Article: The Dark Side Of Early Retirement

[Yohan]

I've digged into many atheists lives ....

1. They are angry at God for the suffering and tragedies and pain in their lives. Or for the suffering of others, the world, and their loved ones. Which is understandable of course. We've all blamed God for our problems to some degree.

I thought this tread was about "The Dark Side of Early Retirement?" Why is this a debate about atheist and not retirement?

I think so too, this thread should be about 'the dark side of early retirement' - really a good and interesting topic.

I don't know what this has to do with the universe or with God...

This all was starting with

Winston wrote: ↑Wed Apr 22, 2020 2:48 pm
But Yohan, don't you regret not retirning earlier? Also some people even if they run out of money, are protected. The universe or God helps them out and finds a way for them to continue to exist

And I replied...

I don't believe in protection by the universe and I do not believe in God...

And let me add, I am an atheist out of many reasons, and I am surely not angry with 'God'.... How can I (and atheists in general) be angry with something which does not exist?

That's all I can say about it. I don't know what else to reply to Winston, no idea why he writes such long stories about God in this 'dark side of early retirement' thread.

[Yohan]

@Yohan you make a good point. Moving abroad to discover a new culture and possibly get a better life standard doesn't equate to living in paradise. A man, especially, certainly needs to find something to do - a local job or an online/mobile activity - else whatever savings he has will be gone soon!

I found myself in the same situation. When I accepted to work here in Pasay, I was offered a delayed start because my Exec was himself on holiday and the Manager wanted me to start with him. I could have spent at least another 2 weeks doing absolutely nothing (oh well, doing "that thing" ) but I said no, I wanted the contract and the start there and then. I started from the following Monday, I still had a bit of jet lag in me.

It kind of struck me that I was one of the lucky one, to have a legit job in the Philippines. In this country, as it is surely in Thailand and other SEA places, the jobs a foreigner can have is very limited. Chefs are a special class because of the many international resort groups present. I also met at least half a dozen foreign "pizza chefs", some of whom Italian, who were working illegally for a pay very close to that of a Filipino equivalent. There were in there for the adventure, surely not for the money. Only one of them dared admit that his lifestyle wasn't that great and the working hours were horrible.

I understand you migrated to Japan in a different time from now. Were jobs easier to find in Japan compared to now? May I ask you what kind of jobs you found? And, for a bit of national pride, I guess you must have heard of Salvatore Cuomo? He is an Italian-Japanese chef who opened successful pizza franchises all over Asia. He even owns two restaurants here in Manila!

Hi, thanks for this comment and to answer your question, in Tokyo I had no problems about jobs, I could already read a lot of Chinese and could speak Japanese (I was working in Europe in a travel agency) and I am a native German speaker, but also can use English and French too.

After arrival I did about the same as you. I was sleeping one day, next day I was calling up various companies/businesses. Tokyo is full with foreign related businesses, like international hotels, restaurants, international schools, import/export companies, shipping cargo by air and ship, foreign government/semi-government related offices etc. etc.

Jobs easier or more difficult, this depends on your qualification I would say. If you come as a Western young foreigner as a so-called 'English teacher' without anything else to offer, you still find a poorly paid job in a low-level language school, at least they are able to regulate your visa and offer you a room where you can stay as a first start. Many leave after a few months going home, some others study something and try to find a better job....

About myself, I was never on a spouse visa (did not exist anyway when I entered Japan 40 years ago).
I am now a Japanese permanent resident for life, regardless my family status.

The third day, still tired, I was starting to work in a small BMW-related company, which was buying car-parts and used cars from Germany and selling them to private customers and other small shops and also doing some car repairs only for BMW, about 20 Japanese workers were there and were looking for a native German speaker, because at that time there was no internet, all was done by phone, telex and letters. All manuals in German and English only were on microfilm at that time. Japanese are not good in foreign language, I had plenty of work to do and received an ordinary Japanese salary from the first day on.

Later on I started to work for some semi-government offices - for Africa - for Arabs - for Eastern Europe.

Finally during the last 25 years I was a regular employee for the EU-trade chamber office in Tokyo up to my retirement doing just any kind of work. This was good for me as my working contract was European, and I was entitled to receive a good retirement allowance when 65 from Europe, all my years working in Europe were added to my retirement allowance calculation and I had up to 6 weeks fully paid vacation.

The only problem, sometimes annoying, was irregular working time.... airplanes from Europe are arriving on Sunday morning with visitors, plenty of cargo by ship for events/exhibitions often on banking holidays, plenty of heavy items to transport like printed matters or samples of wine bottles and machinery parts, long drives to somewhere to Japanese factories etc. etc.

I have a Japanese heavy truck/full-size bus driving licence and also a Japanese technician licence, so I could drive myself visitors renting a bus, picking up any cargo by truck for exhibitions in the ports and do the custom clearance myself, also had to service the computer network of the office, prepare all required electric/electronic installations for presentations somewhere on fairgrounds etc.... It was never boring I have to say.

My European contract was clear - 65 and out, replaced by somebody else who is younger. I retired almost 3 years ago, we moved to a smaller city with nice forests and river nearby in Western Japan and we bought a condominium unit for us. We also have another second home in Thailand, I bought it about 15 years ago where we spent our holidays...Plenty of time now for me to rest and not to be worried about anything... I do not regret my relocation to Asia...

[hypermak]

Hi, thanks for this comment and to answer your question, in Tokyo I had no problems about jobs, I could already read a lot of Chinese and could speak Japanese (I was working in Europe in a travel agency) and I am a native German speaker, but also can use English and French too.

After arrival I did about the same as you. I was sleeping one day, next day I was calling up various companies/businesses. Tokyo is full with foreign related businesses, like international hotels, restaurants, international schools, import/export companies, shipping cargo by air and ship, foreign government/semi-government related offices etc. etc.

Jobs easier or more difficult, this depends on your qualification I would say. If you come as a Western young foreigner as a so-called 'English teacher' without anything else to offer, you still find a poorly paid job in a low-level language school, at least they are able to regulate your visa and offer you a room where you can stay as a first start. Many leave after a few months going home, some others study something and try to find a better job....

About myself, I was never on a spouse visa (did not exist anyway when I entered Japan 40 years ago).
I am now a Japanese permanent resident for life, regardless my family status.

The third day, still tired, I was starting to work in a small BMW-related company, which was buying car-parts and used cars from Germany and selling them to private customers and other small shops and also doing some car repairs only for BMW, about 20 Japanese workers were there and were looking for a native German speaker, because at that time there was no internet, all was done by phone, telex and letters. All manuals in German and English only were on microfilm at that time. Japanese are not good in foreign language, I had plenty of work to do and received an ordinary Japanese salary from the first day on.

Later on I started to work for some semi-government offices - for Africa - for Arabs - for Eastern Europe.

Finally during the last 25 years I was a regular employee for the EU-trade chamber office in Tokyo up to my retirement doing just any kind of work. This was good for me as my working contract was European, and I was entitled to receive a good retirement allowance when 65 from Europe, all my years working in Europe were added to my retirement allowance calculation and I had up to 6 weeks fully paid vacation.

The only problem, sometimes annoying, was irregular working time.... airplanes from Europe are arriving on Sunday morning with visitors, plenty of cargo by ship for events/exhibitions often on banking holidays, plenty of heavy items to transport like printed matters or samples of wine bottles and machinery parts, long drives to somewhere to Japanese factories etc. etc.

I have a Japanese heavy truck/full-size bus driving licence and also a Japanese technician licence, so I could drive myself visitors renting a bus, picking up any cargo by truck for exhibitions in the ports and do the custom clearance myself, also had to service the computer network of the office, prepare all required electric/electronic installations for presentations somewhere on fairgrounds etc.... It was never boring I have to say.

My European contract was clear - 65 and out, replaced by somebody else who is younger. I retired almost 3 years ago, we moved to a smaller city with nice forests and river nearby in Western Japan and we bought a condominium unit for us. We also have another second home in Thailand, I bought it about 15 years ago where we spent our holidays...Plenty of time now for me to rest and not to be worried about anything... I do not regret my relocation to Asia...

Thanks so much for describing your professional life in detail. Wow, you certainly had an amazing life in Japan, entering 40 years ago well before the age of globalisation. I heard Japanese economy was booming in the 80s and everybody was living a good life. I am sure you got to partake in that positive turn of things. Smart move, that of using your native tongue as an ice-breaker.

I have a couple of friends (from culinary school in Italy) and one UK colleague who worked in Japan, one of them for almost 4 years. Japanese culture kind of brainwashed my generation with an endless supply of cartoons, so it's hard to find an Italian who is totally indifferent to discovering more about Japanese and its culture, given a chance.

The reason that kept me from going to Japan is what these people told me: yes, there is the initial excitement of being a revered "gatekeeper of Italian cuisine" and even the Japanese Execs will hold you to a level of respect that is possibly higher than what you deserve. The excitement kind of disappears when you realise that, at least in their cases, friendly people doesn't equate to "friends" and once you become part of the kitchen and chefs and souses junior than you have learned from you, you basically become a nobody. The only way is to find investors who believe in you and hep you starting your own franchise, like in Salvatore Cuomo's case. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to happen these days, perhaps because of the recession and food companies not wanting to take risks.

[Yohan]

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[Yohan]

....you hate God for some tragedy in your life or the suffering you've experienced? When you dig deep down into an Atheist's motivation, that's usually what it comes down to.

Wow, I never knew. So is everyone over in Japan hating on God for their life's suffering? Since most of the population of that land is effectively atheist.

I think it is more the opposite, religious Christian and Muslim bigots are hating everybody who disagree with them and is refusing to join them.

It is true that many Japanese are not very religious - or better let me ask, what is the definition of 'religious'.

Buddhism is not teaching anything about 'God'. Is a Buddhist therefore an 'atheist'?

About the situation in Japan:
Christianity is not very successful in approaching the Japanese people. Also Christians are not unified, there are various groups which compete against each other. There are Catholics and Protestants from Europe, Jehovahs and Mormons from USA... rather small communities, often guided by foreigners - from USA, from Philippines, from Brazil, from South Korea....Maybe 2 millions or less all together out of 127 million Japanese and foreign born residents.

Islam has not much to say in Japan. The few Muslims you can see sometimes are from Indonesia or Malaysia or Bangladesh...
Some Hindu from India....

Genuine Japanese Christians in larger groups you find only in a few places, like in Nagasaki or in Yamaguchi, where the first missionaries arrived...
In South Korea the situation is different, Buddhism is declining and Christianity is increasing.

If somebody in Japan is asking you to join Christianity you can be sure he is from South Korea. There are also Japanese showing up sometimes asking to join Shinto and Buddhist groups.

About 80 percent of all Japanese are linked to small private temples of various Buddhist sects like Tendai, Tenri, Jodo, Nichiren, Shingon etc. because they own a family grave there, they also offer some donation frequently to the Japanese Shinto religion to participate with some celebrations and use the shrines for blessing of birth and marriage, they pray also directly to the Buddha asking for help, also often to the Hase Kannon for consideration of personal problems, there is no limitation to what you are asking and to what 'mystic power' you pray...

Many ordinary Japanese people, old and young, when passing by a Shinto Shrine or a Buddha statue next to a temple will stop and bow, ring a bell, clap with their hands and do a short prayer - I cannot confirm that so many Japanese are true atheists.

Christians and Muslims consider Hindus and Buddhists as 'pagans' - almost similar to atheists. They fail to accept the fact that there are also other religions, created somewhere else in this world which have nothing in common with the Bible and the Quran.

[flowerthief00]

Christians and Muslims consider Hindus and Buddhists as 'pagans' - almost similar to atheists. They fail to accept the fact that there are also other religions, created somewhere else in this world which have nothing in common with the Bible and the Quran.

It has been said that religious people are themselves atheists in regards to every religion on the planet (of which there are thousands) except one. Also remarkable to me is how little interest they typically exhibit in learning about all those other religions.

Winston, you are still mischaracterizing evolution! It is not just randomness that makes it happen. For evolution to work there must be a selection mechanism acting on the randomness, specifically natural selection. That is how some genetic information is able to become successful and to grow in complexity, while other genetic information fades out of existence. There could be other mechanisms at play as well which we don't understand yet, but natural selection is part of it for sure. You left mention of that out of every paragraph insisting that atheists believe in information from randomness.

There's more I want to say in reply, A LOT more, but I don't mean to derail the thread.

[CannedHam]

My plan to is to quit the rat race sometime in my 50s. But I have a ton of hobbies that would immediately fill the time - language learning, writing open source software, keeping up with technology, working out/hiking, spending time with family/friends. My wife and I would probably spend a few months every year in China, assuming it's still habitable for foreigners by then.

I have seen numerous cases where a guy "retires" in his 50s or 60s with a meager pension and savings, goes to SE Asia alone, and loses it all.

[Shemp]

There is a concept called "age of ambition". When you are young, you are filled with energy and determination to make a mark on the world and impress people. For most people, youth is an unhappy period precisely because they care too much about what other people think, but at least you can take advantage of this natural tendency by setting yourself up for early retirement and financial independence in old age, when you no longer care so much about other people. That is, instead of wasting your youth trying to impress people with your notch count or countries visited and whatnot, use your desire to impress to push you to get rich, in hopes of impressing them that way. You will surely fail to impress regardless, because people are naturally envious and will deny you the satisfaction of being impressed by you no matter what you accomplish, but at least by chasing money, you have something of value when you arrive at old age.

Nothing more horrible than being in your 50's and still forced to work, especially if you've been downsized and no longer have a cushy corporate job and no prospects of ever again getting one. Add bad health to the equation and life is hardly worth living. No wonder lots of people in this situation increasingly do commit suicide.

I don't mean to derail the thread.

Since when has anyone at this forum cared about staying on topic?

[Yohan]

I have seen numerous cases where a guy "retires" in his 50s or 60s with a meager pension and savings, goes to SE Asia alone, and loses it all.

Me too. Such guys, when getting old, have a very poor life in SE Asia.

Many of them make the mistake that they can continue in SE Asia a very cheap but comfortable life similar to locals, who can survive with really very little money.

However the reality of life is different - foreigners have often expenses which a local never will face.

This is starting with visa-longstay fees, which are often costly and require a guarantee money deposit - medical care especially when getting older etc.

If I check my own expenses while in Thailand (about 4-5 months a year) I cannot always eat what the locals eat, I prefer comfortable rooms in a good condominium unit with large swimmingpool, now near to 70s I noticed some payments for medical doctors and I do not want to line up with poor locals waiting in front of a government hospital for hours - my neighbor next door in similar financial position like myself likes to drive a car and does not like to use a cheap motorcycle to go around, others do not want to stay alone and pay for a local girl... this costs all money... and a foreigner is only welcome in such countries if he has money...

Comparing living costs now in Thailand for a foreigner with a meager retirement allowance from UK starting with 68 I guess after all savings were gone - what a poor life, where you have to consider every single Thai Baht you spend... Thailand is not such a cheap place...

And even foreigners with money fail sometimes... I knew a guy who had money, but if you live in such a place like in Thailand, Pattaya for years you need to move away from time to time, as this is not a place known for intelligent activities openly said. This is a holiday city with bars and girls. You become an idiot, talk only with other similar guys about stupid things, finally ending up in alcohol... one of these guys I am talking about was not poor, but in his final year he was drinking DAILY about 30 cans of beer and 2 bottles of whisky - and when his face/especially eyes were in yellow and he had more than 140 kg and vomitting blood, what can a medical doctor really do about it...

I know several foreigners who had money. They did not end up in bankruptcy but in alcohol.

[CannedHam]

I have seen numerous cases where a guy "retires" in his 50s or 60s with a meager pension and savings, goes to SE Asia alone, and loses it all.

Me too. Such guys, when getting old, have a very poor life in SE Asia.

Many of them make the mistake that they can continue in SE Asia a very cheap but comfortable life similar to locals, who can survive with really very little money.

However the reality of life is different - foreigners have often expenses which a local never will face.

This is starting with visa-longstay fees, which are often costly and require a guarantee money deposit - medical care especially when getting older etc.

If I check my own expenses while in Thailand (about 4-5 months a year) I cannot always eat what the locals eat, I prefer comfortable rooms in a good condominium unit with large swimmingpool, now near to 70s I noticed some payments for medical doctors and I do not want to line up with poor locals waiting in front of a government hospital for hours - my neighbor next door in similar financial position like myself likes to drive a car and does not like to use a cheap motorcycle to go around, others do not want to stay alone and pay for a local girl... this costs all money... and a foreigner is only welcome in such countries if he has money...

Comparing living costs now in Thailand for a foreigner with a meager retirement allowance from UK starting with 68 I guess after all savings were gone - what a poor life, where you have to consider every single Thai Baht you spend... Thailand is not such a cheap place...

And even foreigners with money fail sometimes... I knew a guy who had money, but if you live in such a place like in Thailand, Pattaya for years you need to move away from time to time, as this is not a place known for intelligent activities openly said. This is a holiday city with bars and girls. You become an idiot, talk only with other similar guys about stupid things, finally ending up in alcohol... one of these guys I am talking about was not poor, but in his final year he was drinking DAILY about 30 cans of beer and 2 bottles of whisky - and when his face/especially eyes were in yellow and he had more than 140 kg and vomitting blood, what can a medical doctor really do about it...

I know several foreigners who had money. They did not end up in bankruptcy but in alcohol.

Good points all around. The whole cost argument I see people making is usually flawed because they assume that if the locals can live on $400USD/month, then having $1,000USD/month will make them live like kings LOL. The quality of life vs cost curve goes up exponentially - not straight up buddy. Each step up on the quality of life scale will cost more than the previous steps combined in these countries, not less.

It's very cheap to live a "poor" lifestyle in these countries. It's very expensive to live a "middle class" or higher lifestyle that's comparable in quality to what you'd get in your (western) home country in terms of medicine, transportation, accommodations, food quality, and so on.

A lot of these older guys become lonely/desperate and end up getting played by an opportunist woman (usually a prostitute or a poor woman looking to bankroll her family) that will extract whatever pennies she can from him and leave him destitute. I would say that the chance of these guys finding "real" love is very, very low. Seriously, have you seen the average 60+ year old expat in SE Asia?

And alcoholism is a real problem when these guys have access to dirt cheap booze and don't have a job, wife, hobbies, responsibilities, family, etc.

I think it's possible to make it work. But it's not anywhere near as easy as people make it out to be. My sister in law lives in Peru, and she pays out the ass for things like western-quality private dental care - much more than we pay in the US for the same quality. After she told me what private school would cost in Peru (the quality which is probably on par with an average US public school tbh) I nearly spit out my coffee. Of course you can get a dumpy flat in the ghetto in Lima for $100/month, but a decent newer 2BR condo in a great area of Lima where most westerner would want to live will probably be at least $1000USD/month. My wife's friend just bought a house in nice area of Panama - he paid $325k!

[WorldTraveler]

Yohan makes a good point - men retire to places like Thailand and do stupid shit ...

Thanks for your comment, Yick, you are so right.

Developing countries just don't care about Western foreigners. Foreigners are expected to have money and to pay. If they have no money anymore, either they are kicked out or they live in a slum...

In the last 40 years or so I met not such a small number of Western foreigners who failed totally in such places like Thailand - they never considered the possibility something could go wrong after moving from their own countries while still young... 30, 40 years old.

They totally IGNORE the fact, that they are FOREIGNERS, far away from their own countries and there is no social network existing for them.
They are merely welcome as tourists. Local salaries are low, they have no working permit either, they cannot speak the local language, they get in trouble with their proper documentation in such host countries for longstay and to regulate that all is not so easy and can be costly.

Such Western men are often ignorant, they do not consider that only a few decades later, they will be old - this is our future - we cannot escape to get older and older.

If you stop working in your own country when you are only 30 or 40 years old, you will likely end up when you are 65 with a tiny retirement allowance by far not enough for a comfortable life, neither in the developed country you are holding citizenship nor in any underdeveloped country as a foreigner.

Your savings are gone long time ago and your retirement allowance is likely not even USD 500,- per month. What can you do with that in Thailand is the question...These foreigners have to pay rent as they rarely own any property, they have to pay for medical care out of the own wallet and many people get some medical issues when they are approaching 70s, they have to pay a visa agent for guarantee and this is not cheap at all as their income is not enough to qualify for a retirement visa....and what is left over is a rather poor daily life - sitting in front of a 7/11 with a beer bottle and some cigarettes...

I met such a guy last time, I said 'Hello' and he was looking 'somehow through me', like if I am invisible. 70+, both eyes in grey. He told me he has now cataract in both eyes, he sees only grey shadows and has no money for eye surgery...even not for the cheapest cataract surgery only for one eye...

I also met a guy a while ago who arrived with more than USD 600.000,-, 52 years old, not so little money but no other income - he was thinking this is enough for the rest of his life. I was sceptical, calculated it in my way, and the result was 'it is not impossible, if you are really very careful with money and you spend it only for yourself in a modest way...' - However he got yellow fever, paid for girls, alcohol and an expensive car, invited for parties and renting an upper class house etc. etc. and 18 months later he left back home to Germany - with less than 200.000 USD in his account....at least he was not suicidal, understood his mistakes and was not bankrupt.

Another one tried to live from real estate, buying low-price property from locals and selling them to a much higher price to foreigners after renovation - it was working nicely for 10 years, he made a considerable profit... but during the last 5 years - no way. Any project he tried was a failure, a financial loss. Times are changing, also in Thailand.
He told me sadly something that 'he made mistakes with wrong investments...' He still has a little income with his Thai wife in a rural area operating a small shop living from one day to the other. Age is also another problem coming up slowly for him. His house is gone, now paying rent in a poor housing area - his car is gone - no hot water - eating the cheapest Thai food - just sitting in front of his door and watching the neighborhood.

Keep in mind, just my warning, relocation to cheap countries is NOT so easy, and can be risky.

This early retirement story has really nothing to do with living overseas. Living overseas has no affect on early retirement. Yes it maybe cheaper to live in Southeast Asia, South America, or Ukraine than the West, but that doesn't solve the problem of not having enough money. Yohan brings up all the broke losers he's met in SEA that aren't going to make it. There aren't any more losers in SEA only that we come into contact with them more frequently. There are as many in the West too, but they just blend in much better with the population. Just go to Florida or Nevada and you'll have 80 year old waitresses serving you. It basically boils down to, if you don't prepare for retirement by making as much money as possible, you will have a bad life or even be broke wherever you live. As I stated above, learn some skills that will allow you to make a big salary, then save it so you can retire. You don't have to work straight trough until you are 65. Darwinian evolution will weed out the stupids who didn't make smart decisions in life.

[yick]

I hate bringing it up, but Jester's sojourn in Thailand when he first got there is a FANTASTIC reminder of not stuffing your brain down your bollocks - if you know the story, he wanted a harem of women to have sex with but he wanted to do it on a shoestring budget, he moved his mia noi and her kid into his apartment, she baulked at his idea of having a harem despite agreeing to it initially because she was smart enough to know her income stream was going down the pan as soon as he started shagging other women and of course she wanted to keep his finances to herself , she managed to take 5000 dollars off him that he could ill afford on some harebrained business venture and he had to cut his losses, I think he is doing better in Cambodia or wherever he ended up.

You have to smarten up when you leave, there are desparately poor people ready to take your money off you. Yohan makes a good point about visas - as it has been shown with Thailand - they have just changed the rules and they do not give one single shit that you have invested your life into that country - they change the rules and the income requirements to keep hold of your visa and if you don't or you can't meet the new requirements then you are out of there!

Thankfully, I have a second passport so no problem! However, a foreigner getting a second passport from an Asian country is very difficult (Japan, South Korea) or impossible (China, Thailand) What do you do if you are in your seventies and you have your place in Pattaya and you're getting on by but they just change the rules one day and you are not eligble anymore? Just pack up and go back to Frankfurt or Leeds or Bordeaux and start again?

Some old timers might be sensible - live within their means, retire in SE Asia because of the nice weather, food, might get a lovelife that they wouldn't be able to get back home etc - I don't mean whoring and boozing though there's plenty of that! Even if you have modest means, the sun on your back is worth a lot when you don't get it back in Northern Europe all that much. But the curveballs the government throws, there's nothing you can do about! That must be the most difficult thing about it all.

[Yohan]

... Yohan makes a good point about visas - as it has been shown with Thailand - they have just changed the rules and they do not give one single shit that you have invested your life into that country - they change the rules and the income requirements to keep hold of your visa and if you don't or you can't meet the new requirements then you are out of there!

Thankfully, I have a second passport so no problem! However, a foreigner getting a second passport from an Asian country is very difficult (Japan, South Korea) or impossible (China, Thailand) What do you do if you are in your seventies and you have your place in Pattaya and you're getting on by but they just change the rules one day and you are not eligble anymore? ...

At this moment concerning Thailand I am directly affected too.

I am owning 2 condominium units in Pattaya, and I was also holding a valid retirement visa since my retirement in 2017. However due to this corona-virus I cannot apply to a new retirement visa now as the Thai consulates everywhere suspended visa services, basically as a foreigner after you leave Thailand you cannot re-enter at this moment, except if you are Thai, or have Thai family, or have a valid working contract or you are a diplomat etc.

I also have some small savings in Thailand but cannot withdraw them now. - I can only wait, I had everything ready to renew my retirement visa and was planning to be in Thailand again in the middle of May. No way!

I am not worried however - I can wait, I am not in a hurry - it will change back again to normal within a few months after this virus is gone. Thailand restricted travel only because of the corona virus.

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Your advice, Yick, is valid, you never should invest all your money into Thailand as a foreigner - always keep a good escape route open where to go in case of trouble (like now with this virus, political unrest, divorce from a greedy Thai girl etc.) and always keep most of your money outside of this country (or other similar countries where you are nothing but a foreign visitor)

I think, Thailand is nice if you buy a moderate priced accommodation to spend the cold winter there (really better than a hotel room or renting something, just my experience so far over many years), keep a little savings in a local bank in case of a problem like a medical bill and to pay for house maintenance or in case your foreign cashcard does not work and you can use the local Thai debit card for shopping and no need to carry too much cash around etc.... but that's about it...

Don't buy large expensive housings, don't buy expensive cars, avoid to invest and waste money - especially not in case of 'early retirement' -
be aware they can kick you out any time, and you cannot do anything about it.

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In Thailand hwever there is often a solution possible, where no solution should be. Many low-income Western foreigners do not meet the requirements for long-stay, they have to pay a Thai visa guarantor for the next 12 months - not really the legal way to go - and it costs money about USD 400,-, but of course no Thai law firm works for free when serving foreigners...

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About Japan,
Agreement between my own EU-country and Japan does not permit a second citizenship, but I am a Japanese permanent resident for life.
However it is not easy to get permanent resident status which offers you various rights other foreigners do not have, but requirements are not easy to fulfill.

Spouse visa did not exist when I was entering Japan the first time more than 40 years ago, but now it works well as long as there is no problem with your marriage, almost same as permanent resident status. However I know about a foreigner from Europe, who was always only on a spouse visa - never qualified for independent visa status - for 20 years - with his Japanese wife. When she suddenly unexpected died because of a car accident, immigration office was asking him soon why he is still here...so what to do...

[WorldTraveler]

@Yohan I never could understand why someone would want to buy a condo in Thailand or Philippines. I'd be afraid the government could change the rules at anytime. Also apartment rent is very cheap in these countries, so why own? I also don't understand why men come to SEA and buy big SUVs and try to replicate their lives in the West. The last thing I'd want to do is have a big house and a big car in SEA. My whole reason for living overseas is to have a different type of life.

@yick I think Jester was stupid with his actions. Why have a women move with her kid if you want to shag other women. It doesn't make sense. It's like shitting where you eat. Also don't get into business dealings with Pinays. Most Pinays (or women from many other countries) will take your money from if you let them, but telling them no will stop them.

[yick]

@yick I think Jester was stupid with his actions

@WorldTraveler but f***ing hilarious though