Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

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Cornfed
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Post by Cornfed »

Here are a couple of good Fred Reed articles on the subject:

http://www.fredoneverything.net/Screwed.shtml
http://www.fredoneverything.net/Zimmerman.shtml
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Winston
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Winston »

Shocking racist radio rant about Trayvon Martin



Source:
http://northwestfront.org/2013/07/radio ... 18th-2013/
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Cornfed
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Cornfed »

Winston wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:06 pm
Shocking racist radio rant about Trayvon Martin
Source:
http://northwestfront.org/2013/07/radio ... 18th-2013/
If I had have known you wanted this kind of stuff on the forum I would have put in on myself, but I would have thought you would have banned me for being racist.
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Winston
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Winston »

Cornfed wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Winston wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:06 pm
Shocking racist radio rant about Trayvon Martin
Source:
http://northwestfront.org/2013/07/radio ... 18th-2013/
If I had have known you wanted this kind of stuff on the forum I would have put in on myself, but I would have thought you would have banned me for being racist.
Well I'm not encouraging anyone to post hateful comments about blacks. I posted that link because its funny and deranged and entertaining to listen to. Kind of like listening to Christian fundamentalists talk about Satan and the battle to save souls, etc. lol
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Cornfed
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Cornfed »

Winston wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:45 pm
Cornfed wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:16 pm
Winston wrote:
July 11th, 2020, 9:06 pm
Shocking racist radio rant about Trayvon Martin
Source:
http://northwestfront.org/2013/07/radio ... 18th-2013/
If I had have known you wanted this kind of stuff on the forum I would have put in on myself, but I would have thought you would have banned me for being racist.
Well I'm not encouraging anyone to post hateful comments about blacks. I posted that link because its funny and deranged and entertaining to listen to. Kind of like listening to Christian fundamentalists talk about Satan and the battle to save souls, etc. lol
Oh BTW, I agree 100% with the video, and this is the kind of thing I would be posting if you and others allowed me to.
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Winston
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Winston »

Cornfed, i never said u couldn't post racist links or white nationalist links. I don't consider white nationalism to be racist as long as they dont preach hate or violence and only preach preservation of their culture and values.

What i said was that you couldn't do was to keep attacking black members here like contrarian expatriate with racial insults constantly. No one likes that. Would you like it if someone kept attacking you with racial slurs all the time? Try to have empathy.
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

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The essential problem with the incident is that evidently Florida law allows someone to be carrying a gun and without the requirement to do everything reasonably possible to avoid conflict. This is ridiculous - the only valid reason to carry a gun is for personal protection, and if someone feels he needs to have such a gun for that protection, he shouldn't be causing a commotion as a "neighborhood watchman". If he feels that strongly to be such a watchman, and to hound folks he considers "suspicious", he should do it without carrying, and deal with the consequences.
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Cornfed »

MatureDJ wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 2:39 pm
The essential problem with the incident is that evidently Florida law allows someone to be carrying a gun and without the requirement to do everything reasonably possible to avoid conflict. This is ridiculous - the only valid reason to carry a gun is for personal protection, and if someone feels he needs to have such a gun for that protection, he shouldn't be causing a commotion as a "neighborhood watchman". If he feels that strongly to be such a watchman, and to hound folks he considers "suspicious", he should do it without carrying, and deal with the consequences.
So if people have the temerity to defend their neighbours they deserve to be murdered? WTF?
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by MatureDJ »

Cornfed wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 3:40 pm
MatureDJ wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 2:39 pm
The essential problem with the incident is that evidently Florida law allows someone to be carrying a gun and without the requirement to do everything reasonably possible to avoid conflict. This is ridiculous - the only valid reason to carry a gun is for personal protection, and if someone feels he needs to have such a gun for that protection, he shouldn't be causing a commotion as a "neighborhood watchman". If he feels that strongly to be such a watchman, and to hound folks he considers "suspicious", he should do it without carrying, and deal with the consequences.
So if people have the temerity to defend their neighbours they deserve to be murdered? WTF?
Yes, folks should mind their own business, otherwise we'd have all sorts of crazy vigilantes. This is the reason we have the POLICE. Civilized society depends on the state having monopoly power of violence.
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Cornfed
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Cornfed »

MatureDJ wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 7:07 pm
Yes, folks should mind their own business, otherwise we'd have all sorts of crazy vigilantes.
Preventing you and yours from being victims of crime is literally minding your own business.
This is the reason we have the POLICE. Civilized society depends on the state having monopoly power of violence.
Nonsense, the idea that there is a "state" whose goons have a monopoly on force is a modern communist construct which is already obsolete given that it is very expensive to implement properly, hence the calls to defund the police. On the other hand, the right to defend yourself and others dates back millennia.
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

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Cornfed wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 7:31 pm
MatureDJ wrote:
September 11th, 2020, 7:07 pm
Yes, folks should mind their own business, otherwise we'd have all sorts of crazy vigilantes.
Preventing you and yours from being victims of crime is literally minding your own business.
This is the reason we have the POLICE. Civilized society depends on the state having monopoly power of violence.
Nonsense, the idea that there is a "state" whose goons have a monopoly on force is a modern communist construct which is already obsolete given that it is very expensive to implement properly, hence the calls to defund the police. On the other hand, the right to defend yourself and others dates back millennia.
Uh, the idea of state monopoly of violence has been around since the 16th Century, before the Age of Enlightenment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence

Defending oneself does not allow oneself to exact violence pre-emptively.
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Cornfed
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Cornfed »

MatureDJ wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 6:00 am
Uh, the idea of state monopoly of violence has been around since the 16th Century, before the Age of Enlightenment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monopoly_on_violence
A lot of modern communist ideas have precursors during that time period such as, for example, Levelers during the English Civil War, but generally they weren't taken very seriously. Most societies have multiple sources of authority - church, aristocracy, husbands, fathers etc. and in a republic the enforcement of the law is every man's business.
Defending oneself does not allow oneself to exact violence pre-emptively.
Under various circumstances it does, for example you can eject people from property on behalf of the occupier, make citizens arrests, detain people for breeching the peace and such. In any case this has no relevance to the Zimmerman case, where he was defending himself.
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Moretorque »

I can't believe that was over 8 years ago, as you become a geezer time flies.
Last edited by Moretorque on September 26th, 2020, 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by MatureDJ »

Cornfed wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 3:01 pm
In any case this has no relevance to the Zimmerman case, where he was defending himself.
Zimmerman was not "defending himself" when Martin was walking and minding his own business and Zimmerman decided to go start a commotion with him. Sure, Zimmerman was "defending himself" later on, after he had started the commotion. All I am saying is that the law should be such that anyone carrying must reasonably try to avoid any confrontation - at the very least, this means not invading someone else's space and yelling at him to question him about whatever. It would quite the loophole for a man who wants to kill another man to simply go up to that man while carrying and start a commotion to incite that other man to make the confrontation physical, and then after being assaulted, blow him away.
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Cornfed
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Re: Thoughts on the murder of Trayvon Martin

Post by Cornfed »

MatureDJ wrote:
September 17th, 2020, 12:46 pm
Cornfed wrote:
September 14th, 2020, 3:01 pm
In any case this has no relevance to the Zimmerman case, where he was defending himself.
Zimmerman was not "defending himself" when Martin was walking and minding his own business and Zimmerman decided to go start a commotion with him. Sure, Zimmerman was "defending himself" later on, after he had started the commotion. All I am saying is that the law should be such that anyone carrying must reasonably try to avoid any confrontation - at the very least, this means not invading someone else's space and yelling at him to question him about whatever. It would quite the loophole for a man who wants to kill another man to simply go up to that man while carrying and start a commotion to incite that other man to make the confrontation physical, and then after being assaulted, blow him away.
As I understand it, Zimmerman was simply following Martin around while waiting for police attendance. That is the best you can do. I was in this position many times as a rent-a-cop. Oh, but you say you want actual cops to be the only ones to do this. Well then you have to pay retention, pensions etc. and we simply can’t afford that as a society. Realistically, people need to defend their own communities like Zimmerman did.
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