Article: The Dark Side Of Early Retirement

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Yohan
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Re: Article: The Dark Side Of Early Retirement

Post by Yohan »

WorldTraveler wrote:
April 27th, 2020, 2:18 am
@Yohan I never could understand why someone would want to buy a condo in Thailand or Philippines. I'd be afraid the government could change the rules at anytime. Also apartment rent is very cheap in these countries, so why own? I also don't understand why men come to SEA and buy big SUVs and try to replicate their lives in the West. The last thing I'd want to do is have a big house and a big car in SEA. My whole reason for living overseas is to have a different type of life.
It depends where you are living and what are your needs, personally I do not like a life-style out of a suitcase.

For our Japanese family members to own a condominium unit in Thailand as 'second home' is really comfortable, I even have two, a larger one near beach in Pattaya/Jomtien with a huge swimmingpool and a smaller one in Pattaya City center.

During the last 17 years I never had to pay any rent and never used hotel rooms for our vacation, I also have my own small motorcycle, Thai driving licence and Thai banking account...especially winter is nice, I do not like cold weather.

If you live somewhere in the States, this is a long journey and costs money. You have to consider that. However Japan is not so far away from Thailand, about 5 hours from Osaka to Bangkok, we keep many things in our condominium units in Pattaya/Jomtien and when we travel, we carry only a handbag with passport, creditcards, keys for the rooms etc... No luggage at all. Airfares are also cheap, last time for AirAsia I paid only USD 250,- for the return ticket per person.

Since my retirement 3 years ago I spend about 4 to 5 months in Thailand in one year, coming and leaving 3 or 4 times, but also our 2 daughters and their families are using them and some friends from Europe are also coming sometimes for a visit. We really use these rooms.

So why not to buy...?

It's of course a difference what you buy and to which price and exchange rate. I bought the condominium units open to legal sale to foreigners when the Thai Baht was really low and all together for both of them I paid totally about USD 60.000,-. We use them since 17 years already frequently.
Every time I come I do some repairings, some improvements, really nice living now for me within in my own rooms - I am the owner and no Thai landlord can kick me out. No rent, only service fees.

-------------------------------

Some rich foreigners are suffering of megalomania, they buy in Thailand property from investors/developers up to 80 million baht per unit (about USD 2.5 million) and these are not condominium units for foreigners, but entire large villas located on a huge landplot and the Thai law says clearly as a foreigner you cannot buy and own that in your own name.

They buy not just a simple car, but several expensive vehicles and large motorcycles to show up, and some of them even buy entire ships solely for private use... I would NEVER spend such a huge amount of money in Thailand, just too much - even if I had this money...

Family is another issue, some foreigners with Thai wife send their children to an international school, expect for example for the Regent Pattaya School fees of more than baht 550.000,- (USD 15.000,- or more per child per year).
https://www.nordangliaeducation.com/en/ ... es-2019-20

Honstly, who needs 7 bedrooms, 9 bathrooms, 715 sqm home with private swimmingpool and landplot of 14700 sqm only for vacation for one family? This is crazy, to take care of that you need a maintenance company...such places need staff 24 h, or burglars will show up and take away everything.
https://www.thailand-property.com/7-bed ... uri_794200

I can only tell you Thailand is not so cheap as some people expect it to be. Even rich people are surprised, when they receive their first invoices.
If you are suddenly out of your job in a highly paid international company, your working permit is void, everything is more or less lost, straight into divorce and bankruptcy, direction airport and go home... end of the dream in the land of smiles...

-------------------------

However there are not so few foreigners from Europe like me too, often Germans or people from Scandinavia doing the same, 1000s of them, also young people, who buy a moderate priced comfortable 1 or 2 room unit in Thailand in a large condominium building, spending 4-5 months there and then again back for working and to keep social services for retirement allowance and health insurance etc. alive in their own native country. - Doing this they never run out of money and they have a good escape route if something is really going wrong.

If I calculate approx. 20 years we are using our own rooms for several months each year in Thailand vs. hotel invoices/rent for the same time, I think I did not suffer any financial loss so far.

What do you think?


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MatureDJ
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Re: Article: The Dark Side Of Early Retirement

Post by MatureDJ »

CannedHam wrote:
April 26th, 2020, 1:10 pm
It's very cheap to live a "poor" lifestyle in these countries. It's very expensive to live a "middle class" or higher lifestyle that's comparable in quality to what you'd get in your (western) home country in terms of medicine, transportation, accommodations, food quality, and so on.

A lot of these older guys become lonely/desperate and end up getting played by an opportunist woman (usually a prostitute or a poor woman looking to bankroll her family) that will extract whatever pennies she can from him and leave him destitute. I would say that the chance of these guys finding "real" love is very, very low. Seriously, have you seen the average 60+ year old expat in SE Asia?

And alcoholism is a real problem when these guys have access to dirt cheap booze and don't have a job, wife, hobbies, responsibilities, family, etc.

I think it's possible to make it work. But it's not anywhere near as easy as people make it out to be. My sister in law lives in Peru, and she pays out the ass for things like western-quality private dental care - much more than we pay in the US for the same quality. After she told me what private school would cost in Peru (the quality which is probably on par with an average US public school tbh) I nearly spit out my coffee. Of course you can get a dumpy flat in the ghetto in Lima for $100/month, but a decent newer 2BR condo in a great area of Lima where most westerner would want to live will probably be at least $1000USD/month. My wife's friend just bought a house in nice area of Panama - he paid $325k!
I don't live abroad full-time. I actually have a major hobby (pinball) that requires me to go home to indulge in it, so I spend about 2-3 months per year at home in the USA (I have a cheap house, but I plan to get a little nicer one). These trips back allow me to use the ACA benefits to get regular dental & medical care (FREE!), so I only see a physician when it's an urgent issue, and I haven't had to do that for 7 years - and that was a just a regular office visit. (I'm in the former USSR, St. Pete.) My rent for a decent apartment is only about $400/mo rent. I'm about to get an implant tooth replaced (i.e., the insert itself) and it is cheaper than even the cheap place I go for dental care in the USA.

The key to shoestring retirement is to not blow the money around. if you become a walking farang ATM machine, then you get what you deserve. I think a good way to think about it is to not spend any more on your poontang that you dating/married to then you would on a professional.
CannedHam
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Joined: May 27th, 2012, 9:25 am

Re: Article: The Dark Side Of Early Retirement

Post by CannedHam »

MatureDJ wrote:
May 30th, 2020, 12:07 pm
CannedHam wrote:
April 26th, 2020, 1:10 pm
It's very cheap to live a "poor" lifestyle in these countries. It's very expensive to live a "middle class" or higher lifestyle that's comparable in quality to what you'd get in your (western) home country in terms of medicine, transportation, accommodations, food quality, and so on.

A lot of these older guys become lonely/desperate and end up getting played by an opportunist woman (usually a prostitute or a poor woman looking to bankroll her family) that will extract whatever pennies she can from him and leave him destitute. I would say that the chance of these guys finding "real" love is very, very low. Seriously, have you seen the average 60+ year old expat in SE Asia?

And alcoholism is a real problem when these guys have access to dirt cheap booze and don't have a job, wife, hobbies, responsibilities, family, etc.

I think it's possible to make it work. But it's not anywhere near as easy as people make it out to be. My sister in law lives in Peru, and she pays out the ass for things like western-quality private dental care - much more than we pay in the US for the same quality. After she told me what private school would cost in Peru (the quality which is probably on par with an average US public school tbh) I nearly spit out my coffee. Of course you can get a dumpy flat in the ghetto in Lima for $100/month, but a decent newer 2BR condo in a great area of Lima where most westerner would want to live will probably be at least $1000USD/month. My wife's friend just bought a house in nice area of Panama - he paid $325k!
I don't live abroad full-time. I actually have a major hobby (pinball) that requires me to go home to indulge in it, so I spend about 2-3 months per year at home in the USA (I have a cheap house, but I plan to get a little nicer one). These trips back allow me to use the ACA benefits to get regular dental & medical care (FREE!), so I only see a physician when it's an urgent issue, and I haven't had to do that for 7 years - and that was a just a regular office visit. (I'm in the former USSR, St. Pete.) My rent for a decent apartment is only about $400/mo rent. I'm about to get an implant tooth replaced (i.e., the insert itself) and it is cheaper than even the cheap place I go for dental care in the USA.

The key to shoestring retirement is to not blow the money around. if you become a walking farang ATM machine, then you get what you deserve. I think a good way to think about it is to not spend any more on your poontang that you dating/married to then you would on a professional.
That's a good plan. I've paid taxes for years in the US so I definitely plan to reap whatever benefits I can even when we move abroad. I've also encountered numerous full-time expats who have had a lot of issues (esp banking) because they don't have permanent US address. Keeping a small base back in the US isn't a bad plan at all. And yeah, some guys unfortunately "overindulge" and lose track of their money - it can go really really quick even in a "cheaper" country like Thailand unless you are truly loaded...
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