Happier Abroad Forum Community

I know Winston you market that web-site and may make some affiliate type money but service wise that dating site is not the best in my opinion. I don't know about the romance tours but I think you had a link about some of dating web-site scams. From my understanding foreign affair does not really screen the girls that go to these romance tours. Again I am not 100% sure but from what I read.

With foreign affair you have to purchase points to write to a girl and also receive a letter from the girl . The reason is let say the girl is in China or Russia. Because of language issues you use their services. Now I tried to get the girls e-mail and write directly. Some of the girls were not comfortable because their English is not good. Fair enough but this made me realize that realistic with out properly communication how can I get close to these girls.

In a relationship communication is important. I think this is part of the reason why not too many American men look overseas because of the language problem. But anyway...purchasing points to write and to receive is costly. They use translator service for the girls in that country. The problem is I experimented writing to these girls and I think the translation company just writes back to me. I ask questions to these girls but I don't get a direct answer. It's like the translation company is profiting on maybe make believe profiles. It made me mad. I mean it's like scam. and foreign affair is one of the bigger dating sites.

Let say it's not a scam. The marketing that foreign affair is a little misleading. Before I joined they didn't really go to much into details about the cost of purchasing points to write to a girl. They just cover just the general membership fee. I actually watch one of their online programs about joining.

I did e-mail them my complaint but heard nothing. I canceled my membership . I understand that you might need a translation service to write to a girl but the cost is too high and I'm still not 100% sure if I was actually writing to the girl. I ask the girls if I can get another photo and get some generic reply.

Plus ..this made me realize that learning the language is sooooo crucial. If I want a Chinese girl...you guess I better learn mandarin. A Russian ...learn Russian.


I mean it's common sense but in practice much harder to achieve.

Ok let me clear up some things based on what I know and what I've heard from my sources.

First, AFA is just the US office in Phoenix. The offices that handle the ladies profiles and translation services consist of 80 subcontractor agencies in different countries. Some of them may be involved in unethical practices, such as faking letters. But AFA has no control over that and can't police it. On a TV interview about that, AFA's President said that it's better to just go there and meet the women rather than depend on letter writing.

That being said, I've talked to the President of AFA, John Adams, over the phone, and so did Steve Neese, before our show. We both felt that he seemed very sincere, good natured, courteous, considerate, and overall a good person. In fact, he may be too nice, which is why sometimes unethical practices in their affiliate or sub agencies get past him. But overall, AFA is legit. You gotta understand though, that no big company is 100 percent clean. They always have some unethical practices. The bigger the company, the harder it is to police everyone and everything in it.

AFA has been very professional when I dealt with them. Back in 2002, I arranged two introductions in their St. Petersburg office. When both ladies failed to show and stood me up, AFA refunded my money. No problem. And when I email them with a problem, they usually get back to me within one day. But you have to understand that they are a business and are professional salespeople. In the business world, professional salespeople are always going to highlight the pros of their products/services in the best light possible, not the cons. It doesn't make them bad or dishonest. That's just how salespeople in the business world are. No one who runs a business is any different.

But AFA does have a lot of success stories though. You can see their video testimonials here: http://women.happierabroad.com/tour/testimonials.shtml

Mark Davis met his soulmate and wife Anna through an AFA tour. She treats him like gold and has never asked him for anything. See their wedding/family album here: https://plus.google.com/photos/10220540 ... banner=pwa

Also, Tony Bochene met his ex-wife on AFA too, whom he says he was happily married to for years.

So it is possible. Think of AFA as a tool or medium, like the internet, for meeting lots of women. A tool or medium can be used for good or bad, depending on who is using it. It is not good or bad. It just depends on how it is used and who is using it. If you learn how to use the tool to your advantage, you can get great results through it. Same as the internet or any other vast medium.

Second, there is no logical way of screening out the women and men. I mean think about it. If you were them, and you tried to screen out people, how would you do it? By asking them, "Are you a good person with sincere intentions?" EVERYONE is going to claim to be good and sincere. How are you going to know who to believe? You see what I mean? There is no reliable way you can screen out people. All they can do is kick out the women at the socials who have proven to be gold diggers or scammers in past socials, and not let them return.

However, they may not always do that, under the excuse of, "Well she may have just been that way cause she wasn't attracted to the guy and he was stupid enough to be generous to her even though she had no interest in him. If she really liked him, she would have treated him better." Etc. That was the excuse of the St. Petersburg office when I told them about how rude and inconsiderate beyond words, one of their women were. Her name was Olga Krasnova, if you want to Google her.

(She was so self-absorbed, that when we were on our way to a party at the American Embassy in St. Petersburg, even though we were 40 minutes early and it was only a few blocks away, she refused to wait 10 minutes to let me finish eating my burrito and fries. I've never met anyone that self-absorbed and inconsiderate before. It was rude beyond words, and totally unnecessary too, since we had 40 minutes to kill before the party started, and plus, people show up late at those things anyway. But you gotta chalk up these things as a learning experience.)

Third, you do NOT have to use the letter translation services. I sure wouldn't. Many of the ladies profiles have personal email addresses that you can order. After that, you can use Google Translate to translate letters with them. I do that with several and it works out just fine. The key to remember is that when you write letters, don't use words with double meanings. For example, instead of saying, "I am like a tiger", say "I am similar to a tiger". That way, there will be less translation errors. Most of the time, you can figure out the meaning of computer translated letters, just from the context of the rest of the words. If not, you can ask for clarification. When I use Google Translate to translate their letters, I usually understand 90 percent of it, if not 100 percent.

Moreover, many of the foreign women speak fluent English. For example, I ordered this Chinese woman's email from AFA:



After that, we talked by email, QQ and on the phone. I've had 1 - 2 hour deep intelligent conversations with her on the phone, in ENGLISH. So it is possible to meet such types. Chinese women are some of the most sincere down to earth straightforward women I've ever met.

I've also met a few Chinese women on ChineseKisses.com and DateinAsia.com who speak very good English. You can see some of their letters in English that I posted here: viewtopic.php?p=70680#70680

From there, I take it to QQ or email or phone. The best way to make sure they are real is to call them, gauge their vibes, and especially ask to see them on webcam. However, some girls are shy to let you see them on webcam without makeup, or they may not like their appearance on webcam and not want to give you a bad impression. In that case, just have regular correspondence with her on the phone. You can't know what she's really like until you meet them face to face. However, phone conversations will give a lot of clues.

Most scammers make their intentions known after a few letters. They do not waste their time. But if they are a long term strategy scammer or visa whore, well, you just have to let time reveal that. After spending time with them in person, you can get an idea of their intentions. Overall, the odds are on your side. You just have to use good judgment and common sense.

This is not a risk free venture. It comes with risks, bad apples, etc. just like everything else in life. You just have to learn to "play the game" and "navigate the waters" well and develop street smarts to separate the wheat from the chaff. AFA can't police everyone or guarantee that every woman you meet through them will be sincere. No one can do that. But the good news is that with some common sense rules, you can avoid most of the bad apples early on.

If I were you, I'd just stick with the English speaking girls with private email addresses. There are many of them. But if you really like someone and she can't speak English, then just use Google Translate. Language is important but it's not insurmountable. When I first went to Russia, I got by using an electronic dictionary I got for $30 there. It was able to translate most of my words ok. If the girl is smart and curious, she will ask you questions and make an effort to communicate with you.

But look, animals don't need language to communicate or mate and procreate. They communicate through body language and possibly telepathy (according to some researchers). So if they don't need language to mate and procreate, then why should you? LOL

I'm happy just holding hands with a girl and walking through the park, without communicating. All you have to do is point to where you want to go. You don't need to understand each other. It's a fun challenge. Not as difficult as you think.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Remember, where there's a will, there's a way.

I hope that helps put things in perspective?

Rock also personally testified that the girls he met on AFA were genuine as well. He wrote:

viewtopic.php?p=95799#95799

Rock wrote:

xiongmao wrote:What? At least my girl is real. All these AFA girl photos are photoshops.

And Russian girls, meh. I'm not into them at all. My brother's in Indonesia right now, and he's found some very gorgeous women there! More guys should check out Indonesian girls, they're incredibly exotic.

I can't vouch for Winston's girls. But I've met over 15 AFA girls in Colombia (not through tour but via website) and I can tell you those were all real and genuine. Only in 2-3 was I disappointed by girl being less attractive than photos (hey, some people are very photogenic relative to the way they look in person) while 2 were knockouts in my book. I seriously dated one of those (from Cartagena) for some months but the extreme distance and my busy work schedule took its toll and I stopped contacting her. Last I heard, she ended-up marrying a Texan.

Yeah, AFA is legit, but I did find their customer service a little slow, especially when I was asking about a $2000+ romance tour.

What men forget is that ladies are ladies and sometimes they change their mind, find another fella and quit AFA, or just disappear. Dating *is* a risk.

I've not used AFA, but I did meet genuine girls from Chnlove, and I personally know men who met their wives on that site.

AFA airbrush their photos, but in many cases I've met girls who are better looking in real life than in their airbrushed photos.

Other sites are cheaper, or even free, but scammers are a huge problem these days. I'd like to think that guys can tell if someone is scamming them. On the other hand many Western guys on my dating site are less intelligent than the average Filipina on there. No wonder so many people mail off their life savings to West Africa.

As far as the translator emails go, they're expensive but I used them a lot when I first started dating Chinese girls. After a while I'd learnt enough about their culture to go it alone. QQ now has a brilliant automatic translator in it - I chatted to a single mom from Chengdu who spoke no English and we had a very good conversation.

Btw, if you don't like AFA's pay per letter system, they have a more modern system you can use on their ForeignWomen.com and ForeignLadies.com sites. There, you only pay a flat monthly fee and then you can write unlimited letters to the foreign women, like modern dating sites let you do.

Here are the links to them so you can check them out.

http://www.foreignwomen.com/go/happierabroad

http://www.foreignladies.com/go/happierabroad

Or you can write to the ladies on AFA directly who have personal email addresses. It says on each profile whether the lady has a private email or not.

http://www.foreignladies.com/how_works.html says $7.50 per email & they do not allow to exchange contact information.

Anyone actually tried foreignwomen.com to explain how that one works?

Christianfilipinacom wrote:http://www.foreignladies.com/how_works.html says $7.50 per email & they do not allow to exchange contact information.

Anyone actually tried foreignwomen.com to explain how that one works?

I guess you are right. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Yes, ForeignLadies.com does use a pay per letter system. However, ForeignWomen.com allows unlimited correspondence for $29 a month. So you can try that instead, if you don't like the pay per letter system. Or like I said, just write to the women on AFA who have private email addresses that you can write to directly. Then use Google Translate for the correspondence. I do that with a lady in China who speaks no English, and we communicate just fine.

Anyone wondering what is "wrong" with AFA should watch these videos, it appears to be the tip of the iceberg from what I have heard from people who have told me directly of their experience.

http://www.youtube.com/user/foreignaffa ... ture=watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0KelpNYlmE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjH-5hy2CY4

Christianfilipinacom wrote:Anyone wondering what is "wrong" with AFA should watch these videos

Peter, those three YouTube videos have been removed. I presume they were Tony Bochene?

Winston wrote:unlimited correspondence for $29 a month. So you can try that instead, if you don't like the pay per letter system. Or just write to ... who have private email addresses that you can write to directly.

Whether it's a pay per letter or unlimited correspondence, I don't think they allow any exchange of contact information. So how are you ever going to meet them?
Winston, you have AFA listed here as "the largest and most reputable international romance tour operator", and your site has numerous ads for them. I can see why you would say they are the largest, but what evidence do you have to say that they are the most reputable? Not trying to challenge you or anything, just wondering if you know any specifics about them other than just talking to them on the phone. As big as AFA seems to be, you would think there would be quite a few actual users here talking about them, but there seems very little first hand info. Has anyone here actually used them in any way? Anyone actually been on their tours? Personally I have no interest in their tours, but they do have a massive database of profiles listed and I'm giving some thought to using them for that. It does seem (on their site) that you can contact the girls individually, but it costs $10 each to contact them and most (from the Philippines) don't have email addresses. Considering the normal response rate from these type of sites, and then an even smaller percentage of those ever showing up to actually meet you when you go there, that could get very pricey. As usual, you always wonder how many of the girls actually exist or would respond if contacted. For myself, I won't be actually going overseas until later this year, I don't think my trip is soon enough to contact anyone just yet. But before I send any money at all their way, would be interested in hearing feedback. Tony Bochene talks about John Adams as if he were Satan himself, and I do agree with what he says about the tours. But Tony comes off to me as a guy with some type of grudge and questionable credibility himself, so I don't know what to think about him.
Anyone have first hand dealings with AFA?

I noticed that nobody's mentioned Elena's Models in this thread. Does that mean that we can all agree that it sucks?

Why must one pay for communication? - If it starts that expensive what will follow? - The thing is that probably 90% are money hungy .....women.

Well I'm not a believer of those sites. They don't let you exchange personal information like giving your skype id to the women. My only advice and it's always been the same advice is to use the power of search engines. Plus look into the country's social sites and check for the country's own single sites you may have to use google translate for some of the sites but some also have the option to change the language to english. When I met my wife, I met her on a local singles site from Lithuania.

I have asked this question before, but does anyone know why A Foreign Affair charges so much for a romance tour? I never see lower cost romance tours to Asia, Russia or Latin America. I remember 10 years ago, one guy had low cost romance tours to San Pedro Sula, Honduras for $300. My two friends said the tours were not fancy but the women were wonderful.

Travel Dude wrote:I have asked this question before, but does anyone know why A Foreign Affair charges so much for a romance tour? I never see lower cost romance tours to Asia, Russia or Latin America. I remember 10 years ago, one guy had low cost romance tours to San Pedro Sula, Honduras for $300. My two friends said the tours were not fancy but the women were wonderful.

Because they can! It's economics 101, charge whatever market will bear in a way which maximizes profits (the highest price which fills all the available slots).

There are enough schmucks with sufficient money in USA and some other western countries that they can pull it off. Why would they charge any less if they don't have to???

Travel Dude wrote:I have asked this question before, but does anyone know why A Foreign Affair charges so much for a romance tour? I never see lower cost romance tours to Asia, Russia or Latin America. I remember 10 years ago, one guy had low cost romance tours to San Pedro Sula, Honduras for $300. My two friends said the tours were not fancy but the women were wonderful.

That's an interesting question. Yes there should be a romance tour for guys on a budget or who are not well off. One that books cheap flights and puts the guys in cheap hotels and introduces them to wonderful down to earth women from poorer families. lol. Romance tours should not just be for the rich. That would be a good business idea. Maybe you can start such a company? I wonder why no one else has. Mark Davis' tours are even more expensive.