The Realities of China

[yick]

I thought I would put down a few thoughts about living and dating in China, of course, I welcome questions and other viewpoints from expats in China. But here are some of my observations which I found to be true.

As a white man - you will be judged a lot more harshly on how you look and on other physical attributes than you would if you are of an East Asian ethnicity, you will be judged by the film stars on the big screen.

Height matters - a lot

Being black isn't the handicap you might think it is, again - if you look like Denzel, Will Smith or someone recognisable then the better it is for you - same rules apply as they do with white guys - if you look like someone recognisable from the big screen - or have similar qualities - the better it is for you, the most successful foreign man I knew with Chinese women - by far - was an African-American. If youn dress like a 'gangsta' with your arse half-way up your trousers then you're getting nowhere.

This is why if you're bald - people will say you look like Bruce Willis/Vin Diesel, if you're black - you look like Will Smith or a famous basketball player that they like etc - their reference point for you are movie stars and sports stars - the less you are 'movie star looking' the harder it will be to date successfully (they don't give a shit about anyone looking like Danny DeVito or Bob Hoskins)

Of course, there are women who would never date a black man, there are women who would never date a white man either. Same rules apply for both races though more women would date a white man than a black man.

'White' is a broad church and can mean Arabs, Latin Americans, mixed race people etc.

Being seen with a foreigner can cause potential loss of face for a local woman, it's rarely, if ever is it a face gaining exercise to be seen with a foreign man - so a Chinese girl being seen out with you means she likes you - a lot.

Facial hair and beards - most Chinese women I have spoken to about this don't like facial hair of any kind.

Being able to speak Chinese is a massive weapon in getting the most beautiful of Chinese women - the most beautiful Chinese women who liked me (and trust me, they were world class! ) couldn't speak English or speak very little.

The gap between a woman liking you and her dating you becoming your girlfriend is far far wider than it is back home - the gap between a woman liking you romantically and dating you back home is rather small - in China - the gap is quite large as factors such as cultural differences, social stigma outside the tier 1 cities, language, family pressures etc - means that if a woman likes you (a lot in a lot of cases) doesn't mean she will date you or become your girlfriend.

You see the fat, ugly, badly dressed etc Chinese men with beautiful women - the standards that are set for you are not set for them - the standards set for them are entirely different and nowhere near as harsh as they would be for you (see point number 1, though you won't be judged on your salary, family background, if you own a house/car etc) - the world, and planet China - life isn't fair - get used to it.

Nice aftershave works wonders in this country - where the natural odours are rotting cabbage, rotten eggs, cigarette smoke, car exhaust fumes and urine. I get twenty time more comments on how nice I smell than on how nice I dress - if you invest in some nice aftershave - Chanel Blue or Dior's Eau Sauvage - you're doing yourself a big favour.

Tier one cities are a double eged sword - more places to meet women but more competition - outside of tier one cities - far less competition but more social stigma being seen out with you. So wherever you pick to live - you will have challenges.

If I can think of anything else, I will add and amend to it.

[MarcosZeitola]

What I wonder about is anti-American or anti-Western sentiments among ordinary Chinese? There's quite a lot of anti-China stories floating around in the Western media, courtesy of the trade war with America and the concentration camps as well as the mess in Hong Kong. Likewise, I often hear about Chinese perceiving Western nations, primarily the US and UK, as "meddling in their internal affairs".

Does any of this have an effect on how foreign men are perceived in China, even as potential romantic partners or even friends? You wouldn't even have to be a terribly outspoken foreigner, but do you foresee a point in time where simply 'being a foreigner' or 'being American' could be seen as a bad thing and of itself?

In other, poorer, Asian countries there's the leverage of wealth. No matter how shitty the American military would be perceived in the Philippines, for example, any Yankee is still a lot better off financially than the vast majority of local men. Whereas in China, I reckon the average English teaching foreign expat has much more competition from the local male populace, where even the ones who are a far cry from Bruce Lee may still be able to get the girl a far better life, with none of the stigma attached to the relationship.

[yick]

What I wonder about is anti-American or anti-Western sentiments among ordinary Chinese? There's quite a lot of anti-China stories floating around in the Western media, courtesy of the trade war with America and the concentration camps as well as the mess in Hong Kong. Likewise, I often hear about Chinese perceiving Western nations, primarily the US and UK, as "meddling in their internal affairs".

Does any of this have an effect on how foreign men are perceived in China, even as potential romantic partners or even friends? You wouldn't even have to be a terribly outspoken foreigner, but do you foresee a point in time where simply 'being a foreigner' or 'being American' could be seen as a bad thing and of itself?

In other, poorer, Asian countries there's the leverage of wealth. No matter how shitty the American military would be perceived in the Philippines, for example, any Yankee is still a lot better off financially than the vast majority of local men. Whereas in China, I reckon the average English teaching foreign expat has much more competition from the local male populace, where even the ones who are a far cry from Bruce Lee may still be able to get the girl a far better life, with none of the stigma attached to the relationship.

It's interesting because the United States is known as mei guo (美国) which means 'beautiful country' in Mandarin Chinese and a lot of ordinary Chinese people profess an admiration or a desire to see the country. Saying this, it could all change as the present Xi administration is becoming more nationalistic (saying this, I saw a lot more anti-Americanism in South Korea).

Of course, the downsides are well known, the gun culture, crime etc but it was a surprise to see a lot of Chinese people I speak to are pretty pro-American and they're very interested in the culture, a lot of Chinese youth love basketball and the country was in mourning over the death of Kobe - it was in the lead in the news here despite Coronavirus nabbing all the headlines.

I don't think it will ever be a 'negative' to be a foreigner in China but being with one romantically doesn't lend itself to gaining face, which is important here - I don't think that has ever been the case, saying that - there are women here who do like foreigners or like the 'qualities' a lot of them possess (height, certain facial features like eyes, nose, skin tone) and I think that a foreigner with things going for them will always be all right, saying that, language helps and knowing Chinese helps - the less you know the harder it is going to be, especially outside tier 1 cities.

Most foreigners aren't in with a chance with the poorer girls who don't speak English - in fact, the vast majority of female interest in foreigners here are from middle class girls with a university education or at least with an interest in upward mobility - I think the two sectors of Chinese society that wouldn't have any interest in a foreigner are the lowest and highest classes - I don't think a foreigner could go to the Chinese countryside, settle in some little town where he is the only foreigner and start dating all the local eligible beauties - I don't think he would get anywhere, even if he was young and very handsome. They would see him like they would see an alien from outer space.

The girls foreigners here are eligible for have an interest in other cultures, can speak some English (at least...), have a family with money, have general prospects, have a good education and have been to university, like western films, music - they range from plain janes to the most beautiful women you will ever see.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Being black isn't the handicap you might think it is, again - if you look like Denzel, Will Smith or someone recognisable then the better it is for you - same rules apply as they do with white guys - if you look like someone recognisable from the big screen - or have similar qualities - the better it is for you, the most successful foreign man I knew with Chinese women - by far - was an African-American. If youn dress like a 'gangsta' with your arse half-way up your trousers then you're getting nowhere.

Of course, there are women who would never date a black man, there are women who would never date a white man either. Same rules apply for both races though more women would date a white man than a black man.

All this tends to be true in most countries of the world in my experience. But you nailed it in a manner which I have never before seen put so well.

[yick]

Being black isn't the handicap you might think it is, again - if you look like Denzel, Will Smith or someone recognisable then the better it is for you - same rules apply as they do with white guys - if you look like someone recognisable from the big screen - or have similar qualities - the better it is for you, the most successful foreign man I knew with Chinese women - by far - was an African-American. If youn dress like a 'gangsta' with your arse half-way up your trousers then you're getting nowhere.

Of course, there are women who would never date a black man, there are women who would never date a white man either. Same rules apply for both races though more women would date a white man than a black man.

All this tends to be true in most countries of the world in my experience. But you nailed it in a manner which I have never before seen put so well.

Cheers for that!

[chanta76]

With the coronovirus I imagine the relationship will sour more with the west.

[HappyGuy]

With the coronovirus I imagine the relationship will sour more with the west.

Yes but not how you'd expect, the Chinese government has convinced people that foreigners are at fault and ex-pats living in China carry the virus and infect the Chinese.

[chanta76]

And if yout chinese descent in any parts of the west there is increase in xenphobia.towards the chinese or chinese looking.

[HappyGuy]

Sep 18, 2019: Why I Changed my Opinion on China

"I've lived in China for over 10 years, and over that time, my opinion of the Chinese government and society has drastically changed. Here's why"



Nov 6, 2019: How China Destroyed Me...

[tjh14]

"Whereas in China, I reckon the average English teaching foreign expat has much more competition from the local male populace."

It depends on what city in China. I lived in Chongqing where the per capita income was about $3,000 a year at the time. I had 2 jobs and a rent free apartment and made about $2,000 a month. In Beijing or Shanghai, the incomes are higher but so are the foreigner salaries. We can't compete with the high rollers but we make much more money than the average Chinese.

There is no stigma attached to a white, educated foreigner marrying a Chinese woman. Almost all the foreign teachers I knew married Chinese women eventually and I've never heard of any disapproval by the family. I am back in the USA for a while but will likely come back to China in a year or two, assuming conditions are safe. My wife's family brags about their daughter living in the USA. It's a status symbol not a source of embarrassment.

[yick]

"Whereas in China, I reckon the average English teaching foreign expat has much more competition from the local male populace."

It depends on what city in China. I lived in Chongqing where the per capita income was about $3,000 a year at the time. I had 2 jobs and a rent free apartment and made about $2,000 a month. In Beijing or Shanghai, the incomes are higher but so are the foreigner salaries. We can't compete with the high rollers but we make much more money than the average Chinese.

There is no stigma attached to a white, educated foreigner marrying a Chinese woman. Almost all the foreign teachers I knew married Chinese women eventually and I've never heard of any disapproval by the family. I am back in the USA for a while but will likely come back to China in a year or two, assuming conditions are safe. My wife's family brags about their daughter living in the USA. It's a status symbol not a source of embarrassment.

Like you said, it depends on the city.