Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Chat in foreign languages or discuss language-learning.

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Lucas88
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by Lucas88 »

Jsport wrote:
August 13th, 2022, 8:27 pm
You articulate the differences between the two languages very well. And I agree with a lot with what you say about Spanish, but the thing about our differences on how we see Spanish has more to do with different upbringings. Spanish is my second language American English is my first language since I'm Paraguayan American born and raised in the US. The way I see Spanish is very different from the way you see Spanish because I was basically born into the language just like American English, so I understand more of the social nuances of Spanish culture and language than a non native speaker understands it. Just like how you would understand more of the social nuances of British English and culture than a person who wasn't born and raised in the UK.
Ability to understand the social nuances of a language or culture isn't fixed by birth or upbringing. Rather it is a skill which can be learned through experience and is also subject to other factors such as one's own level of adaptability as well as willingness to learn. Some native speakers like to claim special status and believe that no foreigner could ever grasp the nuances of their language like they can (this is especially common among more insular populations such as the Japanese) yet at the same time it is not too uncommon to find a long-term foreign resident who has as great an understanding of the language as a native speaker or sometimes on rare occasions even better. Some people who learned a foreign language in early adulthood have spent more than half of their life living in a foreign country and using their L2 as their primary means of communication and have developed a deep understanding of the language's social nuances through constant immersion. Some people are also simply more innately gifted at adapting than others. So I don't believe that your argument that the non-native speaker will always have a lower understanding of linguistic and social nuances is a particularly solid one despite it being "conventional wisdom". There are plenty of cases in the real world which defy this notion.

I might have a greater understanding of the social nuances of British English and culture in theory but not in practice. You could ask my why British people act a certain way and I would probably be able to give you a somewhat accurate theoretical explanation like an objective scholar who observes from afar, but in practical terms I simply cannot connect with most British people or integrate into their social circles. I'm just not suited to their style of communication or social nuances on an individual level. I was always a complete misfit in the UK and hated everything about the country and its people (I'd even go as far as to say that I'm "racist" against British people). All I ever wanted to do was leave. Even to this day I avoid British people like the plague (barring a handful of family members and my childhood friend @Pixel--Dude, of course).

I've spoken Spanish for about half of my life now and have had a much much easier time integrating with my Latin American friends and learning/adapting to the social nuances of their language and culture. I always have extremely fruitful conversations with my Hispanophone friends and girlfriends. They find me funny as hell and I get their humor too even though I suck at humor with British people. My Peruvian ex-girlfriend names me as her favorite conversation partner even to this day. I also think that I experience less instances of serious misunderstandings with my Hispanophone contacts than I do with weird-ass limeys who I usually can't stand anyway. Yeah, I'm not the typical gringo L2 speaker with his "Buenooos nocheeys, yo querer una burritoooo, por favor" level Spanish. :lol:

I know that many foreigners study English and some of them even admire British English but, as the saying goes, one man's meat is another man's poison. If British English is some people's meat then I'm happily a vegetarian! :D
Jsport wrote:
August 13th, 2022, 8:27 pm
but the tone in Spanish can become too passionate and dramatic when you want to make a normal comment to someone. That is why normal conversations in Spanish can often turn into extreme laughter or big arguments because of the misinterpretations in tone that often occurs in Spanish conversations, and because of the Passionate and emotional nature of the language.
I agree that Spanish is extremely passionate as I wrote in my earlier post but I'm not convinced that it's a flaw or problem. I've never heard any other Spanish speaker complain about this and all of my Hispanic friends communicate fine in their own language. Maybe the language just doesn't suit your own personality as you've already mentioned or maybe in your case English is your dominant language since you were born and raised in the US. More often than not bilingual speakers display an asymmetrical proficiency in the languages which they grew up speaking. Sometimes they grow to dislike the less privileged language.

Anecdotally I've always found Anglos to be much more uptight and quick to anger over misunderstandings than Hispanophones despite the lower quantities of passion in their speech. In my experience Anglos are generally more antisocial and get pissy over everything.


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galii
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by galii »

Btw If one wants to be seen as genius or wants to talk with intelligent people in Latinamerika here is the map. Uruguay has the smartest latinos.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/commen ... a_599x786/
Jsport
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by Jsport »

Lucas88

The positive experiences you have with Latinos has more to do with you being a Westerner and British. Latin Americans give a certain level of special treatment to people of cultures and civilisations they deem more advanced than theirs. But are more critical and condescending of Hispanic Americans like myself because, subconsciously they see us as people who descended away from their culture. It's similar to the special treatment that British people get from Americans, because of their British accents, and the prestige of being from the motherland. But a meditterenean looking Hispanic American like myself would be scoffed at by other Americans. Also American and Latin American women would give much more attention to a British guy than a strange American like myself. With that being said I'm not trying to bash myself or be self deprecating, because I know that in certain cultures, I would be valued as a person, but in your case I see it's more of you making the most out of the novelty of being British in a society where being British is highly valued. On a final note, I am not trying to discredit the good experiences you have in the Latin culture and Spanish language, and I can understand why you have a deep affection for the culture, people and language, but what you have to understand is that the grass is not always greener on the other side, and once the novelty fades away and you become more of native, the same things that bother you about British culture will also bother you about Latin culture.
Lucas88
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by Lucas88 »

Jsport wrote:
August 16th, 2022, 9:22 am
Lucas88

The positive experiences you have with Latinos has more to do with you being a Westerner and British. Latin Americans give a certain level of special treatment to people of cultures and civilisations they deem more advanced than theirs. But are more critical and condescending of Hispanic Americans like myself because, subconsciously they see us as people who descended away from their culture. It's similar to the special treatment that British people get from Americans, because of their British accents, and the prestige of being from the motherland. But a meditterenean looking Hispanic American like myself would be scoffed at by other Americans. Also American and Latin American women would give much more attention to a British guy than a strange American like myself. With that being said I'm not trying to bash myself or be self deprecating, because I know that in certain cultures, I would be valued as a person, but in your case I see it's more of you making the most out of the novelty of being British in a society where being British is highly valued. On a final note, I am not trying to discredit the good experiences you have in the Latin culture and Spanish language, and I can understand why you have a deep affection for the culture, people and language, but what you have to understand is that the grass is not always greener on the other side, and once the novelty fades away and you become more of native, the same things that bother you about British culture will also bother you about Latin culture.
I'm quite a strange case. I'm one of those rare people who just never fit in with their own culture and always felt out of place and like a foreigner. This forced me to leave my own country and adopt another culture and language as my own. I'm convinced that some people are simply born into cultures that don't suit them at all. In extreme cases an awareness of such can give rise to feelings of resentment and ethnic self-hatred.

Latinos are not the only people who I like although they are indeed my favorite people. I also prefer people of most other nationalities to the British and view the British as a very atypical, outlying, bizarre people group who have all kinds of localized oddities and problematic traits and who I feel the need to avoid as much as possible. This has consistently been my experience. British people are radically different to other Europeans (I've had substantial experience living abroad and have met many people of various nationalities) and mostly in a negative way. I cannot vibe with them no matter how hard I try, always feel uncomfortable around them, and have to avoid them for my own sanity. I only began to advance socially once I left the UK and went to Spain.

In my experience the grass really is greener on the other side and the novelty isn't an issue because I've already been interacting with Hispanic/Latin American culture and people for more than 15 years. I went from being a social outcast and incel in the UK to having a rich social life, a substantial number of friendships and girlfriends in Spain and Latin America. I attribute this to the more fertile social culture of Mediterranean and Latin societies in contrast to the anti-sociality and social alienation of British society which, in my view, is one of the most toxic in the world. I've actually started to have a real life since learning Spanish and fleeing to Spain and LatAm. I've experienced all of this myself and now more than ever I'm a passionate lover of Mediterranean/Latin culture and hater of the UK (although I'm more ambivalent towards America).

Latin Americans generally show admiration for White Europeans in general, not just the British. That admiration extends to Mediterraneans such as Italians and even Spaniards (despite their thorny history with the latter). When I'm in Latin America I always attempt to adapt to the culture and integrate as much as possible. I never seek to draw attention to my foreigner status and never reveal my nationality unless I really have to. That is because I'm ashamed of being a nerdy limey. But in LatAm most people will simply assume that a White foreigner is from the US anyway, although sometimes I've been confused with a Spaniard which is always nice because it lets me know that I'm doing something right with my Spanish :lol: . But the point is that I always try to integrate into the host culture with a "when in Rome" attitude and keep a low profile. I want to be a regular resident and "one of them" and not just an eternal gringo.

I'm aware of the situation which US-born Latinos face in Latin America. It's difficult because LatAm Latinos often view US Latinos as too agringados while at the same time many Anglo Americans view you guys as not real Americans. :( I can see how that might be a problem for you if you don't live in a majority-Latino city such as Miami for example.

Just out of curiosity, what makes it a problem for you in Latin America? Couldn't you just hide your US citizenship and present yourself to strangers simply as a Paraguayan? Or does your Spanish which you acquired in a US bilingual setting have some Americanized features that give you away as a US Latino? From what I understand Latinos are typically not very good at identifying other Latin American regional accents outside of the most well-known ones (e.g., Mexico, Colombia, Caribbean, Chile and Argentina). I doubt that a Mexican, Costa Rican or Colombian would even know what typical Paraguayan Spanish sounds like.
Jsport
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by Jsport »

Lucas88

That's a good question. My Spanish is a Paraguayan Spanish accent with a noticable American tone. That is what gives it away as US Spanish. Which is sort of the opposite on how I speak English, because I speak standard American English, I don't speak English with a regional dialect or a noticable accent like I do in Spanish. I speak English with a regular American accent. My accent when I speak Spanish is very different from people of other Latin American countries, because the Paraguayan mentality and accent is very different from most other Spanish countries, kind of like how you say how the British are different from continental Europeans. So basically, the Spanish that I speak is Paraguayan Spanish with an American rythme, that is very noticable to other Latin Americans even to Paraguayans. Now the reason why I could not fully integrate with Paraguayans, is because despite the Paraguayan characteristics I do have as a person, I also send out strong American vibes whenever I'm around them, and that can sort of weird them out because in appearance, I do have a prototypical American look and style and I'm not as mindful as other westerners, when it comes social norms and vibes of other cultures. In other words I feel that my style is a little too American to fully adapt to any other country (with the exceptions of maybe other western anglo countries).

But at this point in my life, I'm not too concerned about these things anymore. Because I don't really have plans to go abroad or to mix with other nationalities like I used to, if I can somehow connect with American women and date them, then I wouldn't care about any of these things, I would be oblivious to all this. Because despite the lack of social compatibility I generally have with Americans and American women, I still do find American women attractive. This is why maybe if you find a British woman, maybe you would have a different perspective of British culture, but if your happy dating latinas, that's cool too. But personally, I don't feel that going abroad is the answer to finding happiness, because I have realized that people are people everywhere, and women can be snobby and difficult to talk to anywhere you go. But I also understand that some people have that urge to go abroad and that's fine too.
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E Irizarry R&B Singer
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by E Irizarry R&B Singer »

Spanish and Portuguese are so passionate that you don't need game to get them where you want to have them!
Spanish and Portuguese make the woman feel insulted if you take out a preservativo/condon or a camisinha respectively
and offer to roll it on before smashing.
Lucas88
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by Lucas88 »

Romanian/Moldovan

Romanian is the least-known Romance language spoken in the isolated eastern countries of Romania and Moldova. In Moldova there is an ongoing dispute as to whether there exists a distinct Moldovan language separate from Romanian but in reality both are the same language with minor differences in pronunciation and vocabulary. From what I've read the Moldovan variety conserves more archaic elements which also used to exist in standard Romanian. Due to the relative obscurity of those countries most people don't even know that Romanian is a Romance language and assume that Romanians speak a Slavic language, but Romanian is actually closely related to Italian and I am able to understand some of it due to my knowledge of Spanish. I never really paid much attention to Romanian due to the isolation of the region from the rest of Romance Europe and the language's lack of global importance, but I watched some video clips and music videos in that language and its Moldovan variety and immediately found the Latin phonology quite charming. The fact that it's a Romance language automatically endears me to it.

Here is a video of a scene from some Moldovan series or something:



The language has an obvious Latin sound. The brunette woman who appears at the beginning of the video looks quite cute and resembles a certain Latina who I used to know.


Moldovans being asked whether they speak Romanian or Moldovan:



The Gypsy-looking woman who appears around the 0:07 mark looks hot!


Spoof video about the Moldovan dialect:




A Romanian pop funk song from the 80s:



The language suits the genre of music.


A Moldovan synth disco song, also from the 80s:



Another catchy song which sounds 80s as fark!


All in all Romanian sounds to me like a charming and underrated Romance language. I've just looked through an overview of the phonology and grammar of the language and it doesn't look too difficult to learn at all. It doesn't look any more difficult than Spanish once you learn the orthography and pronunciation.
galii
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by galii »

The discussion took some grotesque forms after one of the country’s most popular tabloids, Moskovsky Komsomolets (MK), released an opinion column titled “Time of Whores” claiming that "We've raised a generation of whores, ready to spread their legs to only the sound of foreign speech.”

67 percent of young women named the opportunity to marry a foreign citizen and leave Russia
https://www.rt.com/russia/433601-russia ... s-romance/
Understandable :lol: :lol:
galii
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by galii »

I can only remember one pop hit from Romania:

galii
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Re: Languages that you love and languages that you can't f'n' stand

Post by galii »

I did some Karaoke today. One of the very few German songs that works. Good for learning German btw. I do it to keep my German skills sharp.

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