Indonesia banning sex outside marriage and cohabitation! Tradpills check this out, LOL!

[WilliamSmith]

Hey tradpill crowd, check this out:
@Outcast9428
... erm... who else wants to be tagged on tradpill news?
Sorry if I missed anyone.

Indonesia approves criminal code banning sex outside of marriage

The new code also prohibits cohabitation between unmarried couples

https://www.foxnews.com/world/indonesia ... cmp=tw_fnc

On Tuesday, Indonesia's parliament approved a new criminal code banning sex outside of marriage, which carries a punishment of up to one year in jail.

The new code, passed with support from all political parties, also prohibits cohabitation between unmarried couples.

The code will apply to Indonesians and foreigners and comes despite concerns the laws could keep tourists away and harm investment.

It will not go into effect for three years to allow for the drafting of regulations.

The country already bans adultery but had not done the same for premarital sex.

Maulana Yusran, deputy chief of Indonesia's tourism industry board, said the new code was "totally counter-productive" during a time when the country's economy and tourism were beginning to recover from the coronavirus pandemic.

"We deeply regret the government have closed their eyes. We have already expressed our concern to the ministry of tourism about how harmful this law is," he said.

U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia Sung Kim said at an investment summit that the new code could lead to less foreign investment, tourism and travel to the country.

"Criminalising the personal decisions of individuals would loom large within the decision matrix of many companies determining whether to invest in Indonesia," Kim said.

The code is part of several new laws that critics say impose on civil liberties, along with bans on black magic, insulting the president or state institutions, spreading views counter to state ideology and staging protests without notification.

Indonesia's Law and Human Rights Minister Yasonna Laoly responded to criticism of the new law by telling parliament, "It's not easy for a multicultural and multi-ethnic country to make a criminal code that can accommodate all interests."

[MrMan]

"We deeply regret the government have closed their eyes. We have already expressed our concern to the ministry of tourism about how harmful this law is," he said.

U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia Sung Kim said at an investment summit that the new code could lead to less foreign investment, tourism and travel to the country.

What kind of comment is that? In other words, Indonesia may not get sex tourists? Good riddance. I think a lot of Indonesians would be pleased at the idea of expats not coming to Indonesia hoping to sleep with the local females. Those involved in the prostitution industry, like prostitutes or defacto prostitutes--girls who get 'taxi money' to go home, might disagree.

If Indonesia wants more tourism, they should lift all their Covid restrictions. They are behind many other countries in doing so.

"Criminalising the personal decisions of individuals would loom large within the decision matrix of many companies determining whether to invest in Indonesia," Kim said.

So, less FDI from companies that expect their managers to fornicate with the locals? Maybe it will keep out falsely so called 'gay married' managers.

I read that the House just passed the evil Disrespect for Marriage Act which causes the government to falsely acknowledge male-male and female-female faux marriages as marriages. That could affect American companies, since they could be accused of discrimination, maybe, for not sending sexually immoral managers to Indonesia. I'm not sure how that works in the international arena. Are they free not to allow women to work in Saudi Arabia? I imagine most self-select out.

The code is part of several new laws that critics say impose on civil liberties, along with bans on black magic, insulting the president or state institutions, spreading views counter to state ideology and staging protests without notification.

I'll have to tell my wife about this in case she wants to protest Covid shots again when she goes to Indonesia.

About the black magic, how do they define that? Are they going to chase the flying heads of witchdoctors around the new capital, track them down to the witchdoctor in the hut, and arrest him? What if they claim it is a part of their religion? Would that be protected?

I wonder if all these dukuns putting magic pebbles and needles in people's skin and teeth to make people like them, give them strength or nigh invulnerability are considered legally practitioners of 'black' magic, or if the law just considers that to be regular magic.

[WanderingProtagonist]

I never cared for much of this anyway, Asia is too restricting for me to enjoy what that place has to offer. I might as well stay in shitty America where I do at least have some freedoms left despite it sucks here. Asia is for people who can deal with that super strict ass way of living. But I can't. I have no desire to ever get married either.

[Yohan]

@MrMan

On Tuesday, Indonesia's parliament approved a new criminal code banning sex outside of marriage, which carries a punishment of up to one year in jail.
The new code, passed with support from all political parties, also prohibits cohabitation between unmarried couples.
The code will apply to Indonesians and foreigners and comes despite concerns the laws could keep tourists away and harm investment.

"We deeply regret the government have closed their eyes. We have already expressed our concern to the ministry of tourism about how harmful this law is," he said.
U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia Sung Kim said at an investment summit that the new code could lead to less foreign investment, tourism and travel to the country.

What kind of comment is that? In other words, Indonesia may not get sex tourists? Good riddance. I think a lot of Indonesians would be pleased at the idea of expats not coming to Indonesia hoping to sleep with the local females. Those involved in the prostitution industry, like prostitutes or defacto prostitutes--girls who get 'taxi money' to go home, might disagree.
If Indonesia wants more tourism, they should lift all their Covid restrictions. They are behind many other countries in doing so.

I think, the US ambassador has a valid point - and it is not about sex tourists.

The new law will prohibit 'cohabitation between unmarried couples' and will apply to Indonesian citizens and foreigners.

This means that even a couple - in case both of them are foreigners - travelling together and enter Indonesia together but are not married can be sent to jail of up to one year.

As a fact, there are many couples worldwide - a man and a woman of any age - who are sharing the same rooms in their own countries and are not married. What should they do? To book 2 single rooms?

I can imagine that such a law will scare away foreigners.

Indonesia anyway was never really welcoming to tourists except in some few areas like Bali...
It has nothing to do with Covid-19, but with visa formalities and requirements in general.

[Yohan]

I never cared for much of this anyway, Asia is too restricting for me to enjoy what that place has to offer. I might as well stay in shitty America where I do at least have some freedoms left despite it sucks here. Asia is for people who can deal with that super strict ass way of living. But I can't. I have no desire to ever get married either.

Not all Asia is restrictive and is expecting you to carry a marriage certificate with you - Asian countries are quite different from each other.
Generally said, take a passport, get on an airplane and check out the world outside of the USA.

About Indonesia, this country is a 50/50 choice about to go or not to go. Not all Indonesia is fit for foreign tourists. Indonesian islands are very different from each other by ethnicity of their population, religion, history etc. There are indeed some places worth for sightseeing, but I found the airfare rather expensive compared to other Asian nations nearby.

While for example the small holiday island of Bali or the capital Jakarta located on Java are OK, you would be not welcome in Sumatra in Aceh or other hard-liner Muslim areas. Even the large city of Medan is not known to me to offer anything to Western related foreign visitors.

[WorldTraveler]

Many years ago, Indonesia was the first country I ever visited in Asia. I traveled there with my girlfriend. I guess we would have never visited the country if that law would have existed. This is not a smart move for their tourist industry.

[Yohan]

Many years ago, Indonesia was the first country I ever visited in Asia. I traveled there with my girlfriend. I guess we would have never visited the country if that law would have existed. This is not a smart move for their tourist industry.

I agree with you. My opinion: Don't go there. Avoid such countries. Why should you visit a country which laws are not welcoming you even for a short stay as a tourist, and I am not talking about long-stay, dating and marriage with a local female etc.

Malaysia and not to forget small Brunei have similar laws, but in Malaysia it's only for Muslims and there is no reason anyway to visit little Brunei.

Malaysia has also its issues openly said, in the rural Northern part in Kelantan and Terengganu it is looking like in Iran and even worse. To drink a beer in public is already enough to receive the cane.

With little Chinese and Indian population in that region those Muslim dominated cities in Malaysia are rather boring during night and even during daytime and not very welcoming to the foreign 'infidel'.

Even Thailand, south-east - the other side of the border - is not so much better, Pattani, Narathiwat, Yala.... these are Muslim areas and it is getting dangerous for foreigners and for Buddhist Thais, especially during night.

After separating from my Chinese girlfriend (who was a Malaysian citizen) I married and moved on to Japan, I did not visit that Southern Thai/Northern Malaysia area any more.

My second home for holidays and retirement is now in Pattaya, near Bangkok - much better.....
If I like to travel around I usually prefer to visit Cambodia and not Malaysia.

-----

About Malaysia, it is OK if you visit the Western coastline, like Pulau Langkawi, Penang, Kuala Lumpur and nearby Port Dickson, Malacca etc. Not everybody is a Muslim and also Muslims living there are much more open-minded and talkative to foreigners.

OK in general, but to see more of Malaysia you need to rent a car and drive yourself, there is very little public transport outside of the cities.

About Singapore, this little city state, it's for me nothing but a transit point, but I was not there since many years. All connection flights I and family are using now are also available via Bangkok.

[MrMan]

@MrMan

I think, the US ambassador has a valid point - and it is not about sex tourists.

The new law will prohibit 'cohabitation between unmarried couples' and will apply to Indonesian citizens and foreigners.

This means that even a couple - in case both of them are foreigners - travelling together and enter Indonesia together but are not married can be sent to jail of up to one year.

As a fact, there are many couples worldwide - a man and a woman of any age - who are sharing the same rooms in their own countries and are not married. What should they do? To book 2 single rooms?
I can imagine that such a law will scare away foreigners.

Yes, if they aren't married, they would have to book two rooms. Some hotels may require may not allow a man and a woman in a room together if they aren't married.

It will be hard to enforce some of these laws. I do no think Indonesian policemen will be popping into everyone's bedroom, checking for wedding licenses.

Indonesia anyway was never really welcoming to tourists except in some few areas like Bali...
It has nothing to do with Covid-19, but with visa formalities and requirements in general.

They do have some laws that can make travel and staying there difficult.

[Yohan]

@MrMan

Yes, if they aren't married, they would have to book two rooms. Some hotels may require may not allow a man and a woman in a room together if they aren't married.

It will be hard to enforce some of these laws. I do no think Indonesian policemen will be popping into everyone's bedroom, checking for wedding licenses.

I do not know about Indonesia, but in Malaysia there is the religious police which is checking people in hotel rooms and even private homes during late night time.

Happened also to me long time ago in Malaysia, when I was in my hotel room alone around midnight. My former Chinese girlfriend - who was a Malaysian citizen but not a Muslim - was however staying overnight with her sister and husband in their house far outside of the city located within a large plantation (rubber, palm oil). I am not a Muslim either.

Nobody else was in my room when they came and they were asking some questions, checked my passport and also were searching my belongings for drugs, but nothing was found of course and they left after 20 minutes or so. All three of them were however really very polite towards me.

And yes, they were looking for unmarried Muslim people only - local or foreign, men or women does not matter - who are staying together in the same room - I can only guess, somebody has seen me and my Chinese girlfriend and was reporting us...

This happened in a rural Muslim area to me long time ago....a place with no other foreigners around, not a tourist area.
-------

However not all Malaysia is the same, I remember when I was in Malaysia with my Japanese wife (and I had a copy of my European marriage certificate with me and also a copy of the Japanese family register).

When we arrived in a resort hotel outside of Kuala Lumpur near Port Dickson, I claimed the reserved room and showed the reception my passport and asked if they have to register also my Japanese wife and they told me, not required - just one person is OK. Same also happened in Penang in a resort hotel outside the city. They registered only one person...despite booking a double room.

I guess in future in Indonesia it might be about the same....at least in case if both persons in the room are foreigners and not Muslims. Not sure about locals and Muslims...

Iran has similar laws, I was working together with a man from Europe who took his South American girlfriend (both of them are not Muslims) with him to Teheran where he had to replace another staff member who left. They both were asked to sign a local 'marriage certificate' after arrival. His 'wife' was asked to cover her hair always when going out what she did. They both signed this paper and had no problem during their stay in Iran, because they always carried this document with them - he told me later on there were indeed frequent controls when driving around together by car, when checking into a hotel etc.

Openly said, Muslim culture is not my way of life. Too many restrictions not only for women but also for men.

[MrMan]

@MrMan

Yes, if they aren't married, they would have to book two rooms. Some hotels may require may not allow a man and a woman in a room together if they aren't married.

It will be hard to enforce some of these laws. I do no think Indonesian policemen will be popping into everyone's bedroom, checking for wedding licenses.

I do not know about Indonesia, but in Malaysia there is the religious police which is checking people in hotel rooms and even private homes during late night time.

Happened also to me long time ago in Malaysia, when I was in my hotel room alone around midnight. My former Chinese girlfriend - who was a Malaysian citizen but not a Muslim - was however staying overnight with her sister and husband in their house far outside of the city located within a large plantation (rubber, palm oil). I am not a Muslim either.

Nobody else was in my room when they came and they were asking some questions, checked my passport and also were searching my belongings for drugs, but nothing was found of course and they left after 20 minutes or so. All three of them were however really very polite towards me.

And yes, they were looking for unmarried Muslim people only - local or foreign, men or women does not matter - who are staying together in the same room - I can only guess, somebody has seen me and my Chinese girlfriend and was reporting us...

This happened in a rural Muslim area to me long time ago....a place with no other foreigners around, not a tourist area.
-------

However not all Malaysia is the same, I remember when I was in Malaysia with my Japanese wife (and I had a copy of my European marriage certificate with me and also a copy of the Japanese family register).

When we arrived in a resort hotel outside of Kuala Lumpur near Port Dickson, I claimed the reserved room and showed the reception my passport and asked if they have to register also my Japanese wife and they told me, not required - just one person is OK. Same also happened in Penang in a resort hotel outside the city. They registered only one person...despite booking a double room.

I guess in future in Indonesia it might be about the same....at least in case if both persons in the room are foreigners and not Muslims. Not sure about locals and Muslims...

Iran has similar laws, I was working together with a man from Europe who took his South American girlfriend (both of them are not Muslims) with him to Teheran where he had to replace another staff member who left. They both were asked to sign a local 'marriage certificate' after arrival. His 'wife' was asked to cover her hair always when going out what she did. They both signed this paper and had no problem during their stay in Iran, because they always carried this document with them - he told me later on there were indeed frequent controls when driving around together by car, when checking into a hotel etc.

Openly said, Muslim culture is not my way of life. Too many restrictions not only for women but also for men.

I don't know if there is an infrastructure for enforcement for this in Indonesia. Indonesia now has area autonomy, and Aceh is a special province. Aceh practices a form of Shariah. They used to be restrictive about who went there, also, at least before the tsunami. I have a sister-in-law who lives there, poor thing.

I suspect the fornication law will likely be rarely enforced. But it might deter fornication and help preserve Indonesia is a place in the world where a sizeable portion of the population waits until marriage, especially the females.

I also suspect the law may be helpful in pressuring men who knock up women to marry them. The potential father-in-law could threaten to accuse both his daughter and her partner in fornication to the police, and throw them both in jail if he doesn't marry her. When I was there, they just tried to use social and family pressure to bring that about, but it wasn't very enforceable, at least not for those who lived in the city where social pressure from collectivist culture was not as strong as it is in the village where you see the same few hundred people constantly.