Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Discuss racial, ethnic and multicultural issues. Warning: The topics here are likely to be taboo, so if you are easily offended, you are better off not participating here.
Moretorque
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/thinking but Asians can only memorize/repeat/copy?

Post by Moretorque »

From what I can see I think the Japanese are just as clever as the Europeans, I think a combination of things in Europe just lead to them inventing more in a short period.

The West appears to be coming to it's end unless the people wake up like fast but history has proven this is unlikely so more than likely the East will show what it's got this century.
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Winston
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/thinking but Asians can only memorize/repeat/copy?

Post by Winston »

Aren't I the most anti-Asian, Asian person that you guys have ever seen or met? lol

Which Asian person out there makes so many anti-Asian statements as much as I do? lol

Don't I qualify yet for the term "self-hating Asian"? Or is that label reserved only for Asian American women who dislike Asian guys and only like White guys? lol
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/thinking but Asians can only memorize/repeat/copy?

Post by HappyGuy »

Winston wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 4:24 pm
Aren't I the most anti-Asian, Asian person that you guys have ever seen or met? lol
Your mistake was going to the Philippines years ago and not going to Hollywood to become a "comedian" who talks about "stereotypes" and "cultural differences".

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publicduende
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/thinking but Asians can only memorize/repeat/copy?

Post by publicduende »

HappyGuy wrote:
August 18th, 2018, 8:38 pm
Winston wrote:
August 17th, 2018, 4:24 pm
Aren't I the most anti-Asian, Asian person that you guys have ever seen or met? lol
Your mistake was going to the Philippines years ago and not going to Hollywood to become a "comedian" who talks about "stereotypes" and "cultural differences".
I think @HappyGuy hit the nail, @Winston. Your obsession with distancing yourself from other Asians is almost comedic.
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Re: Why are whites creative/innovative but Asians can only repeat/memorize/copy?

Post by Contrarian Expatriate »

Winston wrote:
December 21st, 2017, 6:15 pm
A video rant I made long ago about how Asians can't think outside the box or for themselves and how they lack imagination and creativity, using Bruce Lee as one example. lol



Description:

Have you noticed that Asians are usually unable to think outside the box, think for themselves, or formulate new ideas and theories? Why is that? Of course, I'm a rare exception. I'm one of the few Asians in this world who is able to formulate new ideas and theories. Hence I'm very rare and unique. And if you know me, you should appreciate that. :) That's why my close friends will tell you that my soul is more European than Asian.

A list of my unique accomplishments:
http://www.happierabroad.com/Winston-Wu ... hments.htm

Quotes from friends and fans who say I'm the most freethinking Asian they've ever met.
http://www.happierabroad.com/Quotes-Abo ... ton-Wu.htm
I am in Hong Kong now Winston and I have to confess that you are correct. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I get the sense that people here function like drones.

Hong Kong, for all of its high IQ credentials, has been a disappointment. It is dirty, customer service is average at best, and it seems that this place is one big commercial hustle. The other thing I noticed for all of this place's wealth, the people have a very poor standard of living and young people wish to leave. Even wealthy people live in boxes of apartments due to the lack of relative space. People here don't seem very happy and they are furious that mainland Chinese are making the place more and more crowded.

Count me as not a fan and that will teach me to have such high expectations for a high IQ society because it means nothing here.
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/thinking but Asians can only memorize/repeat/copy?

Post by Moretorque »

It all just be modified Black Man....
Last edited by Moretorque on June 26th, 2020, 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why are whites creative/innovative but Asians can only repeat/memorize/copy?

Post by Winston »

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
December 14th, 2018, 5:16 am
I am in Hong Kong now Winston and I have to confess that you are correct. I can't quite put my finger on it, but I get the sense that people here function like drones.

Hong Kong, for all of its high IQ credentials, has been a disappointment. It is dirty, customer service is average at best, and it seems that this place is one big commercial hustle. The other thing I noticed for all of this place's wealth, the people have a very poor standard of living and young people wish to leave. Even wealthy people live in boxes of apartments due to the lack of relative space. People here don't seem very happy and they are furious that mainland Chinese are making the place more and more crowded.

Count me as not a fan and that will teach me to have such high expectations for a high IQ society because it means nothing here.
Well I'm glad we agree on at least one thing. I'm glad I'm not the only one that's sane and sees the obvious about Hong Kong - that its very cold and soulless, and the people look very grouchy and miserable and act very rude too. It's also very expensive and overpriced, which further adds to the negatives. So on top of the rudeness and grouchiness in HK, you get overly high prices as well, a horrible combo. What's good about HK then, if its very unfriendly, expensive and crowded? lol. Why don't travel sites and TV shows ever tell brutally honest truths like we do? Most people who go to HK will not be that brutally honest about these things. But then again, isn't New York City like that too?
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by Winston »

Note: Keep in mind that generalizations about Asians tend to be accurate, and the "we are all unique individuals" claim doesn't apply. Because 99.99999 percent of Asians tend to copy each other like clones with a hive mind, like bees in a bee hive, and don't have true individuality or distinct personalities like westerners do. But are very bland and uniform. Hence their traits are obvious and apparent, not hidden at all. This is true even in the US if you think about it, like in the SF Bay Area where I grew up. No offense to any Asians here of course.

Even Asian movie actors look and act like clones of each other with no unique distinctive faces or colorful personalities like famous white actors have, if you think about it. Because conformity is in their blood and DNA, as well as practicality -- since the average Asian only cares about food and making money and never seeks meaning or struggled with existential issues.

I've never understood that, but then again I'm not an NPC. That's why I've never had a role/function in this matrix, like those with aspergers often feel too when they say that they feel like everyone is an actor with a script and role in this world, except them. Who knows, maybe aspies are users, not NPCs, like in the movie Tron and Tron Legacy? If you aren't created by the matrix or grid, then you have no role or function assigned to you since your consciousnss is from outside the matrix and not generated by it? That's the only way I can explain it. But of course, most will not understand or resonate with this, only a very few will.
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by MrMan »

Asia is a varied place, but speaking generally, east Asian cultures tend to value harmony. Western cultures have become rather individualistic. Standing out in a crowd, doing something different is not looked down on. Individualist cultures seem to be a good place to nurture creativity.

But there is plenty of innovation coming out of Asia, also. Innovation is not just coming up with something totally new, like inventing the light bulb. There are incremental innovations in process technology, etc. The Japanese Toyota factory took Demmings statistics and quality control methods and added that with the Japanese philosophy of continual improvement, harmony between management and workers and between different companies and developed the Toyota production system. Lean manufacturing grew out of some of these types of techniques. This has revolutionized manufacturing around the world. There isn't a new light bulb to look at that gathers a lot of attention, but it is important innovation, that built on other innovation.

There is a lot of innovation with microprocessors that is so technical most of us are not familiar with it. Samsung, in Korea, has developed a lot of innovation. It is not fair to say Asians do not come up with any innovation at all.
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by Gali »

A Japanese Philosophy That Will IMPROVE Your Life – Kaizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnLbAKA78D8
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by shawnberwick »

Hi @Winston,

What IMO gets lost in nature vs nurture debates IMO is the role of cognitive habits and philosophy on nations. I believe that different races have different temperaments due to genetic pre-disposition, but as much as I believe liberals and Marxist over emphasize the role of culture, I believe that 'race realists' overemphasize the role of genetics. Also both don't seem to believe in (or minimize) the ability to self-condition or self reprogram (i.e. exercise free will).

My case is twofold;

Lack of Asian creativity is primarily due to cultural conservatism, and not genetics.

Lack of Asian creativity is relative, dependent on what a person values.


Cultural conservatism

A partial explanation is that some researchers have concluded that cultural conservatives tend to score low on openness to new experiences on the big 5 personality test. Creative people score so highly on openness to new experiences that it is considered a predictor of creative pursuits. Cultural conservativism is about preservation, not innovation. From what I've heard and read about many eastern cultures cultural conservatism has become a dominant ethos in a number of eastern nations, so I think that has killed creativity within the culture.

2 examples of how cultural conservatism can destroy creativity in a region is looking at the history of European and Arab nations, and then Asia:

European creativity.

Ancient Greek and Romans were famous for their architecture, engineering feats, and art. Ancient Greece had a flourishing philosophical culture, which heavily influences the world to this day. These were cultures that were high in openness to new experience (with notable periods where it was heavily punished to question political authority).

During the medieval period Christianity took over and cultural conservatism was heavily politically and culturally enforced. Openess to new experience dwindled, and philosophy and culture was large stagnant. Western creativity was weak during that period, I think even the genetic determinists (race realists) would agree?

The then renaissance began in the 14th century, where wealthy people began commissioning artists to create spectacular works. (I believe - as do many others - that the power of art and design to influence consciousness is underrated by the masses, but well known by marketers and propagandists.) During the renaissance their was a re-emergence of scholars turning back to the works of the Greeks and Romans, as well as Arab philosophers and scientists, and not solely focusing on the works of Christians scholars. This movement began a mass cultural inquiry and criticism, leading to Lutheranism which cemented Europe's movement away from the Dogma of Catholicism and the authority of Catholic leaders.

The Renaissance and Lutheranism, shifted Western society back to openness to new experience, and gave reignited Western creativity in art, philosophy, and science.

If Western creativity is genetic, how do people explain the incredible difference between pre medieval times, medieval times, and post medieval times in terms of creativity and innovation?

The key, I believe, is pre and post medieval times had where openness to new experience was encouraged by money and culture.


Arab creativity.

Cycles of high creativity to low creativity might be common amongst regions/civilizations. Just like Europeans had highs and lows, so too did Arabs. At one point in time Arabs were incredible innovators when it came to science, math, and philosophy. However, at some point cultural conservatism took over and things stagnated and haven't returned.

That seems to be a theme amongst European, Arab and Asian cultures. They have periods of high creativity, but then periods of high cultural conservatism. Perhaps some of the people within the culture believe that the key to the flourishing society is something in the currently existing customs, and so need to be rigidly preserved? Whereas the key is likely a culture of openness to experience, which cultural conservatism by definition minimizes.


Innovation and Conformity

Why many Eastern culture and communities seem to descend into rigid conformism is a mystery.

Capitalism IMO has seriously issues, but one of the great things about capitalism is that innovation is welcomed if it can make money. So if you can 'prove' or convince to people that breaking a boundary can bring profit then people will listen. Which is possibly why Japan, Hong Kong's kung fu/action cinema, and Korea were/are so much more creative than mainland China, Malaysia, Thailand, etc.


Historical and modern examples of Asian innovation and creativity.

Eastern cultures were highly innovative for a very long time, e.g. Taoism, Hinduism and Buddhism. Buddhism, Taoism and Hinduism contain advice, methods and principles that have been incorporated into western psychotherapy due to their effectiveness. Taoists and Hindus developed complex spiritual and medical traditions based on what is only being explored and beginning to be taken seriously by scientists now, namely the biofield and fascia. A number of Buddhist practices have been concluded to be extremely useful for mental health, and have heavily influenced therapy modern modalities like Dialectical Behavioural Therapy and Compassion Focused Therapy. Transcendental meditation came from Hinduism, and Mindfulness meditation from Buddhism, and modern research has concluded that they have positive benefits on cognitive and mental health.


Martial arts.

Eastern martial arts embraced weapons, and using multiple parts of the body.

Japan had a number of creative innovators who created martial arts like Muay Thai (from Muay Boran), Sport/contact Karate, Sport/contact Kenpo, and Judo (from traditional Japanese Jiu Jitsu). They innovated from traditions by creating a sport, and then refining their techniques.

Japanese Karate fighters fought Muay Thai practitioners from Thailand, to test their martial arts against each other. Which then created modern kickboxing.

A western catch wrestler called Karl Gotch went to Japan and taught pro wrestlers catch wrestling, Japanese students of his combined catch wrestling and Kenpo, to create the sport of shoot fighting.

A Japanese Judo fighter went to Brazil and taught the Gracie family Judo. The Gracie family focused on the ground fighting and created Brazilian Jiu jitsu, and then issued open challenges to other martial arts practitioners in what was called Vale Tudo.

Shoot fighting and Vale Tudo were the precursors to MMA as a sport, which all came directly or indirect through the creativity of Japanese martial artists. The first UFC featured kickboxers, shoot fighters, and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioners - practitioners that were used to fighting people from different styles, thanks to Asian fighters willingness to fight people from different styles in a sport. MMA wouldn't would exist without Asian martial artists creativity.


Japanese Art and technology.

The Japanese are extremely creative. Anyone who has watched or read Anime and Manga will understand that the story telling is usually far more nuanced and thematic than Western story telling.

Japanese horror films are remade and influence western horror.

Technology in Japan and Schenzen China

Also, from people who have been to Japan say that technologically there are things happening regarding integrating technology into daily life - for better or worse - in urban Japan and Shenzhen which are years ahead of other nations.

Hong Kong action movies.

Hong Kong action movies gave birth to some of the most creative editing, choreography and directing seen in the action movie genre. IMO Western movies are usually terrible when it comes to hand to hand or weapon action scenes (though great when it comes to big action set pieces involving buildings and vehicles). John Wick was so popular seemingly because they basically took what 80s Hong Kong movies were doing.

(A great video about the creativity of Hong Kong action movies editing, directing and choreography, and how it was so damn good is called; Why 80s Hong Kong Action Movies KICKED ASS!... You'll see the influence it had on John Wick, Mission Impossible and the Matrix.)


Korea.

I'm guessing someone reading is going to argue that KPOP is just stealing RNB and pop, but IMO they've taken things to another level when it comes to music videos and choreography. From what I've seen of their music videos in many ways they have surpassed what is coming out of the West, so they aren't merely copying.

Korean cinema is also making waves amongst movie enthusiasts for it's holistic story telling.


Are Asians creative?

If a person values Martial arts, Art, and Healthcare then I believe even rudimentary research will lead a person to conclude that Asians can be incredibly creative. But if they will be creative depends on if their cultural conservatism is a dominant part of the culture, and if financers are willing to fund creatives.

For example, a lot of people complain about the negative effects of Tik Tok and Instagram (I agree there are many), but as someone who is a fan of photography, cinematography, editing, and comedy, what some Gen Zers are doing is truly astounding. Many of them display an incredible amount of creativity when it comes to aesthetics and comedy. They are incentivize through status and money to be creative. China essentially has stifled the populations ability to be open to new experience by shutting down their exposure to new experiences, through not allowing them access to an open internet. One of the reasons why you see Gen Zers displaying high levels of creativity is partially because they are exposed to so many inspirations, including from Asian sources like K Pop music videos, and Anime. Chinese people are essentially having their creativity stifled.

Education also seems to be an issue what seems to be emphasized in education is rote memorization (especially in China) along with extremely long hours of studying (especially in China), which trains their young minds not to be creative.



Regarding the argument that Asians can only innovate or be creative after they steal...

Some Greek scholars took from Egyptian scholars, but that doesn't invalidate the creativity and innovation found in Greek scholarship.

Thomas Aquinas took from Arab scholars, but that doesn't invalidate the creativity and innovation found in Thomas Aquinas' works.

Some renaissance scholars took from Arab scholars, but that doesn't invalidate the creativity and innovation found in Renaissance scholars works.
Last edited by shawnberwick on April 24th, 2022, 6:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by WilliamSmith »

@Winston, you're smart so I'm sure your social observations have something to them, but let me try to convince you sometime that this isn't the case that "Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat" LOL: The Chinese are some of the most dynamic innovators in history, at minimum since the Zhou Dynasty and Warring States period (and I would guess even earlier since there's tons of both unknown and 'renegade' history we don't usually see in establishment history books, too), and then again with amazing homeruns in innovation and creativity in the Han dynasty and many more after that.

I've been totally blown away by Chinese history and culture since I was little and started discovering cool stuff like "Monkey" (Arthur Waley translation, selections from the ancient classic Journey of the West), Chinese art and philosophy. I'll do a thread on it later, but I recall "Three Ways of Thought in Ancient China" by Waley was a good read in case you're interested.
(And I'm not one of these guys who's into this stuff because he's obsessed with Asian p***y, LOL. I do like the dragon ladies and tiger women as long as they're not too tiny and timid, but prefer big-ass women from other parts of the world as my first choice, even if I wouldn't be rude enough to the Asian ladies to tell them that. :mrgreen: )

Hey, you reminded me: I want to go and buy some Xi Dynasty landscape paintings before the ZOG escalates their WW3 project so much that the internet goes down and/or all Chinese imports become outlawed, like how I've heard the great classics of Russian literature or Tchaikovsky have been recently in the jewnited states while dumbass normies dump Russian vodka down the drain, LOL. :D
If you're serious about "taking the red pill," read thoroughly researched work by an unbiased "American intellectual soldier of our age" to learn what controlled media doesn't want you to see 8) : https://www.unz.com/page/american-pravda-series/
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by ArchibaultNew »

I think the problem is that we overestimate Asian talent. But since its what bring "middle-class style success" people seem to focus on them.

Asian intelligence is primarily in the field of "Spatial Intelligence" like science, engineering and architecture. For instance, the quiet guy in the classroom who is able to do well at a math test. Eventually this guy gets a engineering job that pays him a stable salary, but that's it. Who is quite and minds their own business, doesn't get involve in politics nor tries change the culture around him. This is why many people and whites especially, like Asians because they tend to mind their own business and not try to change society. Meanwhile, people who are either very talented or very outspoken tend to be disliked much more.

There are many other areas of life that can lead to success like "Verbal Skills," "Soft Skills," "Leadership skills." I don't think that Asians excel at these areas. For instance, some Asian actually struggle at language learning. While you have some groups who are able to quickly learn a language and climb up the ranks some Asian tend to not be as strong in English and prefer to communicate with their peers in their own language.
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Re: Why are Whites creative/innovative/distinctive, but Asians can only memorize/copy/repeat?

Post by shawnberwick »

@Winston

Have you checked out the works/talks of Malcolm Gladwell? He talks about the problem of capitalization, in that ways in that attaining exceptional success if largely due to capitalization by a society as well genetics and hardwork.

He talks about longitudal research where equally intelligent kids were tracked and they found the biggest predictor of success was not IQ, but having rich parents.

He also talks about how counter-intuitively scouts aren't selecting for talent when assessing athletes they are largely selecting for age. The oldest children tend to be the biggest, fastest and strongest. He cites ages of athletes and the evidence shows that they are clustered around being the oldest in their grades.

I'm explaining that to basically say Asian creativity is largely due to capitalization or lack of. In countries where capitalization is heavy Asians are renowned for creativity, e.g. the movie, TV, and music industry of Korea has taken the world by storm. Parasite, Squid Game, and Kpop are examples of Korean creativity that is internationally renowned. Anime and Japanese horror films. Hong Kong action films in the 80s, 90s, and Mainland Chinese films in the 00s (Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon, Hero, House of Flying Daggers, etc). Which clearly shows when resources, time and effort is giving to the arts in Asian nations they can excel.

Why do Jews run Hollywood and music? It's not because they are genetically endowed with being TV, movie and music executives, it's because the arts were an underdeveloped area of American industry when they emigrated and there were no gatekeepers, also because of nepotism. Malcolm Galdwell even talks about Jews, and says how their 'outsider' status helped creative a culture that allowed them to become in middle management positions. Because they are 'outsiders' and immigrants they are able to do things that go against the norms, like being assertive and building bridges between cultures, which is what happens in trade, international finance, politics, etc, for example.

Why do African-Americans (compared to other ethnicities of blacks) excel in music and athletics? Largely because of capitalization. Resources, time and effort are massively put into creating music and practicing athletics. Getting extra tuition to offset shitty public education is difficult when you grow up in low income household, but you can spend hours outside playing basketball, football, rapping, singing, playing instruments, etc, for low cost.

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