Aesthetics Are A Moral Imperative

[Pixel--Dude]

I am low on data (Scotch heritage penny pincher) but will get back to you on this with lots of pics as well as my comments:

Ancient Chinese art, architecture and aesthetic style absolutely blows me away, I am crazy about it! The way they use brilliant intricate architecture, and use a hypnotic approach to build those amazing heavily laquered interiors and atmospheric lighting is also amazing. The Cantonese built tons of amazing things all over the place in their diaspora as well as on their own turf, but there's some exceptionally great stuff in Vietnam (which has its own interesting artistic traditions too mixing native, Chinese, and even French/European influences, as well as some from the old Khmer kingdoms they would brawl with in some older periods of history, as well as continuously brawling with the Chinese). But they mostly embraced Chinese aesthetic influences despite their fierce sense of distinct national identity and tradition of refusing to willingly just become vassals of China.

Traditional Japanese art is really cool, and they have some elements that are all their own, but what I like best in aesthetics still tends to be primarily an offshoot of embracing the Chinese styles. In music it is actually very much an exception: I like Chinese ancient/classical traditional music which is more sentimental a lot of times (sometimes gets zany), but Japanese traditional music (gagaku, shinto music, for example) is totally a creature of its own and unbelievably atmospheric and appealing. Their sense of integrating Shinto traditions in the beautiful natural environments they have there combined with the otherworldly nature of their music impresses me.

Anyway, of those Western styles, I personally only like realism or very ancient stuff, I can't stand any of it when it gets into abstraction and deliberate ugliness.

I mostly dislike Western art even though I acknowledge the amazing skill of realist painters and some European architecture (though can't say I'm too crazy about it except some very Germanic "gothic" looking stuff here and there).

The Western stuff I like:

Albert Bierstadt, a real legend. He influenced a lot of others in the amazing way he used lighting as well as being a masterful landscape painter.

There were some others from that optimistic late 1800s period with very nice skill, which was appreciated at that point before it all went to shit from degenerate art and abstraction being promoted as all the rage. Thomas Cole was kinda whacky yet had similarly strong skill.

Gustave Dore, an illustrator who actually worked in woodcuts, an astounding feat considering he's be one the very best. He also paints too.

There's some other good names in there I'm not thinking of off the top of my head, but it'll be a fun topic to return to.

Later on almost everything I ever see in "serious" art is a bunch of crap (I'm sure there's exceptions, but never saw too many), but people with more talent ended up in popular entertainment rather than the art scene:
I like what some vintage retro RPG artists did where they brought in a more "gothic" style, which was used quite a bit in stuff like 80's popular entertainment, and stayed pretty good up into the mid-1990s when aesthetic styles all started going down the tubes and lost their edge for the most part.

Do you mean images like these?











These are supposed to be ancient Chinese art works. And they do have their own charm. Also, ancient Chinese architecture is pretty cool. I agree with you about traditional Japanese art as well. They often have decent aesthetic styles.

When you get back from your trip you will have to share some of your favourites from ancient Chinese or Japanese art works. Hope you're having a good time, my dude.

I also really like realism as an art style, I would say it is my favourite style as well. The Renaissance was a great period for art work. Like the Mona Lisa painted by Leonardo da Vinci. Some of the art was inspired by Christian theology as pointed out by @Outcast9428 Here are some examples:


Birth of Venus - Sandro Botticelli


The Creation of Adam - Michelangelo.

As for the other styles I asked about I don't like the minimalist style, I don't see the point in it. I remember when @Lucas88 and myself went to a new gallery which had been built in our local area and there was a lot of minimalist and post modern art. We just thought it was hilarious. There was even an empty canvass "True Minimalism" and just a signature at the bottom. That composition Red Yellow and Blue is just too simplistic to be considered art in my opinion. I don't see what is talented about that at all.

I like Surrealism though, for the simple fact that they remind me of dream scapes and often have hidden meaning which has to be interpreted by the viewer.

Surrealism
Surrealism art consists of dream-like images and symbolic imagery. It often depicts a bizarre representation of every day objects. Salvador Dalí is an example of a surrealist artist. Here is one of his most famous paintings:


The Persistence of Memory - Salvador Dalí.

The meaning behind this painting has something to do with these "soft" watches representing that time is omnipresent and has mastery over humanity, it is inexorable.

I don't think much to Cubism though as an art style, in fact I think the example I posted of Picasso's Weeping Woman looks pretty ugly if I am being honest.

I am neutral towards Expressionism. Even though The Scream is pretty iconic, I don't think much of it. Although capturing human expression through art isn't necessarily a bad thing. I just don't think it compares to a nice painting of a landscape like the one you shared @WilliamSmith

[Outcast9428]

@Pixel--Dude

I agree that aesthetics are a moral imperative. It goes beyond the obvious with art and architecture though. Two things I really can’t stand are graffiti and tattoos. Graffiti immediately makes a neighborhood ugly and threatening and tattoos are basically graffiti for the human body.

I don’t care what anybody says, if somebody gets tattoos I consider them to be closer to the criminal world. They may not be a murderer or a gang member but I consider them to be more likely to assault me for whatever reason or commit vandalism/petty theft and if I was hiring people I’d consider them more likely to be a troublemaker.

The more tattoos and the larger and more prominent they are on someone, the more sketchy of a person I consider them to be. And I see people like this going “f**k those evangelicals for judging us!” Yeah f**k us for not liking it when everybody looks like trash because they’ve scribbled graffiti all over their bodies.

And neighborhoods with graffiti are a telltale sign that it’s full of criminals. That’s why you only see graffiti in cities because that’s where all the criminals are. You won’t see graffiti in a normal suburb full of families.

Tattoos and graffiti are disgusting and I automatically consider a country to be higher value and more advanced as a civilization when they don’t tolerate them. It’s yet another reason why I love Asians.

[WilliamSmith]

@Pixel--Dude
Yes, those are beautiful examples! That old primarily Chinese-inspired style is incredible.
I'm still not going to have much time yet because of leaving again soon, but I had better throw in some good stuff in the next few days showing the mind-blowingly beautiful architecture the Cantonese have built all over the world. Some of my favorite examples are in Vietnam.

[Pixel--Dude]

@Pixel--Dude

I agree that aesthetics are a moral imperative. It goes beyond the obvious with art and architecture though. Two things I really can’t stand are graffiti and tattoos. Graffiti immediately makes a neighborhood ugly and threatening and tattoos are basically graffiti for the human body.

I don’t care what anybody says, if somebody gets tattoos I consider them to be closer to the criminal world. They may not be a murderer or a gang member but I consider them to be more likely to assault me for whatever reason or commit vandalism/petty theft and if I was hiring people I’d consider them more likely to be a troublemaker.

The more tattoos and the larger and more prominent they are on someone, the more sketchy of a person I consider them to be. And I see people like this going “f**k those evangelicals for judging us!” Yeah f**k us for not liking it when everybody looks like trash because they’ve scribbled graffiti all over their bodies.

And neighborhoods with graffiti are a telltale sign that it’s full of criminals. That’s why you only see graffiti in cities because that’s where all the criminals are. You won’t see graffiti in a normal suburb full of families.

Tattoos and graffiti are disgusting and I automatically consider a country to be higher value and more advanced as a civilization when they don’t tolerate them. It’s yet another reason why I love Asians.

Hey @Outcast9428 sorry it took so long to get back to you on this. I was preoccupied in the Appeal For Tsar's Ban thread which went on for several pages and got very heated, as you probably saw.

I agree with you about graffiti, I think it is inspired by an art style called Pop Art. Andy Worhol is supposedly a famous artist who used the Pop Art style, then there is obviously Banksy as well. I don't think street art is always a bad thing, but I think it is best as a temporary art piece rather than permanent slogans spray painted on the side of buildings etc.

I don't know if you've ever seen this kind of realistic street art which I think is pretty cool, but again only if it is a temporary feature and as long as it is approved previously. I think that is the difference between street art and graffiti.

Here are some images to demonstrate what I perceive to be the difference between art and vandalism in terms of street art.











It can't be denied that these are really talented works of art. I don't know if they are permanent or temporary, but they are really good pieces of art. As opposed to the following which I see as vandalism rather than art.







I plan to extend this thread further at a later time to cover the aesthetics of human beauty and cover things like cosmetics and plastic surgery and natural beauty, again I plan on pointing out how certain standards of beauty are objective rather than subjective and this is true of both art and human beauty.

@Pixel--Dude
Yes, those are beautiful examples! That old primarily Chinese-inspired style is incredible.
I'm still not going to have much time yet because of leaving again soon, but I had better throw in some good stuff in the next few days showing the mind-blowingly beautiful architecture the Cantonese have built all over the world. Some of my favorite examples are in Vietnam.

I can honestly see the appeal, dude. The ancient Chinese art style has its own charm and definitely reaches the standard of objective aesthetic beauty. Your examples of architecture will be most welcome, my friend! Looking forward to it.

[Outcast9428]

@Pixel--Dude

I agree that aesthetics are a moral imperative. It goes beyond the obvious with art and architecture though. Two things I really can’t stand are graffiti and tattoos. Graffiti immediately makes a neighborhood ugly and threatening and tattoos are basically graffiti for the human body.

I don’t care what anybody says, if somebody gets tattoos I consider them to be closer to the criminal world. They may not be a murderer or a gang member but I consider them to be more likely to assault me for whatever reason or commit vandalism/petty theft and if I was hiring people I’d consider them more likely to be a troublemaker.

The more tattoos and the larger and more prominent they are on someone, the more sketchy of a person I consider them to be. And I see people like this going “f**k those evangelicals for judging us!” Yeah f**k us for not liking it when everybody looks like trash because they’ve scribbled graffiti all over their bodies.

And neighborhoods with graffiti are a telltale sign that it’s full of criminals. That’s why you only see graffiti in cities because that’s where all the criminals are. You won’t see graffiti in a normal suburb full of families.

Tattoos and graffiti are disgusting and I automatically consider a country to be higher value and more advanced as a civilization when they don’t tolerate them. It’s yet another reason why I love Asians.

Hey @Outcast9428 sorry it took so long to get back to you on this. I was preoccupied in the Appeal For Tsar's Ban thread which went on for several pages and got very heated, as you probably saw.

I agree with you about graffiti, I think it is inspired by an art style called Pop Art. Andy Worhol is supposedly a famous artist who used the Pop Art style, then there is obviously Banksy as well. I don't think street art is always a bad thing, but I think it is best as a temporary art piece rather than permanent slogans spray painted on the side of buildings etc.

I don't know if you've ever seen this kind of realistic street art which I think is pretty cool, but again only if it is a temporary feature and as long as it is approved previously. I think that is the difference between street art and graffiti.

Here are some images to demonstrate what I perceive to be the difference between art and vandalism in terms of street art.











It can't be denied that these are really talented works of art. I don't know if they are permanent or temporary, but they are really good pieces of art. As opposed to the following which I see as vandalism rather than art.







I plan to extend this thread further at a later time to cover the aesthetics of human beauty and cover things like cosmetics and plastic surgery and natural beauty, again I plan on pointing out how certain standards of beauty are objective rather than subjective and this is true of both art and human beauty.

@Pixel--Dude
Yes, those are beautiful examples! That old primarily Chinese-inspired style is incredible.
I'm still not going to have much time yet because of leaving again soon, but I had better throw in some good stuff in the next few days showing the mind-blowingly beautiful architecture the Cantonese have built all over the world. Some of my favorite examples are in Vietnam.

I can honestly see the appeal, dude. The ancient Chinese art style has its own charm and definitely reaches the standard of objective aesthetic beauty. Your examples of architecture will be most welcome, my friend! Looking forward to it.

I agree that the street art images you posted are completely different from the graffiti. That actually has purpose and talent behind it whereas graffiti just looks like ugly scribbling all over the wall.

[galii]

Art is not a moral imperative. In Islam most art is probited because art produces a lot of weirdos.

[WilliamSmith]

@Pixel--Dude
Yes, those are beautiful examples! That old primarily Chinese-inspired style is incredible.
I'm still not going to have much time yet because of leaving again soon, but I had better throw in some good stuff in the next few days showing the mind-blowingly beautiful architecture the Cantonese have built all over the world. Some of my favorite examples are in Vietnam.

I can honestly see the appeal, dude. The ancient Chinese art style has its own charm and definitely reaches the standard of objective aesthetic beauty. Your examples of architecture will be most welcome, my friend! Looking forward to it.

@Pixel--Dude Thanks man! I'll look for some of the even more legendary ancient Chinese and Cantonese ones (and Japanese variants) in a bit, but here's some of them from Vietnam where there's strong Chinese influence (and some places were even built directly by the Cantonese there) but also their own Vietnamese blend:

Thien Tru Heavenly Kitchen Pagoda:




I actually didn't get exactly where this was written down but I think it was at the Imperial Hue Citadel, but it's an awesome example of the aesthetics I'm so crazy about:


Bai Duong House of Ceremonies Altar of Confucius


Altar to the Trung Sisters (the two legendary warrior babes who led the rebellion and overthrew the first Chinese Imperial domination of Vietnam in the year 40 AD and ruled for a couple years, so are considered national heroines):


Ngo Mon Gate Citadel, very kick-ass macho artchitecture:






Some of the interior architecture at Ngo Mon:


Japan also has some seriously studly castles they built up in ways of their own with strong Chinese influence.

How to make your Tang dynasty architecture more metal, LOL:

Osaka Castle:


Plus now it's surrounded in impressive cyberpunk skyline surroundings, looks awesome:

[Pixel--Dude]

@Pixel--Dude
Yes, those are beautiful examples! That old primarily Chinese-inspired style is incredible.
I'm still not going to have much time yet because of leaving again soon, but I had better throw in some good stuff in the next few days showing the mind-blowingly beautiful architecture the Cantonese have built all over the world. Some of my favorite examples are in Vietnam.

I can honestly see the appeal, dude. The ancient Chinese art style has its own charm and definitely reaches the standard of objective aesthetic beauty. Your examples of architecture will be most welcome, my friend! Looking forward to it.

@Pixel--Dude Thanks man! I'll look for some of the even more legendary ancient Chinese and Cantonese ones (and Japanese variants) in a bit, but here's some of them from Vietnam where there's strong Chinese influence (and some places were even built directly by the Cantonese there) but also their own Vietnamese blend:

Thien Tru Heavenly Kitchen Pagoda:




I actually didn't get exactly where this was written down but I think it was at the Imperial Hue Citadel, but it's an awesome example of the aesthetics I'm so crazy about:


Bai Duong House of Ceremonies Altar of Confucius


Altar to the Trung Sisters (the two legendary warrior babes who led the rebellion and overthrew the first Chinese Imperial domination of Vietnam in the year 40 AD and ruled for a couple years, so are considered national heroines):


Ngo Mon Gate Citadel, very kick-ass macho artchitecture:






Some of the interior architecture at Ngo Mon:


Japan also has some seriously studly castles they built up in ways of their own with strong Chinese influence.

How to make your Tang dynasty architecture more metal, LOL:

Osaka Castle:


Plus now it's surrounded in impressive cyberpunk skyline surroundings, looks awesome:

Thanks for sharing these @WilliamSmith they are pretty cool. I particularly like the Ngo Mon Gate Citadel and Osaka Castle, although I think the background would be better looking with a forest and some mountains as opposed to a cityscape.

I've always felt drawn to traditional oriental architecture. I think maybe I had a past life in feudal Japan or something

Which kind of architecture do you prefer between modern architecture or ancient architecture? Have you seen this Hindu temple? I think I shared it in a different thread, though I can't remember where exactly it was.



Apparently it is called Ranganathaswamy Temple. I like it because of the colours and all the intricate and interesting designs. Here are some more images of the same temple.

[WilliamSmith]

Thanks for sharing these @WilliamSmith they are pretty cool. I particularly like the Ngo Mon Gate Citadel and Osaka Castle, although I think the background would be better looking with a forest and some mountains as opposed to a cityscape.

I've always felt drawn to traditional oriental architecture. I think maybe I had a past life in feudal Japan or something

Which kind of architecture do you prefer between modern architecture or ancient architecture? Have you seen this Hindu temple? I think I shared it in a different thread, though I can't remember where exactly it was.



Apparently it is called Ranganathaswamy Temple. I like it because of the colours and all the intricate and interesting designs. Here are some more images of the same temple.

@Pixel--Dude
You're most welcome sir, and thank you for that impressive Hindu architecture: I don't know anything about it yet, but that Ranganathaswamy Temple is an amazing structure.
India has never been on my expat list but it's such a fascinating culture I couldn't help picking up some books on it in my recent binge when I started researching expat stuff a few years ago so I can at least learn an overview of its ancient history. My eyes were also bulging when I was a boy and first read some of their ancient literature that sounded like it was describing flying craft and the use of nuclear weapons, yet another fascinating aspect to look into more sometime...
But just on the aesthetic side: Their ancient culture and architecture has had a large impact on a lot of the interesting South East Asian nations I like as well (and also a genetic impact you can probably see most clearly in certain countries like Cambodia, if I'm not mistaken), and you can see interesting Indian influences in both architecture and folklore and music in a lot of those. That tradition of the Naga people forming a sort of reptilian hidden ruling class is really interesting stuff, long before David Icke ever wove it into the fabric of his modern day materials.

As for ancient vs modern architecture, I typically prefer ancient in most places, but after dark the fully lit towering modern high-rise skyscrapers and nighttime skylines in some cities do have a very cool modern aesthetic appeal.
Hong Kong city lights at night spring to mind as a great example. I also like how Hong Kong blends modern architecture and towering high-rises along with the old-time Cantonese architecture, traditional Chinese fishing boats in the harbor, and the overall mix of ancient/traditional and modern aesthetics in the same impressive place. I will post some pics of that stuff later on when I come back here again.

[Pixel--Dude]

Thanks for sharing these @WilliamSmith they are pretty cool. I particularly like the Ngo Mon Gate Citadel and Osaka Castle, although I think the background would be better looking with a forest and some mountains as opposed to a cityscape.

I've always felt drawn to traditional oriental architecture. I think maybe I had a past life in feudal Japan or something

Which kind of architecture do you prefer between modern architecture or ancient architecture? Have you seen this Hindu temple? I think I shared it in a different thread, though I can't remember where exactly it was.



Apparently it is called Ranganathaswamy Temple. I like it because of the colours and all the intricate and interesting designs. Here are some more images of the same temple.

@Pixel--Dude
You're most welcome sir, and thank you for that impressive Hindu architecture: I don't know anything about it yet, but that Ranganathaswamy Temple is an amazing structure.
India has never been on my expat list but it's such a fascinating culture I couldn't help picking up some books on it in my recent binge when I started researching expat stuff a few years ago so I can at least learn an overview of its ancient history. My eyes were also bulging when I was a boy and first read some of their ancient literature that sounded like it was describing flying craft and the use of nuclear weapons, yet another fascinating aspect to look into more sometime...
But just on the aesthetic side: Their ancient culture and architecture has had a large impact on a lot of the interesting South East Asian nations I like as well (and also a genetic impact you can probably see most clearly in certain countries like Cambodia, if I'm not mistaken), and you can see interesting Indian influences in both architecture and folklore and music in a lot of those. That tradition of the Naga people forming a sort of reptilian hidden ruling class is really interesting stuff, long before David Icke ever wove it into the fabric of his modern day materials.

As for ancient vs modern architecture, I typically prefer ancient in most places, but after dark the fully lit towering modern high-rise skyscrapers and nighttime skylines in some cities do have a very cool modern aesthetic appeal.
Hong Kong city lights at night spring to mind as a great example. I also like how Hong Kong blends modern architecture and towering high-rises along with the old-time Cantonese architecture, traditional Chinese fishing boats in the harbor, and the overall mix of ancient/traditional and modern aesthetics in the same impressive place. I will post some pics of that stuff later on when I come back here again.

Oh yeah the Vimana. The flying cities described in Hindu mythology. Yeah it is interesting and it reminds me of our conversation in a previous thread about starting a new thread on Ancient Aliens.

But anyway this is the Vimana


I also prefer ancient architecture. Traditional Asain architecture is my favourite. I do like some examples of modern architecture, but an old temple or castle is much more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion than a crowded cityscape.

You going on another trip so soon? Haha! Lucky for some. Have a good time, dude. I'm going to expand this thread later to talk about the aesthetics of human beauty etc, but still feel free to add some examples of Cantonese architecture if you want.

[Pixel--Dude]

Hey guys I want to expand this thread yet again to cover the aesthetic of human beauty and what standards you guys have in terms of beauty. As usual I'm just going to tag those who have commented so far. Really sorry if I miss anyone.

@Lucas88
@WilliamSmith
@Outcast9428
@gsjackson

What are your opinions on cosmetics? I think some eye make-up can enhance the beauty of the eyes. Some girls have gorgeous eyes and their natural beauty is accentuated by the application of some eye makeup. Bit of lip gloss makes their lips look pretty hot as well.


This is an example of what I mean. See the difference?

Conversely I can't stand women who look like their makeup was applied by a plasterer or something they just look like absolute clowns and it actually diminishes their beauty. Take a look at these girls with their layers upon layers of makeup on. They look like circus clowns





What about cosmetic surgery? Do you think this enhances female beauty or just diminishes it? Some women go over the top and I think it ends up making these women look like caricatures or a cross between a human and a duck.





What the hell possessed these women into thinking this was a good idea?! They don't look attractive! It doesn't enhance natural beauty! They just look comical and ridiculous!

Talking of cosmetic surgery brings me back to an old question I asked a while ago. Real boobies or fake boobies? Which are better and why?

Going back to cosmetics and make up I find it amazing how much some women can completely change their appearance with some makeup. Check out these women who are proud catfishes. They look totally different in makeup.

[Pixel--Dude]

Since I believe there is a universal standard of objective moral beauty I have to wonder if we have a natural aversion to that which is objectively ugly.

Such as spiders and insects



Could this be why people really fear spiders? Because of how horrifically ugly they are? Anything with too many eyes and too many legs is ugly as f**k

[Pixel--Dude]

I was talking to @Lucas88 today and I told him that I had been to a local art gallery. Most of the exhibits were closed off for some reason, but I suppose I can't grumble too much as entry was free.

One room was full of traditional paintings depicting landscapes such as forests and mountains. Other paintings shown stuff like some guy fighting a tiger and mermaids luring sailors onto the rocks. I really liked and appreciated this room.

Then the next room was a total joke. It was several post modern art exhibits. One looked like someone had ordered something from amazon and towered polystyrene and bits of garbage and thrown grey paint over it. Another looked like a table with kids toys just left strewn around on it. Another exhibit was a brown tie with scribbles on it in a glass container. Then there was a film someone made which overlapped a city, a living room and a woman's face staring at the screen and it was supposed to represent the artist's struggles through covid. I thought it was pure bollocks.

I thought the post modern art section was a f***ing mockery of real art! How can the trash mentioned in the previous paragraph be called art the same as the amazingly talented paintings in the first room? It pissed me off! It angers me that absolute crap now is elevated to the status of art and not just seen as the meaningless shit that it is!