Who Can Transmit Corona

[MrMan]

I go to church with a respiratory therapist. He gets briefings from experts on contagious diseases from a center at a university with a medical school. He is also dealing with corona virus patients.

He put out a Facebook message about the most recent updates he has gotten. He used to think the corona virus might have been spread by nonsymptomatic carriers. But they think it needs a protein shell to protect it, which means that it would pretty much only be transmitted if the carrier has cold or flu-like symptoms. So they consider it extremely unlikely that those who do not have these symptoms will transmit it if they shake hands.

So the advice is if you have cold or flu-like symptoms, stay home. Do not go to school or work. Some of the schools and universities have shut down recently. They could probably manage the problem by being strict about sending kids home who cough. If what I posted above becomes the medical consensus, that may be what we see schools do.

--Revised: This video presents evidence that the disease might hang around in the air for three hours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNQUHc8 ... e=youtu.be

After I posted this, I read on the CDC site the suggestion that it may be spread by asymptomatic carriers.

[Yohan]

The question which nobody still could answer clearly is what happens if you got the corona virus after your recovery.

Can you be re-infected again? Or will your immune system create any anti-bodies, so you can walk among the infected people and never become infected again? At least for a while? And for long?

There are indeed reports about a few people, who recovered, were tested negative, and only a few weeks later they felt not healthy and were again tested positive with the corona-virus again.

Another question I found no clear answer is about the costs of testing. How much is it if you decide to go for corona virus testing even if medical doctors think it is not necessary? You want to know and are willing to pay out of your own wallet as insurance will not pay for it?

[MrMan]

The question which nobody still could answer clearly is what happens if you got the corona virus after your recovery.

Can you be re-infected again? Or will your immune system create any anti-bodies, so you can walk among the infected people and never become infected again? At least for a while? And for long?

There are indeed reports about a few people, who recovered, were tested negative, and only a few weeks later they felt not healthy and were again tested positive with the corona-virus again.

I am not sure the time frame for it, but one English man who had it who posted a video said there were patients who had what seemed like a cold, felt like the got better, then got something like the flu, felt like they got better, then got pneumonia. It may be just how the virus works rather than the patient being reinfected.

That reminds me of the video from my respiratory therapist friend who is treating patients with the virus. He one barely seemed sick at all and another was on life support.

[xiongmao]

In Uni I got a virus 3 times in 2 months. I was really ill the last time. I don't know if it was the same virus but the doctor said a recurring virus was going around.

People without symptoms can share it - 11 people in Thailand got it from sharing a glass in Soi Thonglor. 4 people who didn't share the glass didn't get it, all 11 that shared a glass did.

The UK has made a huge error in not closing schools immediately. In my sister's class there are 30 x 30 = 900 daily interactions and by the weekend there is a 100% probability that someone in her school will come in contact with a carrier.

[MatureDJ]

So the advice is if you have cold or flu-like symptoms, stay home. Do not go to school or work.

This is a piece of advice that Winston, were he still a regular Joe with a full-time job, would most definitely follow.

[MrMan]

My friend said this was their take on the information as it stood then, but they could have other opinions later. I saw a document on the CDC site that suggested that it was possible to transmit it without being symptomatic.

It could be that there is a period right before the symptoms show up where the virus is transmittible, like in the case of the 11 people who drank out of the same glass.

I went out with English-teacher co-workers in Korea right after I got there. We went to a seafood restaurant, and at the end of the meal, the group ordered soup i one of those dark clay hot pot things-- dul sot, I think. I stuck my spoon in first and got a sip-- and it tasted like liquid fire. I wasn't used to the red pepper yet and so I said I was done. I also didn't want to partake after all those people had slurped their spoons, leaving spittle on them, plunging them back into the pot. The pot was boiling at first, so germs weren't an issue. But I didn't want their sanitized boiled spit either. They get food from the common food plates on the table with the chopsticks they put in their mouths. Sometimes it is possible to just touch the part you eat, but not always. That works better with a big piece of chicken than with spinach. They need to learn to use serving spoons, forks, and chopsticks and not put the slobbered-on chopsticks back in the common food plate.

No wonder corona spread so much in Asian countries.

[Yohan]

In Uni I got a virus 3 times in 2 months. I was really ill the last time. I don't know if it was the same virus but the doctor said a recurring virus was going around.

People without symptoms can share it ...

Maybe HouseMD can correct me, if I write here something which is wrong, I am not a medical doctor, and speak only out of my experience and what I hear from internet and other people.

There is now some information out on the internet regarding the Corona-Virus but not very conclusive. It says in general it is too early to prove if a person after surviving the corona-infection can be re-infected again or not. Usually a person who survives a virus infection might have antibodies in his blood, but not so clear for how long, maybe only for a few months or so. Depending on the virus, some antibodies are for life, others are not.

Yes, infected people without symptoms can infect other people, usually 5 days before symptoms coming up and 5 days after recovery in most cases.
Often only sharing the same room for typical virus infections might infect the entire family.

About typical virus infections, it is not disputed that the human body, after recovery of a measles or chickenpox infection will keep antibodies for life. It is very rare to be re-infected again and usually only mild and after many year.

Often this is the case too with rubella, but not always...
I never had any vaccination against rubella. It was considered to be normal to be infected as a child 60 years ago, but never got infected with it. Nobody cared really about that.
However later on I was infected 2 times with rubella as an adult, one time in Europe, 15 years later in Asia. The first one was really strong with fever and other discomfort, the second one was mild, but clearly rubella looking into a mirror, rash moving from head to my arms and it disappeared quickly within two days only.

A medical doctor told me, there might be a little bit a difference between a rubella-virus in Europe and in Asia and re-infection of rubella is rare, but not unknown.

-----

About the new corona-virus, time is too short for research, I think maybe in one or two years this virus-type will also be a part of the past, it will be under control and disappear with vaccination available and better sanitary conditions in some places.

[MrMan]

This video presents evidence that the disease might hang around in the air for three hours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNQUHc8 ... e=youtu.be

After I posted this, I read on the CDC site the suggestion that it may be spread by asymptomatic carriers.

[Yohan]

They need to learn to use serving spoons, forks, and chopsticks and not put the slobbered-on chopsticks back in the common food plate.
.....
No wonder corona spread so much in Asian countries.

Many countries in Asia are not clean enough when serving food.

Usually simple infections resulting in vomitting or diarrhea are not because of the food, but because of unclean plates, spoons, chopsticks and otherwise dirty environment around foodstalls and markets - Low-income people eating in markets from foodstalls are often throwing away uneaten food just under the table for the dogs and the rats. Such places are also full with mosquitos, flies and cockroaches.

Low income, often jobless, poor housing. Almost every Indian and Chinese market I have seen had poor water supply, terrible restrooms, canals full with garbage, no safe storage facilities like refrigators and glass cabinets for meat and fish...
I never eat anything in such places in Thailand, Cambodia, Philippines etc. Hot and humid climate are also a major factor for infections to move quickly from one to another person.

Not really surprised that something like this corona-virus happens. The only difference is however that this corona-virus is a new experience and really very aggressive. Most infections in such dirty places are bacterial infections, which can be stopped easily with various and cheap broad-spectrum antibiotic drugs.

[MrMan]

They need to learn to use serving spoons, forks, and chopsticks and not put the slobbered-on chopsticks back in the common food plate.
.....
No wonder corona spread so much in Asian countries.

Many countries in Asia are not clean enough when serving food.

Usually simple infections resulting in vomitting or diarrhea are not because of the food, but because of unclean plates, spoons, chopsticks and otherwise dirty environment around foodstalls and markets - Low-income people eating in markets from foodstalls are often throwing away uneaten food just under the table for the dogs and the rats. Such places are also full with mosquitos, flies and cockroaches.

Low income, often jobless, poor housing. Almost every Indian and Chinese market I have seen had poor water supply, terrible restrooms, canals full with garbage, no safe storage facilities like refrigators and glass cabinets for meat and fish...
I never eat anything in such places in Thailand, Cambodia, Philippines etc. Hot and humid climate are also a major factor for infections to move quickly from one to another person.

Not really surprised that something like this corona-virus happens. The only difference is however that this corona-virus is a new experience and really very aggressive. Most infections in such dirty places are bacterial infections, which can be stopped easily with various and cheap broad-spectrum antibiotic drugs.

I've seen a lot of those places in Indonesia. Some of them are set up with water. Some of the noodle carts might not be so bad if you bring your own bowl. Your stomach gets used to it after a while. I'd eat at some 'rumah makan' (food houses) in Indonesia, but I'd avoid raw vegetables that had been washed in tap water and seemed to be okay for germs after a while. I don't know how clean the little restaurants are in South Korean, but I think I ate noodles once at a food stall there. I think they are a lot cleaner than a lot of the places in Indonesia.

[Yohan]

I've seen a lot of those places in Indonesia. Some of them are set up with water. Some of the noodle carts might not be so bad if you bring your own bowl. Your stomach gets used to it after a while. I'd eat at some 'rumah makan' (food houses) in Indonesia, but I'd avoid raw vegetables that had been washed in tap water and seemed to be okay for germs after a while. I don't know how clean the little restaurants are in South Korean, but I think I ate noodles once at a food stall there. I think they are a lot cleaner than a lot of the places in Indonesia.

Street food stalls are always a bit of a risk - I avoid them. I prefer to look around for a restaurant which has a clean kitchen.
Nowadays in Taiwan, Korea and Japan problems about food poisoning in small restaurants or with street food stalls are not so often. Sometimes there is a report about salmonella or similar, but not so serious incidents. In general such business is also regulated in these countries, you cannot just sell whatever you want....

Equipment is also better compared to other Asian countries, for example using stainless cooking utensils, serving on paper plates and wooden chopsticks which are thrown away, food courts are renting out spaces with hot running water and refrigator, aircondition area for eating to be safe of rodents and mosquitos, regular cleaning of restrooms etc. Japan, Korea and Taiwan are fairly good with sanitary issues.

However many poor countries in Asia are really bad, very unsanitary condition... with high population and low income I do not see anything will change soon. Only what you can do as a visitor from abroad is to pay more and to eat in a clean restaurant. In my case, I have my own rooms in Pattaya, Thailand, I buy most food for myself in one of the large supermarkets and eat often in my own rooms. No need to eat outside. I never use street food stalls.

[MrMan]

I've eaten at all kinds of street food stalls, but I laid off on that as I got older. But it does make sense to be particular. In Jakarta, If a bakso (meatball) soup or noodle vendor has access to running water and the soup is served really, really hot, the risks do not seem that high. The rule of thumb is if the place is crowded it's probably okay. The food doesn't sit around spoiling, and if people were getting sick, they'd be unlikely to return.

One of the big brand names for Padang food opened up in a building I lived in, but if you did not eat there for lunch, the food was served cold by dinner time with hot rice. They didn't even have a microwave. The rice was hot out of a rice cooker for dinner. I think I ate there once for dinner. Some of the other branches served hot food. The office gave us lunch in a little box-- also served cold, or just barely warm by the time we got it. I'd go to the kitchen and put mine on my plate and heat it up. Most Indonesians ate it cold.

Indonesian food is good if served hot, but the people have a strange tolerance for eating cold or lukewarm food-dishes that should be served hot, in addition to the street vending issues. It's no wonder there are so many stomach problems there.