Do I have a victim vibe? How do you explain these?

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momopi
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Post by momopi »

Young boys naturally want to run, jump, horseplay, fight, etc. If you lock them in a room and force them to sit at a desk for n hours every day, they're going to take it out on the runts. Boys out playing king of the hill should naturally compete with the strongest.

IMO it's natural and healthy for kids to get into fights (think of it as a litter of kittens clawing each other). It's very important for them to learn the lesson of fighting each other and making up after the fight to be friends again. You want your kids to learn how to use their fists to protect themselves, to forgive and forget, conflict resolution, and when to walk away & get over it. Otherwise in adulthood they'd still be emotionally immature or mentally screwed up, not knowing how/when to let go and move on. Or worse, end up as a punching bag.

My god-daughter got into a fight with her cousin recently, the 2 kids clawed each other in the face. The two mothers subsequently got into a fight over their kid's fight and were not on speaking terms over Xmas. I just looked at them and commented "you of all people should set a better example for your kids". ;p

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Winston
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Post by Winston »

I have a new question.

Why is it that in high school, people picked on me for having no dress style, as though I were some kind of slob? All I did was wear simple decent shirts from Ross and Marshalls. But here's the kicker. There were other teens in high school that dressed even worse. One guy wore the same checkered button flannel shirt everyday and baseball cap, and he smelled bad too. Yet he never got picked on or told he was dressed badly. When I asked my friend "Is that guy's dress style better than mine too?", surprisingly he nodded. WTF?! So a bum like that who smells and wears the same stupid shirt everyday has better "style" than me? WTF?! At least I didn't smell.

This doesn't make any logical sense. Doesn't this demonstrate once again, that I must have some "victim vibe" that causes people to gang up on me, even for irrational reasons that don't make sense? How can you logically explain this?

Plus, if my clothes came from bargain stores like Ross and Marshall's, which have chains all across the US, then logically I could not be the worst dressed person right? I mean if I was the only one who bought clothes there, then those chains would be out of business. So it logically follows that many others must buy clothes there too right? If so, then why am I always told that I am the worst dressed and have no style, no matter what I wear? Even if others dress the same as me or even worse, they aren't picked on, like I am!

WHY?! GOD DAMN IT! WHY?!

There must be something about me that triggers people to group together to pick on me. It happens all the time, even for no logical reason. Even if I'm with group of friends that like me, they tend to naturally gravitate toward picking on me anyway. Even though they do it in a lighthearted playful manner, still, they always choose to make fun of ME as a group and NOT someone else. What is it about me that causes that?

Isn't that conclusive proof that there is something about my personality or vibe that causes others to group together (even if they are my friends) and make fun of me?

If so, what is it? Can this be logically explained? Or is it a mystery?
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Post by Seeker »

Winston I don't find anything of what you said there mysterious or surprising. Groups, particularly groups of males tend to pick out someone who is different in a negative way. whether it be looks, personality, race, weakness or whatever. In your case you were short, physically weak, and Asian, you looked (and still look) easy to pick on and abuse. We even see this on YOUR OWN FORUM where you are to a significant degree considered a figure of fun rather than someone to be taken seriously.

I read about a study done on young boys on a camp together. Each of them was chosen for being popular at their own school, one of the leaders of their peer group. However when these boys from different schools were thrown in together and were divided into groups, there was always a boy in each group who was picked on and made into an outsider for some trivial reason. Maybe for being too slow, or for having big ears, or for having a large head. The point is, each group had a member who was ranked lowest in the social scale of each group.
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Post by Winston »

Seeker wrote:Winston I don't find anything of what you said there mysterious or surprising. Groups, particularly groups of males tend to pick out someone who is different in a negative way. whether it be looks, personality, race, weakness or whatever. In your case you were short, physically weak, and Asian, you looked (and still look) easy to pick on and abuse. We even see this on YOUR OWN FORUM where you are to a significant degree considered a figure of fun rather than someone to be taken seriously.

I read about a study done on young boys on a camp together. Each of them was chosen for being popular at their own school, one of the leaders of their peer group. However when these boys from different schools were thrown in together and were divided into groups, there was always a boy in each group who was picked on and made into an outsider for some trivial reason. Maybe for being too slow, or for having big ears, or for having a large head. The point is, each group had a member who was ranked lowest in the social scale of each group.
But I thought only high school kids do that. Adults do it too? Even when I'm in a group of friends, it happens too.

How do you explain the clothes thing in high school that I described above, where kids who wore the same checkered shirt everyday and smelled didn't get picked on or told that they dressed badly, but I did?

I'm not weaker than average, by the way. Ever since I was 12, I could beat most guys my age in arm wrestling, by using a few techniques, not just brute strength.

I asked this question to my retired mental health counselor friend. Here is what he had to say:
I will do my best to answer this, though, because it is also an issue I wrestle with from time-to-time.

For example, I have a friend who is older and not extremely attractive but he has a very "open" vibe about him (he has said his wife has described it as a "Come f**k me," look). Anyway, on various mongering trips together we have been in numerous bars in Thailand and he has always been hit on by the prettier girls and there have been a few occasions where the woman he was with would take an instant dislike to me, cuss me out, flip me off, etc.--all apparently for "no reason."

I realize, deep down, that I have a lot of anger and hatred of women because of my many rejections by them and it is very hard to hide this--as one of your posters said--women tend to pick up on these things very rapidly. Also, like you, I seem to attract more than my fair share of seemingly inexplicable things like barking dogs, barking women, bad breaks, etc. It is very hard to realistically assess these sorts of things given that in other ways both my life and yours have been filled with many "lucky" events and we arguably live better than a great majority of the world's people, at least materially and in terms of "interesting" life experiences.

Some of what the PUA people and some of your posters say does seem to have some credence. For example, if I get into better shape, deliberately wear nicer clothes, project an air of confidence (even if it's false), I notice I get better responses even here in America--particularly so if I say very positive things. I have done a lot of experiments testing this sort of thing. I am always hesitant to follow through on acting this way, however, because it is not really me. I actually prefer to be a slob and do not keep myself in the shape I could.

FWIW, I think you are a pretty decent-looking guy who could probably improve your looks by losing some weight and adding some muscle, as some in your forum have pointed out. I also agree that some women will find you attractive, some will not--tastes vary considerably.

Finally, I think the answer to your question in your subject line should be rather obvious. You are one of the few "gurus" running a web site who openly discusses your ambivalence, insecurities, relationship problems, etc. Consider the many other blogs/forums that you read. Can you imagine someone like Pat Flynn doing this, or a Ross Jeffries? Sure, Jeffries used to admit he was "ugly" but he would always use this as supposed proof of the infallibility of his system. I used to be a member of his Usenet PUA forum, Alt.seduction.fast and also had quite a few personal conversations with him. Deep down, he was a very insecure man who really wanted "true love" and felt a certain emptiness with his PUA life--but he never admitted ANY of this on his forums and always projected an image of confidence and success.

I find your habit of admitting your own failures, doubts, insecurities, etc., sort of endearing and refreshing as you do not try to flaunt your expertise in every post and do not claim to have all the answers.

However, I am a very unusual man, and most members on a forum purporting that American and other Western men would be happier living abroad, or any forum attesting to some "truth," will be a bit taken aback if the forum leader expresses doubts about various issues in his life, particularly if they seem to go against the very nature of his web site.

Let's face it--most web site masters would paint a very rosy picture and would hide the less palatable details--you do not and thus you open yourself up to criticism. I do not necessarily think this is a bad thing, as it gives the forum far more authenticity and backs up your claims as a self-professed "truth" seeker. That said, it is also natural that it is going to invite personal attacks. Part of this is simple conditioning. Remember that the majority of your readers are Western males and though they may not be "typical" Western males in their thinking or lifestyles, they are accustomed to people in positions of power at least professing and projecting a certain air of competence, certainty and self-assuredness. Just consider the difference between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan--Carter, a nuclear engineer--reaped MUCH scorn when he said the country was in a "malaise." This was perceived by the American people as "weakness" and Carter was vehemently lambasted by many Americans for using this terminology. There is no doubt his "truth-telling" hurt him in the 1980 election which Reagan won. Reagan, now venerated as an almost godlike figure by the far-conservative right, by contrast, was always positive, always using homespun homilies and feel-good phrases that had a wide appeal for people and made Americans feel good even when a lot of crazy and illegal shit was occurring such as the Iran-Contra scandal.

So, if you are going to put yourself and your foibles and insecurities out there for all to see, Winston, then you will have to expect a certain backlash from some people--many do not like to see chinks in the armor of those they admire, envy or who purport to have some answer to a puzzle such as how to be happier.
Is that true about my status on this forum? lol

The Reagan and Carter analogy was true. Carter was more honest, but Reagan was more fake and optimistic, and the American people preferred that more than honesty. I wonder if that rings true for the members of this forum too? I would hope not. But hey, they're only human.
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Post by Dogboy86 »

Dogs also can single out weak and vulnerable targets. Its in their nature and how they survive. Any person thinking they will walk away from a dog attack unscathed is foolish and naive. The average German shepherd dog will leave you bleeding in three places before there is time to react. They are fast and athletic, a violet encounter will leave you wishing you had chosen a differant path.
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Post by Winston »

Dogboy86 wrote:Dogs also can single out weak and vulnerable targets. Its in their nature and how they survive. Any person thinking they will walk away from a dog attack unscathed is foolish and naive. The average German shepherd dog will leave you bleeding in three places before there is time to react. They are fast and athletic, a violet encounter will leave you wishing you had chosen a differant path.
Most dogs are weaker than humans. If you approach a dog angrily, it will always run away, for it is more scared of you than you are of it. When I walk around dogs with an "I can kick your ass attitude", they no longer bother me anymore.
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Post by Dogboy86 »

I trained and have raised working dogs for over ten years Winston, there are more than a few of them I have a healthy respect for. I have trained cell extraction, handler protection, and alert dogs, I have decoyed and taken dog bites in training for this same length of time. If you were to step with your foolish attitude to any of the dogs I have trained you would be taking a trip to the ER and your tail between your legs. I am not saying this out of pride, but experience. I have used dogs in setting when most would fear even step foot, max and super max correctional facility's. If the worst of the worst will cuff up when they see a dog coming maybe you should rethink your logic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQWskxxLV0
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Post by Dogboy86 »

"Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity"!!!
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Post by Winston »

Dogboy86 wrote:I trained and have raised working dogs for over ten years Winston, there are more than a few of them I have a healthy respect for. I have trained cell extraction, handler protection, and alert dogs, I have decoyed and taken dog bites in training for this same length of time. If you were to step with your foolish attitude to any of the dogs I have trained you would be taking a trip to the ER and your tail between your legs. I am not saying this out of pride, but experience. I have used dogs in setting when most would fear even step foot, max and super max correctional facility's. If the worst of the worst will cuff up when they see a dog coming maybe you should rethink your logic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQWskxxLV0
Dude, what is your problem? I'm not talking about trained attack dogs. I'm talking about everyday dogs you see on the street and in neighborhoods. They all run off if I approach them with hostile body language. I'm just being honest. Sorry if you don't like honesty. I don't know what your problem is.
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Post by Dogboy86 »

Hahahaha! No problem with honesty in the least, so please be honest with yourself. Your telling me you can tell the difference between a trained dog and an untrained dog... Please enlighten me what the ques are and how have you physicality prepared for a violent encounter with said dog of unknown training? I'm not picking on you Winston... please don't take this as a personal affront... You are not a hard man Winston, you have not the training, skill or physical ability to back your bravado...
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Post by Seeker »

Winston wrote:
But I thought only high school kids do that. Adults do it too? Even when I'm in a group of friends, it happens too.

How do you explain the clothes thing in high school that I described above, where kids who wore the same checkered shirt everyday and smelled didn't get picked on or told that they dressed badly, but I did?

I'm not weaker than average, by the way. Ever since I was 12, I could beat most guys my age in arm wrestling, by using a few techniques, not just brute strength.
Young boys are the absolute worst for that kind of behaviour, it seems to peak in late childhood and early adolescence. Grown men are a lot more accepting than young boys towards people who appear weak in some way but this behaviour doesn't seem to go away completely, as you've discovered. What sort of things do your "friends" make fun of you about? To be honest it's very easy and tempting to mock you but I'm restraining myself, not that you deserve it.

You certainly LOOK significantly weaker than average, and I'm sure that visual assessment is accurate in your case. You mentioned hitting your toddler son (nearly) full force before, leaving aside the inappropriateness of this and questions of child abuse he wasn't even slightly injured so you surely can't hit very hard. Also weren't you beaten up on a semi-regular basis at school?

Is that true about my status on this forum? lol
You know it is, you just deleted a post agreeing with me about it.
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Post by Winston »

Dogboy86 wrote:Hahahaha! No problem with honesty in the least, so please be honest with yourself. Your telling me you can tell the difference between a trained dog and an untrained dog... Please enlighten me what the ques are and how have you physicality prepared for a violent encounter with said dog of unknown training? I'm not picking on you Winston... please don't take this as a personal affront... You are not a hard man Winston, you have not the training, skill or physical ability to back your bravado...
I never said that. We are talking about street dogs and neighborhood dogs, the kind you see everyday.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that I know how to scare dogs away? It is very easy. Anyone can do it. Why are you contesting this? If you come here, I can show you easily.

That's why I've conquered my fear of dogs long ago.

Don't underestimate me, you frickin bully.

I know what I am. And what I am is not dictated by what you say I am.
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Post by Winston »

Seeker wrote:
Winston wrote:
But I thought only high school kids do that. Adults do it too? Even when I'm in a group of friends, it happens too.

How do you explain the clothes thing in high school that I described above, where kids who wore the same checkered shirt everyday and smelled didn't get picked on or told that they dressed badly, but I did?

I'm not weaker than average, by the way. Ever since I was 12, I could beat most guys my age in arm wrestling, by using a few techniques, not just brute strength.
Young boys are the absolute worst for that kind of behaviour, it seems to peak in late childhood and early adolescence. Grown men are a lot more accepting than young boys towards people who appear weak in some way but this behaviour doesn't seem to go away completely, as you've discovered. What sort of things do your "friends" make fun of you about? To be honest it's very easy and tempting to mock you but I'm restraining myself, not that you deserve it.

You certainly LOOK significantly weaker than average, and I'm sure that visual assessment is accurate in your case. You mentioned hitting your toddler son (nearly) full force before, leaving aside the inappropriateness of this and questions of child abuse he wasn't even slightly injured so you surely can't hit very hard. Also weren't you beaten up on a semi-regular basis at school?

Is that true about my status on this forum? lol
You know it is, you just deleted a post agreeing with me about it.
They just make me the butt of jokes and tease me. Why do you feel the need to mock me? Just cause I look weak? Are you saying you're still a boy too? lol

How come other guys who look like me don't get mocked or ganged up against? Isn't that kind of animalistic and dysfunctional?

I thought Sesame Street, Mister Rogers and Disney told me that kids were nice and that if I was a good boy, everyone would like me. So why then was I mocked and bullied for doing nothing wrong? Isn't that insane and unjust?

I hit my child in the BUTT. That's why he wasn't injured. Duh. A baby can take hard hits in the butt and not be injured. That's why they are spanked there.

No I wasn't beaten up in school that much. I was just mocked and teased. Are you seeing what you want to see? lol

You seem to be getting off on this. That doesn't speak well of you. At least I don't bully people.

Well the post I deleted came from swincor, who is not allowed on this forum and has been banned many times.

So are you showing if I show any sign of weakness and doubt, then people like you will pounce on it like wild dogs? Isn't that dysfunctional and insane? Rational people don't do that.

If so, should I start exuding fake positive confidence all the time and admit no faults, like everyone else is? Would you like that? Or do you prefer that I be myself?
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Post by Seeker »

Winston wrote: They just make me the butt of jokes and tease me. Why do you feel the need to mock me? Just cause I look weak? Are you saying you're still a boy too? lol

How come other guys who look like me don't get mocked or ganged up against? Isn't that kind of animalistic and dysfunctional?

I thought Sesame Street, Mister Rogers and Disney told me that kids were nice and that if I was a good boy, everyone would like me. So why then was I mocked and bullied for doing nothing wrong? Isn't that insane and unjust?

I hit my child in the BUTT. That's why he wasn't injured. Duh. A baby can take hard hits in the butt and not be injured. That's why they are spanked there.

No I wasn't beaten up in school that much. I was just mocked and teased. Are you seeing what you want to see? lol

You seem to be getting off on this. That doesn't speak well of you. At least I don't bully people.

Well the post I deleted came from swincor, who is not allowed on this forum and has been banned many times.

So are you showing if I show any sign of weakness and doubt, then people like you will pounce on it like wild dogs? Isn't that dysfunctional and insane? Rational people don't do that.

If so, should I start exuding fake positive confidence all the time and admit no faults, like everyone else is? Would you like that? Or do you prefer that I be myself?
Sometimes I wonder if you're just trolling us, it's hard to believe someone could have such a lack of awareness regarding how they come across to others. Do you know WHY you're considered a figure of fun to be mocked and teased? Do you understand why it's so fun and tempting to mock you? For the mockers you're almost too priceless to be real. It's amusing just how obsessed with yourself you are, look how many times you link to quotes from others about yourself, only insecure people do things like that. You can't be absolved from blame when you're just setting yourself up to be mocked. Why is it that you've been called a troll at practically every forum you've been on. I've been on two forums where you gracelessly showed up, from one you were banned quickly even though it was full of guys who were into the global dating thing, on the other you were mocked and questioned before you ran away and this was a forum full of nice, shy guys.

In your case the abuse is due to (perceived) low status and weakness, plus a huge ego, it's just asking for trouble.

Regarding hitting your son, wherever you hit the little dude I don't care if it was his ass or his face you hit a toddler nearly full force out of anger, that is really sad, pathetic and unacceptable (and should be illegal). The hostility against you really cranked up after that.
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Post by Winston »

I just tell the truth. If you can't handle it, then it's YOUR problem.

Most people here have far worse skeletons in the closet than I do.

Women tend to tell me that I have a far better personality than most a-hole jerk guys they've met.

FYI, I'm very well liked and complimented on the David Icke Forum and the ATS Forum, as well as others. I do not do long drawn out debates. How would I have time for that? I just present my evidence and go.

You have no legitimate reason to mock me. It's your problem.

Most people here don't make fun of me. I have a long standing reputation of truth and integrity and credibility.

Jeff (user name World Traveler) says that my trip reports are the only ones that he believes, because I'm the only guy he knows that will tell the truth even if it makes me look bad. So I'm more believable than other guys out there. He says I am one of only two guys he believes.

Spanking is not illegal. It's a tradition people have done for thousands of years. Your bullying and mocking should be illegal. I am not a weak target. If I was, I'd let you win the debate and run away. You just falsely perceive me as a weak target. I know many guys who are far weaker.
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