Get Vaccinated Or Be Barred From Commercial Airlines

[Contrarian Expatriate]

It's amazing that Cornfed, Winston, and FSchmidt think they can jeer me out of managing my own health care strategy. I don't know what has become of this forum, but it has become as mindless as I could possibly imagine. It is full of miserable people who hate that others refuse to be miserable with them.

I first noticed the wackiness a few years ago when I described my plans to handle cancer. Winston piped in with jeers that I should never undergo modern, cutting edge, oncological care. He said it was stupid to not do cheaper, alternative cancer treatments instead. There seems to be resentment here over having choices, options, and means, but it has grown and gotten out of control.

....others are religious bigots, claiming blood transfusions which saved countless lives, are a sin and to pray and die is better for your afterlife....

Great point because the three I mentioned above are indeed religious bigots (I prefer the term wackjobs) so you are into something there!

[Neo]

The only religious denomination I know of that refuses blood transfusions is the Jehovah's Witness cult.

1. It was started by Jewish Freemasonry.
2. It doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is divine or truly one with the Father.

Therefore JW is not Christianity but a false version.

[Yohan]

The only religious denomination I know of that refuses blood transfusions is the Jehovah's Witness cult.
1. It was started by Jewish Freemasonry.
2. It doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is divine or truly one with the Father.
Therefore JW is not Christianity but a false version.

Every Christian says something different about what he all reads from the Bible.
But as long as you refer to the Bible as your guideline in your life, you are a Christian - what else can you be?

But the good thing is with the Jehovahs that they are NOT against vaccination...

In the Philippines, the no.1 Christian country in Asia, there is the
Iglesia ni Cristo
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iglesia_ni_Cristo

and also El Shaddai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Shaddai

All Christians....and they are millions of them....

[Yohan]

Great point because the three I mentioned above are indeed religious bigots (I prefer the term wackjobs) so you are into something there!

They are more than three...

and there is no reasonable comment about vaccination from these religious bigots, despite this thread is about vaccine ...

So far even I found no explanation who is now a Christian and who is not (but I don't care),

They fight even against each other, who is the right Christian and who is the fake Christian....

I read in this forum somewhere (Adama maybe?)

Catholics are not Christians,
Jehovahs are not Christians
Mormons are not Christian
Anglican Church members are not Christians etc.

I do not remember any talk about Orthodox Church or about Baptists, Presbytarians, Lutherans, are they maybe Christians or not?

I gave some new examples, and for sure

El Shaddai followers are not Christians
Iglesia ni Cristo are not Christians

No idea really what is the Union Church, but they are also everywhere, likely also fake Christians....

etc. etc. etc.

But let us talk about vaccination in this thread... OK?

[Neo]

The only religious denomination I know of that refuses blood transfusions is the Jehovah's Witness cult.
1. It was started by Jewish Freemasonry.
2. It doesn't believe that Jesus Christ is divine or truly one with the Father.
Therefore JW is not Christianity but a false version.

Every Christian says something different about what he all reads from the Bible.
But as long as you refer to the Bible as your guideline in your life, you are a Christian - what else can you be?

But the good thing is with the Jehovahs that they are NOT against vaccination...

To be Christian, a person must believe in Jesus Christ. There are certain things that will negate a person's belief in Christ - the false belief that Jesus Christ is not divine is one such diversion. Jesus is not only the Messiah, He is also God and co-equal with the Father and the Holy Ghost. To deny His divinity is also to deny Him, rendering the whole thing void.

However, there are many diversions and it seems as if each false denomination of Christianity has them.

[MrMan]

There are people who think 'they' are intentionally (or unintentionally) putting something harmful in these vaccines we are taking, especially the COVD-19 vaccine. The current vaccine, from what I have read, was developed using the kidney cells of an aborted baby. I am not in a high risk age group, and if I got the disease there would be a 99%+ chance of survival based on the stats (from what I have heard and read. The info could have changed. It has a high death rate compared to a regular flu, which keeps a fraction of a percentage of its victims.

Some people test positive and are basically asymptomatic. I know two people who had it, one who was asymptomatic and another who had some minor congestion and felt like sleeping a lot. But the asymptomatic man's aunt was older and died from it. That's just anecdotal information. But there may be a lot of people who have had it who were asymptomatic who have immunity.

I hope we can get tested for antibodies to show immunity if we do not get a vaccine, and that those who had it do not need a vaccine. I do not think it worth it to expose myself to the virus to keep from having a vaccine, but I do not want to get one. Hopefully, if airlines accept this policy they will eventually change it when the virus is no longer an issue if it effects their sales.

I'd rather not have vaccines for low-risk diseases. I do not take flu vaccines. On the one had, there is immunity if you happen upon last year's flu bug, but weighed against having someone inject who knows what directly into your blood stream, plus the hassle of getting a shot, I'd rather not get it. If COVID-19 is five times more deadly than the flu...I still don't want the vaccine, or I'd prefer not to get it. If I have to get it to keep working and living a normal life, I would prayerfully consider it.

Taking Texas as an example from John's Hopkins map (NY is at the top, but probably weighted heavily toward the elderly.), 97% of cases recovered. But those are reported cases.

I read that Johns Hopkins had an economist report showing that deaths from heart disease uncharacteristically dropped during COVID-19, which statistically doesn't make sense. They may be attributing heart disease deaths to COVID. I wonder if they would have attributed flu deaths of heart disease patients to heart disease rather than the flu, but treat COVID deaths differently. Heart disease is said to be the number one cause of death in the USA.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

To be Christian, a person must believe in Jesus Christ. There are certain things that will negate a person's belief in Christ - the false belief that Jesus Christ is not divine is one such diversion. Jesus is not only the Messiah, He is also God and co-equal with the Father and the Holy Ghost. To deny His divinity is also to deny Him, rendering the whole thing void.

It is AMAZING that there are people who succeed in convincing adults to believe these lies. Such a shame.

[Yohan]

To be Christian, a person must believe in Jesus Christ. There are certain things that will negate a person's belief in Christ - the false belief that Jesus Christ is not divine is one such diversion. Jesus is not only the Messiah, He is also God and co-equal with the Father and the Holy Ghost. To deny His divinity is also to deny Him, rendering the whole thing void.

It is AMAZING that there are people who succeed in convincing adults to believe these lies. Such a shame.

The question still remains open who is now a Christian? Likely a Catholic, if I understand
correctly Neo's explanation above. However I remember Adama who strongly objected that.

However this thread is about vaccination, and for sure nothing is written in the Bible that followers from whatever cult should refuse it.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

To be Christian, a person must believe in Jesus Christ. There are certain things that will negate a person's belief in Christ - the false belief that Jesus Christ is not divine is one such diversion. Jesus is not only the Messiah, He is also God and co-equal with the Father and the Holy Ghost. To deny His divinity is also to deny Him, rendering the whole thing void.

It is AMAZING that there are people who succeed in convincing adults to believe these lies. Such a shame.

The question still remains open who is now a Christian? Likely a Catholic, if I understand
correctly Neo's explanation above. However I remember Adama who strongly objected that.

However this thread is about vaccination, and for sure nothing is written in the Bible that followers from whatever cult should refuse it.

But Christians often rationalize their actions with bizarre thoughts like, "I think Jesus would refuse the vaccine so I must refuse it too."

[fschmidt]

However this thread is about vaccination, and for sure nothing is written in the Bible that followers from whatever cult should refuse it.

This thread is not about vaccination in general, only about Covid vaccination. The Old Testament encourages critical thinking which would result in refusing this vaccine. However I strongly encourage you and the other morons here to take the vaccine in order to improve the human gene pool.

[Yohan]

This thread is not about vaccination in general, only about Covid vaccination. The Old Testament encourages critical thinking which would result in refusing this vaccine. However I strongly encourage you and the other morons here to take the vaccine in order to improve the human gene pool.

This thread is about possibly required vaccinations if you prepare for a trip abroad. Some countries require a certain vaccination, like yellow fever in some parts of Africa. Airlines do not allow you to board their airplanes to that destinations, as they will be fined and under obligation to transport that person back to their costs if a passenger arrives without that required vaccination.

This might be again the case with Covid-19 in near future. If you show up without proof of vaccination and are unable to accept testing and 15 days quarantine on arrival at your cost, the airline will not allow you to board their airplanes to that country.

Quantas and Cebu Pacific are already considering to handle passengers only if they prove covid-19 vaccination, and other airlines will follow, at least here in Asia.

Nobody is forcing you to accept covid-19 vaccination, up to you. It will anyway take many months more until millions of people willing to accept the covid-19 vaccine will be able to receive it. However expect restrictions for overseas trips.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

[Cornfed]

Nobody is forcing you to accept covid-19 vaccination, up to you.

A bit like when a mugger puts a gun to your head and demands your wallet - no-one is forcing you to hand over your wallet, up to you.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

This thread is not about vaccination in general, only about Covid vaccination. The Old Testament encourages critical thinking which would result in refusing this vaccine. However I strongly encourage you and the other morons here to take the vaccine in order to improve the human gene pool.

This thread is about possibly required vaccinations if you prepare for a trip abroad. Some countries require a certain vaccination, like yellow fever in some parts of Africa. Airlines do not allow you to board their airplanes to that destinations, as they will be fined and under obligation to transport that person back to their costs if a passenger arrives without that required vaccination.

This might be again the case with Covid-19 in near future. If you show up without proof of vaccination and are unable to accept testing and 15 days quarantine on arrival at your cost, the airline will not allow you to board their airplanes to that country.

Quantas and Cebu Pacific are already considering to handle passengers only if they prove covid-19 vaccination, and other airlines will follow, at least here in Asia.

Nobody is forcing you to accept covid-19 vaccination, up to you. It will anyway take many months more until millions of people willing to accept the covid-19 vaccine will be able to receive it. However expect restrictions for overseas trips.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

The morons who are anti-vaxxers are letting nature run its deadly course. I prefer to let nature deal with them rather than try to convince them.

[Yohan]

There are people who think 'they' are intentionally (or unintentionally) putting something harmful in these vaccines we are taking, especially the COVD-19 vaccine. The current vaccine, from what I have read, was developed using the kidney cells of an aborted baby. I am not in a high risk age group, and if I got the disease there would be a 99%+ chance of survival based on the stats (from what I have heard and read. The info could have changed. It has a high death rate compared to a regular flu, which keeps a fraction of a percentage of its victims.

Thanks for your very reasonable comment.
I can only talk about how we see the situation here in Japan.
Vaccine against covid-19 is still not available. Maybe in 3 months...

There are now at least 13 different companies into research of Covid-19 vaccine. They are using different materials for their research of course, before they are testing it with humans.

I think in a few months we will know more, research is still going on and done hastily under time pressure, there are many questions and no conclusive answers yet.

The death rate in Japan/South Korea is now as follows (in average around 1.7 to 1.8%)
patient - age
80+ 11.6%
70+ 6.3%
60+ 1.5%
50+ 0.4%
40+ 0.1%
This means 90% of all deaths are people 60+ of age.

Some people test positive and are basically asymptomatic. I know two people who had it, one who was asymptomatic and another who had some minor congestion and felt like sleeping a lot. But the asymptomatic man's aunt was older and died from it. That's just anecdotal information. But there may be a lot of people who have had it who were asymptomatic who have immunity.

I hope we can get tested for antibodies to show immunity if we do not get a vaccine, and that those who had it do not need a vaccine. I do not think it worth it to expose myself to the virus to keep from having a vaccine, but I do not want to get one. Hopefully, if airlines accept this policy they will eventually change it when the virus is no longer an issue if it effects their sales.

20 % of infected people have no or weak symptoms and are not aware that they are infected and but they are infecting others near to them.

If airlines on international routes will accept an antibody certificate/ or certificate free of corona-19 etc. is questionable, but for sure such a certificate is not cheap, in Japan designated private clinics will charge you yen 46.500,- (approx. USD 445,-) for such testing and for international documents.

Further on arrival the country of destination might send you straight into quarantine and additional testing for 15 days unable to leave the hotel room....at your cost - consider that additional travel expenses of thousands of dollars for a family of 4.

It's much easier to handle this issue with a vaccine of course and much much cheaper. This is merely an economic question.

I'd rather not have vaccines for low-risk diseases. I do not take flu vaccines. On the one had, there is immunity if you happen upon last year's flu bug, but weighed against having someone inject who knows what directly into your blood stream, plus the hassle of getting a shot...

The hassle of getting a covid-19 shot is surely less than to receive a certificate of antibody/or free of corona-19 in case of overseas travel.

The last count I have here is

United States 15,820,042 infected so far - and 296,698 deaths.
You think it is a low risk disease? Yes - or No....It's all relative, if you consider USA has more than 330 million people.

Anyway, nobody will force you into vaccination if you do not want it.

It will take months to produce and provide covid-19 vaccine for all people who are voluntarily lining up for a shot and for an additional shot a few weeks later, there will be waiting time even for people who show up by themselves.

[Yohan]

This thread is not about vaccination in general, only about Covid vaccination. The Old Testament encourages critical thinking which would result in refusing this vaccine. However I strongly encourage you and the other morons here to take the vaccine in order to improve the human gene pool.

This thread is about possibly required vaccinations if you prepare for a trip abroad. Some countries require a certain vaccination, like yellow fever in some parts of Africa. Airlines do not allow you to board their airplanes to that destinations, as they will be fined and under obligation to transport that person back to their costs if a passenger arrives without that required vaccination.

This might be again the case with Covid-19 in near future. If you show up without proof of vaccination and are unable to accept testing and 15 days quarantine on arrival at your cost, the airline will not allow you to board their airplanes to that country.

Quantas and Cebu Pacific are already considering to handle passengers only if they prove covid-19 vaccination, and other airlines will follow, at least here in Asia.

Nobody is forcing you to accept covid-19 vaccination, up to you. It will anyway take many months more until millions of people willing to accept the covid-19 vaccine will be able to receive it. However expect restrictions for overseas trips.

I don't know why this is so difficult to understand.

The morons who are anti-vaxxers are letting nature run its deadly course. I prefer to let nature deal with them rather than try to convince them.

I am surprised about Mr.Man's comment, I found it very reasonable. Nothing mentioned about Christianity, Bible, Old Testament etc. etc.

Anyway, as I said, nobody will force you into covid-19 vaccination if you don't want it. However as a result, expect not to be allowed to board international flights to certain destinations. That's all....