Do extreme social conservatives tend to be economically center-left?

[Outcast9428]

In my time studying politics I’ve noticed that extreme social conservatives seem much more open to a small number of “socialist” policies compared to mainstream conservatives and even a lot of moderate liberals.

My parents for example have said that Viktor Orban’s policy of $30,000 loans for newly wed couples sounds kind of socialist. Viktor Orban is not the only one… Poland also has a pro family policy of giving $125 a month to families for each child they have. So a family with four kids could potentially get a $500 boost to their income.

Francisco Franco, the former ruler of Spain was also known for being extremely conservative but economically kind of left-wing. The same could be said about Hitler. In my general experience of talking to other people who I’d describe as extreme social conservatives, and I include myself, is that we tend to go against the typical notion that conservatives want smaller government and are always in favor of free market principles.

Extreme social conservatives usually want to fix problems using government policies and they tend to favor policies that mainstream conservatives think are too socialist.

Why do you think that is? Can you think of any examples of extreme social conservatives who are as pro free market as libertarians are?

[Cornfed]

If you mean do they reject lolbertardian crap in favor of common sense, then yes.

[Outcast9428]

If you mean do they reject lolbertardian crap in favor of common sense, then yes.

Well what sparked me to make this discussion is that I heard General Milley making his statement that “this war could go on for at least years if not decades.” And I was disgusted by that statement and suggested that we nationalize the defense industry because we should not be turning military conflict into a for profit enterprise. My dad reacted by saying it sounds like socialism. But I think it’s becoming obvious that the military industrial complex just wants the war in Ukraine to go on and on so they can keep selling weapons to the US military which are paid out of our taxes and then sent to Ukraine.

It’s f***ing ridiculous, it’s not even capitalism it’s more like forced consumerism. Forcing us to buy shit we don’t even want to buy.

[Cornfed]

Yes, there is no reason the government should not be running various things directly.

[gsjackson]

Your examples are from Europe, which, at least since WWII, has been much more oriented toward collectivism and redistributionism than the U.S. These countries have long been described as social democracies, and I don't think anyone would ever have called the U.S. one.

The credo for U.S. conservatives -- as marketed by William Buckley -- was spelled out in the '50s by Frank Meyer in the theory called "fusionism." In this view American conservatism was a fusion of social conservatism, free market economic principles and strong national defense. To some extent this coalition has held together even to this day (think Sean Hannity), with most defections being among those who look closely enough to notice that free market principles have degenerated into neoliberalism, the Washington Consensus, crony capitalism -- in short various grifts -- and a strong defense has become the military-industrial complex grift and the American/Judeo empire project.

[Outcast9428]

Your examples are from Europe, which, at least since WWII, has been much more oriented toward collectivism and redistributionism than the U.S. These countries have long been described as social democracies, and I don't think anyone would ever have called the U.S. one.

The credo for U.S. conservatives -- as marketed by William Buckley -- was spelled out in the '50s by Frank Meyer in the theory called "fusionism." In this view American conservatism was a fusion of social conservatism, free market economic principles and strong national defense. To some extent this coalition has held together even to this day (think Sean Hannity), with most defections being among those who look closely enough to notice that free market principles have degenerated into neoliberalism, the Washington Consensus, crony capitalism -- in short various grifts -- and a strong defense has become the military-industrial complex grift and the American/Judeo empire project.

It could be because America has never really been a far right society. Even in the 18th century, separation of church from state was cemented into our constitution. Advocating for a government like the one Francisco Franco ran would've been seen as too right-wing in America even during the 1700s. America was founded on anti-authoritarian principles so extreme social conservatism has never been a part of our nation's culture. The furthest to the right someone can go while still adhering to a recognizable American conservative philosophy is to be a "return to the 1950s" type traditionalist. Viktor Orban and the Polish government are pretty much like that but are trying harder to use economic and governmental policies to achieve that type of society whereas American conservatives seem too hung up on their limited government notions to come up with any ideas as creative as Hungary and Poland did.

That being said, I do think Hungary and Poland's policies are no longer seen as being too radical by American conservatives. Tucker Carlson, Candace Owens, Rob Dreher, and other conservative figures now are openly praising the Hungarian government for its pro family policies. Ten years ago if you had suggested that the average Republican might've accused you of being a socialist but today's right-wing is definitely more open to creative ideas for how to bring back family values.

To be honest, I don't consider Sean Hannity to be that conservative. When Gavin McInnes came onto Fox News and told a liberal woman that she was making a mistake and that she'd be happier staying at home raising kids, Sean Hannity acted like he had said something incredibly embarrassing and tried to distance himself from Gavin.