Hey! Anybody been to Holland/Netherlands?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the European Countries.
SNS
Freshman Poster
Posts: 89
Joined: July 13th, 2009, 12:26 pm

Post by SNS »

DiscoPro_Joe wrote:SNS, did I mention that several of the female friends I've made here in Chongqing are feminists? Did you know that they exhibit none of the hateful or paranoid characteristics of American modern feminists?

You come across me as someone who believes that all blacks are the same, all gays are the same, all atheists are the same, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.
The asinine "They're not all like that" sound bite.
momopi wrote:There are all kinds of feminists, including sex-positive feminism which supports hetrosexual relationships, porn, and prostitution. One interesting flavor is libertarian feminists who stress on individual choice and accepting the responsbilities for your own action (or inaction). For example:

http://www.intellectualconservative.com ... ereotypes/
I do not doubt there could be feminists like this but rest assured that they are the extreme minority in a group that despises anything male. Believe it or not back during Hitler Germany most members of the Nazi Party did not actively participate in throwing people into the ovens or processing them into lamp shades. A lot of party members were actually quite humble. But as you think about that now, and if you were to be in Germany at that time, how would you feel if you happen to meet someone and found out they are a Nazi Party member? Despite that this particular person may not be actively involved in the killing and genocide, what would you still think? Would you not find it very difficult to not have contempt for someone who is only a member?

and BTW those quotes I posted are from mainstream feminists leaders and / or representatives, not an outside fringe minority group.
momopi wrote: If you choose not to exercise that right/freedom, then that's your problem. People who just bitch and complain get no respect because sympathy is only given the first time. Men who complain about rejection by women constantly is about as repulsive as that crazy stalker ex-GF who can't get over the breakup.
Classic shaming tactic. It aint gonna fly here. Yeah those Holocaust victims who complained about the genocide. [/sarcasm]

Most men do not have the means to 'get outta Dodge' so they are stuck in the feminazi wasteland and have to contend with the extreme political correctness, extreme anti-male biased laws, and overall dysfunctionality of a nation run and inhabited by idiots. A man has very few rights in the USA, and absolute zero (0) rights as a father. Fact is in the USA the feminist lobby have the law makers at their beckon call. We have laws like IMBRA VAWA etc, we have an extremely unfair divorce court system. One judge in NJ awarded palimony to a chick who broke up with her boyfriend and they were not even living together. So in essence simply dating a female has become defacto marriage. We all know when one judge pulls a BS stunt like this in the courtroom, other states will try to follow and do the same thing.

Oh yes, let's also take a look at paternity fraud. A woman can literally pull a man's name out of a hat and say to Social Services: "He's the father of my child, i want payments" Google paternity fraud and get educated. The state goes along with this without even questioning whether or not she is telling the Truth. A lot of cases a man is not even allowed to do a DNA test to prove he is not the father of a child, being accused by a woman he has not even met. And there are numerous cases where an accused man does prove he is not the father but the courts still will garnish his wages anyway. All the while the feminists are singing the praises of the courts and saying "Thank you for thinking of the children!"

At this stage of the game we are not looking for respect from women, we are trying to simply be able to exist and be left the hell alone which is becoming ever more difficult every year. Try going to Glenn Sacks website and get clued in.

Oh, you will then respond "I know but......" Guess what? I am willing to wager none of the members here who are unplugged and realize the big scam played on decent men really want to hear it.
Last edited by SNS on December 24th, 2009, 6:06 am, edited 8 times in total.
Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 6193
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:37 pm

Post by Adama »

DiscoPro_Joe wrote:SNS, did I mention that several of the female friends I've made here in Chongqing are feminists? Did you know that they exhibit none of the hateful or paranoid characteristics of American modern feminists?

You come across me as someone who believes that all blacks are the same, all gays are the same, all atheists are the same, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.
Not yet. The society doesnt allocate for that yet. If you lived another 60 years there (and if you still cared), I would bet you my future retirement that it would be vastly different.

Feminism is a cancer. It is not a cure for anything.

You ever read the Garbage Generation by Daniel Amneus?
DiscoPro_Joe
Freshman Poster
Posts: 120
Joined: March 12th, 2008, 10:29 pm
Location: Chongqing, China
Contact:

Post by DiscoPro_Joe »

Great post, Momopi. In my old thread, "In Defense of Individualism and Feminism," there is a specific weblink to Wendy McElroy's site http://ifeminists.net Great, great site. I've been an individualist feminist (a.k.a., libertarian feminist) for a long, long time.

Classic feminists such as this kind are often the best criticizers of modern feminism in America. The former can easily call out the latter's plethora of hypocrisies.
SNS wrote:Most men do not have the means to 'get outta Dodge' so they are stuck...
Check out this thread. You'll see there just might be a way out after all. This path certainly has its risks, though, so be sure and look before you leap.
SNS wrote:I do not doubt there could be feminists like this but rest assured that they are the extreme minority in a group that despises anything male.
They're certainly in the minority among feminists in the U.S., but seem to be among the majority of the feminists overseas.
Insidious wrote:Not yet. The society doesnt allocate for that yet. If you lived another 60 years there (and if you still cared), I would bet you my future retirement that it would be vastly different.
How do you figure that? Do you think China will have the world's official reserve currency in 2070, which the U.S. currently has (so it can sit there, print money, give it to the rest of the world, and not have to produce anything...thereby replicating the current economic environment of the U.S.)? That certainly is a possibility, but then again, I'm hoping that private digital gold currencies will replace the world's fiat paper systems in the coming years and decades. Governments around the world will fight tooth and nail against these private currencies at first, but will be unable to stop them in the long run.

I would bet that the Chinese economic environment of 2070 will be at least somewhat different from America's today. And therefore, so will its predominant form of feminism. I also am predicting that when the obliterated U.S. economy bottoms around the year 2020, America's predominant form of feminism will return to the classical kind, because the U.S. will no longer hold the world's official reserve currency. Entitlement mentalities will become less common as a result of this.
Insidious wrote:Feminism is a cancer. It is not a cure for anything.
Really??? How about women being allowed to own property, to work outside the home, and to be legally treated as an adult (instead of a child)? This is precisely what classic feminists fought for in the last 150 years. Is there a problem with that?
Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 6193
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:37 pm

Post by Adama »

DiscoPro_Joe wrote:
Insidious wrote:Not yet. The society doesnt allocate for that yet. If you lived another 60 years there (and if you still cared), I would bet you my future retirement that it would be vastly different.
How do you figure that? Do you think China will have the world's official reserve currency in 2070, which the U.S. currently has (so it can sit there, print money, give it to the rest of the world, and not have to produce anything...thereby replicating the current economic environment of the U.S.)? That certainly is a possibility, but then again, I'm hoping that private digital gold currencies will replace the world's fiat paper systems in the coming years and decades. Governments around the world will fight tooth and nail against these private currencies at first, but will be unable to stop them in the long run.

I would bet that the Chinese economic environment of 2070 will be at least somewhat different from America's today. And therefore, so will its predominant form of feminism. I also am predicting that when the obliterated U.S. economy bottoms around the year 2020, America's predominant form of feminism will return to the classical kind, because the U.S. will no longer hold the world's official reserve currency. Entitlement mentalities will become less common as a result of this.
Insidious wrote:Feminism is a cancer. It is not a cure for anything.
Really??? How about women being allowed to own property, to work outside the home, and to be legally treated as an adult (instead of a child)? This is precisely what classic feminists fought for in the last 150 years. Is there a problem with that?
I will only advise you to read the first couple of chapters of Daniel Amneus's Garbage Generation. He spells it out specifically. The more power given to women, the weaker the family becomes. (No need to read the entire thing, unless you prefer: http://www.fisheaters.com/garbagegeneration.html )

Also, feminism is a "slippery slope." Women will never be satisfied with the amount of rights and privileges they have. Even today in the USA, in which women are considered to be minorities with their "protected status", they still demand ever more rights and privileges.

You must also acknowledge the biological advantage that women have just by owning the uteruses. The power of sexual selection already gives women enormous power, though it is subtle.

Another point is that once women are given equal power to men, virtually all women ban together quite easily in sisterhood to accomplish more Feminist goals. Men are more individualistic and arent wired on a biological level to ban together, but rather compete for resources and mates.
SNS
Freshman Poster
Posts: 89
Joined: July 13th, 2009, 12:26 pm

Post by SNS »

DiscoPro_Joe wrote:
Insidious wrote:Feminism is a cancer. It is not a cure for anything.
Really??? How about women being allowed to own property, to work outside the home, and to be legally treated as an adult (instead of a child)? This is precisely what classic feminists fought for in the last 150 years. Is there a problem with that?
On top of that you are ignorant. In America before the whole women's lib BS women were allowed to own property and work outside the home. Things were getting becoming better for women without feminism. Contemporary feminism is based on hatred of men. Go back and read the quotes I posted from these feminists leaders.
DiscoPro_Joe wrote:
SNS wrote:Most men do not have the means to 'get outta Dodge' so they are stuck...
Check out this thread. You'll see there just might be a way out after all. This path certainly has its risks, though, so be sure and look before you leap.
That thread was about whether or not one should leave the States with Credit card debt, not a concise plan to expatriate. You're even stupider than I thought. I'm done here.
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 37670
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 6:16 am
Contact:

Post by Winston »

SNS wrote:
DiscoPro_Joe wrote:If you're a male feminist like me,
You sir, were tragically born without a brain. Let us take a look at the various remarks that famous and so-called respected feminist leaders have stated over the years:

Famous hate quotes from feminists:
I think you misunderstood Joe. He does not advocate hateful feminists. The kind of feminists you are exposing are man hating feminazis masquerading under the term "feminism". What Joe advocates is just simple pure equality between men and women. I have no problem with that if it's just about basic equality. The problem comes when man hating and female superiority agendas are promoted under the mask of "feminism and equality". That is deceptive, harmful and plain wrong. But it seems as though you've confused the two. The hateful kind is NOT what Joe is supporting. Hope that clears it up for you.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
Adama
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 6193
Joined: August 23rd, 2009, 2:37 pm

Post by Adama »

Winston wrote:
SNS wrote:
DiscoPro_Joe wrote:If you're a male feminist like me,
You sir, were tragically born without a brain. Let us take a look at the various remarks that famous and so-called respected feminist leaders have stated over the years:

Famous hate quotes from feminists:
I think you misunderstood Joe. He does not advocate hateful feminists. The kind of feminists you are exposing are man hating feminazis masquerading under the term "feminism". What Joe advocates is just simple pure equality between men and women. I have no problem with that if it's just about basic equality. The problem comes when man hating and female superiority agendas are promoted under the mask of "feminism and equality". That is deceptive, harmful and plain wrong. But it seems as though you've confused the two. The hateful kind is NOT what Joe is supporting. Hope that clears it up for you.
Women = men just may be a false premise. I really do think they are children in adult bodies, often with no sense of honor or loyalty. But hey, just look at the gray matter vs the white matter ratios in men and women.
SNS
Freshman Poster
Posts: 89
Joined: July 13th, 2009, 12:26 pm

Post by SNS »

Winston wrote:
SNS wrote:
DiscoPro_Joe wrote:If you're a male feminist like me,
You sir, were tragically born without a brain. Let us take a look at the various remarks that famous and so-called respected feminist leaders have stated over the years:

Famous hate quotes from feminists:
I think you misunderstood Joe. He does not advocate hateful feminists. The kind of feminists you are exposing are man hating feminazis masquerading under the term "feminism". What Joe advocates is just simple pure equality between men and women. I have no problem with that if it's just about basic equality. The problem comes when man hating and female superiority agendas are promoted under the mask of "feminism and equality". That is deceptive, harmful and plain wrong. But it seems as though you've confused the two. The hateful kind is NOT what Joe is supporting. Hope that clears it up for you.
Respectfully Winston, there is no in between. Feminism is destructive and has an anti-male biased agenda. Please read my Nazi Party affiliation analogy I wrote earlier in this thread. There is no such thing as moderate feminists.
momopi
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 4898
Joined: August 31st, 2007, 9:44 pm
Location: Orange County, California

Post by momopi »

SNS wrote: Most men do not have the means to 'get outta Dodge' so they are stuck in the feminazi wasteland and have to contend with the extreme political correctness, extreme anti-male biased laws, and overall dysfunctionality of a nation run and inhabited by idiots.
Don't have the means, or don't have the will power to get off their butts?

In the end, you're still responsible for your own actions. If you're too lazy, then blame no one but yourself.
Last edited by momopi on December 29th, 2009, 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hero
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1710
Joined: July 3rd, 2008, 1:19 pm

Post by Hero »

Winston wrote:Why are you guys dissing Holland? Dutch people are some of the friendliest and most open minded I've ever met. They are also very down to earth and easy to connect with and hold conversations with.
Hey, if prostitution and marijuana were legal here, I'd be a lot more friendly too :lol:
EvilBaga
Freshman Poster
Posts: 68
Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:44 pm

Post by EvilBaga »

Winston wrote:Why are you guys dissing Holland? Dutch people are some of the friendliest and most open minded I've ever met. They are also very down to earth and easy to connect with and hold conversations with. Very refreshing to say the least. Even if they are feminist, at least they are not hateful and antisocial types. They tend to be open minded, liberal, intellectual and among the least racist. I haven't been to Holland, but almost all the Dutch people I've met are like that.
Ive had the opposite experience, but then again, Ive only met 3. All men, no clue about the women.
User avatar
Winston
Site Admin
Posts: 37670
Joined: August 18th, 2007, 6:16 am
Contact:

Re: Hey! Anybody been to Holland/Netherlands?

Post by Winston »

@MarcosZeitola did you really write this on PAG's site? You're listed as the author. lol

https://culturewhiz.org/trip-reports/bl ... its-people

Blandness Best Describes the Netherlands and its People

It's only argument against blandness is the red light district and the "coffee shops" that legally sell marijuana, but I see those more as tourist gimmicks than truly Dutch elements. My observations of Dutch people: Tall and attractive; very wooden, stoic, and somewhat unfriendly and rude; very robotic (no offense), and the women seemed somewhat snobbish and unfeminine. The women don’t wear jewelry or make-up, or brush their hair and baths are usually taken once a week.

The Dutch think they are very sociable and inclusive – but sadly they lack all empathy on that front. For most Dutch people, it is family first, second and last. Relationships on the whole tend to be extremely superficial and no conversation goes into any depth as they lack depth. And worse than that, they have not learned the art of social conversation. They are so full and ready to voice opinions, but only the safe ones, the real one is whispered behind everyone’s back. In the Netherlands, you are considered lucky to have one or two real friends.

Another characteristic in the Netherlands is superficial tolerance. Unsurprisingly, discrimination is widespread in the Netherlands. Dutch tolerance is fine for same-sex relationships, attitude towards drugs and prostitution, but there appears to be a blind spot, or better said a black spot when it comes to Zwarte Piet.

Confrontation – best ignored because it really upsets a Dutch person and thus does not get you anywhere. They simply cannot handle it. And it is either met with an attack back at you, tears or whimpering away into a corner.

If you start working at a Dutch company, do not expect anyone to care about you. They are not interested in you, do not have the ability to put themselves in your shoes. Friday after work drinks…. Dutch prefer to share a beer (paid by the boss) from a crate on the kitchen (or meeting room) table. One beer and off they go (if work finishes at 5 they are off at 5.30 on the dot. There is always someone waiting for them at home. And no evening can be skipped or missed. They are stuck in a rut. And if they tell you about the great weekend they had, you can be rest assured, they have had a few birthday parties to attend from relatives – great or small – Opa, Oma, Niece or Nephew, same family all sharing birthdays in the same month, well they will go again next week, not a problem. Same crappy food (crisps for the kids and little crackers with filet american and brie for the adults) – same non conversation about football practice, swimming diplomas, holiday plans, school results, local dramas of bins not having been collected etc. too dull to mention.

Street fashion: the Dutch street fashion is in general….boring. Most Dutch women wear a leather jacket, jeans (preferably white or light-colored) and brown boots. Sounds stylish, right? Dutch men have a lot of gel in their hair (bleah!) and wear jeans and some very ugly (and usually also very old) brown shoes. Thankfully, there are a lot of expats that add flavor to the street fashion and you get to see some interesting outfits now and then.

Weather
Since I moved here the new thing I started doing is: checking the weather daily and learnt a lot about wind speed, humidity and rain probabilities. I even have a mobile app that predicts rain probability in the next 2 hours. You can check the amount of rain per each 5 minutes. It is very handy when you have to leave the house and it is raining…you check it and then you see that in 10 min it will stop raining…so you can better wait

Relationships
It is a bit difficult to become close friends with the Dutchies. In general, they are somewhat unfriendly and boring but you will not have problems with chit-chat conversations with them. But building a true friendship is difficult as you need to build a lot of trust, plus most of them already have a big group of close friends that they know since childhood…so you can imagine it not so easy for you to fit in. Best approach: get a Dutch boy/girl-friend.

Conclusion
The Dutch are very self-centered and ignorant. In spite of lots of classic British comedy being shown on Dutch television, sarcasm appears to be beyond the abilities of most of the locals. Instead of sarcasm, a primitive combination of rudeness and bluntness is deployed like a caveman wielding a club. Some actual examples are below.

“You must love it here in Holland, I’ve been to your country and it’s quite backwards”

“It’s nice that you made the effort to learn Dutch, but you speak it so badly that we should just speak English”

“you expats always go out and drink after work because you have no real friends here”

Dutch people are happy to be bland and boring and this leads to an apathy toward new ideas/things. A number of surveys have shown that even with the largest employment agencies in the Netherlands, that when people with identical CV’s apply for jobs, that those from non-EU backgrounds are not offered the same opportunities. Dutch people are probably the most ethnocentric people in Europe. The women feel like empty but beautiful storefront window dolls being mostly bland, boring and cold. However, the International dutchies seem more travelled and interesting.

Dutch people are just happy when something works and they don't bother looking for a better way of doing things. Because of this they are slow to adopt new technologies and ideas. For example, dutch people still use outdated internet tools like zoover and marktplaats despite the obvious superiority of Ebay and culture Whiz.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!

Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “European Countries”