Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities?

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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by publicduende »

@Winston

I haven't talked to Hypermak for more than a year now. I am pretty sure he is happy and safe doing whatever he's doing back in Italy. I don't know why you say he is a "big believer in free will" (and I cannot be bothered digging through his old posts, sorry) but I can repeat you what I already told you about free will, and the way it affects our lives.

From what I know of you, based on your accounts, you grew up in an upper-middle class family where your Mom & Dad probably behaved in an unusual way, compared to the stereotypical Asian-American "tiger parents". They didn't force you to learn piano, they probably never ensured you got straight A's and prepped you to an ivy-league college. They let you do whatever you wanted, they let you be whoever you wanted.

They groomed your teenage free will and kept supporting you throughout your early life choices. After graduation, didn't you join some sort of small circus, or a magician's act? You did some freelance journalism, some writing, something along those lines, as I vaguely recall. Then, at some point, you decided that you wanted to find a social, perhaps sexual, freedom that you believed was off-limits to you in the US. You set out and began your long journey through Russia and some of the Baltic states. I am pretty sure your parents, maybe your Dad alone, supported - and I mean financially - supported your choice to travel.

Some of your detractors mocked you by saying that you wooed a few of those Russian blondies thanks to Daddy's credit card. Whether that's true or not, I don't see anything reprehensible about it. Your Dad understood your needs and wanted to help you with the experience that changed your life. And, more or less partially, more or less indirectly, that of at least a few of us HA members.

In other words, you exercised your free will to engage in unconventional choices - unconventional, at least, by the standard of the typical-ass Asian-American kid whose parents groom to be a doctor, an engineer or a successful classical musician in the worst case scenario.

You engaged in those choices because you could afford to.

And, most importantly, you could afford to for two reasons:
  1. your Dad actually helped you, at least financially if not emotionally
  2. if one good thing ever came of your lonely high school year, it was surely the lack of peer pressure that pushed you to conform to a certain mold: hang out with specific kids, play specific sports, take a specific job and act in specific ways. As a withdrawn kid, the world was, literally, your oyster. You took your backpack and your video camera and chose to have your stab at cracking that oyster open.
So, Winston, the kind of free will that every human being has in themselves, was given all the right kind of support and ways to grow and thrive.

Just imagine what would have been of you, and all that free will, if your parents had brought you up to be like one of your cousins: an over-educated, career-minded and ultimately super-conformist member of upper-class America. By now you might have been a father of two or three, a husband to an equally-minded Taiwanese-American wife. You might have had a big house somewhere in suburban LA, perhaps a vacation home by a lake or beach, where you would take your family during the rare long weekends that you can, or want to, steal from your relentless office routine.

If that had been you, your cousin, you certainly wouldn't be complaining. You certainly wouldn't have even begun to ruminate on the notion of being "happier abroad" because your clinic or office, your home and family and those two weeks a year of vacation would be all there is to your life. They would be the complete perimeter of your existence, the pretty wooden fence studded with those big red roses.

All of this to say, dear Winston, that we are indeed the product of our free will, from those acts of free will which we can recognise as remarkable, essential, pivotal to our existence, down to small choices we deem trivial, obvious, and we forget about 5 minutes later.

Perhaps most importantly, our free will isn't free at all. It can grow and thrive with the right kind of support, a particularly stubborn or rebellious personality, or the happenstance of being born in a super-liberal or hippy family, or perhaps an abusive one where the only way is the way out. It can also be bridled and driven, beat into shape and muted by peer pressure and conformism.

The moment we take on somebody else's dreams, yes, we gain clarity, a certain direction, a method, probably. However, we do so at the cost of never knowing what dreams we would have been capable of, if only we had the time, the chance, the energy, the courage to conjure them up, to hold onto them long and hard enough.

A bit from a song by the Dave Matthews Band just sprung to mind. I think it sounds beautiful, and relevant.
I don't want to wake up
Lost in the dreams of our fathers.
Oh, it's such a waste, child
To live and die for the dreams of our fathers
Though I must confess, yes
My view is a wonder about this
This love I possess, love
It must be the dreams of our fathers.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by yick »

Very good post @publicduende !
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Winston »

Another example I just realized:

One of my favorite TV shows was Airwolf from the 1980s. The star in it, Jan Michael Vincent, after the series turned into a severe alcoholic and it ruined his life. He was never able to recover for the rest of his life. I'm sure he got the best help from professionals from Los Angeles and Hollywood but no one could help him recover from his chronic alcoholism. It totally destroyed him and the best professionals in the US could not help him. Very sad and tragic. Where was his free will? Why couldn't he simply choose to overcome his alcoholism? Why didn't God or the universe allow him to exercise his free will to stop it? If fate is cruel like that then we don't have much free will and it's out of our hands right? How do you guys explain that?
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Gali »

Winston wrote:
September 20th, 2021, 1:24 am
Another example I just realized:

One of my favorite TV shows was Airwolf from the 1980s. The star in it, Jan Michael Vincent, after the series turned into a severe alcoholic and it ruined his life. He was never able to recover for the rest of his life. I'm sure he got the best help from professionals from Los Angeles and Hollywood but no one could help him recover from his chronic alcoholism. It totally destroyed him and the best professionals in the US could not help him. Very sad and tragic. Where was his free will? Why couldn't he simply choose to overcome his alcoholism? Why didn't God or the universe allow him to exercise his free will to stop it? If fate is cruel like that then we don't have much free will and it's out of our hands right? How do you guys explain that?
I actually liked the show but mainly for the catchy theme song. The guy was quite boring.

Of course he had free will. His will was to be an alcoholic. lol. He will be punished for that in his afterlife too btw.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by publicduende »

yick wrote:
September 18th, 2021, 10:18 am
Very good post @publicduende !
See, this is why I don't post here anymore. It took me more than half an hour to pen the reply above to a question @Winston himself asked me. He didn't grace me with an answer, he just moved on with more and more of his one-way verbal challenges.

Perhaps he considers his family background and upbringing as less of a root cause for who he is than the Archons and assorted demons from another dimension.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by yick »

publicduende wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 2:47 am
yick wrote:
September 18th, 2021, 10:18 am
Very good post @publicduende !
See, this is why I don't post here anymore. It took me more than half an hour to pen the reply above to a question @Winston himself asked me. He didn't grace me with an answer, he just moved on with more and more of his one-way verbal challenges.

Perhaps he considers his family background and upbringing as less of a root cause for who he is than the Archons and assorted demons from another dimension.
Indeed, he wants people to indulge him in his huge circle wank - 'Murphy' won't allow him happiness therefore nothing you or any of us can say will be of any use or even be noted.

And even though you have told him dozens of times that you aren't Hypermak - he is convinced that you are :roll:
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Gali »

publicduende wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 2:47 am
yick wrote:
September 18th, 2021, 10:18 am
Very good post @publicduende !
See, this is why I don't post here anymore. It took me more than half an hour to pen the reply above to a question @Winston himself asked me. He didn't grace me with an answer, he just moved on with more and more of his one-way verbal challenges.

Perhaps he considers his family background and upbringing as less of a root cause for who he is than the Archons and assorted demons from another dimension.
With all due respect what you wrote was more poetic than anything else. Hard to deal with it except on an artistic level.

Joe Rogan - Does Free Will Exist?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZCB3skWIxc
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by publicduende »

Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 3:13 am
With all due respect what you wrote was more poetic than anything else. Hard to deal with it except on an artistic level.
Yes, the last part was perhaps a bit more cheese than one would want to swallow. But the main message, I think, was clear enough: one can't complain that the majority of people lack "free will" or sufficient "alternative thinking mind" if all they received, basically since kindergarten, was conditioning towards the "study, marry, work hard and consume hard, be successful, consume harder, die" life pattern.

Vice-versa, it's a lot easier to be a free spirit if that conditioning was missing.

I think Winston should slow down and reflect how lucky he has been, to have had parents who secured his life no matter what choices he made (or didn't make). It's something that only happen in maybe 1% of the families, probably even less so in super-conformist Asian families.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Gali »

I think the main topic is if free will exists and I think free will does not exist.

Another point of interest could be if one accepts that free will does not exist does his life style change?

Count your blessings is a classic way to raise ones mood or happiness. One interesting part could be that gratitude can make one less risktaking and therefore maybe regret being too grateful because of FOMO.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by publicduende »

Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 6:36 am
I think the main topic is if free will exists and I think free will does not exist.

Another point of interest could be if one accepts that free will does not exist does his life style change?

Count your blessings is a classic way to raise ones mood or happiness. One interesting part could be that gratitude can make one less risktaking and therefore maybe regret being too grateful because of FOMO.
By reading it, the topic seems to be "Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities?". My stance, once again, is that:
  • free will exists, and is the prime mover of all human actions, no matter how epic or insignificant
  • free will can be compromised, interfered with, or even blocked by conformism, blind adherence to a prescribed view on life, social conduct, success, etc.
  • for the reasons described in my original post (and probably many others I am not aware of), Winston had way too much freedom to make (or not to make) his own alternative life choices.
  • in other words, compared to the typical late-40s family man with kids, job & mortgage, Winston's free will has been exercised a lot, perhaps not always to his best benefit, but still in a way that 90% of his peers, especially his Asian-american peers including his family, couldn't even begin to dream of
  • most important point of all, if Winston could slow down or stop for a minute and look back to his existence, he would realise that not only his free will is anything but blocked (certainly not by spiritual vampires!), but has been enabled and allowed to thrive by choices made by his (frankly wonderful) parents. I can't relate personal information Winston told me a while ago, but I can say that I am certain that he will be able to continue exercising his hypertrophic free will for the rest of his life.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Gali »

It is a waste of time to try to help W. on this as you might remember why.

Regarding free will. When you look scientifically that is cause and effect there is no reason to believe in free will and even in an I. Where do you get your confidence that it exists? Because of your feelings?
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Tsar »

Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:36 am
It is a waste of time to try to help W. on this as you might remember why.

Regarding free will. When you look scientifically that is cause and effect there is no reason to believe in free will and even in an I. Where do you get your confidence that it exists? Because of your feelings?
Freewill doesn't exist. Some choices have more freedom than others depending on the time of history, the place in history, and the specific situation but freewill never existed because of societies, laws, armies, and competing nations. And now, in this useless, miserable world that useless humans now populate, it's the least free in possible.

The only real choices people can in 2021 make are what to buy to eat at a grocery store...
I'm a visionary and a philosopher king 👑
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by publicduende »

Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:36 am
It is a waste of time to try to help W. on this as you might remember why.
That is definitely true...but old habits are hard to die :-)
Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:36 am
Regarding free will. When you look scientifically that is cause and effect there is no reason to believe in free will and even in an I. Where do you get your confidence that it exists? Because of your feelings?
By cause/effect are you referring to the effects of our choices? Sure, I agree with that. I call free will the ability to make the choice that will determine that effect...or perhaps something completely different. Free will is what makes us different from animals...or from Angels...
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Gali »

Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:57 am
publicduende wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:48 am
Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:36 am
It is a waste of time to try to help W. on this as you might remember why.
That is definitely true...but old habits are hard to die :-)
Gali wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 8:36 am
Regarding free will. When you look scientifically that is cause and effect there is no reason to believe in free will and even in an I. Where do you get your confidence that it exists? Because of your feelings?
By cause/effect are you referring to the effects of our choices? Sure, I agree with that. I call free will the ability to make the choice that will determine that effect...or perhaps something completely different. Free will is what makes us different from animals...or from Angels...
You should be harder on yourself at least with this older habit. lol.

No with cause and effect I refere to physics. Like in a computer where electrons in transistors do the cause and effect same happens in our brains. Electrons, atoms, molecules in our brain are the cause and our thinking and actions are the effects.

Btw with enough technology it is not too difficult to make a man a women or an animal and control their choices as well.

Also like manipulating markets one can even manipulate people socially. If a mighty psychopath wants some fun he could punish you for your good decisions. That would create quite a chaos in trying to make good choices.

Additionally there is no I as well. Who is an I? Buckets of neurons firing some electrons that create some kind of feeling and thoughs that some say is an I. Seems kind of an illusion.

On a practical level we work with free will and the I for survival needs but when you look closer we are just a bunch of neurons doing stuff.
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Re: Is our Free Will compromised, interfered with, or blocked? If so, is it by inner fragmentation or spiritual entities

Post by Winston »

yick wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 2:51 am
publicduende wrote:
September 26th, 2021, 2:47 am
yick wrote:
September 18th, 2021, 10:18 am
Very good post @publicduende !
See, this is why I don't post here anymore. It took me more than half an hour to pen the reply above to a question @Winston himself asked me. He didn't grace me with an answer, he just moved on with more and more of his one-way verbal challenges.

Perhaps he considers his family background and upbringing as less of a root cause for who he is than the Archons and assorted demons from another dimension.
Indeed, he wants people to indulge him in his huge circle wank - 'Murphy' won't allow him happiness therefore nothing you or any of us can say will be of any use or even be noted.

And even though you have told him dozens of times that you aren't Hypermak - he is convinced that you are :roll:
I don't care if PD is hypermak or not. I cannot prove one way or the other. So I remain agnostic about it. But since PD and hypermak are both intelligent good quality posters, I just give them the benefit of the doubt. I thought I made that clear already? Why do you assume I still presume they are the same? I do not jump to conclusions if I cannot prove it either way.

However, Rock says he is 100 percent convinced that they are the same. But I don't care either way, because whether they are the same person or not does not affect the larger issues in life.

I do appreciate PD's replies but he is just saying the same thing as before about my background and not addressing the core root of my question. I write many long replies which get ignored too. So he's not the only one.
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