Wow are European girls really this freespirited & passionate with a zest for life? Why aren't you guys promoting them?

[Winston]

Russian authors and philosophers tend to have sad tragic lives full of suffering and misery too. That's what made them deep. See below about the lives of Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy for example.





Remember even Buddha saw life as suffering and was disillusioned, so he left his luxurious palace home and became a monk in search of truth and a remedy for suffering. A happy man would not do that of course.

[Winston]

This Medieval philosopher who suffered a lot of loss wrote a philosophy book about how to cope with loss and tragedy and regret.

The Consolation of Philosophy is the name of one of the greatest and most useful books ever written, the work of the Roman statesman and philosopher Boethius, who wrote it in prison as a way to ward of despair and regret. The lessons of the book remain hugely applicable to our own times - and deserve to be known to all of us in the face uncertain times.

Boethius’s Consolation of Philosophy



Btw, the founder of Stoicism, Zeno, also suffered a lot of great loss and tragedy, which led him to found the philosophy of Stoicism.



Did you guys know that? @hypermak

For more on Stoicism, see this thread:

viewtopic.php?style=11&f=40&t=38408

Btw, have you read "Meditations" by Marcus Aurelius? It is VERY pessimistic and grim about life. I couldn't stand it. Most Americans probably could not stand it either.



Perhaps you guys are thinking of happy go lucky New Age authors? If so, those aren't great philosophers. They are commercialized BS positivity cult gurus.

[Yohan]

To @hypermak and @Yohan and @halnovemila and any other European male here:

Check out this movie I recently saw called "The Face of an Angel"? .....

.............................

Also, how could you guys leave Europe when there are super open/friendly girls like that who are very freespirited, open minded, fearless and uninhibited? You can't find girls like that in Asia or America, that's for sure. Girls in America or Asia are way too uptight to act that open or uninhibited, no way. So my question to you is: How can you leave Europe where there are girls like that, and where there is beautiful European architecture too, hence the BEST of both worlds, girls and scenic architecture? Isn't that crazy? Don't you guys ask yourselves that question too? lol

Especially you Yohan. I mean, in Japan you will NEVER EVER see girls that open and freespirited and fearless and uninhibited. NEVER. I'm sure you know that. So why would you go to Japan which is far more repressive and closed minded and socially closed than Europe? Isn't that insane? Don't you wonder that too?

You cannot compare a movie with the reality of life, especially not a movie about Europe today with Europe after WWII, in poverty and divided into West and East, so-called Iron curtain. I was living 20 miles away from the Hungarian iron curtain.

I left Europe with Germany still divided (Berlin Wall), and without any European Union existing.

I left also for other reasons, like cold winter, strong influence of the Catholic Church, inconvenient shop opening times, also to be away from many of difficult femily members and other useless people nearby....

Western European women are open, freespirited, fearless and uninhibited? Depends what is your definition about, I am not happy to socialize with a woman who has plenty of boyfriends and will leave you anyway when she does not like this and that...

Of course you might argue, Western Continental European women are so much better than women in the USA/UK, but you don't need much to be a little bit better than the worst of the worst. I was maybe better off than many other men, as I never made it up even for a girlfriend for 30 minutes.

Look a little bit around in the MGTOW related blogs, what men from Western Europe will tell you about their women.

In my own native country peak of divorce a few years ago was 52 percent in rural areas and 68 percent in the few larger cities.

About beautiful architecture, this might be true if you see such buildings from outside, but I don't miss them, I was living in such a building with my parents. Roof was leaking during rain and snow, toilet outside, water frozen in winter-time, no bathrooms and no hot water, very poor electrical standard, very high ceilings and huge heating costs... When I left Europe it was clear to me that I never want to live in such 'historical buildings' again in my life.

----

Of course there is some difference between USA and Continental Europe.
The social system in Europe is better, but taxes are high - however in return no need to worry about medical bills and retirement.
About feminism, it's better regulated in Europe, women also take money from you after divorce, but this is in percentages of your income, you will never be bankrupt and live in a van. In general women are not into lawsuits, there is not so much to gain from them, and there are no racist issues as you see them in the States. But otherwise?

For me Europe is a part of my past, not even a nice part of my past. As I said often, I will never return, not even for a short visit.
Nowadays Europe has also its problems about immigration with plenty of illegals everywhere and no-go zones and street violence.

[hypermak]

You cannot compare a movie with the reality of life, especially not a movie about Europe today with Europe after WWII, in poverty and divided into West and East, so-called Iron curtain. I was living 20 miles away from the Hungarian iron curtain.

I left Europe still with Germany still divided (Berlin Wall), and still without any European Union existing.

I left also for other reasons, like cold winter, strong influence of the Catholic Church, inconvenient shop opening times, also to be away from many of difficult femily members and other useless people nearby....

Western European women are open, freespirited, fearless and uninhibited? Depends what is your definition about, I am not happy to socialize with a woman who has plenty of boyfriends and will leave you anyway when she does not like this and that...

Of course you might argue, Western Continental European women are so much better than women in the USA/UK, but you don't need much to be a little bit better than the worst of the worst. I was maybe better off than many other men, as I never made it up even for a girlfriend for 30 minutes.

Look a little bit around in the MGTOW related blogs, what men from Western Europe will tell you about their women.

In my own native country peak of divorce a few years ago was 52 percent in rural areas and 68 percent in the few larger cities.

About beautiful architecture, this might be true if you see such buildings from outside, but I don't miss them, I was living in such a building with my parents. Roof was leaking during rain and snow, toilet outside, water frozen in winter-time, no bathrooms and no hot water, very poor electrical standard, very high ceilings and huge heating costs... When I left Europe it was clear to me that I never want to live in such 'historical buildings' again in my life.

----

Of course there is some difference between USA and Continental Europe.
The social system in Europe is better, but taxes are high - however in return no need to worry about medical bills and retirement.
About feminism, it's better regulated in Europe, women also take money from you after divorce, but this is in percentages of your income, you will never be bankrupt and live in a van. In general women are not into lawsuits, there is not so much to gain from them, and there are no racist issues as you see them in the States. But otherwise?

For me Europe is a part of my past, not even a nice part of my past. As I said often, I will never return, not even for a short visit.
Nowadays Europe has also its problems about immigration with plenty of illegals everywhere and no-go zones and street violence.

Great insight about what Europe, or at least some of Europe, used to be in the 70s. I was told the UK wasn't a great place to be, including London. Dirt and urban chaos everywhere, racial tensions, tensions with the Irish separatists ending up in bombings, poverty. Those were the famous times of the "sorpasso", the overtaking of the Italian economy over the British one.

By early 80s Italy had a veritable, well-deserved spot as the 5th world economy. By the time Margaret Thatcher and her ultra-liberalist policies started to take effect, we had lost Bettino Craxi, possibly the last proper political Leader (with a capital "L") Italy has ever had. Things started to reverse and revert to what they are today.

I think Italy has always been a great place to live a quiet, serene life, especially as a middle or upper-middle class family. Winters are milder than in some of the Central and Eastern European countries, so many of the problems you mention with historical and old buildings weren't so common.

About the women, I think the youth started to change during the "cultural revolution" imported from the States, which kicked in at different times. In some of the northern Italian regions with a history of resistance against Catholicism, like Veneto, Tuscany, and Emilia Romagna, women would usually be less conservative and more liberal. At the time my parents were married, in the mid-70s, marrying a woman who wasn't a virgin wasn't so uncommon at all. Of course we're talking about one previous boyfriend, who perhaps had left her broken-hearted, nothing like the cock carousel of today.

[MarcosZeitola]

Damn, @Winston I should have known to expect an enormous wall of text, arguments and points. Hell, even some challenges and requests included! It would take me quite a while to reply to your extensive thesis. Might be a small book's worth of rebuttal by the time I'm done. As you know I have a bunch of children and quite a few responsibilities that keep me occupied. But I'll try and have a go at it the best I can. You will at least admit, I hope, that if only based on her shelf alone, my wife isn't your average Filipina. Surely she is an original and out-of-the-box thinker in some ways, if only for the fact that she is not a religious person any longer. Now mind you, she is not an atheist, more like a spiritual agnostic, if I were to find a way to describe her. She does believe there may possibly be some Higher Power in the universe, she just thinks the Biblical God is a rather limited, flawed creature and quite unworthy of the title 'most powerful being of all times', as God exhibits human emotions such as jealousy and, at times, displays unreasonable anger not unlike a powerful statesman or dictator might experience. Would a truly all-powerful being even feel the need, to be cruel just to prove a point, like how He does in the story of Job?

She's read Dawkins, this is true. And she told me, after reading "The Selfish Gene", that "he's shockingly arrogant". I asked her why, she said he just comes across as appallingly full of himself. That said, she does believe a lot of what he says has a solid basis in reality. You mention he's lost some debate with some Christian fellow; this does not mean the man is incompetent. For example in the Republican Primaries in 2016, Donald Trump bested John Kasich in the debates, the former Ohio governor. Kasich was a far superior politician, able to reach across the aisle, reasonable, slightly bi-partisan and obviously an intelligent and capable man. Trump, by contrast, had next to zero political experience, was very crass, a great salesman but not anywhere near the level of Kasich and the other men in the debates. Yet Trump won, because he simply happens to be a better debater. This is a common theme; Ben Shapiro is not the next Albert Einstein by any stretch of the imagination, but he has a quick and sharp mind with a lot of quotes, data and information he can recite on the spot... thus he frequently beats those he debates, and beats them resoundingly. This is a skill not a lot of men possess. So who wins or loses a debate, to me, means little.

Anyway, I'll get back at more of your points as time goes by. You mentioned at some point that the 'average IQ' of the Philippines is a mere 80. Now I doubt this includes the entire country, because last I checked, nations aren't collectively tested for intelligence as a whole. Surely, your average gin-swigging Lolo, your tricycle driver or shabu-peddler won't have the greates intellect. Nor will your every-day ricefarmer. But among young, educated professionals you will find your fair share of reasonably intelligent people. If you go to some of the nation's better universities and places of learning, you will find genuinely intelligent young Filipinos and Filipinas. You said Rock met his share of stupid ones, even in Makati. I wonder if those include educated professionals and students, or primarily lower-class people working in the Makati area; there are lower class people working there too, after all, they need guards, drivers, you name it. It's not all businessmen and folks with an office of their own, and even among those, you'll find the occasional buffoon, just as one would in America.

No, I didn't marry a dumb woman. I could write a whole novel on why I think she's highly intelligent, and I'd feel this way even if she was not my wife and I did not love her. Of course we're all biased. A lot of the quotes from people who think highly of you, Winston, come from Dianne, your friends, from people who already hold you in high esteem and therefore are also biased. You willingly accept their testimonials as 'evidence' of your brightness and uniqueness, love or no love. It's not that hard to just say: "Sure, Marcos, it seems like your wife is clever and she may well be a lot cleverer than a lot of European girls." Or is that really, really hard? To accept a young woman from a country where "people are low IQ and dumb as dogs" can be bright enough to measure up to young women from Europe, Japan, Korea, America...

Often, with each generation, children become smarter than their parents. My better half is the fourth generation of her family to be reasonably well-educated. With each generation, the schools get a little better, the grades a little higher, the minds a little more free. The fact alone that she is the only one in her family to outgrow the Biblical concept of God most of them still devoutly adhere to, is evidence of her ability to 'think outside the box'. Further evidence of this ability is found in the fact that she is also not fully swayed by militant atheists and remains somewhere 'in limbo' as an agnostic with spiritual leanings and an interest in Hinduism and Buddhism. She's into meditation, currently reads this book by the Indian philosopher Osho in which he has written down a great number of meditations, with the instruction of the reader to try them for a while, each of them, until one 'sticks' and you find which works for you. There's a lot of interesting wisdom to be found in some of the material she reads, the people she follows and the things she tries. I wonder, how many other people in the Philippines meditate and are 'spiritual seekers' still trying to find the way, unsure of what that way may be.

She's adrift, Winston. She's searching. And when she finds something interesting, learns something new, she tells me about it with great enthusiasm. Sometimes her family pokes fun at her idolatry, her enthusiasm for things beyond their grasp. And at times even I do, myself. It's beyond my grasp, too, some of it. How many women do you know, or did you know, who made you feel humble, who taught you new things almost every day, and who were rarely found a moment of their free time without a book in their hands? And she does all this while raising children with me, while self-studying, playing an instrument and studying programming on the side. Such tremendous drive. Such passion. If I could muster only a tenth of the same passion and drive, I wonder where I'd be today, and I'm curious to see where it'll bring her, and us, in the years to come.

It would just be nice if you could admit that Filipinos are not just a nation of low IQ people barely functioning above the level of dogs, and that while there are many stupid people, surely, there are some great minds and interesting people to be found as well. You could accept that, just because you have yet to find someone like that, it does not mean it does not exist. If went to America and stayed in some backwards redneck area I would assume the everyday American is a low IQ drunk poverty-tier loser as well. So try not to let your experiences, mainly based around the Angeles area, taint your whole impression of a country. It does not mean the whole country is that way. Nor is the stupidity some sort of genetic thing and higher than the level of stupidity in other countries... you greatly dislike Americans and find many of them stupid. Would you still say the average American is that much smarter than the average Filipino? How about the average South-African or Chinese in a rural area? That's what gets to me most with you, Winston. The snobbery.

[Yohan]

Winston wrote: ↑Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:47 pm
To @hypermak and @Yohan and @halnovemila and any other European male here:
-----
Also, how could you guys leave Europe when there are super open/friendly girls like that who are very freespirited, open minded, fearless and uninhibited? You can't find girls like that in Asia or America, that's for sure. Girls in America or Asia are way too uptight to act that open or uninhibited, no way. So my question to you is: How can you leave Europe where there are girls like that, and where there is beautiful European architecture too, hence the BEST of both worlds, girls and scenic architecture? Isn't that crazy? Don't you guys ask yourselves that question too? lol

Especially you Yohan. I mean, in Japan you will NEVER EVER see girls that open and freespirited and fearless and uninhibited. NEVER. I'm sure you know that. So why would you go to Japan which is far more repressive and closed minded and socially closed than Europe? Isn't that insane? Don't you wonder that too?

You cannot compare a movie with the reality of life, especially not a movie about Europe today with Europe after WWII, in poverty and divided into West and East, so-called Iron curtain. I was living 20 miles away from the Hungarian iron curtain.

I left Europe still with Germany still divided (Berlin Wall), and still without any European Union existing.

I left also for other reasons, like cold winter, strong influence of the Catholic Church, inconvenient shop opening times, also to be away from many of difficult family members and other useless people nearby....

Great insight about what Europe, or at least some of Europe, used to be in the 70s.

Let me add a few sentences and also some links.

People like Winston in the States have really no idea, no knowledge about how people in Austria and Hungary were living in poverty past WWII.
WWII was ending 1945, but poverty continued and for our Eastern neighbour, Hungary, located on the other side of the iron curtain, situation became even worse past 1955. This area became a looting and rape zone for the Sowjets past 1945 for more than 10 years.
I do not hate anybody - nobody who survived WW2 in that region was 'normal' - neither the winner nor the losers - everybody had a mental damage.

Some links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Administr ... in_Austria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian ... on_of_1956

As a fact, many in Austria - those people who really had nothing - just left. Destinations were mainly USA, Canada, Australia, South Africa....some moved into Africa to the French colonies.

Reports indicates that about as many as 500.000 left my native country over those years....but it was not so easy, without good airlinks, money exchange issues, missing information, expensive phone calls etc. - But it was legal to leave if you were lucky living on the Western side of the iron curtain. -

If you were living on the Eastern side, in some areas you were risking your life if you tried it out - for example over the Berlin Wall and this dangerous situation continued up to 1989...

and believe me, girls overseas were the last issue thinking about

I was choosing a rather unusual destination around 1972 - Malaysia and Japan....not many did this, maybe less than 100 people from my country...

[ElPajaro]

Kasich a "far superior politician" ? Come on Marcos.

[Italianman]

Damn, @Winston I should have known to expect an enormous wall of text, arguments and points. Hell, even some challenges and requests included! It would take me quite a while to reply to your extensive thesis. Might be a small book's worth of rebuttal by the time I'm done. As you know I have a bunch of children and quite a few responsibilities that keep me occupied. But I'll try and have a go at it the best I can. You will at least admit, I hope, that if only based on her shelf alone, my wife isn't your average Filipina. Surely she is an original and out-of-the-box thinker in some ways, if only for the fact that she is not a religious person any longer. Now mind you, she is not an atheist, more like a spiritual agnostic, if I were to find a way to describe her. She does believe there may possibly be some Higher Power in the universe, she just thinks the Biblical God is a rather limited, flawed creature and quite unworthy of the title 'most powerful being of all times', as God exhibits human emotions such as jealousy and, at times, displays unreasonable anger not unlike a powerful statesman or dictator might experience. Would a truly all-powerful being even feel the need, to be cruel just to prove a point, like how He does in the story of Job?

She's read Dawkins, this is true. And she told me, after reading "The Selfish Gene", that "he's shockingly arrogant". I asked her why, she said he just comes across as appallingly full of himself. That said, she does believe a lot of what he says has a solid basis in reality. You mention he's lost some debate with some Christian fellow; this does not mean the man is incompetent. For example in the Republican Primaries in 2016, Donald Trump bested John Kasich in the debates, the former Ohio governor. Kasich was a far superior politician, able to reach across the aisle, reasonable, slightly bi-partisan and obviously an intelligent and capable man. Trump, by contrast, had next to zero political experience, was very crass, a great salesman but not anywhere near the level of Kasich and the other men in the debates. Yet Trump won, because he simply happens to be a better debater. This is a common theme; Ben Shapiro is not the next Albert Einstein by any stretch of the imagination, but he has a quick and sharp mind with a lot of quotes, data and information he can recite on the spot... thus he frequently beats those he debates, and beats them resoundingly. This is a skill not a lot of men possess. So who wins or loses a debate, to me, means little.

Anyway, I'll get back at more of your points as time goes by. You mentioned at some point that the 'average IQ' of the Philippines is a mere 80. Now I doubt this includes the entire country, because last I checked, nations aren't collectively tested for intelligence as a whole. Surely, your average gin-swigging Lolo, your tricycle driver or shabu-peddler won't have the greates intellect. Nor will your every-day ricefarmer. But among young, educated professionals you will find your fair share of reasonably intelligent people. If you go to some of the nation's better universities and places of learning, you will find genuinely intelligent young Filipinos and Filipinas. You said Rock met his share of stupid ones, even in Makati. I wonder if those include educated professionals and students, or primarily lower-class people working in the Makati area; there are lower class people working there too, after all, they need guards, drivers, you name it. It's not all businessmen and folks with an office of their own, and even among those, you'll find the occasional buffoon, just as one would in America.

No, I didn't marry a dumb woman. I could write a whole novel on why I think she's highly intelligent, and I'd feel this way even if she was not my wife and I did not love her. Of course we're all biased. A lot of the quotes from people who think highly of you, Winston, come from Dianne, your friends, from people who already hold you in high esteem and therefore are also biased. You willingly accept their testimonials as 'evidence' of your brightness and uniqueness, love or no love. It's not that hard to just say: "Sure, Marcos, it seems like your wife is clever and she may well be a lot cleverer than a lot of European girls." Or is that really, really hard? To accept a young woman from a country where "people are low IQ and dumb as dogs" can be bright enough to measure up to young women from Europe, Japan, Korea, America...

Often, with each generation, children become smarter than their parents. My better half is the fourth generation of her family to be reasonably well-educated. With each generation, the schools get a little better, the grades a little higher, the minds a little more free. The fact alone that she is the only one in her family to outgrow the Biblical concept of God most of them still devoutly adhere to, is evidence of her ability to 'think outside the box'. Further evidence of this ability is found in the fact that she is also not fully swayed by militant atheists and remains somewhere 'in limbo' as an agnostic with spiritual leanings and an interest in Hinduism and Buddhism. She's into meditation, currently reads this book by the Indian philosopher Osho in which he has written down a great number of meditations, with the instruction of the reader to try them for a while, each of them, until one 'sticks' and you find which works for you. There's a lot of interesting wisdom to be found in some of the material she reads, the people she follows and the things she tries. I wonder, how many other people in the Philippines meditate and are 'spiritual seekers' still trying to find the way, unsure of what that way may be.

She's adrift, Winston. She's searching. And when she finds something interesting, learns something new, she tells me about it with great enthusiasm. Sometimes her family pokes fun at her idolatry, her enthusiasm for things beyond their grasp. And at times even I do, myself. It's beyond my grasp, too, some of it. How many women do you know, or did you know, who made you feel humble, who taught you new things almost every day, and who were rarely found a moment of their free time without a book in their hands? And she does all this while raising children with me, while self-studying, playing an instrument and studying programming on the side. Such tremendous drive. Such passion. If I could muster only a tenth of the same passion and drive, I wonder where I'd be today, and I'm curious to see where it'll bring her, and us, in the years to come.

It would just be nice if you could admit that Filipinos are not just a nation of low IQ people barely functioning above the level of dogs, and that while there are many stupid people, surely, there are some great minds and interesting people to be found as well. You could accept that, just because you have yet to find someone like that, it does not mean it does not exist. If went to America and stayed in some backwards redneck area I would assume the everyday American is a low IQ drunk poverty-tier loser as well. So try not to let your experiences, mainly based around the Angeles area, taint your whole impression of a country. It does not mean the whole country is that way. Nor is the stupidity some sort of genetic thing and higher than the level of stupidity in other countries... you greatly dislike Americans and find many of them stupid. Would you still say the average American is that much smarter than the average Filipino? How about the average South-African or Chinese in a rural area? That's what gets to me most with you, Winston. The snobbery.

Ah, this is too much to read.

[WisconsinMan82]

On the contrary, I remember one morning getting into a heated political argument with one German girl when I was in 10th grade. I'm a right-wing libertarian and Trump supporter, and my views haven't changed all too much since then, but this girl, for as sweet as she seemed and as introverted as she was, was very much a brainwashed, left-wing, feminist, climate alarmist "linke Titte" (a German slang term for an obnoxious hardcore left-wing woman, literally "left tit"), and she thought I was nuts and incapable of forming a counterargument just because I pointed out to her when her arguments were basically just ad hominem or personal attacks. A couple of other people seemed standoffish and hostile too.

Well, it's rude in a lot of cultures to spew out your political opinions on people you hardly know. Especially the northern European cultures, especially people from a certain country where they have been castigated worldwide in recent history for terrible atrocities on mankind.

German girl probably thought you were an obnoxious, right-wing, tit. Keep it light and away from politics until you really get to know them. I notice this with Americans in my travels, they like to debate politics and win arguments they start and I don't know if they realise they're being obnoxious half the time.

You weren't there, and I'm pretty sure she was the one who began the political discussion. In America it's not particularly socially acceptable to begin a passionate political discussion in a public place and/or with someone you don't know very well either. I would also suggest you lay off the personal comments and name-calling, as you did here and later on in your post. It's seriously not cool to insult someone personally whom you know only through a computer screen.

[yick]

On the contrary, I remember one morning getting into a heated political argument with one German girl when I was in 10th grade. I'm a right-wing libertarian and Trump supporter, and my views haven't changed all too much since then, but this girl, for as sweet as she seemed and as introverted as she was, was very much a brainwashed, left-wing, feminist, climate alarmist "linke Titte" (a German slang term for an obnoxious hardcore left-wing woman, literally "left tit"), and she thought I was nuts and incapable of forming a counterargument just because I pointed out to her when her arguments were basically just ad hominem or personal attacks. A couple of other people seemed standoffish and hostile too.

Well, it's rude in a lot of cultures to spew out your political opinions on people you hardly know. Especially the northern European cultures, especially people from a certain country where they have been castigated worldwide in recent history for terrible atrocities on mankind.

German girl probably thought you were an obnoxious, right-wing, tit. Keep it light and away from politics until you really get to know them. I notice this with Americans in my travels, they like to debate politics and win arguments they start and I don't know if they realise they're being obnoxious half the time.

You weren't there, and I'm pretty sure she was the one who began the political discussion. In America it's not particularly socially acceptable to begin a passionate political discussion in a public place and/or with someone you don't know very well either. I would also suggest you lay off the personal comments and name-calling, as you did here and later on in your post. It's seriously not cool to insult someone personally whom you know only through a computer screen.

I don't have to be there, I know Germans and German culture very well and what I know is that they would never talk politics in polite conversation, especially with Americans they hardly know - why? Because of their recent history - any conversation will end with 'well, at least we didn't gas six million Jews' and that ends that and every German knows this. No introverted German girl would bring up politics with people she hardly knows in a country where she is a guest - that's something Americans do. You have just done it in your last post.

'I am a right wing Trump supporter blahblahblah' nobody gives a shit, that is something uniquely American and then you double down on your very American traits of talking politics by claiming you 'won' because she became insulting to you - Americans are the only nationality who do this - honestly - no-one else foists their political opinions onto you as much as the Americans and then harp on about 'winning' - ask Winston, ask CE, ask any American abroad about this.

There are jerkoff Brits, Australians, South Africans, New Zealanders, the Irish, Canadians with their own unique strands of bad etiquette and behaviours but no-one goes around apologising for their president, nobody uses politics as a conversation opener as much as American males - even other Americans escaping the matrix are tired of it. I have seen Americans shut other Americans up when they start banging on about whatever regards politics - you have escaped the toxic political culture by moving abroad - why would you want to bring it with you?

And I haven't insulted you, I have just imagined what that girl must have thought of you, you've insulted her - why don't you think she thinks just as highly as you?

Let me give you some advice for 2024, nobody cares about your politics, you brought this up on this thread about your personal politics? Am I right or what? The only expats who bring up politics with other expats are Americans. You can see that you have never left The States because you don't know how socially toxic it is for other people - especially Europeans - there is even a saying in the UK 'Never talk politics or religion' if you want to keep your friends. A good idea to remember this when you get your first passport and first plane ticket out of Wisconsin.

[WisconsinMan82]

-snip-

1. This conversation was nearly 3 years ago. I was 15 at the time. Even if I had been the one to turn the discussion political, which I'm pretty certain I wasn't, at least consider that people can change over time.
2. You can't claim to be speaking for ALL people of a particular nationality in saying that NO German would be willing to initiate a conversation about politics. Germany is a nation of 82 million people, each with his or her own personality, and I really wouldn't be inclined to believe it's such a nation of robots that nobody diverges from what's "socially acceptable".
3. I also grew up being told that one should avoid the subjects of religion, politics, and one's sex life in public places and with strangers. I don't particularly enjoy or get satisfaction from these arguments either.
4. I have never apologised for my president. I wouldn't apologise for having Trump as my president.
5. You mention Brits, Australians, South Africans, New Zealanders, Irish, and Canadians. Those are all other Anglosphere countries.
6. If your only argument is an insult against the other person, that pretty much proves right there that you don't have much of a valid argument.

[yick]

1. This conversation was nearly 3 years ago. I was 15 at the time. Even if I had been the one to turn the discussion political, which I'm pretty certain I wasn't, at least consider that people can change over time.

Oh right, I thought I was conversing with an adult, I didn't know you were still a child, I will remember this for future reference. You said in your paragraph above you still hold those political views.

2. You can't claim to be speaking for ALL people of a particular nationality in saying that NO German would be willing to initiate a conversation about politics. Germany is a nation of 82 million people, each with his or her own personality, and I really wouldn't be inclined to believe it's such a nation of robots that nobody diverges from what's "socially acceptable".

Which I didn't do, I accept that there are always outliers and I pointed out not every American expat bangs on about politics to people they barely know but it is a common theme amongst them, Germans generally don't start political arguments with foreigners or people they barely know because they are sensitive about their recent past and they consider it very rude behaviour.

I made the calculation that young, 15 year old, introverted girl who is a guest in a country far away from her homeland whose first language isn't English isn't going to be picking political fights with people she hardly knows - especially a German teenager in America - a country where toxic divisive politics are a part of daily discourse.

You can deny otherwise until you are blue in the face but I don't believe you for second.

3. I also grew up being told that one should avoid the subjects of religion, politics, and one's sex life in public places and with strangers. I don't particularly enjoy or get satisfaction from these arguments either.

Yeah, but it doesn't stop Americans banging on about politics to people they hardly know - or sometimes they don't know at all.

4. I have never apologised for my president. I wouldn't apologise for having Trump as my president.

Don't worry, son - plenty are doing it on your behalf.

5. You mention Brits, Australians, South Africans, New Zealanders, Irish, and Canadians. Those are all other Anglosphere countries.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees...

6. If your only argument is an insult against the other person, that pretty much proves right there that you don't have much of a valid argument.

I also gave you some good advice, child. You should really heed it.

[WisconsinMan82]

-snip-

1. You weren't there. You don't know what happened, and you can't just assume things happened in a certain way just because of your preconceived notions about all people of a certain nationality.
2. To reiterate, I do not enjoy getting into political arguments with other people. I know I was feeling uncomfortable during this interaction, and I'm sure anybody else who overheard it got uncomfortable listening to it too.
3. 15-year-olds are not children. 18-year-olds, such as me now, are not children. I'm not saying that your average 15-year-old is equivalent to a 40-year-old adult, but the vast majority of 15-year-olds have begun puberty and are thus no longer children in the technical, scientific sense; they are adolescents, in between childhood and adulthood.
4. On that note, you can't just dismiss someone's arguments on account of the age of the person making them. That's another classic example of an ad hominem. I also don't appreciate being called things like "son" and "child", especially considering that in relation to you I am neither, and I don't even know how old you are to begin with; for all I know and care, you could be 24 calling me those things to try to sound tough.
5. I'm getting the sense that you don't like Trump. Fair enough, but his supporters are not all bad people and don't deserve to be painted with the same broad brush.
6. I'm also getting the sense that we actually agree on a lot more than we're letting on simply because we think the other is more different in thought pattern here than is actually the case. For example, we both agree that it's uncouth to start banging on about politics around people you barely know.
7. Welcome to my foe/ignore list.

[MarcosZeitola]

1. You weren't there. You don't know what happened, and you can't just assume things happened in a certain way just because of your preconceived notions about all people of a certain nationality.
2. To reiterate, I do not enjoy getting into political arguments with other people. I know I was feeling uncomfortable during this interaction, and I'm sure anybody else who overheard it got uncomfortable listening to it too.
3. 15-year-olds are not children. 18-year-olds, such as me now, are not children. I'm not saying that your average 15-year-old is equivalent to a 40-year-old adult, but the vast majority of 15-year-olds have begun puberty and are thus no longer children in the technical, scientific sense; they are adolescents, in between childhood and adulthood.
4. On that note, you can't just dismiss someone's arguments on account of the age of the person making them. That's another classic example of an ad hominem. I also don't appreciate being called things like "son" and "child", especially considering that in relation to you I am neither, and I don't even know how old you are to begin with; for all I know and care, you could be 24 calling me those things to try to sound tough.
5. I'm getting the sense that you don't like Trump. Fair enough, but his supporters are not all bad people and don't deserve to be painted with the same broad brush.
6. I'm also getting the sense that we actually agree on a lot more than we're letting on simply because we think the other is more different in thought pattern here than is actually the case. For example, we both agree that it's uncouth to start banging on about politics around people you barely know.
7. Welcome to my foe/ignore list.

To be fair, WisconsinBoy, some Dutch, Swedish or Italian girls can be every bit as annoying and grating to be around as those screeching banshee liberal chicks from America that 'go viral' from time to time. Haven't had that much experience with German girls, admittedly - had sex with two of them as a teenager but not much talking after - but I can absolutely buy your story.

That "social justice actism" fad is a disease. It's our generation's version of AIDS, and sure enough even in the land of the Aryans, there's now some 'introverted' young girls that are 'SJW positive".

[yick]

1. You weren't there. You don't know what happened, and you can't just assume things happened in a certain way just because of your preconceived notions about all people of a certain nationality.

I can assume it, it might not make my assumption true but nor do your claims can be proven - we will just have to leave it at that. I don't believe you, you need to grow a thicker skin if you want to live as a an expat, opinionated people end up with red faces all the time - your stated opinions will get challenged all the time. Ask me why when you unblock me.

2. To reiterate, I do not enjoy getting into political arguments with other people. I know I was feeling uncomfortable during this interaction, and I'm sure anybody else who overheard it got uncomfortable listening to it too.

I bet you don't - you could have just said, like I would have done 'oh well, that's your opinion' and left it at that but you went hammer and tongs, oh hang, introverted German girl made you.

3. 15-year-olds are not children. 18-year-olds, such as me now, are not children. I'm not saying that your average 15-year-old is equivalent to a 40-year-old adult, but the vast majority of 15-year-olds have begun puberty and are thus no longer children in the technical, scientific sense; they are adolescents, in between childhood and adulthood.

You're a child if you act like a child, some 40 year olds here in China are absolute children.

4. On that note, you can't just dismiss someone's arguments on account of the age of the person making them. That's another classic example of an ad hominem. I also don't appreciate being called things like "son" and "child", especially considering that in relation to you I am neither, and I don't even know how old you are to begin with; for all I know and care, you could be 24 calling me those things to try to sound tough.

I could be 24 but I am not. I can dismiss someones arguments based on prior knowledge of certain ethnic groups and their behaviours - I am sure there are argumentative albeit introverted German teenagers but you sure are an opinionated young man with many opinions on many things - are you not? Your posting history suggests this.

5. I'm getting the sense that you don't like Trump. Fair enough, but his supporters are not all bad people and don't deserve to be painted with the same broad brush.

I couldn't give two shits about him to be honest though I would rather he wasn't in power this time next year, if he is, so be it.

6. I'm also getting the sense that we actually agree on a lot more than we're letting on simply because we think the other is more different in thought pattern here than is actually the case. For example, we both agree that it's uncouth to start banging on about politics around people you barely know.

Maybe, maybe not.

7. Welcome to my foe/ignore list.

Good!