I just spotted this in the "other threads" list after posting my Rodrigo "The Punisher" Duterte superfan thread over here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=45989
but thought that was a really enjoyable article by Roosh.
The problem is up front in the definition where most people don't make it clear what they even mean by "alpha male," but Roosh at least made it clear what he meant. Let's quote him, in fact, I like Roosh actually (I never heard of his PUA stuff before and at least sometimes he was too tough on the girls, which I don't like, but he's one of the few with the balls to name the jew as the source of destroying society more recently, and even though he doesn't want to do PUA anymore some of what he's saying is fairly insightful even though I don't agree with 100% of it):
https://www.rooshv.com/not-all-women-of ... alpha-male
Not All Women Of The World Want An Alpha Male
WOMEN FEBRUARY 20, 2012 193 COMMENTS ROOSH
If you only interact with women in the United States, particularly the big cities, it’s easy to conclude that most of them want an alpha male. They want an outspoken, masculine, and cocky peacock that treats them poorly and plays hard to get. They don’t want an agreeable nice guy who gives them compliments and shows eagerness in wanting to take them out. Only by displaying alpha traits did I get laid as I came of age in Washington DC. Before I started traveling in my late 20s, I didn’t even think that women of the world would want their men any other way.
Observation to encourage guys who are frustrated with women: You don't have to swing the pendulum that far in terms of dangerous alpha male badassery or muscles of steel to get out of the "beta male" perception, you could still even be as "gentle" as some comparatively soft-spoken Roger Moore or Pierce Brosnan type and do fine.
Roosh took guys being too wussy and defined those as "betas", but then added uneccesary approaches like being cocky or arrogant or treating women poorly, none of which are necessary for you to still get completely out of the "needy"/compliant/submissive "beta" category that women instinctually don't like because it's too out of accord with primal male/female sexual dynamics.
This is interesting though, Roosh goes on to talk about how the dynamics changed by switching locations:
My game softened while I was in South America, but not too much. While I could be more affectionate and caring, the women of Brazil, for example, loved men who pursued them aggressively. The women of Colombia, used to dating mini drug lords, wanted ambitious men who weren’t shy about displaying their means. They seemed to want a 33% beta and 66% alpha man, a mix that didn’t clash with my prior held beliefs. It’s only when I got to Europe that my alpha male model of seeing the world started to collapse.
In Iceland, I noticed that the women didn’t care if you were alpha, just that you were good-looking and had a private room. In Denmark, I had to become an silent uber beta just to get laid. The more beta I was, the more Danish girls I f***ed.
LOL! That's interesting. I was only in Denmark briefly a long time ago and instinctually hated the vibe at the airport so much I couldn't wait to get out, but it's showing how Western European men have become so sissified they're probably doomed, but I didn't neccesarily expect that he'd have to get more in synch with the local men's beta vibe for Roosh to get laid there, LOL.
In Poland, I killed it by being a horny beta male. While I did approach and wasn’t shy about escalating, I complimented Polish women freely. I bought them drinks and even the occasional dinner, treating them like a girlfriend even if they weren’t. I wasn’t cocky and rarely teased them. I didn’t do anything to manually build attraction. I was just my talkative self and they were fine with that. The more soft and Drake-like I was, the more I was rewarded with their attention and affections.
Here this is good stuff because he's making it clear you shouldn't just run with some "cocky bad boy" type definition of alpha, he's explaining how there's actually a lot of middle ground:
I want to give additional clarification of what I mean by “beta.” I wasn’t supplicant and I didn’t hold their purse while they went to the bathroom, but I wasn’t an asshole either. I wasn’t needy, I didn’t contact them often, I didn’t want to see them more than twice a week, and I didn’t buy them presents or flowers, but I didn’t play hard to get. I led the interaction, but I considered their suggestions and needs into account, such as asking them where they wanted to go or what type of food they wanted to eat. I did my best to increase their happiness, but I also expected something in return for what I gave them. I wouldn’t disagree with you if you said that my preceding definition of beta is “lesser alpha,” but for the sake of contrast lets call it beta.
There was no thought in my head that said to run alpha game on Polish girls, simply because they were so sweet and compliant. It wouldn’t have made sense. They showed up on time for dates, didn’t play games, didn’t argue with me just for the sake of arguing, didn’t stare at their phones every five minutes, and didn’t try to make me jealous by flirting with other men. Even in long-term relationships it doesn’t appear you need to run “relationship game” to keep their attraction level high. It’s true that I did use game to get the bang, but it was soft compared to what I run on American women.
Isn't this pretty much classic Happier Abroad philosophy here?
I've read articles by Winston pretty much saying this. I personally am not trying to escape USSA to get away from American women (it's the ZOG and globohomos I want to get away from), but I'll also add the quick comment that the way Roosh is describing having to "game" women by being too manipulative isn't necessary in all parts of the jewnited states, because even though the country's a titanic, a lot of the more rural or low-key areas and even some small cities have a way different vibe.
The alpha model that you know well, that you use to bang American girls, is a temporary aberration in male-female dynamics, a preference that arises when a culture becomes sick and the functioning of normal relationships—and therefore society—breaks down. Alpha preference is not universal and not the way things have always been (all those studies done today that suggest the preference are being done on American and British women, not Polish or Estonian). While your father may be an alpha, he has no clue what alpha means, because there was no need in his time to actively become anything but a provider. If you think back to the times when women wanted ultra alphas, it was only when life was brutally short and resources scarce, but as long as there were stable tribes, beta providers were preferred. Providing was alpha.
I respectfully disagree 100% with Roosh on this because I think it makes more sense to root any definition of "alpha" in a primal male context like you'd expect to hold universally. He's implying "alpha" is more culturally dependent and fluid a concept, which is BS. Whether it's Conan the Barbarian or Rodrigo Punisher Duterte or James Bond, the elements of being a real man with the balls to take what you want who can also potentially be combat ready toward other dangerous men, is going to be more a universal concept, not something that changes with societal norms.
I still like Roosh, but this is also complete hogwash that "beta providers" were ever preferred, unless you get overly specific and insist "alpha" has to include treating women badly on purpose, which it doesn't. (Note: A huge part of the distinction is who is "preferred" for marriage to provide the $$$s, vs who is "preferred" for sex, since marrying providers and getting balled behind the scenes by the more primal type of real man is a common problem.)
A masculine "real man" that women instinctually get sexually aroused by can provide too though (it's not like providing makes him "beta" if he has the other real man's quality).
Anyway, back to Roosh: This is a good point where when all the women are used to is comparatively wussy men, even feminism being widespread in that culture didn't make the Euro women have this alleged alpha preference.
As much as I want to blame feminism for causing women to have a predominant alpha preference, the women of Scandinavia are hopelessly drowning in feminist propaganda but do not prefer alpha males. Besides the occasional experimentation with a bad boy, they prefer subservient betas. A dominant alpha preference is present in only a handful of countries, most of them English-speaking. Even in South America, a place where alphas can do quite well, you’d be shocked at how many sniveling betas you see with beautiful young women.
I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that something is wrong with a culture if the women explicitly prefer alpha males. It makes illogical sense from a biological and humanitarian standpoint that a woman would go after men who will not provide or take care of them. Consider that women in America are mindlessly rushing to be used as cum buckets, which is being further encouraged by the media and Hollywood that makes fun of beta men for being boring, dopey, or unromantic.
Roosh wrote that back in 2012, but got it figured out who and what was to blame for the sickness in American society at least as early as 2015:
THE DAMAGING EFFECTS OF JEWISH INTELLECTUALISM AND ACTIVISM ON WESTERN CULTURE
https://www.returnofkings.com/62716/the ... rn-culture
And so did some of his other contributors he published on his site:
WHY IS THERE A PROLIFIC JEWISH PRESENCE IN THE AMERICAN FEMINIST MOVEMENT?
HARLAN BLACKWOOD OCTOBER 26, 2015
https://www.returnofkings.com/72572/why ... t-movement
One of them also did a piece exposing the jews behind all that interracial porn that makes WanderingProtagonist so angry and even made him so disgusted with white girls fetishizing him he didn't even want to date them anymore.
THE HIDDEN AGENDA BEHIND INTERRACIAL PORNOGRAPHY
JEAN-BATAVE POQUELICHE MARCH 9, 2017
https://www.returnofkings.com/115977/th ... ornography
To find out if a mating behavior is wrong or not, just use the sister test. Would you want your sister riding the carousel? Would you want her being subjected to what you do to bang American women? Or would you want her playing hard to get in order to find a good man who wants to take care of her forever? A society is healthy if the way you want your sister treated is the normal and prevalent behavior. This is the case in Scandinavia, Poland, and the Baltics, but we don’t have that in America, a place where women openly despise and mock nice guys. The irony is that my sister knows I treat American girls like disposable razors while at the same time understanding that I must do so in order to get laid, as if I have no other choice.
The broken American system has given rise to sexual jackals like myself who take advantage of the current environment, but understand that a broken culture is not needed to have an exciting sex life. My time in Poland was sexually just as fun, only less porn-like. My mood was more balanced, my interactions with women were more pleasant, and my overall stress level was low. It now seems almost perverse to me that I had to act hard and hyper-masculine to f**k girls, that I had to be a caricature of an action movie character instead of simply being positive, easy-going, and engaging. But that’s the American culture we have today. If you live in the United States, learn to be ridiculously alpha or move somewhere else.
I agree with some of what Roosh said, and have made similar remarks saying we shouldn't encourage treatment of women you wouldn't want another man using on your sister or your daughter, but the only difference is I don't agree with his assumption you can't come off as adequately masculine or even dominant/alpha without having to treat women like !@#$, or to have to be action-movie level alpha. That might be true in a few sub cultures in major cities, but it really isn't true across the whole jewnited states at all. How things are varies really a lot by specific area, since there is no real national culture, even though I agree it's getting worse and worse.
Even moreso now that globohomo has spread like the plague, and I see pretty good looking women with less-than-alpha men all the time, though pretty sure I always have noticed that...
But seeing women choose "betas" even in other locations isn't the same thing as getting deeper down to what preferences the women would really had if they actually had a wider range of choices in men. A lot of the ones saying "good enough" to some Bill Pullman or Tom Hanks looking guy or something would probably much rather have got a Pierce Brosnan type if one was actually available (but I picked examples of all guys who don't act ultra-macho/alpha or have to treat women badly).
That's the reason why a lot of times location changes to where the norm amongst men acting more passive or unassertive can get slightly more assertive and masculine guys laid easy (e.g. white guys who can still be gentleman and would even be preferred for that in Asia, or more masculine white and black guys in wussified Europe).