Happier Abroad Forum Community

They are about 50 years late but better late than never

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNsfqNA6 ... re=related

Note that the Cantonese boy's mother calls a Filipina teacher- a person of another race.

It seems that at the end, the teacher is hiding her ethnicity by saying she's "from America". Is that some sort of category that the Chinese will tolerate?

Yes, an American is not assumed to be a maid or a karaoke girl.

Chinese culture is Han ethnocentric, but more open to accepting immigrants and assimilation than the Japanese. If you're born Korean and moved to China, learned the language, adopt local culture and use your Hanja name, you'd be fairly well accepted. The same would not be true in Japan. It was difficult for Zainichi Koreans to be accepted in the 20th century, and 1st generation immigrants today would probably still face many difficulties. In China a 1st gen Korean immigrant can gain better acceptance than he would in Japan, but if the immigrant is non-Asian, the physical appearance will stand out no matter what.

In America, the culture and mass media is American-Caucasian centric. i.e. if we look at "The Bachelor" TV show, it's usually a white male with a cast of mostly white women, with a few non-white minorities sprinkled here and there.

In China the dating shows are similar, you have a Chinese bachelor, and a cast of mostly Han-Chinese women with some non-Han women (Thai, Korean, Russian, etc). For example:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jas6KX0 ... re=related[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCD5lTqP ... re=related[/youtube]

However, the difference between US show and China show is that the US show almost always ends with the white male pairing with the white female, versus the China one shows Chinese bachelor choosing Russian college student (studying in China), Korean bachelor (from South Korea, working in China) choosing ethnic Chinese girl, Singapore guy choosing a Thai girl, and so on. Also, US dating shows automatically assume the bachelor will end up with one of the girls, versus the one in China that I'm posting, have cases where the guy simply opted not to accept any and walked out.

Here's an episode with an American immigrant to China:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So3VpaLh ... re=related[/youtube]

S. Korean immigrants to China successfully courted Chinese girls: (by immigrant, I mean these guys moved to China, learned to speak Chinese, and verbally stated that they want to marry a local girl and settle down in China)



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyG1XmcW ... re=related[/youtube]

Singapore-Chinese immigrant to China, successfully courted a Thai girl:



And here's a Chinese-American, who was given a choice of 3 girls near the end of the show but opted to concede without accepting any of them:




In this Chinese dating show, you can see success stories of 1st gen non-Chinese immigrants to China pairing up with Chinese girls, Chinese guys pairing up with non-Chinese immigrant girls to China, and oversea Chinese pairing up with locals. America is a country of immigrants, but I very rarely see 1st gen immigrant men on US dating shows. What conclusion you wish to draw from this is up to you, this is just a very small example with 1 dating show. If anyone wish to view more episodes, you can search "非诚勿扰" on youtube, or go to 风行网 (fushion.com).

Momopi this is a huge eye opener and yes, this is what I have heard from some people too. It is actually to be expected from a big country like China since one is not a threat.

In Japan, I would like to correct you, it is not a non Asian appearance, it is a non Japanese appearance that creates the reaction. If you look Thai or Korean, they pick up on that very quickly. Even Japanese Brazilians stick out very much. Next, Indians, whites or blacks. some Chinese may fit in on surface if they have a Japanese appearance but once they find out, they start sulking.

I lived and worked in Japan and speak and understand Japanese pretty well. They divide the world into the Nipponjin and Gaijin. American racial taxonomy and " tables" are irrelevant there.

You are right on with America - nation of immigrants my ass. An immigrant is not an American and never will be. If you are not born in the US, and you have an accent and look different, you are just not an American. It generally takes 2-3 generations or longer to be seen as an American when it comes to white people and only a hyphenated American when it comes to non white people.

So, in addition to racism in the US, there is also a nativism problem-not adequately addressed; and the ( non Anglo) foreign born population both legal and illegal and naturalized is all seen as non American by majority of people- the masses, that is. There are some very insidious social principles at work. For example , people never ask your citizenship, they ask "you where are you from ( originally) " or where were you born. And one is not a native son, one is not an American, if one is not born there. No matter how many years in the country, you will still be called by the name of the old country.Same with most Anglo countries actually. They give lip service to diversity and "nations of immigrants" and then talk shit about other people the wogs, the chinks, the japs, meaning all these legal immigrants who have settled in the country. And their kids.

I am talking about social discriminaton, not legal one. Legally the situation is better and people can run for office, become successful in many ways, but socially, the apartheid in these " immigrant"nations still sucks and yes, China seems to be doing quite well in that respect. And I am not surprised.

I must also say that Czarist Russia was the same way. It accepted lots of immigrants and all men married Russian girls and had few problems. They had friends and were generally treated like everyone else. There was only one condition, though- you had to convert to the Orthodoxy to be accepted and to become a Russian. Many did and were treated as such. German immigrants were promoted became generals in the imperial army. All had Russians wives. All of them! And one did not need to be native born to become a Czar.

In the US, I would say 99% of immigrants never have an American wife and do not mingle with Americans. Is it their fault? I don't think so.

Now returning to the video, it was about Hong Kong and the job and dating/schooling situation for Filipinos and Pakistanis, Indians, etc there. Not White people. I dont think white people are even part of the picture there.

America is a country of immigrants, but I very rarely see 1st gen immigrant men on US dating shows. What conclusion you wish to draw from this is up to you

OK, here is the conclusion that is up to me: in the US culture, a 1st generation non Anglo immigrant is no good, a subhuman; someone to look down upon, not good dating material; taking jobs away from the locals, too. Not a good person, not American and people will not like to see someone with an accent on TV who looks/sounds foreign. He should know his place- mix noodles or fix computers if he is an Oriental, work factories and make burritos if he is a Mex, run some ethnic restaurant and shut the f'ck up and not try and get the spot from the real Americans.

China seems to be doing better but again it does not have a huge population of legal/illegal/ naturalized people as the US to be the bogeyman for the masses. These non Chinese people pose no threat and are professional people who appear as good new members of society. Now if China had 10 % illegal immigrants coming over, then I guess things would change.

Oh, notice one thing- in the Chinese show the non Chinese do not look too dark. There is no African immigrant on them pairing up with a Chinese girl. And there is no Dravidian Indian, either. The American immigrant and the Russian girl are lily white and blue eyed. No Hispanics, no Muslim or Mongolian Siberians.

Russian girls are good- Russia is a friend- , white American men are also fashionable- they look good in movies. A Russian girl is bad in the US- whore, drunk mafiaslut, mail order bride. Russia is not a friend to the US, it is now a friend to China, though. A Russian girl is nice, but there is no Russian guy there. Hmm, I wonder why. There is no American woman. Both are unpopular, I guess.

The only foreigners allowed in US movies/,media are other Anglos- Canada, Oz, NZ, these are cool, same with Brits and Scandinavians. Everyone else sucks and should know their place.

ladislav wrote:Momopi this is a huge eye opener and yes, this is what I have heard from some people too. It is actually to be expected from a big country like China since one is not a threat.
In Japan, I would like to correct you, it is not a non Asian appearance, it is a non Japanese appearance that creates the reaction. If you look Thai or Korean, they pick up on that very quickly. Even Japanese Brazilians stick out very much. Next, Indians, whites or blacks. some Chinese may fit in on surface if they have a Japanese appearance but once they find out, they start sulking.
I lived and worked in Japan and speak and understand Japanese pretty well. They divide the world into the Nipponjin and Gaijin. American racial taxonomy and " tables" are irrelevant there.
<snip>
Oh, notice one thing- in the Chinese show the non Chinese do not look too dark. There is no African immigrant on them pairing up with a Chinese girl. And there is no Dravidian Indian, either. The American immigrant and the Russian girl are lily white and blue eyed. No Hispanics, no Muslim or Mongolian Siberians.
Russian girls are good- Russia is a friend- , white American men are also fashionable- they look good in movies. A Russian girl is bad in the US- whore, drunk mafiaslut, mail order bride. Russia is not a friend to the US, it is now a friend to China, though. A Russian girl is nice, but there is no Russian guy there. Hmm, I wonder why. There is no American woman. Both are unpopular, I guess.

I've corrected/updated my original post, it was not my intention to state that non-Asian appearance is the dominate factor of being foreign in Japan. Also, if we look at the Japanese word Gaijin (short for Gaikokujin), the exact same Kanji is used by both Japanese and Chinese to describe Caucasian westerners (外国人/Gaikokujin/WaiGuoRen). In Chinese the common slang is "Laowei" (old foreigner), which is roughly comparable to the Japanese "Gaijin-san". This slang is considered neutral by Chinese and not intended to be derogatory, but the foreigner on the receiving side may think otherwise (some would consider Gweilo to be very insulting).

China has its racism issues with ethnic nationalism and recent wars (i.e. anti-Japanese sentiment). Different ethnic groups in China exists because they had strong ethnic identity and fought hard against their neighbors. Just because the dominate Han Chinese conquered them doesn't mean they like to assimilate. In recent years there have been more inter-marriage between the different ethnic groups (i.e. Chinese-Tibetan), but that is also viewed as threatening by ethnic nationalists due to their smaller numbers and weaker socio-economic position. As for black Africans and dark skinned Indians, there are racism issues with dark skin and, the simple fact that there's simply too few of them in China. You won't find a lot of Mexicans in China due to lack of immigration from Mexico (and Latin American in general), and China has enough poor-er people to work as servants and nurses, so you won't find many Pinays except in HK. It should also be noted that I don't actually live in China, so you may get a better perspective speaking to someone who actually live there. I'm just another bloke watching a Chinese dating show over the internet or cable.

Here's an episode with an UK bloke in China: (watch from 8:00)




Here's an episode where the new girl #2 introduced herself as a single mother, divorced with 2 daughters.
New girl #7 introduced herself as an immigrant from Korea and recently naturalized Chinese citizen. I have yet to see an immigrant on US dating show being introduced as recently naturalized US citizen.
Girl #18 (see 4:30) is probably Russian? (not sure, you can probably tell better):


In part 2 of the episode, they have an oversea Chinese (born in HK) on the show. He described the differences between doing things the foreign way vs. Chinese way (see: 5:19), and they prepped a funny chart showing the foreign way going from point A to B in a direct line (left side in blue) vs. the Chinese way in a maze (right side in red). The host joked that Chinese are overly intelligent and have no where to go, so they go around in circles with their excess intelligence. This is pretty ironic considering TW & oversea Chinese consider Mainlanders to be "direct and rude":


This episode has a Japanese bachelor (about halfway through the episode), which caused some controversy on Chinese BBS forums. He was extremely polite on stage, which was well received by many as having good manners:


This episode features an ethic Vietnamese bachelor in China, who successfully courted a Beijing girl (note: Chinese web site, not Youtube link). I think he's the 2nd Vietnamese bachelor on the show so far, there was another one back in May this year:
http://bb.news.qq.com/a/20101226/000009.htm

There was a mixed Chinese/Vietnamese girl last year on the show, but she was taken by a bachelor within a few episodes:



Mongolian girl on the show:
http://img770.ph.126.net/st1un4nOBz-Abv ... 511327.jpg

Here's an episode that I watched couple weeks ago, it was aired on 10/2/2011:

S. Korean bachelor on the show:


40 year old short bald bachelor, had learning disabilities when he was young, and currently working as a social worker in youth education for kids with disabilities. He successfully courted a 23 year old preschool teacher on the show:


35 year old ethnic minority from Guangshi, member of the Zhuang tribe (壮族) (pop. 18 million). He's good at drawing and brought a portrait of his "ideal women" with him on the show. Unfortunately that was probably not a good thing to do and he was rejected. Unlike US dating shows, the Chinese dating show does not assume that you'd end up with someone. Many guys get rejected by all 24 girls and leave empty handed:


If anyone wants to watch all parts to the episode, search for "非诚勿扰 20111002". The episode from following week (10/09) is an "oversea Chinese" episode with guests from the US, 17 out of 24 girls are from USA (Chinese Americans & Chinese immigrants), and the rest are from China, Taiwan, Korea (#11), Japan (#23), Thailand (#13), and Canada (#6). The Chinese-American girls went to NYC to attend an audition to win their place in the show. #16 (Jennie) immigrated to the US at age 4 and spoke Chinese with a heavy accent. Some girls were escorted by their parents, who sat in the audience. This was quite a fun episode as the first bachelor showed off his singing skills, and girl #1 came out to play classical Chinese instrument:



In part 2 of the episode, the bachelor went on stage to dance with girl #4. But he ended up taking girl #22, a Chinese American lawyer from the US:



To view the rest of the 5-parts, search for "非诚勿扰 20111009" on YT,

Thanks for posting these momopi. I also remember last time you posted clips from that Taiwanese show where they interviewed foreign spouses which was also interesting.

I'm quite impressed with some of the mandarin skills of these non-chinese individuals. They speak far better mandarin than I do even though they learned fairly recently (6-10 years in China.) I have a pretty neutral (waisenren) accent but even the ABC's vocabulary/grammar blows mine away. It seems like he's a 1.5 gen Chinese-American though.

I like how they come up with a variety of men/women to participate.

By the way the ABC's sob story was kind of embarrassing. The girls were into him 24/24 until he started to get all maudlin with his mom making an appearance.

Matching asian-american women with asian-american men is totally boring to watch though mainly because AA women have more or less the same issues as American women and it's predictable as to what they will do and say.

One needs to keep in mind that the naturalized citizens in the Chinese show are either from a whiter country or a richer country. There are no Bangladeshis or Pakistanis there. A Thai would be OK because they are not too dark and are richer than China. All the discrimination shown in HK was against Pakistanis and Filipinos. None of them in the show either.

If the US had naturalized Swedish people in such shows- actually I remember a show where there was a blond Swedish girl and the audience reacted very well and everyone thought she was cool.

Not many countries are richer than the US, but those who are, their citizens are well accepted- Canadians are doing fine, look at Bieber and Michael Jay Fox. Aussies, NZers are well received- nice British - like accent.

Not many of them are wanting to become naturalized citizens, though.

But a bunch of recently naturalized Mexicans, VNese and Filipinos would be offensive to the great American mid west. They are taking away jobs.

Russians and Germans would also be absent.

The producers of the show did a 2 episode Chinese American special. The first episode was aired on 10/09/2011, and the 2nd episode was posted on 10/16/211. Here's the URL's to the 2nd episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLIZP67GO3g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1XML6Ag0HY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnI85UICcqM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSijs0yvbNs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nas6O1ubiiE

For those unfamiliar with this dating show, the English title is "You are the one", though the actual Chinese title translates to "If you're not sincere, don't bother". The series started in Jan 2010 and is aired weekly. They put 24 single women on stage and bring in the bachelors. Each girl has a "light" that she can turn off, and if she doesn't like the guy, she can hit the switch to turn the light off. If all 24 lights are off, the guy is out. But if multiple girls have their lights on by end of the segment, the guy gets to go up and turn off the lights on the girls that he doesn't want. Usually he thanks each girl in turn for their consideration before turning the light off. If the guy did really well and had 22 out of 24 lights on on the initial pass (first impression) and successfully courted one of the girls, he is rewarded with an all expense paid romantic cruise for two to the Aegean Sea & vacation in Greece. On average the marriage rate of couples from this dating show is ~40%, it's said that those who went on the cruise to Greece has much higher success rate. ;p

The Chinese American episodes held their interviews in NYC, so many of the participants are from the East Coast. I don't think they've done a West Coast / Los Angles episode yet, but I think that will happen sooner or later. Since the intended audience is domestic market in China, seeing Chinese Americans on the show is a change from the usual program. They also did oversea Chinese episode on Australia and Europe. Here's a Chinese-Australian episode. I think girl #15 (16:10) is an airhead:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLCQKUQ ... ure=relmfu[/youtube]

The station that aired this show did so well on the ratings, they decided to do a spin-off show in June 2011 "不见不散" (Be there or be square). This new show accepts applicants that failed on the "You are the One" dating show and give them a second chance. It's the same producers so even the host is the same person. In this new show the format is much more personal, where the host selects 3 girls to go out with the guy on separate dates. This is not a "happy ending" show and the fail rate is quite high. The host acts as a relationship/dating counselor and tries to educate the men when they make bad mistakes on the date. The show is also filmed partly outdoors in different cities of China, so you can see the cities too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO334xRroow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0qc40DE ... re=related (Nanjing)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxfloon_ ... re=related

ladislav wrote:One needs to keep in mind that the naturalized citizens in the Chinese show are either from a whiter country or a richer country. There are no Bangladeshis or Pakistanis there. A Thai would be OK because they are not too dark and are richer than China. All the discrimination shown in HK was against Pakistanis and Filipinos. None of them in the show either.

There's also the consideration that Bangladesh, Pakistani, Uighur, Hui, Dongxiang, etc. are Muslims. Although Chinese Muslims are not as conservative as Saudi's, Islamic morals and Chinese dating show is not compatible. Intermarriages do occur but like I said previously, that's a sensitive subject where religion and ethnic nationalism get into the mix.

Repatriate wrote:Thanks for posting these momopi. I also remember last time you posted clips from that Taiwanese show where they interviewed foreign spouses which was also interesting.
I'm quite impressed with some of the mandarin skills of these non-chinese individuals. They speak far better mandarin than I do even though they learned fairly recently (6-10 years in China.) I have a pretty neutral (waisenren) accent but even the ABC's vocabulary/grammar blows mine away. It seems like he's a 1.5 gen Chinese-American though.
I like how they come up with a variety of men/women to participate.
By the way the ABC's sob story was kind of embarrassing. The girls were into him 24/24 until he started to get all maudlin with his mom making an appearance.

If the applicant couldn't speak Chinese, he/she wouldn't qualify in the first place. There are enough extroverts that it shouldn't be difficult to attract candidates for a TV dating show.

This guy from the US studied Chinese in college. He's only 24 but lived in China for 7 months and hired a tutor. IMO he speaks Chinese fairly well for someone who lived in China for less than 1 year:

^^^

The format is interesting but I can't stand watching shows with Asian-American girls. They are essentially American women and it becomes more or less a U.S./western orientated reality show. That ruins the whole thing i'd prefer just having AA men on it and a panel of mostly Asian women. The questions and situations are much more interesting. Since the Chinese women often have interesting things to say and observe about cultural differences.

BTW, you can watch the latest episodes on the show's web site, complete with all the commercials. ;p

http://fcwr.jstv.com/

momopi wrote:Chinese culture is Han ethnocentric, but more open to accepting immigrants and assimilation than the Japanese. If you're born Korean and moved to China, learned the language, adopt local culture and use your Hanja name, you'd be fairly well accepted. The same would not be true in Japan. It was difficult for Zainichi Koreans to be accepted in the 20th century, and 1st generation immigrants today would probably still face many difficulties. In China a 1st gen Korean immigrant can gain better acceptance than he would in Japan, but if the immigrant is non-Asian, the physical appearance will stand out no matter what.

I heard its easier for Koreans to assimilate in Japan recently as some of the younger generation really likes kpop. I believe some of those Zainichis struggled because they didn't show effort to adapt to Japanese culture and showed too much Korean pride.