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In my late 20s I was heavily involved in MMA. I both trained and taught at my local MMA gym. However, despite being in my athletic prime, I would be constantly feeling sore and tight. I used to do submission wrestling on Mondays, Muay Thai on Tuesdays, submission wrestling again on Wednesdays, either more Muay Thai at the MMA gym or a session of no-gi Jiujitsu at my old BJJ club on Thursdays, and MMA sparring on Fridays. I trained obsessively and rarely missed a session. I remember that I was almost always suffering from DOMS. There was rarely ever a time that at least one of my body parts didn't ache. Especially by Thursday I'd be aching all over and physically spent. But I'd force myself to get in the car and travel to class. What else would I do? Stay at home and play videogames?

Why was I so susceptible to DOMS even though I was only in my late 20s? Was the training just too intense or might I have some sort of deficiency that reduces my body's capacity for recovery? The body is supposed to adapt to high-intensity exercise but even with years of training I was still susceptible to DOMS and fatigue. Is it possible that I had low levels of testosterone and needed "supplements" so to speak?

When I was doing MMA, I often considered juicing like some of the other guys who I used to train with, but I didn't know how to go about it safely. Might some decent doses of exogenous testosterone be the solution to my problem of poor recovery and fatigue?



Another question pertaining to generalized fatigue in adulthood

Even though I've had some significant stints in combat sports and physical training, I'm actually quite a low-energy guy and often suffer from fatigue. I attribute this primarily to my botched neurology being on the autistic spectrum, although bouts with depression and a general sense of world-weariness might have contributed to it too. I remember that my energy levels started to drop at around 22. Before then I was generally more energetic and experienced fatigue much less. My speculation is that higher levels of testosterone could have overridden my neurological shortcomings during my teenage years but then my levels of testosterone dropped leaving me with low energy and a propensity for fatigue as well as melancholy.

If this supposition is correct, then maybe getting on a moderate dose of juice would help me with my mood and energy levels. I want to feel like when I was 15 again. Back then I had boundless energy and enthusiasm for life and was always training and doing physical activities.

I wanna get some advice from some of the forum's big manly bodybuilders, athletes and fitness freaks and I thought that it would be better to continue with this thread rather than making another.

@WilliamSmith, @Cornfed, @gsjackson (I know that you guys are into weight training and health)

I was reflecting on my own life the other day and just feel broken down despite having done a decade of combat sports training. I usually feel somewhat melancholic, world-weary, lack enthusiasm for life, and just don't have the drive that I used to have in my teenage years when I was madly obsessed with training and life seemed magical. Might I simply be suffering from low testosterone due to the toxin-laden environment in which we've been wading for decades? Would moderate doses of testosterone/steroids perhaps be beneficial and restore my mood and drive?

I'm approaching my mid thirties and I'm already terrified of my body going to shit. I could never accept being a normal dude with little effeminate muscles and average athleticism. I have to be in good shape with a decent amount of muscle and explosive power, otherwise I just become depressed. This is why I've always been tempted to take steroids. I always want to have a godlike physique and superhuman strength and athleticism.

I also want to feel like I'm 15 again. I remember how much energy and enthusiasm for life I had when I was 15. My libido was also through the roof - even more so that it is today - and I wanted to get on all the girls. I used to feel absolutely awesome!

Is it true that testosterone/steroids in moderate doses isn't really bad for you and that it only becomes a problem when you abuse them like those bodybuilders who take many times more than the natural physiological dose? If so, what type of steroids and doses would you recommend?

Lucas88 wrote: ↑

November 24th, 2022, 3:56 pm

Is it true that testosterone/steroids in moderate doses isn't really bad for you and that it only becomes a problem when you abuse them like those bodybuilders who take many times more than the natural physiological dose? If so, what type of steroids and doses would you recommend?

My suggestion would be to not try steroids or become dependent on TRT unless there is money in it for you or your natural test production is already irreparably impaired. A compromise would be sarms. I'd imagine that unless you were doing permanent low-dose TRT you would always have ups and downs, so steroids probably aren't a good way to feel like a teenager again.

Isn't it normal to have sore muscles after a very intense workout? If you are being hit, it is.

A practical remedy is a B-Complex vitamin. That helps with sleepiness and that gross groggy feeling after a workout that is too intense, but if you are in shape, after a while, that groggy feeling is rarer. You have to really, really tear your muscles to feel like that. Vitamin B complex seems to help a little with muscle soreness. Some energy drinks have some B vitamins, but a bunch of other garbage, usually, in them.


Is there anyone who doesn't get sore if they really push themselves for a workout? I will max out on a weight machine, then step it down as many reps as I can on one weight until I can't lift the bar. When I was getting used to this, I'd get rather sore. Now, I might be just a bit sore, but if I did it over and over on the same muscle, I'd get sore. This is normal, right?

I don't think testosterone will prevent this. But if you take testosterone, then your body may tell your testicles to stop producing, so they atrophe, and you end up with testosterone-producing testicle cells dying off, and less production capacity. Some endochrinologiests will give you a women's pregnancy hormone to substitute for another hormone-- lutenizing hormone I think, but don't quote me on that-- so that your testicles and testosterone production capacity do not shrink But I hear in the US this use of the pregnancy hormone is not FDA approved. Tongkat Ali/Pasak Bumi is supposed to help you retain testosterone, but it might cause your testicles to atrophe if they don't work as much, but I don't know.

There are certain vitamins that can encourage testosterone production without potentially resulting in atrophed testicles. Vitamin D is needed for it. GIM in cabbage type vegetables helps prevent your body from making estrogen, I hear. You can buy a supplement for that, or eat lots of cabbage type vegetables. Also, cholestorol in runny egg yolks is similar to testosterone, and may be a good input into the production process. I would imagine real mayonaise would help.

A tough subject to give advice on because I'm not sure there's a one-size-fits-all solution. Personally I would never take steroids or hormone replacement, in part because there's a lot of cancer in my family. My sister went on hormone replacement therapy several years ago; six months later was diagnosed with endometrial cancer and the doctors nearly killed her with a botched hysterectomy. A fraternity brother in college was taking steroids for athletic performance, though he was a distance runner, for God's sake -- a miler on the '72 U.S. Olympic team. He died at 58, and it wouldn't take much to convince me that there was a connection.

What I can say from my own experience is that, given continued resistance training through life, you needn't worry at all about "little effeminate muscles." If anything, you'll get larger and more bulked up, even into your 70s, and you'll have a huge psychological advantage over normies, who start losing muscle mass at a rapid rate around your age and before. But some concessions do have to be made to age in terms of explosiveness and athletic performance, though not necessarily in your mid 30s, if you train right.

And there's the rub -- training right. You need to be continually calibrating to find the right way as you age. One thing you might pay attention to is over-training, which becomes a much more important factor as you age, and is especially relevant with a high-intensity, explosive training regimen. It could possibly explain the symptoms you're describing. The good news is that if you've been training for a long time, you need less of it to get the same results. But over-training is more likely to give you negative results as you age.

There are a million supplements out there claiming to boost T naturally, at least in the U.S. I'm going to try one that has been chasing me all over Youtube for months, though reluctantly because I'm not generally a fan of supplements.

As for a feeling of well being -- I guess that's mainly a matter of diet and digestion. And I guess the conventional wisdom these days along those lines is look first to the macrobiome (is that what it's called?). Make sure you're getting sufficient probiotics and prebiotics. But in diet as well as training I don't think there's a one-size-fits-all regimen. It's also a matter of continually calibrating. Life is a journey not a destination, and the right road to turn onto tomorrow is not necessarily mapped out for you today.

gsjackson wrote: ↑

November 25th, 2022, 9:05 am

What I can say from my own experience is that, given continued resistance training through life, you needn't worry at all about "little effeminate muscles." If anything, you'll get larger and more bulked up, even into your 70s, and you'll have a huge psychological advantage over normies, who start losing muscle mass at a rapid rate around your age and before. But some concessions do have to be made to age in terms of explosiveness and athletic performance, though not necessarily in your mid 30s, if you train right.

And there's the rub -- training right. You need to be continually calibrating to find the right way as you age. One thing you might pay attention to is over-training, which becomes a much more important factor as you age, and is especially relevant with a high-intensity, explosive training regimen. It could possibly explain the symptoms you're describing. The good news is that if you've been training for a long time, you need less of it to get the same results. But over-training is more likely to give you negative results as you age.

I've read about the importance of resistance training. I also notice that almost everyone who maintains a decent physique into their 50s, 60s or older has spent a decent amount of time in the weights room.

I did a fair bit of weight training in my teenage years (I started at 13) but throughout my 20s I almost exclusively did combat sports training and hardly ever went to the gym at all. I wanted to attend as many martial arts classes as possible so I cut out weight training. Despite not doing much weight training in the last 10 years I'm still strong and am in better shape than most other millennials who I see in the street. Everybody who I grapple with tells me that I'm far stronger than what they'd expect for a guy of my size. But if muscle mass really does decrease rapidly from one's mid thirties, then I think that it would be wise to do some actual resistance training with weights rather than just combat sports training. I want to remain an ass-kicking machine schooling the young guys on the mats well into old age!

What kind of resistance training programs do you recommend?

Thanks to everyone who commented. I'll reread your replies and take into account everything you said.

Lucas88 wrote: ↑

November 24th, 2022, 3:56 pm

I wanna get some advice from some of the forum's big manly bodybuilders, athletes and fitness freaks and I thought that it would be better to continue with this thread rather than making another.

@WilliamSmith, @Cornfed, @gsjackson (I know that you guys are into weight training and health)

@Lucas88

Important topic, but frankly I have to disqualify myself a bit as a source of advice, since I personally am cut from the same cloth as white guys like the Dennis Quaid or Mel Gibson types who do work out, but can stay in surprisingly good shape despite being horrendous genetic alcoholics, just because of our barbarian man genetics and all our Germanic or Celtic ancestors who have been tying one on and then cleaving each other's skulls with bronze skulls for so many centuries (or do I mean millennia?) before those bandy-legged toga-wearing faggots from the Roman Empire came up and enslaved us, LOL.
Forgive me if my reference to genetics makes me sound like Mercer or other humorous jewish trolls talking "blackpill" nonsense though, I'm not doing that, but just adding my disclaimer that I'm not larping as a 100% credible source of info on this, but I certainly can contribute at least something though :

I have seen a lot of guys (mostly weightlifters who shared their progress) who were totally nerdy and had minimal genetic advantages just up their natural testosterone levels by using basic compound lifts (deadlifts, bench press, squats, etc) and various types of healthy diets and whole foods and even spices that help with that.
(Not to mention there's various badass Caribbean and Vietnamese magic potions and liquors that allegedly cause a massive libidinal increase, but I can't personally vouch for any of those from direct experience at this time.... I didn't have the nerve to drink the Vietnamese one with a gigantic horrifying snake pickled in the bottle, and the Jamaican one just seemed like something with a lot of liquor in it, but if I try any that seem to actually work, I will definitely let you know. )

But back on topic of natural testo boosters:
We should do a whole thread about that, because your physiological sense of well-being as a man is so directly tied to your testosterone levels, assuming your testosterone sources are natural.
I have heard a number of guys who earn six figures talking about different hormone creams and treatments (a lot of times injections) they pump into themselves, which supposedly don't cause the disastrous devastation that guys who pump up steroids tend to end up with, but I personally am against either: I only want to deal with 100% all natural testosterone boosters because I just don't trust any of this modern stuff that the sellers will always claim is safe and bullet-proof, but I don't believe it.

When I was in the peak condition I minimized alcohol (sigh, says the 41 year old Mel Gibson knockoff who is pretty much blurry-eyed from over-indulging with a "friend" earlier this afternoon and kept it up with still more homebrew until the glorious hour of 2:30am since I decided to check back in HA tonight), and I also used protein shakes, whole raw nuts (almonds, cashews, peanuts, etc), and ate a ton of cabbage, cayenne pepper, broccoli, lettuce, carrots, and stuff like that. Minimal excess carbos in order to blast off excess fat and pack on the muscle.
Oh yeah, pearl barley is a good source of carbs because of how it is processed slower in digestion giving a steady slower feed of energy (or something like that, but even if I'm being sloppy on the science, I feel that's right from having eaten gargantuan amounts of it over the years). Oatmeal is also good. I like corn flakes as long as you are getting organic and avoiding GMO corn. Brown rice is good as long as you look into where it comes form so you don't get something saturated with toxins, which I've heard is a bit of a problem from some brands.....
As much sex with nice curvy girls as possible would be ideal, but there's a lot of guys who are even incels who don't do that and still look more like the original "Deathstalker" than I currently do, so I guess don't worry...

A HUGE part of the equation is good sleep quality, and in my ardent restlessness in the 2020s, I've been treading the lion's tail about this: This is one of the worst problems for guys like me who come from a youthful macho culture that encourages you to get loaded and smoke and drink everything you can get your hands on in order to show your masculinity, LOL. But if you don't get a rock solid 8 hours with minimal pollutants in you, your brain and entire energy system doesn't get recharged the way it should and that'll drop your testosterone levels.
I really need to take this shit more seriously myself, or else I'm going to end up like some kind of Oliver Reed character instead of the Chet Yorton-esque creature I yearn to be even into my 70s (and hopefully beyond, since I'll never be dumb enough to take any jew vaccines like I believe he did before he "died suddenly.")