Feminism Responsible for the Fall of Rome

[wuxi]

I thought this was interesting.

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/ ... l-of-rome/

[Kunold]

Ya i saw that too, Ive thought pretty much the same thing. I think Winston would recognize this quote by Mark Twain : The past does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.

[well-informed]

You treat a western woman nice enough and eventually its going to end. You give women "power" and sooner or later it's gonna bite you in the ass somehow. Thanks feminism

[MrPeabody]

I wonder if feminism is a cause or a symptom. It's seems that as a general rule, material success leads to all kinds of vices, including feminism. In ancient Rome, women of the upper class were bored house wives with slaves doing all the work. Similarly, in the 1960s automatics appliances - dishwasher, vacuum cleaner, and so forth - were the modern equivalent of slaves, also creating bored women with time on their hands to create feminism. I remember reading an account of a woman's life in Victorian England and the houses were so dusty that a woman would spend all day dusting the house and then the next day the dust would be there again and she would have to dust all over again - an effective way to keep women busy and out of trouble.

[globetrotter]

I think that a rigorous study of history back to 6,000 BC will reveal that most empires collapse due to the loosening of fiscal policy and the loosening of restrictions upon women. This is why China is the way it is - females are super feminine even when you encounter one that says she is 'not reserved' and does not act so for men. 8,000 years of having a dozen or more empires implode will teach you to keep them in line.

Same with the ME. They let it happen a few times and learned their lesson. Most of the male-friendly policies of Islam predate that religion and are in fact local customs set onto scripture to make it more acceptable. They were keeping their females in check long before 650 AD.

Let the women vote, they take over, spend all the money, and the empire goes *poof*.

Then some masculine culture rides in and takes over.

The Mongols are well rested. They might be up for it...

[wuxi]

Then some masculine culture rides in and takes over.

The Mongols are well rested. They might be up for it...

Thats an interesting point. Unofficially, Mexico is the biggest threat to the US, its also a much more masculine culture.

[Winston]

I thought this was interesting.

http://roissy.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/ ... l-of-rome/

That link and blog no longer exists. The article has been reposted here:

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2010/12 ... l-of-rome/

The article is very good in the comparisons and parallels it draws. I'll paste it below in case it gets removed again. Here it is:

"Unfortunately, feminism and future is an oxymoron (or fortunately, depending on your point-of-view), as it seems to be unsustainable on the long run.

Based on past history, it appears that a civilization that embraces feminist values will cease to exist in just a few centuries. This is why we have never seen a feminist civilization aside from very short spans at the end of the Roman empire and possibly a few other more ancient civilizations.

Reading the history of the Roman Empire brings such glaring similarities with our own civilization, it is as if human social dynamics are literally stuck in a cycle that repeats every couple thousand years (there were two matriarchical, extremely advanced civilizations: one at the end of the Roman empire, 2000 years ago, one possibly at the end of Babylon, 4000 years ago).

For those who enjoy history, here is a short recap of social changes in Rome, 2 millenia ago (most historians focus on military and political facts, but I find the social aspects just as fascinating):

~5 century BC: Roman civilization is a a strong patriarchy, fathers are liable for the actions of their wife and children, and have absolute authority over the family (including the power of life and death)

~1 century BC: Roman civilization blossoms into the most powerful and advanced civilization in the world. Material wealth is astounding, citizens (i.e.: non slaves) do not need to work. They have running water, baths and import spices from thousands of miles away. The Romans enjoy the arts and philosophy; they know and appreciate democracy, commerce, science, human rights, animal rights, children rights and women become emancipated. No-fault divorce is enacted, and quickly becomes popular by the end of the century.

~1-2 century AD: The family unit is destroyed. Men refuse to marry and the government tries to revive marriage with a “bachelor tax”, to no avail. Children are growing up without fathers, Roman women show little interest in raising their own children and frequently use nannies. The wealth and power of women grows very fast, while men become increasingly demotivated and engage in prostitution and vice. Prostitution and homosexuality become widespread.

~3-4 century AD: A moral and demographic collapse takes place, Roman population declines due to below-replacement birth-rate. Vice and massive corruption are rampant, while the new-born Catholic Religion is gaining power (it becomes the religion of the Empire in 380 AD). There is extreme economic, political and military instability: there are 25 successive emperors in half a century (many end up assassinated), the Empire is ungovernable and on the brink of civil war.

~5 century AD: The Empire is ruled by an elite of military men that use the Emperor as a puppet; due to massive debts and financial problems, the Empire cannot afford to hire foreign mercenaries to defend itself (Roman citizens have long ago being replaced by mercenaries in the army), and starts “selling” parts of the Empire in exchange for protection. Eventually, the mercenaries figure out that the “Emperor has no clothes”, and overrun and pillage the Empire.

Humanity falls back into the Bronze Age (think: eating squirrel meat and living in a cave); 12 centuries of religious zilotry (The Great Inquisition, Crusades) and intellectual darkness follow: science, commerce, philosophy, human rights become unknown concepts until they are rediscovered again during the Age of Enlightenment in 17th century AD.

Regarding the Babylonian civilization (~2,000 BC), we have relatively few records, but we do know that they had a very advanced civilization because we found their legislative code written down on stone tablets (yes, they had laws and tribunals, and some of today’s commercial code can even be traced back to Babylonian law). They had child support laws (which seems to indicate that there was a family breakdown), and they collapsed presumably due to a “moral breakdown” figuratively represented in the Bible as the “Tower of Babel” (which was inspired by a real tower). Interesting and controversial anecdote: some claim that the Roman Catholic Religion is nothing more than a rewriting and adaptation of an ancient Babylonian religion!

You might say Roman cultural elites experienced Robin Hanson’s switch from a farmer to a forager society. How’d that turn out for everyone?

Let’s examine the parallels more closely.

~5 century BC Rome = ~1700 – 1920 America. The family unit is essentially “father knows best”, and slutting around by women is considered the height of shameful behavior, (as is cadding about by men). Monogamy is held up as the ideal arrangement without exception. (The “Wild West” might be an exception to the general rule of the day, as whoring and hell-raising were widespread in the frontier.) Lessers look up to their betters as exemplars of moral rectitude.

~1 century BC Rome = ~1920 – 1970 America. America is rising to the height of her power, a hyperpower being born. An economic and military power heretofore unseen in all recorded history. While the world digs out from under the rubble of consecutive wars and Communist pogroms, we have a battalion of aircraft carriers, a largely homogeneous population, and cheap housing for everyone willing to put in an honest day’s work. But the poison pill has been swallowed; the suffrage movement achieves its main goal, and the dark shroud of the equalist era is about to descend. In academic halls and classrooms, lessers are pedestalized, while betters are denigrated.

~1-2 century AD Rome = 1970-2000 America. The scourge of single momhood, free and easy divorce, child support laws, majority female colleges, DADT repealed, gay marriage, game, etc etc ad infinitum. In short, the ultimate expression of anti-discrimination, anti-received wisdom, individualist ideology, (ironically buttressed by the groupthink of diversity mongers.) Lessers ignore their betters, who in turn renege on their traditional responsibility to act as examples for the lessers.

~3-4 century AD Rome = 2000-2010 America. (You’ll notice America’s progression through the stages of empire is much faster than was Rome’s. This is the blessing — or curse — of high tech mass communication.) The native stock of America, (specifically, the betters of that stock), have stopped having kids. Vice and corruption are on the rise. (See: Chicago, CRA, Goldman Sachs, neocon lies, Enron, Madoff… I could go on.) Economic and political instability are the order of the day. While America’s presidents aren’t being assassinated, our elections have been nailbiters since 2000, and partisanship is at a fevered pitch. A reborn religion called Islam threatens to co-opt the sympathies of Western societies’ rootless rejects and masculinized women. Except for the thinnest upper class slice, betters now ape the habits of their lessers.

~5 century Rome = present day America. America is ruled by an elite of cognitive jackpot winners who use the President as a puppet. Massive debt and financial chicanery is practically enshrined in law. The army is less and less filled with the demographic slice of American citizens that used to make up its ranks. Mercenaries (UN peacekeepers, bribed warlords, arm-twisted allies, recent unassimilated immigrants, and the desperate, poor and out of shape) now make up a larger part of the tip of the spear that projects American power. America is in the process of slow-motion selling off of the Southwest to appease the millions of peasant illegals it cavalierly allowed to invade and settle in the country.

The Fall of Rome = ? America.

America is having her Tower of Babel moment, and the elites applaud it when they aren’t dithering over tax code arcana or the cultural impact of snarky late night TV hosts. These parallels with Rome’s fall should make you feel queasy about the future of this nation. But you’ll quickly push aside those depressing thoughts and switch on for another lightning round of Call of Duty, figuring it’s not your problem. Until it is. Do you feel lucky, punk?"

[Winston]

It turns out that Fschmidt was right. Feminism existed in Ancient Greece and Rome too, and spray up as those cultures were decaying and on the downfall. See below.

http://www.destroyzionism.com/2013/07/29/on-feminism/

Feminism in ancient Sparta

Feminism is not a modern invention, as many suppose. It existed in the ancient world—and its consequences were largely the same as now. A classic example is the Greek city-state of Sparta. It would shock most people to know that the famous warrior state was a paradise for women (relatively speaking) but it was. The Spartans granted educational and economic equality to women—and it contributed greatly to their eventual downfall. Spartan girls were given the same curricula as the boys and encouraged to engage in sports. They were also granted the right to hold property in their own name and inherit property on an equal basis. The Spartan economy was largely agricultural. While Spartan men were away on war Spartan women ran the household and controlled the finances. As much as 35-40 percent of Spartan land was owned by women some of whom became quite wealthy.

Sparta suffered quite a decline in its birth rate during its decline. Some of this was caused by economic factors, such as limiting reproduction to avoid splitting up estates and inheritances. But much more it was caused by the independence of women. Women were too busy being “liberated” to bother with the necessities of reproduction. In several centuries time, the total number of Spartiae (Spartan citizens as opposed to the helots and half-citizens) had declined from 7000 down to 700 (a 90 percent drop). Spartan sterility was remarked upon by many observers, particularly the Romans. The Spartans eventually reached the stage where they could no longer replace their losses in war. They were conquered by the Romans and ceased to exist. Spartan women were noted for their adulteries, particularly in their later stages of decline. There was no stigma attached to adultery and Spartan women could violate marital vows with relative impunity.

The similarity of all this to modern feminism is striking. The sterility, the free love, the equal educational and athletic opportunities, the female control of the economy are, in essence, the same trends observable today. And this brings up the key point: Totalitarian societies, past and present, do not enslave women, they liberate them. It was so in the ancient world; it was so in Jewish-Marxist Russia; it is true in the degenerating and decaying society of today.

Feminism and the fall of Rome

Feminism is not a new thing. Neither is it a sign of progress, as some imagine. It has flourished in the past with results as disastrous as presently. Many parallels exist between the feminist movement in the Roman Empire and the feminist movement of today. In the early days of the Republic, Rome was extremely patriarchal. The father, the paterfamilias, held the power of life and death over his wife and children. This system lasted until roughly the end of the Second Punic war against Carthage. Then began a vast movement for the “liberation” of women. The war had, in a sense, been won by women. The Romans had lost the entirety of their manpower in three consecutive defeats at the hands of Hannibal Barcas. The final disaster came at Cannae where 60,000 Romans were surrounded and stabbed in the back.

When women had grown back the dead soldiers and the final defeat of Hannibal was achieved at Zama, Roman women demanded freedom. One of the first concessions granted to them was the repeal of the law against luxury. The repeal of this law allowed Roman women to flaunt their wealth in public. No longer did they have to practice frugality as matron of the household. Next they acquired the right to enter minor political office and the right to practice infanticide and abortion. The Roman birth rate plummeted and vice and corruption spread among Roman men. A general strike against marriage ensued and the Emperor Augustus tried to revive reproduction with a bachelor tax. It was all to no avail. The situation became so outrageous that a famous Roman remarked that “We Romans, who rule the world, are ruled by our women.” The poet Juvenal remarked that the Roman aristocracy “divorced to marry and married to divorce”.

At the same time that this female liberation was taking place the Empire was overrun by swarms of slaves and racial aliens. Like many European cities today, it became difficult to find a genuinely Roman face in Rome. Diversity, like feminism, greatly contributed to the fall of the Empire. By Empire’s end, the legions which had conquered the world were half Roman and half barbarian (rather like the American army today, where increasing numbers of Third Worlders proliferate). When Rome fell, the female irresponsibility which had so greatly contributed to the Empire’s downfall made a severe impression on the fathers of the Christian Church. They made a point to yoke females and to impose the virtue of chastity. Given what they had witnessed during the fall of Rome the misogynist viewpoint of the early Christian elders can hardly be criticized.

The parallels of all this to modern day America can hardly be disputed. Although America is not Rome the same trends, particularly that of the female unleashed, are evident. Women, throughout history, are either the bedrock of a social structure or the dissolvers of the social structure. In early America, as in early Rome, women were baby makers and home makers. In latter day America, as in latter day Rome, women are imitation men and unborn baby killers. The consequences are the same, then as now.

I could go on and on. It wouldn’t take a race realist reactionary person but a few weeks of reading the “manosphere” to understand why white women will not join us [white nationalists] in large numbers. White men need to become “sex” realist too and understand white women will not change until things are in a bad way.

[Winston]

Interesting 2 and a half hour lecture by Stefan Molyneux about the Fall of Rome and modern parallels with America that we should learn from to prevent the coming collapse of the West, which Molyneux says is still reversible. This is very informative, interesting and educational.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh7rdCYCQ_U[/youtube]

[Taco]

The root cause of Rome's fall is a morally bankrupt population. Its a spiritual problem. This is what happens when a society stops worshipping God.

This includes...

1. very promiscuous population, men refusing to marry the women because of it
2. banks stealing depositors money
3. human sacrifice in the coliseum each day for entertainment (UFC fighting 2016)
4. heavy drinking
5. widespread theft and corruption by the political leaders
6. pleasure and entertainment focused culture
7. people are very arrogant and rude
8. birth rate drops off a cliff as women stop having children
9. women develop eating disorders

Basically, the same culture America has today. I don't expect it to last for much longer. It can be reversed but only after a major war or social upheaval.

US Twilight Zone of Pre-Collapse Just like Rome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX5JCC4aO4k

[Adama]

Interesting 2 and a half hour lecture by Stefan Molyneux about the Fall of Rome and modern parallels with America that we should learn from to prevent the coming collapse of the West, which Molyneux says is still reversible. This is very informative, interesting and educational.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh7rdCYCQ_U[/youtube]

You could listen to that smug bastard for 2.5 hours? I wonder how much Jewish supremacy he included, since you know, he is Jewish and thinks Jewish people are superior in IQ because of evolution.

[Citizen]

Feminism didn't destroy Rome.

[josephty2]

The root cause of Rome's fall is a morally bankrupt population. Its a spiritual problem. This is what happens when a society stops worshipping God.

This includes...

1. very promiscuous population, men refusing to marry the women because of it
2. banks stealing depositors money
3. human sacrifice in the coliseum each day for entertainment (UFC fighting 2016)
4. heavy drinking
5. widespread theft and corruption by the political leaders
6. pleasure and entertainment focused culture
7. people are very arrogant and rude
8. birth rate drops off a cliff as women stop having children
9. women develop eating disorders

Basically, the same culture America has today. I don't expect it to last for much longer. It can be reversed but only after a major war or social upheaval.

US Twilight Zone of Pre-Collapse Just like Rome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX5JCC4aO4k

USA isn't Rome 2.0. I suppose you can identify similarities, but the conclusion is flawed.

[Corey_Bee]

The cancer of feminism is spreading everywhere. I have heard that your odds are better in some place like the Philippines because there's not as much feminism training women to hate on men. However, once you take your Filipino wife to the US, or whichever country you're from, she learns the feminist hate.

Even without feminism, however, women will have hypergamy. Dating women is basically hypergamy surfing. Some dudes can successfully catch a wave and be riding high ... for a while. Any time hypergamy has taken over, there's no romantic relationship that can survive it.

[MechWarrior]

He's wrong Winston, the west is done. The Vax sealed it, everyone here is just the walking dead at this point. Luckily everyone who took the vax consists of mainly feminists and their frankentrannies.