all these questions directly. You know you can't. You know I'm right and that all this makes sense. Has nothing to do with whether I'm qualified to join the military or not. It's sheer logic, reason, common sense and basic morality, and truth too. All of that trumps your pride and insults. Hence, in short, YOU LOSE.

[Winston]

Some great anti-war quotes for CE to meditate on and enlighten himself on.

"Can anything be stupider than that a man has the right to kill me because he lives on the other side of a river and his ruler has a quarrel with mine, though I have not quarrelled with him?"
- Blaise Pascal

"Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable signification is nothing else but a means of obtaining for the rulers their ambitions and covetous desires, and for the ruled the abdication of human dignity, reason, and conscience, and a slavish enthralment to those in power."
- Leo Tolstoy

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service."
- Albert Einstein

http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2010/0 ... uotes.html

Here are my favorite ones by America's Founding Fathers:

2. "The means of defense against foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home." -James Madison

3. "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." -James Madison

4. "No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. " -James Madison

5. "Of all the enemies of public liberty, war is perhaps the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other." -James Madison

6. "The executive has no right, in any case, to decide the question, whether there is or is not cause for declaring war." -James Madison

7. "It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." -James Madison

10. "The spirit of this country is totally adverse to a large military force." -Thomas Jefferson

11. "Governments constantly choose between telling lies and fighting wars, with the end result always being the same. One will always lead to the other." -Thomas Jefferson

12. "I abhor war and view it as the greatest scourge of mankind." -Thomas Jefferson

14. "If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest." -Thomas Jefferson

15. "Conquest is not in our principles. It is inconsistent with our government." -Thomas Jefferson

16. "War is an instrument entirely inefficient toward redressing wrong; and multiplies, instead of indemnifying losses." -Thomas Jefferson

17. "A coward is much more exposed to quarrels than a man of spirit." -Thomas Jefferson

19. "War...is as much a punishment to the punisher as to the sufferer." -Thomas Jefferson

20. "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use our power the greater it will be." -Thomas Jefferson

21. "Over grown military establishments are under any form of government inauspicious to liberty, and are to be regarded as particularly hostile to republican liberty." -George Washington

29. "A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang as when single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang." -Benjamin Franklin

34. "Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin

35. "Great is the guilt of an unnecessary war." -John Adams

Great anti-war quotes by Ronald Reagan:

37. "A people free to choose will always choose peace." -Ronald Reagan

40. "Peace is not absence of conflict, it is the ability to handle conflict by peaceful means." -Ronald Reagan

41. "...no mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology." -Ronald Reagan

42. "People do not make wars; governments do." -Ronald Reagan

Anti-war quotes by Dwight D. Eisenhower, one of the most experienced US military generals and former US President.

44. "I hate war as only a soldier who has lived it can, only as one who has seen its brutality, its futility, its stupidity." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

47. "We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

48. "Preventive war was an invention of Hitler. Frankly, I would not even listen to anyone seriously that came and talked about such a thing." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

51. "There is no glory in battle worth the blood it costs." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

52. "We must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex." -Dwight D. Eisenhower

More great anti-war quotes:

58. "Do not ever say that the desire to 'do good' by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives." -Ayn Rand

60. "All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it." -Alexis de Tocqueville

63. "War against a foreign country only happens when the moneyed classes think they are going to profit from it." -George Orwell

68. "All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting." -George Orwell

70. "What is absurd and monstrous about war is that men who have no personal quarrel should be trained to murder one another in cold blood." -Aldous Huxley

73. "In all history there is no war which was not hatched by the governments, the governments alone, independent of the interests of the people, to whom war is always pernicious even when successful." -Leo Tolstoy

[Contrarian Expatriate]

I haven't been following this thread, but agree with CE's post above. Has it been mentioned in here that the U.S. military's retirement program is one of the most attractive in the world? You can begin receiving benefits immediately once you get 20 years in. So you can enlist right out of high school and retire with enough to live on at 38. If you join the Air Force or Coast Guard, or get the right MOS in the other branches, you won't need to worry particularly about being involved in hostilities.

I grew up as an Air Force dependent, and really loved the life. Wouldn't trade it. It allowed me to live in England, the Panama Canal Zone, the Bay Area, the D.C. area and Louisiana. Despite the rigid rank hierarchy, there is a real sense of egalitarianism and community on a military base that you typically don't find any more in American civilian communities. If I had it to do over again I might try to get my twenty in, especially the way my father did it -- in the JAG corps. You skip most of the military chickenshit, and don't have to work nearly as hard as civilian lawyers.

This thread illustrated to me that this forum has an over-representation of outright losers. The military is not for everyone, but it is indeed for many. For something like military service, which is a proven means of self-development, to be derided as stupid just shows the low caliber of some of men who populate this forum.

Further, I find that those who are most outspoken about the military are those LEAST likely to be able to be accepted into it, let alone succeed in it. To me, that is the problem with this thread and others. It is sour grapes for people to castigate that which they are not good enough for.

In fact, such has become a recurring theme on this forum. Throw rocks at that which you feel you could never enjoy. We see in the the player hating, the class envy, the travel envy, and we see it here.

In a sense, the type of person who feels military service is stupid, is just the type of person the military does not at all need. The military needs capable men (and women) of courage, principle, and talent. Keyboard warriors with flawed logic, and no ability to differentiate their opinions from fact would not be welcome and nor should they be. So the system works. Keep out the lesser men and choose, train, develop, and promote the most capable.

Ask yourself who among the military haters here would you want fighting with you in a conflict. I might select one or two, but most would end up in the trash bin of rejects.

Your statements are PURE OPINION. No fact. And full of snobbery and ad hominem attacks too. You can't win the debate and can't win on the issues. So you resort to insult and shame and claim that the critics "are not good enough for the US military". That's typical of low IQ people with a small mind. But CE, you are supposed to be smarter than that. WTF? Perhaps you are brainwashed by your pride and stubbornness.

Sorry man. No go. Your statements are meaningless from a logical standpoint. You also dodge the CRITICAL ISSUES AND QUESTIONS. Let me ask you this:

What good has the US military done? When has it ever defended our freedoms or protected our Constitution or served their country? When? Give some examples. Even if it did a little good, the bad it has done far OUTWEIGHS it.

How does the US military defend our freedoms or serve the American people exactly? This is a key question you haven't answered. If you can't, then YOU LOSE the debate. Sorry.

What about all the innocent people killed by the US military in the last 200 years? What about the land they stole from the American Indians, the Mexicans, the Hawaiians, the Cubans, the Philippines, etc? What about all the good American men that joined and were brainwashed and got themselves killed in unnecessary wars like Iraq and Vietnam and arguably WW2 too?

What if you were a mother who lost her son to an unnecessary war in Iraq and Vietnam? How would you feel about that? Imagine you spent 20 years raising a kid and working hard to feed and cloth him, just so he can go to war and get shot on the battlefield for no good reason? Imagine how outraged and robbed you'd feel.

All this was revealed long ago in movies like "Born on the Fourth of July" starring Tom Cruise, which came out in the 80's. So you should have learned these lessons long ago. Why haven't you? Where you been? If you watch that movie, you'd know what I'm talking about. Why has the lessons from it been forgotten?

On this issue CE, you don't think or reason. All you do is insult with emotion and ego. Sorry but that doesn't win any debates with rational people.

Can't you see the sheer stupidity of killing a total stranger you have nothing against and never met, on the battlefield, just because your government orders you to? Once you kill a man, even in self-defense, you are never the same. You lose a part of your soul. That's what veterans commonly say. Is that really worth it? For what?

I dare you to answer all these questions directly. You know you can't. You know I'm right and that all this makes sense. Has nothing to do with whether I'm qualified to join the military or not. It's sheer logic, reason, common sense and basic morality, and truth too. All of that trumps your pride and insults. Hence, in short, YOU LOSE.

Whoops, looks like I touched a nerve there.

You don't accuse someone of using ad hominum attacks, then engage in a series of ad hominum attacks yourself. You should already know that.

Also, if you can't differentiate your personal opinion from FACT, then engaging in debate with you, is not a productive use of time.

Finally, just because you label your arguments as sheer logic, reason, common sense, and moral does not mean your arguments contain any of that at all.

The record is replete with examples of men and women who have become very successful in life BECAUSE of their military experience. The number of horror stories pales in comparison to the number of success stories. I ought to know because I was one.

If you want nothing to do with military service, that's fine. But it would be great to see your son defy you and join up to have a very successful career inside and outside of the military. Don't be surprised if that happens.

[Winston]

Whoops, looks like I touched a nerve there.

You don't accuse someone of using ad hominum attacks, then engage in a series of ad hominum attacks yourself. You should already know that.

Also, if you can't differentiate your personal opinion from FACT, then engaging in debate with you, is not a productive use of time.

Finally, just because you label your arguments as sheer logic, reason, common sense, and moral does not mean your arguments contain any of that at all.

The record is replete with examples of men and women who have become very successful in life BECAUSE of their military experience. The number of horror stories pales in comparison to the number of success stories. I ought to know because I was one.

If you want nothing to do with military service, that's fine. But it would be great to see your son defy you and join up to have a very successful career inside and outside of the military. Don't be surprised if that happens.

What I said was FACT, easily provable and verifiable, and you know it. All you gave was snobby opinion. Let's debate the issues. Start by answering my questions above. You don't because you know you can't. Because you know I'm right on those issues above. Otherwise you'd answer them, but you can't. You dodged 100 percent of my questions above. So you lose.

Innocent people die in the military. Vets become traumatized and disabled. These are FACTS, not my opinion. Did you see the Lourdes video above? Those are real.

Also look at the many quotes above I posted. Those are from men way smarter than you. You should learn from their wisdom.

Btw, don't forget that there are many Vets who served who agree with me too. So it's not only people who never joined. See the comments in my blog here: https://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/07/ ... y-its.html

[Winston]

Great memes.





Question about this common slogan in America:



I've never understood why everyone in America utters that like a mantra with a zombie hive mind, when the statement is 100 percent false and illogical? Just a simple "How?" or "Why?" question and person who utters it is totally STUMPED. Because no one has any idea how Veterans "defend our freedoms or serve our country". There's not one SHRED of evidence to support it. NOT ONE.

In reality, every thinking aware person knows that those who want to take away your freedoms, are ALREADY IN the government, not on foreign soil. Those in foreign lands have no power or ability at all to take away your freedoms. So this statement does not compute is does not even stand up to basic logic or fact. In fact, those in your government that want to take away your freedoms are the ones you are serving when you join the military. It's the ultimate irony, that you are actually serving your true enemies when you join the military. So you are carrying out the orders and agenda of your enemies, those who want to enslave you and take away your freedoms, and the freedoms of the American people. And it would be laughable too, if the consequences weren't so dire.

CE, are you able to answer this question? Why does no one dare ask it? Or will you be STUMPED like every other American? Because there's not a shred or reason or evidence or basis for this mantra that everyone in America repeats like a mindless zombie, all the while thinking they are free. It's totally retarded and low IQ and a pity that people could be so dumb. Humans must truly be dumb animals if they can't see something so obvious.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Let's debate the issues.

Debate for what? I have my views on it with myself being a case study, and you have your opinion on it. Again, I just hope your son is more open-minded and less emotionally triggered about the military.

If I debate someone, it will be with someone who basis of knowledge approximates my own. In my first response on this thread, everything I wrote went over your head so you ignored it all and shot off more emotional responses.

From my standpoint, YOU lost.

[Winston]

Let's debate the issues.

Debate for what? I have my views on it with myself being a case study, and you have your opinion on it. Again, I just hope your son is more open-minded and less emotionally triggered about the military.

If I debate someone, it will be with someone who basis of knowledge approximates my own. In my first response on this thread, everything I wrote went over your head so you ignored it all and shot off more emotional responses.

From my standpoint, YOU lost.

Nope. YOU LOST because you were cornered by many logical key questions and you FAILED to answer even one of them. That means you got something to hide and the truth is NOT on your side! Anyone can see that you lost in this area. Even though your king is checkmated in chess, you still refuse to admit it, that's your problem. You still lost by the rules. You have nothing to counter any of my good arguments and valid points. Nothing. No counter. All you do is dodge and avoid. That's why you lost. You got no counter. No answer. No argument. Nothing. Thus you lost. It's objective and simple.

[Cornfed]

Without a decent and loyal US Military, hordes of third world savages would be streaming across the southern border unopposed to plunder America’s resources, while the third world savages within the country would be looting and burning with impunity. All hail the US Military for stopping this. Oh wait, that is happening and the US Military isn’t doing jack about it. Worth every penny.