Winston wrote: ↑July 18th, 2020, 2:48 am
Regarding the above hypermak:
First of all, Yohan is the wrong person to ask about that. He's never met me and cannot say. You should ask someone like Rock about that. Rock has met me many times and is in a better position to judge. But even he doesn't really know. Rock says that I am friendly and likable and do not give off any bad vibes. So he cannot explain why me and Taiwanese rub each other off the wrong way (in my previous post though, I gave some possible theories that might explain why though). What Rock and most others say is that most likely, me and Taiwanese people have a personality/communication CONFLICT of styles. They do not like the direct/open approach, and I do not like their subtle/indirect approach.
I am not the biggest expert on Asian cultures, either, but I like to think I have a mind and can make some critical thinking based on what I read as well as my personal experiences with Taiwanese (like Matteo) as well here in the Philippines.
I think the key here is
conformism. Asians in general love conformity and comformism. A man who is well adjusted to his study/find a job/get married/spend/have kids/work some more/spend some more/die routine is considered well disciplined and accepted, or welcome, in their societies. He is considered as someone who has learned to be productive and contribute to society, like everyone else, so he is automatically worth respect and admiration.
Agreed about the "open approach". As you probably know Asian cultures are all about creating and maintaining harmony. This is also reflected in their cuisine. From Novelle Cuisine to modern Fusion and Molecular Gastronomy, European gastronomy has always been about surprising, creating contrasts and challenges and then resolving them. Metaphorically speaking, Japanese fine dining is like a walk in one of their magnificent gardens, perfectly crafted to look natural when, in fact, they're man-made. Modern European or US fine dining is often like being in a theme park, with all sorts of weird and wonderful rides.
So, we Europeans are more used to engaging our audience, whether it's food or a conversation. We expect our audience to have a more open mind and be ready to be challenged and enjoy that challenge. Asian cultures are all about testing the audience to respond in a compliant, conformist way. It's the ability to express that compliance and conformity that's praised, not individualism.
Of course advanced Asian cultures like the Japanese have found plenty of outlets to express individuality, but always in a safe, socially-accepted way. That's one of the reasons why, in Japan, stuff that would be considered perverted or morally objectionable elsewhere is perfectly fine by them: it serves as an outlet, to keep the ducks in order during their socially productive time. One Japanese exec I met in Dubai once told me: you can be a criminal outside the kitchen and that doesn't matter so long you're the immaculate fine culinary artisan in the kitchen.
So, for the little I know about Japan and Taiwan, they both look to me as highly conformist societies. Perhaps you're too much of a free thinker, an anti-conformist to catch their favour or interest. In a place like Taiwan, you represent the odd man out, the minority so, in that sense, the problem is you.
That doesn't mean that you have a problem or you are a problematic person, far from it. This actually explains why, as yourself say, you found yourself more comfortable around people who value deep, intellectual conversations that express your own opinion, rather than some collective thinking or common sense. Obviously, with all their trouble, some Eastern European countries are still full of people who value that type of person and that type of conversation.
From my personal experience with Russians, Ukranians, Romanians and other Slavic people, I could see there are plenty of intellectual lazy people there, too. However I did meet some very intelligent, well educated and opinionated people and enjoyed talking to them. So I definitely understand where you're coming from.
Winston wrote: ↑July 18th, 2020, 2:48 am
Also, Taiwan is like the US in that you gotta learn how to break into cliques to have a social life. It's not like Russia or Latin America where you can be alone and people will be glad to talk to you and socialize with you freely. I've never been good at breaking into cliques. It's not my style. That's why I never had any social life in high school. I don't vibe with that type of wavelength where no one likes you for you, and you gotta break into a clique to have a social group. I've never figured out how to do that. It's not me. It feels awkward to even try.
From what I have seen Taiwanese and Japanese, and even Chinese, love to socialise over food and drinks. That's what they can let their hair down, so to speak, and be more open about what is really going on in their lives and what they think about themselves and each other. Unfortunately it does look like the people they drink with are their inner social circles: their direct coworkers, their family members, some old friends in the best cases. Breaking into these "cliques" might not be easy if you don't have a job in Taiwan, or you don't have family members who have these social habits and will invite you to join them.
In any case, as you probably know, it's always going to be a male-only affair. No girls
Still, it would be a step forward into you feeling more accepted and getting less bored.
I would have thought clubs and meetup groups dedicated to interacting with foreigners, or about specific hobbies and interests, would have been good for you. Then you told me about your Greek friend not having a good time over there. Disappointing.
Winston wrote: ↑July 18th, 2020, 2:48 am
Think about this hypermak: Think of all the best friends and female partners you've had. Did you have to follow some complicated "social skills technique" or formula or rocket science to meet them? Or did it happen naturally? The latter of course. Remember the scene in that weird sitcom "That 70's Show" where a bunch of nerds use a chalkboard to figure out a complicated rocket science formula for how to make friends? That scene was very wrong because in the 1970's, making friends wasn't rocket science like it is now. So that show was dishonest to pretend that making friends has always been as awkward and complicated as it is today in modern America. Anyone who grew up in the 70's knows otherwise.
I grew up in late 90s and early 2000s Italy where it was still possible to base human relationships entirely over physical interactions. There were no social media, Internet was there but only limited to email and web and SMS texts were too expensive to use them for back-and-forth chatting.
This doesn't mean interacting with your peers, especially with the girls, was a lot easier. It was probably not more complicated than it is now, but definitely not "natural" as you put it. Rules are almost never natural, they have to be learned and practiced. Conforming to those rules would give you a golden chance to be one of the popular guys, or hang out with the populary boys (and girls). Not conforming would almost always kick you aside and make you feel a misfit, an outcast. We still had music on vynils and CDs and music was one of our shelters. In some cases videogames were, too.
For example, I had to learn to play football almost to a decent level even though I loved volleyball a lot more (I used to play in a local juniores team) simply because being crap at it would have had me ridiculed by the other boys.
My home is in Veneto, a region that is legendary for its industrious and creative people. So many of these misfits found their safe zones in a craft or job that would express their individuality and distance from the ordinary, the normal. And we are indeed proud of them: the textile and wood artisans, the furniture designers...the food specialists, among them.
Almost everybody, be them in Italy or the US or China, has their growing pains. I understand where you're coming from and why you're critical but, at least as far as what I went through and saw everybody else going through, learning to "play by the rules" to be accepted in a specific community or adult society has never been easy. There might be situations where your social circle is naturally closer to your personality and life choices, in which case it might be easier to adapt and fit in. But it's never too natural or easy.
Winston wrote: ↑July 18th, 2020, 2:48 am
Second, you asked if the problem is me. I've addressed that thousands of times. Consider this. If the problem is me then:
1. How come I don't have a problem in most other countries? Click on the Russia video playlists in my signature link for proof that you can't deny. I filmed all that so I'd have proof to show you guys, rather than my words alone.
2. How come some white travelers like @El_Caudillo felt the same way about Taiwan? He felt no connection with Taiwanese either, and also noticed that they lacked enthusiasm or interest in making new friends. In fact, Rock told me recently that he doesn't socialize in Taiwan much easier. See his long message that I posted above in this thread. In addition, zboy1 also reported feeling negative vibes/energy in Taipei too.
3. How come honest Taiwanese will gladly admit that their women do not like talking to strangers and are not open to it? They won't deny that. So what I said is not untrue of course. But you gotta ask HONEST Taiwanese who are no-nonsense and no bull and not trying to be politically correct or say whatever is popular. If you ask the trendy politically correct type that always says whatever is popular, they will deny everything I say of course, because it's not trendy to say the stuff I say.
Did you take those factors into account hypermak before wondering if the problem is me?
As I explained before, saying that the problem is you in Taiwan doesn't mean you are a problematic man, or you would have problems everywhere. I agree with you that, if you are a free thinker and enjoy non-trivial conversations and are not afraid to put your opinion on the table, the Slavic countries might be a better fit for you. I didn't click on all the videos but did see a couple of Russian cuties starting some random conversations with you. So that's some good proof, I guess.
Winston wrote: ↑July 18th, 2020, 2:48 am
What I've noticed is that everyone has a different chemistry/vibe that rubs off different in different countries. Some people even claim New York and Hong Kong are warm and friendly. Maybe they are lying, who knows. But I've noticed that some people generate a certain vibe/chemistry that creates positive energy in certain places, even if it's California or New York or Hong Kong, and as a result, that positive energy they produce results in people being more "warm and friendly" to them than otherwise. Hence they experience people as being warm and friendly to them. In a sense, they bring it out in others. You know what I mean? I'm sure all you guys have met types like that. They are not always good looking either. Sometimes they are plain or average looking. But something about them brings out positive energy in others, hence others treat them better and show them a friendlier face. And they receive more hospitality from others.
I've experienced that too. I notice that my aura/vibe brings out positive energy from strangers in Russia and Eastern Europe for example. So I receive more hospitality from those areas than an average American or average Asian might. Another factor is that my personality is more on the wavelength of Russia, because in Russia, people are blunt and real and tell it like it is. And they are deep too. They don't like fake politeness like Taiwanese and Californians do. Thus my wavelength was more on the wave that Russians in Russia are. Hence I experience more synergy and connection. That is an obvious factor. Because as you all know, I'm not fake and do not do fake politeness, especially not like NE Asians and Californians do. As a result, I felt a lot more extroverted in Russia and could be myself, which boosted my confidence and self-esteem too. That's why it was an awakening experience to me. As Grunt said:
"If anyone feels they "come out of their shell" when overseas, try to keep something in mind. That person you are overseas is the real you. The person you are in America is a prisoner, nothing more." - Grunt
Do you understand me better now @hypermak? I've already articulated quite a lot above.
I have never thought about interacting with people in terms of positive or negative energy. There are people who simply don't think the way we do and are not open to a healthy debate, or want to start a debate with the intention of "winning it". This happens anywhere in the world, even on this forum. Lots of people I liked or like in my life come across as incredibly positive, sunny, friendly. Later in life I realised why: because they are used to never taking any position. Whatever you say, they keep smiling and laugh it off, they never allow themselves to slip into a debate where their real opinions (if they have any) will come out and clash against the other guy's own opinions.
Maybe these people will make you feel good and radiate positive energy. In the end, it doesn't take much to realise that having a conversation with them is having a conversation with a mirror. They just bounce back whatever you say back to you, avoiding any confrontation. I used to love and even envy these kinds of people many years ago. Now I surely don't hate them, but I don't have a lot of respect for them, since they purposely avoid showing who they really are or what they really think.
Maybe these super-polite Taiwanese or Americans are a bit like these kinds of people: they will try hard to be positive and nice and polite and never slip into a verbal confrontation, yet at the end you might be disappointed with them.
I think most Asian societies have this non-confrontational, polite but ultimately fake behaviour ingrained in their social DNA. Our job to like it or not. For what is worth, I have found quite a lot of deep, mature, critical thinkers here in the Philippines. Maybe you should give this country a chance, instead of Taiwan...
