Weird financial mysteries in the Philippines I can't figure out!

[Winston]

Last night i talked with the chef in my hotel for a long time about deep subjects and conspiracies. He told me that in America, you cant live and eat without money. But in Philippines you can. Many filipinos have no money at all yet they are able to eat and live, they still have food and shelter. How is this possible? Anyone know?

[Balmung]

Last night i talked with the chef in my hotel for a long time about deep subjects and conspiracies. He told me that in America, you cant live and eat without money. But in Philippines you can. Many filipinos have no money at all yet they are able to eat and live, they still have food and shelter. How is this possible? Anyone know?

Welcome to the world of subsistence living! I suspect several things are going on here:

Food: It literally grows on trees! Last month visiting my girlfriend in the Visayas, she remarked how now that she lived in the city, it felt odd to have to *pay* for mangoes. She said in the semi rural area she grew up in, there were so many mango trees that didn't really even belong to anyone, you could just take the fruit right off the tree. Other fruits widely available are lanzones, rambutan, and dalandan, as well as more familiar ones like pineapple, banana and avocado. Also, if you have even a small patch of land- even just a strip of a few meters between shacks- you can grow something, vegetables or corn or something. Chickens can be raised feeding them scraps and bugs, and can lay eggs. If you have enough or the right land to grow rice, congratulations, you're now officially a subsistence farmer! Google-fu tells me rice yield is about 1200 kg per acre. Even a half acre paddy will give 600 kg, which is 1.64 kg per day, which would certainly feed a whole family (especially if they are getting eggs/chicken, fruit trees, ect.)

Shelter: One major advantage the Philippines has is climate. I'm in the US again now, and I'm living in an area so cold that if you didn't have heat, you would die. But there, as long as you can keep the rain out, no climate control is needed. Lots of people live in shacks or nipa huts made out of bamboo or scrap wood. Ever wonder why when a typhoon roars through, so many are left homeless? Because those houses just blow away in the wind. Still, you can build a shack out of materials that are almost free, all it takes is a bit of cleverness and work. (I'm always nonplussed about people who say peasants aren't clever. Have you seen some of those shacks?! They do things with bamboo and vines that would amaze engineers.)

Money: So, you've got a diet of fruit, rice, and sometimes a bit of pork/egg/chicken, and a nipa hut. These are people without bank accounts, who are certainly not spending cash on a daily basis. But are they truly totally without money? I'm not so sure. As has been said before here, there is a great flow of money from family members overseas or in big cities. Also, if you're farming land that's been in your family for generations, is it really fair to say you live without money? And there are people who I think are doing some odd jobs, not regular work, but may earn a few pesos here and there. There are also people bartering their extra food or items for those of other people. GDP is low, but it doesn't tell the whole story.

[Winston]

Matt here are some reality breakdowns I noticed in the Philippines that I sent to my friends. I mention your name a few times in it.

I don't understand a few things.

1. When u give money to a bar girl or freelancer she gives it all to her kids or parents right away, keeping none for herself. So she always has zero. First of all why doesn't she keep any for her own expenses? And second what's the point of giving them money if they're back to zero the next day? It seems like a zero sum game. Why is everything in extremes here without any reasonable healthy balance?

2. What happens if they don't send money home to their kids or parents? They won't starve to death. I've never seen Filipinos starve to death like the Ethiopia photos in the US media show. Somehow they always manage to eat even if broke. So what benefit is the money sent to them? Are they buying consumer goods with it? Are they things they need or just luxuries?

3. If these girls really love their kids then isn't it better they spend time with them in person and be there for them? Rather than just send money to them? I mean in person love from a mother trumps anything she sends by western union right? Because love is priceless but money is not. Money is temporary. So why are the girls obsessed with money as if it's the only thing that matters in life? Very strange.

In fact why does all of Asia and most of America act like making money is all that matters and is their sole obsession 24/7? That's crazy and extreme and one dimensional. It's also unnatural and unhealthy and weird, yet everyone acts like it's normal to live for money all the time everyday. Yet no one in Asia questions it except me. Why is that? How can I be the only one who sees the obvious?

It's a reality breakdown like Matt McKinley says. In a real world everything would not be so uniformly consistent with everyone. There should be resistance and push back. Yet no one in Asia questions this.

In reality love and happiness and freedom matter too, not just making money. Money is important but not everything. Why am I the only one who realizes this and why do I feel like a freak for bringing this up in Asia and the Philippines? Like Matt says, in a real world it wouldn't be this ridiculous with total compliance from everyone around you. Hence it gives reality away as some fake construct where most people may not even be real souls with awareness. Everyone seems to be a program following a script or playing a role that's assigned to them.

4. How come filipinas never use laundry services? They always want to wash their clothes by hand which is tedious and time consuming, when the laundry service is only 120p at most places. Yet they are religious about washing by hand. When u ask them about this they have no logical explanation. They just say something about the machine damaging their clothes. However their clothes are cheap and made of cheap materials. So why do they care if it's damaged. It's not like they are wearing high quality expensive clothes. Yet no Filipina I know uses laundry services. Then who is using them then since there is a laundry service on every street corner? Again another reality breakdown. Everything seems to be extreme. Not one person I know uses laundry services except me. How can everything be that uniform or extreme?

5. How come every Filipino I know or meet says they are broke and have no extra cash. Yet if that's so all the malls and stores and supermarkets would be out of business. They can't just depend on foreigners especially since most who are shopping are Filipinos. How does any business stay running then? Again another reality breakdown. You also see many Filipinos standing in line at stores and malls and paying in cash. So how do they all claim to be broke? Again another reality breakdown.

Something seems to be f***ing with my mind. It's like I'm a User in the movie Tron while everyone else is a creation of the matrix or dream, so I'm the only real soul while everyone else is just part of a dream or simulation or actor like in the Truman Show and just f***ing with my mind.

6. Half the Philippines I heard is unemployed with no income. So how do they pay for food, transportation, utility bills, water, meals, hospital bills, etc? Again it doesn't add up and never has and seems to be a reality breakdown. I've been asking this question since 2007 and no one can fully explain it and even the explanations I get don't explain everything or make the math add up. Again it seems like a reality breakdown like Matt would say.

[kangarunner]

Here's what I want you to do. Every day have about $500 in cash in your pocket in single bills. Walk around the streets in the Philippines and hand out the cash to as many kids and families as possible in 1 hour.

After that I want you to make PayPal donations to the following Philippines charities:

Philippines World Vision,
Philippine Red Cross,
UNICEF Philippines,
Action Against Hunger,
Dream Big Pilipinas

4. How come filipinas never use laundry services? ....Yet no Filipina I know uses laundry services.

Philippines population is 114 million. How many Filipinos have you met?

5. How come every Filipino I know or meet says they are broke and have no extra cash. Yet if that's so all the malls and stores and supermarkets would be out of business. They can't just depend on foreigners especially since most who are shopping are Filipinos. How does any business stay running then? Again another reality breakdown. You also see many Filipinos standing in line at stores and malls and paying in cash. So how do they all claim to be broke? Again another reality breakdown.

Philippines population is 114 million. How many Filipinos have you met?

6. Half the Philippines I heard is unemployed with no income.

You heard? What else did you hear? Do you believe everything you hear?

[publicduende]

Yes, many Filipinos are dirt poor and base their subsistence on what nature has to offer, like mangoes and saging (native bananas) found in the little remaining public or abandoned land, occasional labour, more often handouts and "loans" from the more fortunate neighbours.

You will agree that, while these people will nevere starve, they also have no means to improve their meager existence. They might be able to send some of their kids to public school but won't have money to buy books and supplies. Without a big jump in cultural level, they are ensuring their family will continue in the poverty trajectory. Sometimes a son or daughter is brave enough to venture in the city and start their own life, only to realise that, once they have finally built a half-comfortable existence, they will have to share the majority of their earnings with their parents and siblings, often even the deadbeat brothers and sisters in law.

During my time here, I have seen so many of these situation, it's not even a point of debate for me.

What happens is that the Philippines is also a developing nation of 114 million people where a majority lives in urbanised areas, have access to public and private sector jobs, often succeeds in building self-sustaining businesses, and have some sort of income. Millions and millions of Filipinos more every year transition from low-income to lower-middle-income, or from lower-middle-income to higher-middle-income. A family of two, living in the city, where both parents work in the vast service industry, has a combined income of at least P50,000 a month. Such income allows a family to grow, send kids to public school and on to a public or cheap college. The potential for socio-economic mobility is not huge, but present.

What also happens is that Filipinos, unless extremely well-educated, are not very good at financial planning. Those with significant saving power are the well educated ones, often with inherited status and wealth, who will learn how to invest in stocks, funds, or businesses. The vast majority don't have much saving power, they can only afford to live day by day, and so they choose to live.

So you see every other Fridays, when it's payday, the massive traffic in Metro Manila, Cebu, Davao, practically every city, as every Pinoy old and young wants to go out for drinks and spend a significant portion of their wages in a single night. It's not uncommon at all that, after that night of excesses, they realise they can't support themselves until the next payday and they start asking for little "loans" from family and coworkers.

All in all, what sustains the Filipino economy is the continuous improvement in income levels and their consumerist mentality of "spend now what you have now". That's why we see the countless malls thrive, all the Jollibees and McDo's always full at every hours of the day and evening. Let's add that there is army of millions of BPO (call center) workers who work night shifts and you have consumerism that's 24/7.

[Yohan]

Here's what I want you to do. Every day have about $500 in cash in your pocket in single bills. Walk around the streets in the Philippines and hand out the cash to as many kids and families as possible in 1 hour.
After that I want you to make PayPal donations to the following Philippines charities:
Philippines World Vision,
Philippine Red Cross,
UNICEF Philippines,
Action Against Hunger,
Dream Big Pilipinas

NO WAY, I will never give anything to charities, most money is never arriving where it should, and around 80 percent of all donations is (mis)used for self administration, like rent in expensive offices, CEO salary, travel around to 'study' about poverty while living in upper class hotels etc. etc.

Since many years I offer support to my Filipina fosterdaughter and also to some other people next to her - my help is only directly to the person who needs it, and never cash money.

My help during my many visits in Cebu was and still is about paying for some basic food, school-fees, some clothes, medicine, some items useful for housing - but surely never cash....

[Yohan]

4. How come filipinas never use laundry services? They always want to wash their clothes by hand which is tedious and time consuming, when the laundry service is only 120p at most places. Yet they are religious about washing by hand. When u ask them about this they have no logical explanation. They just say something about the machine damaging their clothes. However their clothes are cheap and made of cheap materials. So why do they care if it's damaged. It's not like they are wearing high quality expensive clothes. Yet no Filipina I know uses laundry services. Then who is using them then since there is a laundry service on every street corner? Again another reality breakdown. Everything seems to be extreme. Not one person I know uses laundry services except me. How can everything be that uniform or extreme?

I noticed this too every time I visit Cebu. Laundry services for locals are rather poor compared to Japan (coin laundry everywhere, self-service) or in Thailand (everywhere is a laundry and quality of service is very cheap and good) - I use laundry services of course in Cebu, but everytime I pick up my laundry something is not in order, either not ready, or last time I gave 13 pieces and got 11 pieces back etc...

5. How come every Filipino I know or meet says they are broke and have no extra cash. Yet if that's so all the malls and stores and supermarkets would be out of business. They can't just depend on foreigners especially since most who are shopping are Filipinos. How does any business stay running then?

Many Filipinos, if they have just a little money left, are unwilling to save it, they just go to the malls, buying ice cream or small items they do not really need and are quickly out of money again. Shopping malls are not cheap, but also offer air-condition, fast-food restaurants, some places for children to play...

6. Half the Philippines I heard is unemployed with no income. So how do they pay for food, transportation, utility bills, water, meals, hospital bills, etc?

This is not correct, it's not true that the half of ALL Filipinos are unemployed.

However Philippines has a serious problem about jobless youth, also a problem with criminals, homeless people and streetchildren.
Many of these low-income people have no access to good food, clean drinking water and medical care.

Even if you have a higher education and some work experience already, it is difficult to find employment with a reasonable salary, and often the company has not enough profit and is reducing the staff, or pays only some commission if the employee sells something like a new car etc.
It takes months to find a new job...

How to they all survive? They stay in a small group, friends or often with poor relatives, one or two have a job and share their income with the others three or four who have no job....After they are out of job another one of the group finds a job for a while, and shares what he or she is earning...

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

What an interesting life for Filipinos.
Doesn't Filipinos abroad who works in South Korea, USA, and other countries send money to their families back home?

Not only for Filipinos but also same for Hispanics too. They also send money back home to their families. Hispanics unlike Filipinos likes to build up their "cattle farm" back home with the money earned in America. The Hispanics in America are also uneducated or partially educated but they are bit more financially aware than Filipino counterparts.. I find that Hispanics also tend to share rooms to save money on rent which is the biggest expense in the USA.

[Jonny Law]

Last night i talked with the chef in my hotel for a long time about deep subjects and conspiracies. He told me that in America, you cant live and eat without money. But in Philippines you can. Many filipinos have no money at all yet they are able to eat and live, they still have food and shelter. How is this possible? Anyone know?

Let's Look At The Facts Wu!
Robinson's one of the largest mall chains in the Philippines:
Robinsons Land hits record profit on mall traffic, solid sales

Read more: https://business.inquirer.net/390434/ro ... z86L8dzl4m

YES!
If you are a Business minded. You will be more profitable in the "POOR " Philippines than ever could imagine in the USofGay. Because ALL of their Malls are shutting down or about to.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Last night i talked with the chef in my hotel for a long time about deep subjects and conspiracies. He told me that in America, you cant live and eat without money. But in Philippines you can. Many filipinos have no money at all yet they are able to eat and live, they still have food and shelter. How is this possible? Anyone know?

Let's Look At The Facts Wu!
Robinson's one of the largest mall chains in the Philippines:
Robinsons Land hits record profit on mall traffic, solid sales

Read more: https://business.inquirer.net/390434/ro ... z86L8dzl4m

YES!
If you are a Business minded. You will be more profitable in the "POOR " Philippines than ever could imagine in the USofGay. Because ALL of their Malls are shutting down or about to.

Hmmmm.. I wonder why Filipinos are flocking to Malls while Americ*nts are avoiding malls and instead buying everything online.

[Jackfruits]

PH lives off sucker mr atms

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

Yes, many Filipinos are dirt poor and base their subsistence on what nature has to offer, like mangoes and saging (native bananas) found in the little remaining public or abandoned land, occasional labour, more often handouts and "loans" from the more fortunate neighbours.

You will agree that, while these people will nevere starve, they also have no means to improve their meager existence. They might be able to send some of their kids to public school but won't have money to buy books and supplies. Without a big jump in cultural level, they are ensuring their family will continue in the poverty trajectory. Sometimes a son or daughter is brave enough to venture in the city and start their own life, only to realise that, once they have finally built a half-comfortable existence, they will have to share the majority of their earnings with their parents and siblings, often even the deadbeat brothers and sisters in law.

During my time here, I have seen so many of these situation, it's not even a point of debate for me.

What happens is that the Philippines is also a developing nation of 114 million people where a majority lives in urbanised areas, have access to public and private sector jobs, often succeeds in building self-sustaining businesses, and have some sort of income. Millions and millions of Filipinos more every year transition from low-income to lower-middle-income, or from lower-middle-income to higher-middle-income. A family of two, living in the city, where both parents work in the vast service industry, has a combined income of at least P50,000 a month. Such income allows a family to grow, send kids to public school and on to a public or cheap college. The potential for socio-economic mobility is not huge, but present.

What also happens is that Filipinos, unless extremely well-educated, are not very good at financial planning. Those with significant saving power are the well educated ones, often with inherited status and wealth, who will learn how to invest in stocks, funds, or businesses. The vast majority don't have much saving power, they can only afford to live day by day, and so they choose to live.

So you see every other Fridays, when it's payday, the massive traffic in Metro Manila, Cebu, Davao, practically every city, as every Pinoy old and young wants to go out for drinks and spend a significant portion of their wages in a single night. It's not uncommon at all that, after that night of excesses, they realise they can't support themselves until the next payday and they start asking for little "loans" from family and coworkers.

All in all, what sustains the Filipino economy is the continuous improvement in income levels and their consumerist mentality of "spend now what you have now". That's why we see the countless malls thrive, all the Jollibees and McDo's always full at every hours of the day and evening. Let's add that there is army of millions of BPO (call center) workers who work night shifts and you have consumerism that's 24/7.

What an interesting life for Filipinos. Too bad, If they collectively act like Scrooge Mcduck or Cheapstakes with their money and do joint investments like the Chinese than they would've been much successful. Filipino society would be better off, but their spending habits are trapping them into perpetual poverty and learned helplessness. All the charities in the World can't save them unless Filipinos learn how to manage their money better.
Charities should focus on teaching Filipinos Financial education instead of just giving them free stuff. That's how you really help them.
I am just saying.. I don't know the deep cultural habits of Filipinos. Bit of outsider's perspective.

[josephty2]

Last night i talked with the chef in my hotel for a long time about deep subjects and conspiracies. He told me that in America, you cant live and eat without money. But in Philippines you can. Many filipinos have no money at all yet they are able to eat and live, they still have food and shelter. How is this possible? Anyone know?

"Not literally" without money, clearly the cost of living is much different.

Matt here are some reality breakdowns I noticed in the Philippines that I sent to my friends. I mention your name a few times in it.

I don't understand a few things.

1. When u give money to a bar girl or freelancer she gives it all to her kids or parents right away, keeping none for herself. So she always has zero. First of all why doesn't she keep any for her own expenses? And second what's the point of giving them money if they're back to zero the next day? It seems like a zero sum game. Why is everything in extremes here without any reasonable healthy balance?

It's not a zero sum game. You weren't bullied in the Philippines, remember California, or treated to a double standard in dating like how American women.

2. What happens if they don't send money home to their kids or parents? They won't starve to death. I've never seen Filipinos starve to death like the Ethiopia photos in the US media show. Somehow they always manage to eat even if broke. So what benefit is the money sent to them? Are they buying consumer goods with it? Are they things they need or just luxuries?

American immigrants think their life is better than those you describe who didn't immigrate. It's extraggerated to us forum members, I mean, is it really hellish in those countries?

3. If these girls really love their kids then isn't it better they spend time with them in person and be there for them? Rather than just send money to them? I mean in person love from a mother trumps anything she sends by western union right? Because love is priceless but money is not. Money is temporary. So why are the girls obsessed with money as if it's the only thing that matters in life? Very strange.

I agree.