Happier Abroad Forum Community

Given that this happened in Itaewon and involved crushing and heart attacks, my first thought was whether it involved Western women in some way.

https://apnews.com/article/arrests-seou ... 9245fb36a2

When I read the subject line, I imagined the Subway. It's surprising their aren't more crushings to death in the Subways and those underground passageways as crowded as it is.

I don't remember Itaewon being that crowded, but I just passed through, and apparently this was a big event.

This is an absolute tragedy! I wonder why they all tried cramming into that narrow alleyway anyone hear anything or got any theories?

@MrMan here is a trailer for a good zombie movie about Seoul Station

Pixel--Dude wrote: ↑

October 30th, 2022, 3:57 am

This is an absolute tragedy! I wonder why they all tried cramming into that narrow alleyway anyone hear anything or got any theories?

I've got no clue about the particulars of their Halloween celebrations. I don't think Halloween was a thing there in the mid-1990s when I was there. But having a very 'small' view of personal space was. If you get in a crowd, people are brushing all up against you and think nothing of it, and are not uncomfortable with it. So was drinking and getting mad drunk on soju. There was a lot of that. I can imagine the combination could be quite dangerous if there were a huge crowd at a narrow alleyway.

I think @Yohan might back me up here. I have noticed that narrow hip & happening streets laced with even tinier alleys packed with more establishments are a constant in many Asian cities. I have seen them in Japan, China, Hong Kong. Seoul is probably the same.

Those street are meant for casual walking, they cannot be engaged by hundreds, let alone thousands of people at the same time. I think what compounded the situation was young people's desire to finally spend a Halloween in a mask that is different from a face mask, free from restrictions. It was the typical "compressed spring" effect.

I am not an urban planning specialist, or a civil engineer, but I can imagine the only solution would be to create designated ad-hoc nightlife areas that have ample spaces fronting the main establishments. Or at least force nightlife spots that are meant to accommodate more than a few hundred people to have main entrances leading to large streets, or squares. Safer but...surely those cities would lose some of their charms. Better safe than charmed, I guess...

publicduende wrote: ↑

October 30th, 2022, 9:52 am

I think @Yohan might back me up here. I have noticed that narrow hip & happening streets laced with even tinier alleys packed with more establishments are a constant in many Asian cities. I have seen them in Japan, China, Hong Kong.

Seoul is probably the same.

While the cities with their night life areas in Japan and Korea are similar, the Korean people and the Japanese people are not the same.

Korean people are much more aggressive to each other and South Korea is much smaller than Japan and Seoul is more overcrowded than Tokyo and Koreans really are under much more daily stress and pressure than the Japanese, considering working hours and income... it's better now in Korea compared to some decades ago with its very violent demonstrations at that time - but still, especially young people want to have some fun.... and it is getting horribly crowded, and suddenly all is getting out of control... and this is the sad result....

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This was Seoul about 25 years ago...Students and workers were fighting against police and the government, against all and everything you can imagine.

Yohan wrote: ↑

October 30th, 2022, 11:19 am

While the cities with their night life areas in Japan and Korea are similar, the Korean people and the Japanese people are not the same.

Korean people are much more aggressive to each other and South Korea is much smaller than Japan and Seoul is more overcrowded than Tokyo and Koreans really are under much more daily stress and pressure than the Japanese, considering working hours and income... it's better now in Korea compared to some decades ago with its very violent demonstrations at that time - but still, especially young people want to have some fun.... and it is getting horribly crowded, and suddenly all is getting out of control... and this is the sad result....

That's very true, thanks for bringing it up. Even if the nightlife areas tend to look the same, there is simply no way young Japanese women and men would have ended up in a situation like the one in Itaewon. Korean are more undisciplined and sway easily when rules relax.

I remember a Korean friend I have in Davao telling me exactly that: Koreans are more similar to Chinese in that respect, they are unruly and individualistic. Former Korean kings, he said, introduced Confucianism as a way to impose a universal order in their lives, making them more disciplined and ready to defend their country against the many Chinese and Mongolian invasions.

https://japannews.yomiuri.co.jp/society ... 031-67983/
https://japantoday.com/category/nationa ... een-crowds

We have also huge crowds of people around for this Halloween, for example Shibuya in Tokyo, but so far no problems at all have been reported.

https://japantoday.com/category/nationa ... passengers
https://japantoday.com/category/nationa ... n-partiers

Some shopping centers refuse to let people in halloween costums to enter, and some train lines request not to ride dressed up with extreme halloween clothes.