To all the step-fathers on this forum, why?

[Winston]

I will probably marry a Chinese woman and I would never bring her back to my country and I certainly wouldn't bring her back to my hometown - that would be just horrendous - now if my home town was San Francisco or Vancouver - different story all together but most of the world aren't like those places.

Why wouldn't you bring a Chinese woman to America? Chinese women don't change that much in America unless they're super materialistic to begin with, but even then, they were already rotten apples before they came. Usually Chinese retain their culture in America and refuse to change or become Americanized. They eat the same foods, hang out with similar people, retain the same Chinese habits, etc. My mom came to America in 1977 and she never became Americanized. Not even a little.

[Winston]

I could replace the mother with the daughter if the girl is pretty.

Perhaps you could elaborate on exactly how you think you could get away with that one. Seems even trickier than switching over to the sister.

That's a good question. Didn't Woody Allen get away with it by marrying his Asian step-daughter? He's not even good looking. He looks like a dufus. So if he can, why can't we all? lol. Just because he's rich and a Jew, he can get away with it? lol

Also, isn't that more common in white trash families? Like the ones you saw on Jerry Springer? lol. It was even featured in the Jerry Springer movie "Ringmaster". lol

If white trash families can do it, why can't we all? lol

[yick]

Why wouldn't you bring a Chinese woman to America?

Because I am British.

But I would bring a Chinese wife back to The States but I would make sure it was in the right place - it wouldn't be in the middle of Indiana.

[Cornfed]

Didn't Woody Allen get away with it by marrying his Asian step-daughter?

He got away with it in terms of not going to prison, but it probably wasn't such a great career move.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

-In cases where there are significant medical ailments in the father's family such as mental illness or disfiguring diseases.

I don't understand the third case. Can you elaborate on that?

I was referring to ailments like hemophilia, neurofibromatosis, psychosis, schizophrenia, alcoholism, or other significant things that are past down from generation to generation. Granted, people who have these ailments sometimes have wonderfully healthy children, but many people choose to forgo taking the chance so adoption is their choice.

[Winston]

This is a pretty spot-on analysis, Yick, as always. Now I do wonder, if ever you found your perfect one-in-a-million Chinese goddess and you'd put a ring on that shapely white finger, would you be interested in fatherhood? I mean it's a pretty sweet deal for the most part, but personally I think I might have a few concerns when it comes to raising a family in a totalitarian state in which freedom of speech and human rights aren't exactly a valued part of daily life. Not to claim the Philippines as some sort of paragon of press freedom and moral virtue, but lets just say I'm glad for the fact that all my children have dual nationality and could piss off to a European nation of their choice at any given moment.

Not exactly Marcos. Just because you can't criticize the Chinese government in China, doesn't mean China has no freedoms at all in general. That's painting with a broad brush and an overgeneralization. You forget China is very pro father. In most divorce cases, the man keeps everything in China, including the kids and the house. So don't jump to conclusions.

Someone from China told me that in China there is some free speech. For example, one can criticize the society, people, culture, etc, as long as one doesn't criticize the government. But in America, criticizing the culture and people is a taboo as we all know. No one dares to do it publicly. You are only allowed to criticize government policy or economics, but not American culture itself.

Also in China a professor or scientist is allowed to criticize Darwinian Evolution, whereas they cannot in America. To criticize Darwinism or talk about intelligent design in American academia is taboo and will result in career suicide. You can see Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" for proof and examples. The most famous creationist and intelligent design advocate today in America is Dr. Stephen Meyer. He said in one of his lectures that a Chinese professor told him something funny that made the audience laugh. He said "In China you can criticize Darwinism but you can't criticize the government. In America you can criticize the government but you can't criticize Darwinism." lol. So true. Of course he was referring to academics, professors and scientists primarily.

So you see, don't jump to conclusions Marcos and think that China has no freedom in any area just because it lacks freedom in some areas.

[Winston]

Why wouldn't you bring a Chinese woman to America?

Because I am British.

But I would bring a Chinese wife back to The States but I would make sure it was in the right place - it wouldn't be in the middle of Indiana.

Where in the US then would it be socially acceptable to bring back a foreign bride? Especially if there's an age difference? Can you list some good examples? Would California be one of them?

[Winston]

This is a pretty spot-on analysis, Yick, as always. Now I do wonder, if ever you found your perfect one-in-a-million Chinese goddess and you'd put a ring on that shapely white finger, would you be interested in fatherhood? I mean it's a pretty sweet deal for the most part, but personally I think I might have a few concerns when it comes to raising a family in a totalitarian state in which freedom of speech and human rights aren't exactly a valued part of daily life. Not to claim the Philippines as some sort of paragon of press freedom and moral virtue, but lets just say I'm glad for the fact that all my children have dual nationality and could piss off to a European nation of their choice at any given moment.

And it's true, marrying a woman from a certain country and background carries a heavy stigma with it. An older man not too long ago told me how he can "always immediately tell when a group of Filipinas enters a local bar", in the European country we're both from... "the low class vibes just seep in immediately" lol. Likewise, Chinese people are often seen as heartless materialistic folk, and during the current Corona scare often avoided like the plague as if eating a single lumpia gives on the Black Death already.

So yeah, it makes sense when marrying a foreign woman, to marry her in her own country preferably and staying their as long as possible. Or possibly relocating with one's foreign spouse to yet another foreign land. Prejudice just, follows you everywhere, in one way or another.

I very nearly did a few years ago - she was lovely - tall, slim, big breasts, nice looking, spoke great English, educated, she loved me a lot etc - but I went away to get my masters degree and she said she would wait - now, this is a girl who never said no to sex ever - she loved having sex on a daily basis so I suppose I was naive thinking I could leave for two years - one year to save the money and another year to do the MA - and she weren't going to meet someone else, in all fairness to her, she gave it a good go but ultimately, it was all for nothing - I had to get this masters degree so we could have a decent future together but it was a gamble and it failed.

Also, I have learned about Chinese people and the culture the hard way - in our relationship, I was at fault for a lot of our disagreements because I had no idea about the culture and it took its toll (because I met her in my first year in China so was a total noob regarding the cultural aspects of this country), there were a lot of times I was very unreasonable and was an arsehole - in retrospect - I wasn't the right man for her, she deserved someone more suitable - a better man than me for her - it takes a lot to say that because it is never easy to think you're not right for any woman you choose to be with you and it won't be you who'll be up to standard. I don't know what she is up to now, I am sure she is married, kids etc - I wish her well.

There are plenty of girls here, now more so I understand the culture but I am a one-woman man anyway and it is choosing the right one you have a connection with - yes, I would like to marry the right one and have kids and now I have the prospects to give our family unit a good life - I agree with life in China is not suitable - what I would probably do is take us to the country of my second passport - in Latin America, it has a wealthy, healthy and buoyant Chinese community - when people criticise your viewpoint about your kids - they don't understand Spanish colonial cultures which are - classist - if you have a European or a Chinese surname and are taller, whiter, look more Chinese etc - then you are middle to upper middle class on those aspects alone (alongside the opportunities that go along with it) - if I had half-Chinese kids and took them to this country then they would thrive better than in the UK despite the fact that the country I would be taking them to IS a third world country. In the UK, there are plenty of white, low class cholos - my kids would be no different to them except for being half Chinese and whatever else - in Latin America - it isn't the same, by my surname and hopefully they gain some of mine and my wifes good physical traits - they'll be fine - especially if I have boys - they'll definitely make something of themselves.

Also, my wife would have instant right of abode there and would be eligible for a passport in two to three years - it's not like an EU passport but it isn't bad either - free access to the Schengen Zone which Chinese people don't have at the moment (and still won't if their citizens do stupid shit like that woman entering France with contravirus and then bragging on social media about it - they're their own worst enemies ) so - I have a good plan if that does come off, I would live in a city that has Chinese schools, that has a vibrant and big Chinese culture - I can make good money there.

When you talk about living in the Philippines, Marcos - I big time get it why you would bring your kids up there, because that would be the same if you moved your family to anywhere in Latin America, they would get the same benefits as they are doing now and that's what I would do with me and mine - as long as you get them the citizenship of your own country (my kids would get both my citizenships automatically) and hopefully Chinese citizenship then they're good to go for life - they'll have more than most.

A few years ago? Shouldn't you have been wiser than to do that? Why would you leave a gem or a sexy Chinese lady that actually likes sex (which I think is a rarity since many of them are prudes) just to get a Masters degree so you can make more money? I can't imagine a more stupid thing than to do that. No offense. But it seems totally dumb and nonsensical. There's no way I would risk losing a woman I really wanted just to get a masters degree so I can earn more money. That makes no sense. Money cannot replace a woman who is a keeper. There's no comparison. Two years is too long. I would have at least married her first.

I think the going away for an MA must have just been an excuse. Deep down you probably felt the relationship wasn't right for some reason. And you needed a polite way to get away and hope it would fizzle out, rather than have to break up. That would make more sense.

I too have been accused of violating Chinese manners and customs and nuances. But each time I do, what's annoying is that they refuse to explain what exactly I did wrong. They just tell me I should have known better and that if I don't know what I did wrong, then it's hopeless to explain and leave it at that. Chinese women are notorious for that, telling you you did something wrong but not elaborating on exactly what so you can avoid the mistake next time. Instead, they expect you to know by yourself. It's very annoying and illogical when they do that. Bad communication too. They aren't articulate or specific. That's sort of the Asian way which is why I dislike Asian cultures and manners. They don't get specific or articulate or logical. They just expect you to know and read their mind, and they forget I'm not part of their hive mind. And they refuse to explain it too so I can learn from it and not repeat the same mistake next time. It's kind of stupid. But Chinese women are notorious for doing the guilt trip on you and telling you "you know what you did wrong, I don't need to explain it" when you actually really do not know. So stupid part of Chinese culture.

The thing is Yick, as a foreigner you should not be expected to know anything about Chinese culture or mannerisms or etiquette or the "saving face" thing, whatever it means. But as an Asian they expect you to know. So I don't get why they would hold you accountable to it? Usually they do not hold white people accountable to understanding Chinese ways, such as that "saving face" crap, which I never got. In my book as long as you are honest, true to your word, loyal, not a hypocrite, keep your promises, and don't do bad things, then "saving face" shouldn't matter. They never define what that means anyway, nor do they explain how it works in logical detail. It's just something you're "supposed to know" without explanation, as if you are supposed to be plugged into their hive mind or something. lol. Really weird.

Furthermore, I don't get why a lot of Chinese businesses feel it's ok to lie and cheat people and make false advertising claims about their products, but it's not ok to violate Chinese manners and customs and to "lose face"? WTF? That is odd and seems hypocritical.

Nor will I understand why Chinese Taoism says to be balanced and in harmony and avoid all extremes, yet Chinese people believe in extremes when it comes to working and making money and being greedy, etc? Lol. It's as if Chinese do not even follow Chinese philosophy. So weird.

[MrMan]

A few years ago? Shouldn't you have been wiser than to do that? Why would you leave a gem or a sexy Chinese lady that actually likes sex (which I think is a rarity since many of them are prudes) just to get a Masters degree so you can make more money? I can't imagine a more stupid thing than to do that. No offense. But it seems totally dumb and nonsensical. There's no way I would risk losing a woman I really wanted just to get a masters degree so I can earn more money. That makes no sense. Money cannot replace a woman who is a keeper. There's no comparison. Two years is too long. I would have at least married her first.

Were you the one who said he liked to have sex once a month, or twice a month or something like that? If that's the case, wouldn't you want to reject a woman who really liked sex? She might wear you out if she wanted it night after night.

Anyway, it sounds like he dodged a bullet if she was sleeping around while he was away at graduate school.

I think the going away for an MA must have just been an excuse. Deep down you probably felt the relationship wasn't right for some reason. And you needed a polite way to get away and hope it would fizzle out, rather than have to break up. That would make more sense.

But that sounds likely, too.

[MarcosZeitola]

Not exactly Marcos. Just because you can't criticize the Chinese government in China, doesn't mean China has no freedoms at all in general. That's painting with a broad brush and an overgeneralization. You forget China is very pro father. In most divorce cases, the man keeps everything in China, including the kids and the house. So don't jump to conclusions.

Someone from China told me that in China there is some free speech. For example, one can criticize the society, people, culture, etc, as long as one doesn't criticize the government. But in America, criticizing the culture and people is a taboo as we all know. No one dares to do it publicly. You are only allowed to criticize government policy or economics, but not American culture itself.

Also in China a professor or scientist is allowed to criticize Darwinian Evolution, whereas they cannot in America. To criticize Darwinism or talk about intelligent design in American academia is taboo and will result in career suicide. You can see Ben Stein's documentary "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" for proof and examples. The most famous creationist and intelligent design advocate today in America is Dr. Stephen Meyer. He said in one of his lectures that a Chinese professor told him something funny that made the audience laugh. He said "In China you can criticize Darwinism but you can't criticize the government. In America you can criticize the government but you can't criticize Darwinism." lol. So true. Of course he was referring to academics, professors and scientists primarily.

So you see, don't jump to conclusions Marcos and think that China has no freedom in any area just because it lacks freedom in some areas.

I get what you're trying to say, Winston, and perhaps China is more open to pseudo-science and different beliefs as you claim, which is fine with me but not a major reason for considering a nation "free and open". I love talking shit about politics, about the system, the 'powers that be' in any nation I would reside. I find that I am free to do so in most of the world, but in China I would be limited and I would resent that. I would also not like my children to lack the same basic freedom to speak their mind.

If I say Duterte is a bit a dick, and I question some of his policies openly, nobody really bats an eye in the Philippines. There may be debate, sure, maybe even fierce debate. But at the end of the day, there are no consequences for me for speaking my mind. I would not have my social media presence cut down, my internet taken away, even my freedom put on the line... now as much as I love Chinese food and certain Chinese people, it's not a trade off that's worth it for me, in the long run.

As a single man I would love to live in a country where I could bang around, earn a lot of money and eat great food, for sure, but the moment it was more than just 'me, myself and I' I just couldn't do it anymore. I want to raise brave and freethinking individuals, not scared little robots pissing their pants at the thought of offending Big Daddy Xi, after all.

[MarcosZeitola]

For once I agree with you Marcos. I can't imagine myself loving another man's child and taking responsibility for it and wasting my time and energy on it. And pretend to be its father and love it, when I really don't. That would be living a lie. And it would feel shameful too.

However, there are some exceptions. For example. if this child was a gorgeous blonde girl who looked like a little angel, then I may make an exception, simply because I've always dreamed of having a beautiful blonde girl in my family, either as a partner, sister or even daughter.

I'm sure many of you guys would agree that if the child was a very adorable girl with a heart of gold and very bright and cute, that you may make an exception. But if it's just an ordinary child, then nah.

I hope you guys don't flame me for saying that. It's only natural right? I'm not a pedofile of course, but anyone who sees an adorable girl, especially a white one, will feel like they wanna love and take care of her and that their protective instincts will come out for her. Even movies and TV shows show this.

Why make an exception for the 'cute and adorable blond girl'? Why doesn't the equally lovely male child get a chance? If anything, he needs the support more because really, how much more help does an attractive blond female need in today's world? She already won the lottery, man.

It's lowkey kinda creepy how everything would be different somehow if the child was 'blond, cute and a girl', like what the hell man? Either way, you would be raising another man's offspring and putting your resources into it so that some handsome blond man's genetic code is passed on at the expense of your own Wu DNA, with you paying for the bill. Doesn't seem like a fair trade in any scenario, regardless of the child's perceived 'cuteness' in your eyes.

[Winston]

For once I agree with you Marcos. I can't imagine myself loving another man's child and taking responsibility for it and wasting my time and energy on it. And pretend to be its father and love it, when I really don't. That would be living a lie. And it would feel shameful too.

However, there are some exceptions. For example. if this child was a gorgeous blonde girl who looked like a little angel, then I may make an exception, simply because I've always dreamed of having a beautiful blonde girl in my family, either as a partner, sister or even daughter.

I'm sure many of you guys would agree that if the child was a very adorable girl with a heart of gold and very bright and cute, that you may make an exception. But if it's just an ordinary child, then nah.

I hope you guys don't flame me for saying that. It's only natural right? I'm not a pedofile of course, but anyone who sees an adorable girl, especially a white one, will feel like they wanna love and take care of her and that their protective instincts will come out for her. Even movies and TV shows show this.

Why make an exception for the 'cute and adorable blond girl'? Why doesn't the equally lovely male child get a chance? If anything, he needs the support more because really, how much more help does an attractive blond female need in today's world? She already won the lottery, man.

It's lowkey kinda creepy how everything would be different somehow if the child was 'blond, cute and a girl', like what the hell man? Either way, you would be raising another man's offspring and putting your resources into it so that some handsome blond man's genetic code is passed on at the expense of your own Wu DNA, with you paying for the bill. Doesn't seem like a fair trade in any scenario, regardless of the child's perceived 'cuteness' in your eyes.

It's not rocket science Marcos. It's perfectly understandable. Because:

1) Girls are cuter than boys.
2) Everyone loves something or someone that is cute, adorable and good looking.

This is universal in human nature. No one has trouble understanding it. Come on man. Everyone knows it's much easier to love someone or something that is attractive than something that is not. Also little girls just tend to bring out the protective nature in men. All men feels it. It's innate in our DNA and soul too. There's nothing creepy about it. It's perfectly understandable.

Btw I've talked to other men who say they don't want children. And they told me that they too, feel that if they had to have a child, they would prefer it to be an adorable little girl than a boy. The cuteness of a little girl is just much more tolerable I guess. Plus it brings out our male protective instinct. So other men feel this way too. This isn't something that can be explained in words. It's just something innate in us males. If you were a real red-blooded man Marcos, maybe you'd understand.

[yick]

A few years ago? Shouldn't you have been wiser than to do that? Why would you leave a gem or a sexy Chinese lady that actually likes sex (which I think is a rarity since many of them are prudes) just to get a Masters degree so you can make more money?

Well, I didn't know I was going to meet the woman I was going to marry as soon as I hit China, how did I know what was going to transpire? You are making out that hindsight is a common concept within in us all. In fairness to your question though, the reason I needed more quals/a better job was because her family forbade her to see me - they made her break up with me but after about three days she disobeyed them and kept on seeing me - don't think there were any easy choices here, there weren't.

As for her liking sex, I was her first, she lost her virginity to me and I made sure she was satisfied, I am sure if she would have gone with some little Chinese blurt who she would have met at university - like a lot of them do - she would have got the 2 minute drillhammer - he would have probably put it in her bellybutton - I am not bloody surprised they're not interested in sex when most of them are going with the most clueless youth on the planet when it comes to lovemaking. Without going into it all - when she came - she would want to do it again and again - so she never said no because it was pleasant for her - if the whole of Chinese womanhood went with me their first time, they would like sex a lot more than they do now, trust me

I can't imagine a more stupid thing than to do that. No offense.

No offence taken because you haven't clue what happened so I am going to tell you what happened so you are more in the picture.

But it seems totally dumb and nonsensical. There's no way I would risk losing a woman I really wanted just to get a masters degree so I can earn more money. That makes no sense. Money cannot replace a woman who is a keeper. There's no comparison. Two years is too long. I would have at least married her first.

She was only going to marry me AFTER I got her families approval - she spent the time we were together getting piecemeal approval off various aunties, cousins etc - she would come and see me all excited when she told me about Auntie xyz approves of us being together - if it was up to me, I would have married her on a beach in Thailand (which is my dream wedding venue anyway...) oh I forgot, her father had her hukou so getting a passport would have been difficult if not impossible.

I think the going away for an MA must have just been an excuse. Deep down you probably felt the relationship wasn't right for some reason. And you needed a polite way to get away and hope it would fizzle out, rather than have to break up. That would make more sense.

Yes and no - the whole affair was taking its toll on her, being with me was hard for her and now if a Chinese girl who I know likes me refuses me - I know why because they go through this, they were going to send her to the countryside, her auntie beat her up during the new years party, her parents wouldn't speak to her for two years blahblahblah... she will look back on that as a terrible time in her life - you know what these young Chinese girls think of their family and to go against them like that?

I too have been accused of violating Chinese manners and customs and nuances. But each time I do, what's annoying is that they refuse to explain what exactly I did wrong. They just tell me I should have known better and that if I don't know what I did wrong, then it's hopeless to explain and leave it at that. Chinese women are notorious for that, telling you you did something wrong but not elaborating on exactly what so you can avoid the mistake next time. Instead, they expect you to know by yourself. It's very annoying and illogical when they do that. Bad communication too. They aren't articulate or specific. That's sort of the Asian way which is why I dislike Asian cultures and manners. They don't get specific or articulate or logical. They just expect you to know and read their mind, and they forget I'm not part of their hive mind. And they refuse to explain it too so I can learn from it and not repeat the same mistake next time. It's kind of stupid. But Chinese women are notorious for doing the guilt trip on you and telling you "you know what you did wrong, I don't need to explain it" when you actually really do not know. So stupid part of Chinese culture.

The thing is Yick, as a foreigner you should not be expected to know anything about Chinese culture or mannerisms or etiquette or the "saving face" thing, whatever it means. But as an Asian they expect you to know. So I don't get why they would hold you accountable to it? Usually they do not hold white people accountable to understanding Chinese ways, such as that "saving face" crap, which I never got. In my book as long as you are honest, true to your word, loyal, not a hypocrite, keep your promises, and don't do bad things, then "saving face" shouldn't matter. They never define what that means anyway, nor do they explain how it works in logical detail. It's just something you're "supposed to know" without explanation, as if you are supposed to be plugged into their hive mind or something. lol. Really weird.

Yeah, but she would tell me what was going on and why, she wouldn't not tell me - she would say 'this is whats happening and this is why and this might be a way forward' the plan behind my MA was there was an excellent job on offer in a Tier one city where we could have gone, had a nice life and she could then say 'Hey - look at us, we're doing well' she was a qualified teacher and she spoke great English and she is now a successful English teacher (as far as I know, last time I spoke to her she was...) it wasn't - I'll do the MA to get away from her - I loved her, this was a plan that could have worked and it needed a gamble, it needed us to try a plan F or a plan G - I thought she might have waited but she didn't - it wasn't her fault - I was asking for a lot in hindsight - what descions wouldn't you have made if you had hindsight? Easy, isn't it?

[MarcosZeitola]

It's not rocket science Marcos. It's perfectly understandable. Because:

1) Girls are cuter than boys.
2) Everyone loves something or someone that is cute, adorable and good looking.

This is universal in human nature. No one has trouble understanding it. Come on man. Everyone knows it's much easier to love someone or something that is attractive than something that is not. Also little girls just tend to bring out the protective nature in men. All men feels it. It's innate in our DNA and soul too. There's nothing creepy about it. It's perfectly understandable.

Btw I've talked to other men who say they don't want children. And they told me that they too, feel that if they had to have a child, they would prefer it to be an adorable little girl than a boy. The cuteness of a little girl is just much more tolerable I guess. Plus it brings out our male protective instinct. So other men feel this way too. This isn't something that can be explained in words. It's just something innate in us males. If you were a real red-blooded man Marcos, maybe you'd understand.

I dunno man I think you are just mistifying blond white women and girls. A lot of Asian and black men do so, a blond woman or girl is the highest thing in their mind for some reason. The grass is always greener and all that jazz... maybe I perceive it differently because as a white man from a large family, I have no shortage of blond sisters and cousins, and I fail to see it as something super special or extra endearing. Hell even my own daughters who are Mestiza, are very cute and adorable and objectively more beautiful than the average little girl.

But still... you have an unrealistic expectation of what being a father to 'cute and adorable little girls' is. My daughters are legitimate head-turners, the sort of children that many people, men and women alike, have told me are "little rays of sunshine that make their day brighter". Which is funny because to me, I often just find them a headache lol. You see the cute moments, the sweet moments, people's nice reactions but what about those times when you're at home and they fight their sister over a dress, get jealous, make a drama over nothing? You don't take those moments into account. You will still have dramas, and stress, and other kid-related issues that any other kid would give you, even if your child is a beautiful little girl. The only difference is, the girl giving you that joy, and that stress, would not be yours.

So essentially you would be getting tricked into raising another man's offspring. And that other man, who no longer has to put his resources into raising the child, benefits from your weak and generous heart. Just because the kid is cute and a girl doesn't change the subject dramatically, that's honestly preposterous.

[yick]

Why make an exception for the 'cute and adorable blond girl'?

A) To get back at the cheerleaders who ignored him at high school - poor kid will be on the naughty step more times than God knows what

B) She'll be 18 - see he mentioned Woody Allen