Difficulty of Russian vs. Serbo-Croatian

[Lucas88]

In a previous post I mentioned that I would like to learn a Slavic language as the next phase of my polyglot quest. The two Slavic languages which interest me the most are Russian and Serbo-Croatian.

Each of these languages has its respective appeal for me. Serbo-Croatian is spoken in arguably the nicest part of the Slavic world along much of the Mediterranean coastline of the Balkan region. Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro each have their own unique charm and appeal to a lover of Mediterranean culture like myself. Russian on the other hand is a major world language spoken by hundreds of millions of people throughout Russia itself and Central Asia and with speakers almost everywhere since there exists a substantial Russian diaspora. I've come across Russians in every European country I've been in. I've hardly met any Serbo-Croatian speakers anywhere.

As far as difficulty is concerned, Russian seems a bit harder to me personally, although more advanced learners of the Slavic languages will be able to shed more light on this than a beginner like myself can.

Let me start off by saying that the Cyrillic script isn't a problem. I dabbled in Russian a little in the early 2010s (as well as Serbo-Croatian) and can already read the script fairly fluently. Of course the Latin script of Croatian is easier for a Western European learner accustomed to it but Cyrillic is not too difficult to get used to.

The biggest area in which Russian seems more difficult is undoubtedly pronunciation. While Serbo-Croatian's phonology is extremely pure and simple, Russian heavily features vowel reduction in which unstressed o becomes ɐ (i.e., akanye), unstressed a becomes ə, and unstressed e becomes a non-tonic i. Although vowel reduction exists in my own native language of English, I've become used to the pure and clean pronunciation of languages like Spanish and so when I'm reading my mind almost wants to resist the reduced vowels. I see a word like небо and end up pronouncing it as "nyébo" rather than "nyébə". Couldn't I just learn Russian with an okanye accent and sound like a bumpkin? Also the pairs of hard and soft sounds make the pronunciation of consonants more complicated. Certain vowels soften or "wet" the consonant that precedes them. нет for example is pronounced as "nyet". This feature doesn't exist in other Slavic languages.

When it comes to grammar I don't think that either Russian or Serbo-Croatian are particularly complex in comparison to other Slavic languages such as Polish and Czech. Both have a somewhat simplified case system with many cases merging. Both have simple verb morphology with participles replacing the more numerous Old Slavic inflected tenses.

I am of the view that deep knowledge of a Romance language such as Spanish or Italian will make any Slavic language easier to learn. It helps for learning the verb conjugations which are eerily similar between the two language families, noun gender (Slavic languages actually have three genders), reflexive pronouns which work almost the same, and verbal aspect. I think that the only true novelty is the noun cases which have to be learned from scratch but I already know how to use them from my previous dabbling.

How difficult do you think Russian and Serbo-Croatian would both be for me respectively? Would the difference be great or only marginal?

How hard is correct Russian pronunciation? Also would it be perceived as weird if I spoke with an okanye accent or didn't reduce all of the vowels?

[MrMan]

Why would you want to learn either language? Does either language have to do with your future life plans?

[Lucas88]

Update on my Russian practice:

I found a website which explains the details of Russian phonology including palatalization and vowel reduction. Once I read through the material and learned the correct pronunciation (at least in theory) I began to practice by myself using www.forvo.com's audio recordings of words provided by native speakers. First I would read the words out loud guessing the pronunciation based on the phonological rules which I had previously learned. Then I would listen to the recordings to see how accurate my pronunciation was. Often my pronunciation was accurate since Russian is fairly phonetic but whenever I had mispronounced a word I would carefully listen to the native speaker a few times and imitate it as closely as possible. I would pay special attention to difficult words.

All I can say is that it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The palatalized forms of Russian consonants are not that hard to replicate when one studies where to place the tongue. I've also gotten better at reducing unstressed vowels although I still sometimes end up pronouncing the unstressed final o of many neuter nouns as a pure o rather than as its reduced form through habit alone. I've also found that many of the consonant clusters aren't that hard to pronounce with a bit of practice. All in all I think that I'm quickly getting a good feel for the phonology of the language.

Russian pronunciation isn't as intimidating as it seems. The fundamentals can be learned in a short space of time with the right kind of instruction.

[WilliamSmith]

Why would you want to learn either language? Does either language have to do with your future life plans?

Is it just me, or didn't @Lucas88 already answer this himself in his 2nd paragraph, if you actually read the post?

Each of these languages has its respective appeal for me. Serbo-Croatian is spoken in arguably the nicest part of the Slavic world along much of the Mediterranean coastline of the Balkan region. Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Montenegro each have their own unique charm and appeal to a lover of Mediterranean culture like myself. Russian on the other hand is a major world language spoken by hundreds of millions of people throughout Russia itself and Central Asia and with speakers almost everywhere since there exists a substantial Russian diaspora. I've come across Russians in every European country I've been in. I've hardly met any Serbo-Croatian speakers anywhere.

[Lucas88]

Why would you want to learn either language? Does either language have to do with your future life plans?

Is it just me, or didn't @Lucas88 already answer this himself in his 2nd paragraph, if you actually read the post?

I also found @MrMan's reply a bit strange since I had already briefly explained why those languages appeal to me in my original post and, besides, I thought that the reason would be obvious given that we are on a forum about expatriation and foreign travel. I didn't mean to ignore MrMan or be rude in any way. It's just that I was wanting to discuss the difficulty of Russian pronunciation and maybe receive some valuable input from the forum's Slavophiles and those who have already mastered Russian rather than talk about my reason for wanting to learn Russian or Serbo-Croatian.

But to answer MrMan's question, there are various reasons for which I would like to learn Russian or Serbo-Croatian, although I'm now leaning heavily in favor of the former.

First, although my primary region of interest is Latin America and the Spanish language in which I am already fluent will probably be all the I'll ever need in the strictest of practical terms, I would also like to have a secondary region of interest for travel and maybe even short-term relocation. Since I like Mediterranean-like cultures and climates the various nations of the former Yugoslavia have always interested me. At the same time I've always found the vast landmass of Russia and the exotic lands of Central Asia to be fascinating places. Knowledge of Russian is indispensable for travel throughout the region beyond the most basic touristic areas. I like to prepare in advance before I go to one of my regions of interest. It's usually my goal to have at least an intermediate level of language ability even before I step foot in the country.

Second, I recognize that learning the languages of patriotic peoples like Russians often creates a bond of trust and provides opportunities for friendships with native speakers. The Russians who I've met in Spain were really cool people and were extremely enthusiastic about conversing with me when I was able to display knowledge of their great country and glorious culture. Since I'm a misfit in my own country I've been forced to look for friendships and relationships among people of other nationalities. My language studies have facilitated that need. I would like to reiterate that this strategy only works with proud and patriotic peoples. It doesn't work with ashamed self-hating peoples who look down on their on culture and language and will probably make them hate you too for speaking their language. But such weak, effeminate, oikophobic nations deserve no respect anyway.

Third, learning foreign languages to a high level and becoming a polyglot constitutes an intellectual achievement and makes a man appear more attractive to women of an intellectual inclination. This is a rarely talked-about practical aspect of language learning. While Anglos tend to have an extremely narrow utilitarian view of life and only value simple practical skills and the pursuit of financial wealth, many people in Continental Europe and other parts of the world also value culture, intellectual endeavors and the arts. Being intellectual in places like Spain and France is considered attractive by a substantial subset of the female population - typically females who are philosophical or artsy themselves. Having a sound knowledge of multiple languages -- especially those with a widely recognized chic factor like Russian -- may be seen as a hallmark of intellect.

Fourth, language learning has always been a hobby for me which keeps me sane in a dark and oftentimes miserable world, along with my practice of martial arts, my writing projects, my study of philosophy, and my research into various other deeper subjects, of course. Some people unwind by watching professional sports or reality TV or drinking at some bar but none of those things have ever appealed to me. I need to be always exploring intellectual avenues and deepening my knowledge in order to encounter satisfaction. Language learning is one of the activities which serve this purpose for me.

So these are some of the reasons for which I would like to learn Russian or any other language for that matter.

[MrMan]

Why would you want to learn either language? Does either language have to do with your future life plans?

Is it just me, or didn't @Lucas88 already answer this himself in his 2nd paragraph, if you actually read the post?

I also found @MrMan's reply a bit strange since I had already briefly explained why those languages appeal to me in my original post and, besides, I thought that the reason would be obvious given that we are on a forum about expatriation and foreign travel. I didn't mean to ignore MrMan or be rude in any way.

Sorry if I missed the previous post. Since I don't know much about differences between Slavic languages, if it were me, I'd make a more 'utilitarian' decision. These might be some of the factors I would consider:

-- Which region do I plan to spend more time in?
-- If both, then is there a big advantage to learning the language of a particular region? For example, if you can get along well in English in one place, but need the local language to get by or to be accepted in another...
-- Could knowing one of the languages help you in some other area of your life... e.g. employment, social activities? For example, there might be more Russian community get-togethers where you could go eat borscht.
-- Does one of the languages align better for whatever you want to do with it?

I'm starting to learn ancient Greek, but I want to eventually study New Testament Greek. I studied a number of languages in college and I learned Indonesian mainly from talking with people, though I did start with the Lonely Planet phrase book to get the basics. I need to read the Indonesian Bible so I can learn to use proper verb endings for public speaking, etc., so that I do not sound so informal like a guy on the street like I do now.

If I'd continued my academic studies in college and gone into grad school in linguistics like I was thinking of at the time, I might have favored Indo-European languages for similarity to what I was studying and to gain expertise in that field, but I didn't go that route.