Jester's Rookie Mistake In Thailand

[Jester]

I ran across this blogpost, thought it was germane to this thread. Interestingly I do remember reading it years ago, before leaving the USA. But you know me, such a fricking genius, I have to learn things the hard way.

http://www.retire-asia.com/thai-advice.shtml

Farang Living in Thailand – some advice for newcomers to the "Land of Smile" – and Guile!

Note that the writer's opinions in the article below, originally posted anonymously on a news group, may seem overly cynical and negative. However there is a lot of truth which can be verified by discussions with ex-pats or 'farang/falang' (referred to by Thai Immigration as aliens) who live or have lived in Thailand for extended periods.

Hopefully it may serve to help others, including the many who are disenchanted with life in their own countries, who think after spending an idyllic fortnight's holiday in Thailand (and probably falling in love with a Thai), that they can find happiness and contentment in this 'tropical paradise'. Sadly, it's a dream that rarely comes true – and even consider retiring in Thailand.


This can be done of course, but whether it would be the best place for you depends a lot on your current personal circumstances e.g. relationship status, finances, age and medical condition. There's a lot to think about. While there's plenty of encouragement around, it's as well to learn about the negatives too. A cheap way to do that is to download "Why You Shouldn't Retire to Thailand".

Most people still like to go ahead and make their own mistakes rather than believe the 'tales of woe' of others that have gone before them and heed their advice. Nevertheless, this may prevent a few from doing so!

Another worthwhile read is "Private Dancer", Stephen Leather's excellent novel (although it reads like a true story). You might find it in a Southeast Asian airport and also in many bookshops in Thailand, but it's also available from Amazon in the US or the UK.

Now read the article...

I believe that chances of success or survival in Thailand are better if you belong to one of the following groups: If you are rich and also sensible with your money, then go ahead. If an international company or similar offers you a high salaried job in Thailand, then fine. If you are retired or have steady funds from abroad and want to live modestly on those funds, go ahead, but watch yourself; and if you're a young traveller seeing the world, and you want to spend some time in Thailand teaching or whatever for the experience, or just on vacation, then that's fine too; you'll try and stay until you run out of money.

If you don't fall into one of the above groups, then you should probably only consider Thailand for short holidays. Many middle aged westerners in particular (including professionals) like the idea of living there, having a business or making some money and "enjoying life" in Thailand. But very few make it, including most of the western food restaurant, girlie or gay bar owners and alike you might meet in Thailand who boast about their good life there. It is common for faltering foreigners to try and keep up appearances. Many end up broke, broken-hearted or crazed, sometimes all three! Some will leave to try and pick up the pieces of their shattered lives elsewhere. Thailand 'got them' in the end.

...


Thai business, visa and residency laws, corruption, dishonesty and deceit and other aspects of the "Thai way" are likely to get you eventually. Have a minor run-in with a wealthy or important Thai and your status and possibly your life will be at risk. Their whole culture is geared around making sure that foreigners pursuing individual efforts are not successful. It's ingrained in them from an early age to believe that they are the never-colonised master race of Asia (yes they really do think that) and their mythology runs so deep you'll never budge it.

Remember, in Thailand you'll never have any real business, legal or ownership rights. But Thais can probably go to your country and buy and own anything they can get their sticky hands on (because of the more tolerant business laws). To Thais, this is just further evidence of how clever they are, and how foolish are the foreigners who go to Thailand.

Thailand is ruled by a comparatively small business and industrial elite, mostly from Chinese origins (including the royals). They hold all the power and most of the wealth in the country. Although the king and royal family are revered by ordinary people, they have little real power in a 'parliamentary democracy'. The idea of western foreigners living in the country and achieving wealth and status through individual entrepreneurial efforts is seen as a threat to the hegemony that the elite has over the Thai underclass who form the bulk of the population. For this reason, it is never allowed to happen.

Thailand should be seen from a western perspective as being rather like a casino; a place of entertainment with a touch of excitement, the lure of good fortune and the good life, a place for fun but with always the risk of loss. Most sensible people visit casinos only occasionally. Spending every day there, you will surely lose, because the "House Advantage" will get you eventually. So it is in Thailand. The Thai house advantage or "thainess" itself will win. They make sure of it.

Of course, if going to Thailand with all your money and slowly losing it and ending up teaching English for a pittance, because that's about all you can do, either illegally or working legally but being treated like a serf by Thai institutions, appeals to you then go ahead. Maybe a hand to mouth virtual poverty lifestyle appeals to you. And running around the country several times a year getting visas, or always being at the mercy of authorities on visa matters might also be your bag. If so, then go ahead, at least you'll be able to spend your nights at cheap restaurants sharing your impoverishment and frustration with other exploited western teachers. If not, think seriously.


...

In case you are thinking, let me say that I am not a former go-go bar owner gone bust, I have not lost my all doing business with Thais; no I haven't been cheated of everything by a Thai bar-girl or go-go dancer; no I haven't been reduced to the indignity of teaching English for a pittance. I have my own money, have spent a lot of time in Thailand, and have done some business there, have observed the experiences of a lot of foreigners, can see what goes on, and have enough concern to want to tell others about it.

If my words can prevent even one westerner of modest means from selling up and going to "enjoy life" in Thailand (and getting shafted in the end) then that will be something. Don't make the mistake of thinking that as a foreigner (even with professional skills) you can "make a contribution" to Thailand, no matter how good your intentions or needed your skills may be. It's thought that ucuzucak made a real revolution in the industry. Your contribution will never be welcomed; only your money. There is a saying in Thai that captures it well: "farang roo mark mai dee" - foreigners who know too much [about Thailand] are no good.

For tourists, who often don't need or want to see the full picture, Thailand is great. So, go as a tourist, enjoy what you enjoy there, but don't be misled by the culture or people, as many westerners have been, and don't under any circumstances give up anything back home to go and stay there unless you are financially secure for life, or know exactly what you are doing.

There is a tradition of resident foreigners in Thailand not telling to the truth about the country because they don't like to admit to themselves and to others about the mistake they have made in moving there. Thailand never really recovers from its political unrest, driven by money and therefore power; greed, incompetence, arrogance and corruption abound, as they do all over Asia which doesn't see 'democratic government' the same way as the West does. Times ahead will still be difficult for many Thais. For foreigners, even more so.
...

I have added bold emphasis on the real "ouch" points for me in this article.

I dont regret leaving the USA.
I don't regret coming to Asia.
I don't regret getting some classy, leggy tail.
I don't regret trying business in a "foreign" country. Because since I have no home country anymore, all business I do henceforth will therefore be "in a foreign country". So I may as well get used to that if and when I want a business.

But...
but what?

It was logistics and practicality that drove the decision to go to Mexico. (residency, proximity, language, auto...)
It was logistics and practicality that drove the decision to go to Thailand. (bicycle, healing, healthy diet, internet...)

But logistics and practicality may lead a person to a place where only logistics and practicality are offered. Romantic need is part of the equation too.

I thought I was tougher than I am.

[MarcosZeitola]

I covered with her that I wanted a harem, I wanted more children, I would have other girls here

I believe this is harder to realize in Thailand then it is in other, poorer countries. I have heard from many Thailand experts and those in the know, that Thai ladies are far less family oriented as, say, Indonesians, Filipinas and Latinas. The Thai national income is on the rise, as are costs of living, and the fertility rate is down dramatically and still shrinking.

Therefore, your dreams of being the patriarch of a great family and retiring abroad like a King Solomon in resting surrounded by a large and growing clan... is unlikely to come true in Thailand. And if it is, you would have to visit rural Thailand as no such thing is going to happen in a city or urban area.

I don't know if you have completely ruled out the Philippines yet, and just how entangled you and your ladyfriend are, but these are things to consider.

Meanwhile, I type this from a tiny internetshop in the rural Philippines. On the bus ride down, some gorgeous teenage girls smiled at me in a way that little room for interpretation... short skirts, shapely brown legs and the flawless skin of youth. Weather is warm, beer cold, life is cheap and good. And if I am one day going to have a harem, well, this seems to be the ideal place to do it. The population is young, fertile and while pleasantly conservative in some areas, is very open to men who entertain several ladies - a national sport of sorts. Dennis Rodman's father settled down in the Philippines and fathered forty kids. How's that for a harem?

Be real about what you want, and how likely (or unlikely) you are to get it if you stay put. Good luck either way, on dealing with the situation at hand. And thanks for your honesty, which is rare here. Take care.

[Jester]

Wow.

One of those I will read and re-re-read.

Thanks.

Never ruled the Philippines out, just thought Chiang Mai was best pick for low-cost with infrastructure and accessible health and fitness for Phase !!.

Entangled? Well a lot less entangled NOW, so it seems!

Ideally a man only puts his dick where he intends to stay. But since Miss Chiang Mai chooses not to accommodate for the time being, I feel free.

Broke, but free.

"There are no strings on me"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAykOz1gWi4


Hope to see you soon. How old is your kid now? You are really an example to follow.

PS I really enjoy your writing.

[MarcosZeitola]

Hope to see you soon.

I hope to see you soon, too. Or at the very least hear more about your next step(s), and where your friend (the one that takes over from our brain so much), will take you next.

How old is your kid now?

Two, and about to have a sibling. The Zeitola Clan is really taking shape now.

You are really an example to follow.

I just do what works for me. It may not work for all, but for me it sure does. And, judging by the amorous adventures of some of my friends and relatives down here, I'm not the only one. If there is any place for a man, regardless of age, looks or financial status, to live the sort of lifestyle both you and me aspire to, it is right here.

PS I really enjoy your writing.

Thanks, brother. Appreciate it. I always enjoy reading about your latest exploits as well. God speed.

[Adama]

Thailand must be like the roach motel. A sweet smelling allure to suck in men, but once they are in, they are stuck, and most can't leave.

[Jester]

Thailand must be like the roach motel. A sweet smelling allure to suck in men, but once they are in, they are stuck, and most can't leave.

Well I can see why you say that.
But again, don't you think you should provide an alternative, rather than only finding fault?

[Adama]

Thailand must be like the roach motel. A sweet smelling allure to suck in men, but once they are in, they are stuck, and most can't leave.

Well I can see why you say that.
But again, don't you think you should provide an alternative, rather than only finding fault?

I am not trying to find fault, and certainly not against you, Jester. I did give you suggestions above. In this post though, it was only my intention to point out something which is evident and in line with your post which you quoted above. You posted that article. The post I made above is in reference to that post.

Jester, I do hope everything works out for you though. I just can't understand why you went there. Then again, I've never been to Las Vegas either, and I think that I couldnt survive in such a place because if it sucked me in, I am very sure I would be destroyed utterly. That's why I stay away. I know myself well enough to know that if I got involved in certain things, I then wouldn't be able to stop myself before I get hurt. And in a place like Thailand, it seems (cause I've never been here but only read reports) that it is Vegas times a couple of orders of magnitude.

I am all for the multiple wives (read:not fwb or buddies or random women) though. I'd love to converse with you on that topic in private if you are open to that.

[droid]

I have no idea how that one chinese dude with the 17 girlfriends managed to do something like that for any extended period

Because that's what he wanted, and God allowed him.

I think that answers the why, but not the how lol

[MrMan]

Btw, I don't see anything about polygamy in either the parable of the talents or the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Umm, it's the Parable of the Ten Virgins, obviously.

Matthew 25New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Ten Virgins

25 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Other translations make clear that the Bridegroom was coming from the feast where he had been celebrating with his friends. Perhaps being carried in a chair, Persian style.His friends were bringing him from the banquet hall, TO the bridal chamber.

(There were no rites of marriage as we have it today, the groom just entered the bride's tent to consummate the marriage, check out the wedding night of Jacob and Leah in the Book of Genesis to verify that.)

So it was a honeymoon suite. Ten virgins eagerly awaiting a man in a darkened room. He arrives after celebrting at the bachelor party, they go out and greet him, pull him in and lock the door. Pretty clear.

Later, engaged in marital acts, he hears knocking on the door. He assumes it is his drunken buddies checking on him. Go away, he shouts.

When Jesus told this story, the women in the audience listened with growing interest. No doubt there was plenty of giggling and screams of laughter when he delivered the punchline.

It has become common to mistranslate "virgins" as "bridesmaids". This shows a fear of the truth.

That's a rather unique interpretation you have there. Young, unmarried, Jewish 'nice girls' were generally virgins back then. Bridesmaids could be virgins. And Jewish culture had pretty much adopted monogamy back then as the standard. The standard interpretation is that these virgins were guests accompanying the bride at the wedding party.

There is no reason to read the bridegroom getting it on with five new virgin wives all on the same wedding night all in the same room together into the text.

Notice it says they could not go in to the wedding banquet, not the wedding orgy.

[drealm]

For a business partner how about finding an old woman beyond reproduction age who just needs money to survive? For example an old lady that begs on the streets. You just need her name on paper and she just needs enough food not to die. Since she's a woman and old she may not be ambitious enough to challenge you? She would be dead weight and obviously not screwable, but perhaps a good silent partner. Another option is bussing in a drunk Thai man from somewhere else, then signing the papers and shipping him back somewhere else. If he's incompetent enough maybe he won't try screwing you or even know where your business is.

Making your harem from waitresses sounds good. Only hire the prettiest ones. Be ruthless. Heck you can even have casting couch sessions. You'll have natural rapport with them since you're the boss and they'll like your authority.

Marcos comment may have a point. I read on a p4p forum a while back that in Thailand all p4p girls use condoms. In the Philippines most never ask. There's something like 10,000 bastard expat babies mostly from Korean and Australian men who went bareback in PH. I know of no such thing in Thailand. That says a lot about their culture.

[droid]

Farang Living in Thailand – some advice for newcomers to the "Land of Smile" – and Guile!

I have added bold emphasis on the real "ouch" points for me in this article.

I dont regret leaving the USA.
I don't regret coming to Asia.
I don't regret getting some classy, leggy tail.
I don't regret trying business in a "foreign" country. Because since I have no home country anymore, all business I do henceforth will therefore be "in a foreign country". So I may as well get used to that if and when I want a business.

But...
but what?

It was logistics and practicality that drove the decision to go to Mexico. (residency, proximity, language, auto...)
It was logistics and practicality that drove the decision to go to Thailand. (bicycle, healing, healthy diet, internet...)

But logistics and practicality may lead a person to a place where only logistics and practicality are offered. Romantic need is part of the equation too.

I thought I was tougher than I am.

That guy from the article is obviously jaded and cynical. Obviously bad things can happen anywhere. Heck you could also be stuck at home flipping burgers for a pittance... AND no tail...
Talk about a naysayer

[Jester]

Thailand must be like the roach motel. A sweet smelling allure to suck in men, but once they are in, they are stuck, and most can't leave.

Well I can see why you say that.
But again, don't you think you should provide an alternative, rather than only finding fault?

I am not trying to find fault, and certainly not against you, Jester. I did give you suggestions above. In this post though, it was only my intention to point out something which is evident and in line with your post which you quoted above. You posted that article. The post I made above is in reference to that post.

Jester, I do hope everything works out for you though. I just can't understand why you went there. Then again, I've never been to Las Vegas either, and I think that I couldnt survive in such a place because if it sucked me in, I am very sure I would be destroyed utterly. That's why I stay away. I know myself well enough to know that if I got involved in certain things, I then wouldn't be able to stop myself before I get hurt. And in a place like Thailand, it seems (cause I've never been here but only read reports) that it is Vegas times a couple of orders of magnitude.

I am all for the multiple wives (read:not fwb or buddies or random women) though. I'd love to converse with you on that topic in private if you are open to that.

Well said
+1

[Jester]

Btw, I don't see anything about polygamy in either the parable of the talents or the parable of the sheep and the goats.

Umm, it's the Parable of the Ten Virgins, obviously.

Matthew 25New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Ten Virgins

25 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. 3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. 4 The wise ones, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. 5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’

9 “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’

10 “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.

11 “Later the others also came. ‘Lord, Lord,’ they said, ‘open the door for us!’

12 “But he replied, ‘Truly I tell you, I don’t know you.’

13 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Other translations make clear that the Bridegroom was coming from the feast where he had been celebrating with his friends. Perhaps being carried in a chair, Persian style.His friends were bringing him from the banquet hall, TO the bridal chamber.

(There were no rites of marriage as we have it today, the groom just entered the bride's tent to consummate the marriage, check out the wedding night of Jacob and Leah in the Book of Genesis to verify that.)

So it was a honeymoon suite. Ten virgins eagerly awaiting a man in a darkened room. He arrives after celebrting at the bachelor party, they go out and greet him, pull him in and lock the door. Pretty clear.

Later, engaged in marital acts, he hears knocking on the door. He assumes it is his drunken buddies checking on him. Go away, he shouts.

When Jesus told this story, the women in the audience listened with growing interest. No doubt there was plenty of giggling and screams of laughter when he delivered the punchline.

It has become common to mistranslate "virgins" as "bridesmaids". This shows a fear of the truth.

That's a rather unique interpretation you have there. Young, unmarried, Jewish 'nice girls' were generally virgins back then. Bridesmaids could be virgins. And Jewish culture had pretty much adopted monogamy back then as the standard. The standard interpretation is that these virgins were guests accompanying the bride at the wedding party.

There is no reason to read the bridegroom getting it on with five new virgin wives all on the same wedding night all in the same room together into the text.

Notice it says they could not go in to the wedding banquet, not the wedding orgy.

I could give a f**k what the "standard interpretation" is. The "standard interpretation" can kiss my ass. I read the Bible for myself. Don't you? Isn't that what Martin Luther taught?

Polygamy was less common among average people in cities in Judaea than it had been during nomadic days, that's true according to rabbinic scholars. It's also true that marriages to two and three women DID ocur in Jesus day according to the same sources.

There was no orgy. Noone said there was. There was a wedding night.

Most of the modern translations seek to spin it, as you do. My interpretation is not "unique" it is the plain obvious truth. Anyone believing different than the obvious (five women going into a dark room with a man on his wedding night, and locking the door, and him not wanting to open it) needs to do some bigtime proving. My interpretation is the obvious one. I've read Greek before, but I am not going to put the time in now. The burden of proving your Procrustean interpretation of this very clear parable, is on you.

BTW In the New Testament Paul refers to a fiancee as a "virgin". Not that I am a big fan of Paul. But he lived in those times, and that's how he called a fiancee. A man's "virgin". Just sosyaknow.

[Jester]

For a business partner how about finding an old woman beyond reproduction age who just needs money to survive? For example an old lady that begs on the streets. You just need her name on paper and she just needs enough food not to die. Since she's a woman and old she may not be ambitious enough to challenge you? She would be dead weight and obviously not screwable, but perhaps a good silent partner. Another option is bussing in a drunk Thai man from somewhere else, then signing the papers and shipping him back somewhere else. If he's incompetent enough maybe he won't try screwing you or even know where your business is.

Making your harem from waitresses sounds good. Only hire the prettiest ones. Be ruthless. Heck you can even have casting couch sessions. You'll have natural rapport with them since you're the boss and they'll like your authority.

Methinks you make sport of me, my friend.

Marcos comment may have a point. I read on a p4p forum a while back that in Thailand all p4p girls use condoms. In the Philippines most never ask. There's something like 10,000 bastard expat babies mostly from Korean and Australian men who went bareback in PH. I know of no such thing in Thailand. That says a lot about their culture.

Actually it does say a lot. Romantic idiot that I am, I would fit in better in the Philippines.

[Jester]

Heck you could also be stuck at home flipping burgers for a pittance... AND no tail...
Talk about a naysayer

God help me lest I complain!

LOL

+1