Are these things true about China?

[Cornfed]

It would appear they are prepared to trade having a fair about of control over 7 billion people for having total control over about 700 million. It seems like a reasonable trade. They don’t really need that many slaves and many of the current ones are just useless eaters to them.

[HouseMD]

It would appear they are prepared to trade having a fair about of control over 7 billion people for having total control over about 700 million. It seems like a reasonable trade. They don’t really need that many slaves and many of the current ones are just useless eaters to them.

You... Really don't understand power

[Cornfed]

It would appear they are prepared to trade having a fair about of control over 7 billion people for having total control over about 700 million. It seems like a reasonable trade. They don’t really need that many slaves and many of the current ones are just useless eaters to them.

You... Really don't understand power

You don't understand animal husbandry. Farmers reduce there stock when their farms are overstocked all the time.

[Winston]

Rock's take on this thread. Note that "Yan" is one of his Chinese lady friends.

[11/17, 4:29 PM] Rock Philippines: Yohan's reply is naive and outdated. Things have been changing dramatically in China since the Olympics and especially after Xi came into power. A lot of regular Chinese citizens don't even know what is going on around them or rather don't want to know. They are fine as long as they can live their lives in their work/school/family bubbles. Yan is like that. But my Chinese defector friend in Gaoxiung is not. She is very wise and has been a victim before so abandoned ship. I think the answer of Marcos sounds pretty accurate. I haven't seen first hand the horrors of Xinzhang but I've seen how cruel Chinese can be to animals and how horribly authorities the treat the Falun Gong, who are very active in Taiwan, and the citizens of Hong Kong. My HK friend Ada who went to school with me at Chinese University in Hong Kong has been financially ruined and is trying to get out of Hong Kong. Back when the protests were at their worst, she said it was very dangerous just to go out side and ride the MTR. Make no mistake. Today's CCP wants total control. The comment Marcos made about Muslim groups reminded me of the Arab Spring and I saw first hand earlier this year in Cairo how authorities need to behave to keep those types of people in check. I've never seen anything like that before. I myself was stopped and searched for over 30 minutes 2 times in 3 days by military police and then by plainclothes policemen. If you have anything questionable in your phone (photo of a government building, re-posting an article about the authorities there) they blindfold you, take you away, and you rot in jail indefinitely. China is more organized and they don't play. As a foreigner, you usually just get thrown out and blacklisted. But locals get tortured and I absolutely believe the CCP, give the cold pragmatic nature of the Chinese in general, have no qualms about harvesting organs. Never believe the China apologists. They are either in on it (American elite interests) or else blissfully ignorant.

[11/17, 4:32 PM] Rock Philippines: I found out that I know a lot more about what is going on than Yan. When I brought up some of these things with her, she was like, "I don't know" and she was more interested in talking about the mundane affairs at her Sedberg School which I found pretty dull. But she is aware of the social credit score system being ramped up and since she behaves and is a teacher, she's ok with it. However, her dad used to be big in Fuzhou construction and had problems with others cheating him and ran up debts so now, his credit is not so high and I don't think he can buy anymore property or do certain things. He may not be able to travel by plane either, I'm not sure.

[11/17, 4:33 PM] Rock Philippines: Maybe people like her know and just don't care. They are good Chinese who just follow the rules and don't think too much about such things, exactly as the CCP wants.

[11/17, 6:00 PM] Rock Philippines: I am a lot more jaded about China than you are but really, the people I know in Taiwan are not so naive. They know how CCP is from their grandfathers and great grandfathers. During their era, Taiwan was under martial law and CKS was also employed a zero tolerance policy for communist sympathizers and suspected spies. Still, Taiwan's path was one to democracy, not to authoritarianism. So you see, the west invested decades of goodwill towards CCP after they switched allegiance to them. The assumption was that it would play out the way Taiwan did but the center and hardline of the communist party never intended that. Warring States Period was one of their guiding philosophies yet those in the US who realized this including certain defectors never gained credibility with the right people. Today we can see CCP for what it is and now it's very late even if we decide to change our policy. Taiwan on the other hand has been a model country in every sense. It's perhaps the only successful example of a successful democratic Chinese country in all of history. All other democratic Chinese societies are contained within other nations including the US.

[Yohan]

Rock's take on this thread. ...
[11/17, 4:29 PM] Rock Philippines: Yohan's reply is naive and outdated. Things have been changing dramatically in China since the Olympics and especially after Xi came into power.
....
They are fine as long as they can live their lives in their work/school/family bubbles. Yan is like that. But my Chinese defector friend in Gaoxiung is not. She is very wise and has been a victim before so abandoned ship.

[11/17, 6:00 PM] Rock Philippines:

Today we can see CCP for what it is and now it's very late even if we decide to change our policy. Taiwan on the other hand has been a model country in every sense. It's perhaps the only successful example of a successful democratic Chinese country in all of history. All other democratic Chinese societies are contained within other nations including the US.

There is surely a big difference between the opinion of an US-citizen living in Taiwan and an European living in Japan.

An US-citizen in Taiwan is sitting on a political power keg, while an European in Japan feels pretty safe.

Taiwan has only 24 million people, and Japan has 127 million.

The US-military is rather far away from Taiwan, while Japan has a huge US-military presence for protection within its own territory.

And not to talk about the size of the Taiwan military compared to the Japanese military....

Politically interesting, while Taiwan is so wonderful, successful, democratic etc, only a few mini-countries are considering it worth to keep a diplomatic relationship with it. Even USA gave up Taiwan politically, but is still supporting it somehow 'from behind'. What dishonest policy is that?

China might cause nightmares to people in Taiwan, the future is unclear - however this is not the case for Japan. China never questioned the existence of Japan as an independent country, but concerning Taiwan it clearly does and wants Taiwan under its control, even openly threatening military force.

I am surely not a friend of China especially not of the present president, but I do not want to present China worse than it is.
While the Communist government wants to control everything, daily life for ordinary citizens, local Chinese people is not that bad - compare it with many other countries in Asia and worldwide too.

Chinese defector? LOL Most Chinese who want to leave China apply for a passport and have no problem to leave China on one of these many regular international flights - but their only really serious problem is to find a Western-minded country which is willing to let them in.

--------------------------------------------------------------

These threads below were not created by me, but by other members, including Winston....
They sounds often to me that China is more welcoming to foreigners than Taiwan...

viewtopic.php?t=33192
36 Freedoms/Benefits in China That America Doesn't Have!

About people in Taiwan, compared to China mainland....
what shall I say....for sure women in Taiwan are not very open-minded to foreign men, known rather as arrogant and demanding....
Taiwan has clearly some social issues, no question about that.

viewtopic.php?style=1&f=5&t=42507
How can Taiwan be "friendly" if no one wants to be your friend? 10 Reasons Why Taiwan is Unfriendly

[Winston]

Good points Yohan.

I agree that while China isn't perfect and has some drawbacks, it receives a lot of unfair criticism that it doesn't deserve, just like Donald Trump does. It seems the media is out to twist and distort everything about China into the negative, and will even make up stuff that's not true. Why does it do that? And why doesn't China produce any videos to counteract all these lies and distortions about China? Doesn't China care about all the negative press coverage? Why does it do nothing and sit there like a sitting duck in a shooting gallery? Do big websites like China Smack try to debunk any of the lies and exaggerations about China in the Western media and Taiwanese media?

It is true that Rock has an anti-China bias. He is on the bandwagon of Taiwanese and liberals in America who believe black and white that: Everything in Taiwan = Good, and Everything in China = Bad. lol. I've never understood such extreme black and white thinking, especially since it doesn't fit what I see at all. But there is a hive mind that believes that and has jumped on the bangwagon.

What irks me most as a pet peeve is when the US media constantly uses this ONE stupid example to try to prove that America is free and China is not. For example, John Stossel on Dateline NBC used that one example too. (See here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFFgN44KPmk) That is to show that China does not allow public protests against government policy, but the US does, therefore the US is free and China is not. That is SOOOOOOOOOOO FRIGGIN STUPID! As if that one little thing makes a country free or unfree. There are MANY different types of freedoms in life. Not just one. That is a pathetic example too, and is testament to America's LACK of freedom, if that's the only thing it can come up with to try to prove that America is free. If that is the best example of freedom, then that means America can't be free, otherwise they'd give a better example.

Who cares if you are allowed to protest in America? It doesn't usually accomplish anything anyway and doesn't change government policy. So protesting is useless. And besides, most people aren't involved in protests or marches or rallies anyway. So why is this important? It isn't of course. It's trivial. But the stupid US media can't come up with any reason to show that America is freer than China, so it only uses this one as an example. Very stupid.

I could bring up other trivial stuff to show that China is freer than the US, for example:

- In China you don't have to pay tips in restaurants or taxis or barbers. It's not a social obligation like in the US.
- In China you can check out of hotels at 3pm, rather than 11am like in most US hotels.
- In China the cost of living is lower, so you don't have to work or pay as much as you do in the US.
- A Chinese citizen working abroad doesn't have to pay taxes to the Chinese government, but a US citizen abroad does.
- A Chinese citizen abroad doesn't have to report his bank balance abroad to the Chinese government, but a US citizen does.
- A Chinese market worker can sell stuff on public streets without a permit, but you can't do anything in the US without a permit.
- Traffic laws are not strict in China like they are in the US.
- Cops in China are laid back and don't bully people or threaten people like US cops like to do.
- A male boss in a company can flirt with his secretary without being reported for sexual harassment. Men are allowed to be men in China, it's not criminal to be attracted to your secretary. The US doesn't respect that unlike other countries.
Etc.

So you see, I can come up with all kinds of trivial things to try to prove that China is freer than the US. Why doesn't the US media bring up any of those things above? f***ing bastards.

[Winston]

Btw @Yohan did you listen to this 2 hour podcast where me, ethan_sg and bao3niang (two other Asian freethinkers on this forum before) talked about some of the social and personal freedoms in China that America lacks? If so, what did you think of it? Any comments?

[Yohan]

Good points Yohan.
I agree that while China isn't perfect and has some drawbacks, it receives a lot of unfair criticism that it doesn't deserve
-----
the media is out to twist and distort everything about China into the negative, and will even make up stuff that's not true. Why does it do that? And why doesn't China produce any videos to counteract all these lies and distortions about China? Doesn't China care about all the negative press coverage?

Very true...

US media is much into misleading its citizens. Most of its broadcasting is into advertisement, mixed up with stupid movie clips, but good and balanced information/education is not its strength.

About China, there are many videos not only made in China, but also made by Japanese camerateams from various broadcasting stations, which are into daily life in China. In general living standard in China is often compared with Thailand, about same income per person - even about the same political rules - don't start with talking anything against the government and its leading party and you are fine, no problem at all in your daily life.

Chinese citizens in general are not that rich, but also far away from calling to be poor...Compare China with Bangladesh, Cambodia, Philippines but also India, Pakistan and not to forget North Korea etc.

Of course especially elderly Chinese people compare their life now with their life during WWII and Mao-times and it is such a difference and they are happy about it - and holding national feelings they are very proud of the status of China now.

My wife was working in a Tokyo branch office of a Chinese large company in Dalian 大连市 for more than 10 years and there were no problems at all between the Chinese and Japanese staff and she was also many times in Dalian - flight tickets were given out for free from time to time to visit the headoffice and facilities and Japanese citizens are visafree to China for 2 weeks, daily several flights...no problems at all after arrival in China...

There are MANY different types of freedoms in life. Not just one.
-----
I could bring up other trivial stuff to show that China is freer than the US, for example:

- In China you don't have to pay tips in restaurants or taxis or barbers. It's not a social obligation like in the US....etc.

There are more serious issues about freedom than trivial stuff like tips for all and everything - which are an annoying part of the way of 'American life'.

For example:

I see clear differences between China and the US concerning criminality, which makes it a risk in many parts of US-cities to go out for a walk even during daytime if you are living in the wrong neighborhood. Prison population is much higher in USA if you consider its population of 340 million people vs. China of 1360 million people. Racist issues are also a major concern.

US-Police/gun culture is another strange issue - even US-citizens who are living in Japan told me that 'cops are criminals with a badge, or gangsters in uniform' - I never heard something like that from citizens of other countries.

There is also a serious issue regarding medical care and overpriced services vs. medical insurance and bills. This is truly a big headache for many elderly US-citizens even if they have a basic income - in case of a severe illness their private insurance companies have the right to kick them out.

Another issue is homeless, with more than 600.000 people - who are US-citizens - sleeping in the streets.
Some places in USA are looking like refugee camps with alcoholics, garbage and graffiti everywhere.

Labour protection rights are extremely poor in USA, no consideration at all for working people. However the entire legal system for itself is a mess with different laws in every state, causing costly lawsuits about trivial matters all time with people claiming millions of dollars.

The dating scene between men and women in this prudish society/feminist mindset is totally broken, the social life is a joke.

A main issue about US vs. China is however the economic performance. While in China life is improving it is declining in USA. The US Dollar, since my arrival in Japan, lost more than 70 percent of its value (down from USD 1,- = yen 365,- to yen 102,-)

I can continue this list...
-----------------

As I said before, I am not a fan of China, not a place for me - but I am not into making it worse that it is in reality.

[onethousandknives]

I was only in the mainland for about a day total, one night in Shanghai at a hotel before my flight to TW. I didn't do anything cool and basically ate instant noodles in the hotel and went to bed. I went right as Meng got arrested in Canada, so tensions were high but YOLO.

As pro-Taiwan as I am and as big of a shill I'd be for Taiwan (Taiwan plz get me an ARC to shill for you) I personally had no issues transiting in the mainland. I actually quite honestly felt fairly OK there, got decent vibes. It felt a little like TW and Vietnam combined. Airport was clean and tidy, price gouging wasn't too bad on food and I could have a beer at 9AM from a vending machine, flights came on time, custom and border people were pretty courteous, airline staff with China Eastern were super nice. I accidentally handed the hotel clerk 100NTD instead of 100RMB, as both notes are pink/red, and they got a big kick out of it. My taxi got lost, but it ended up only being about $10 for the ride anyway, so I let it slide.

There were a lot of cameras everywhere for sure, and the level of contactless payment/etc was higher than both TW and USA. Some vending machines had no coin or cash slots. I had none of the Chinese apps so I couldn't use a lot of vending machines. Customs didn't screw with me at all or give me any hassle, even though they x-ray your bags in front of you, and I had about 10-12 bottles of vitamins and some chocolate/candy from USA as gifts for people. To be fair, I didn't get screwed with in Taiwan or Vietnam either for that.

One kind of weird incident with police control and all that was my hotel was mapped poorly on the Chinese Google Maps equivalent, and my taxi driver got lost and apparently another did. I went downstairs and the police were there with a taxi driver screaming at the clerks as his passengers didn't want to pay full rate to be driven in circles (I'm assuming.) The police seemed to just stand around and let him blow off steam and yell, and then that was that. Didn't seem like any arrest or something happened like would normally happen in USA for that kind of situation.

I actually had a decent impression during my time there, and would like to return for another vacation or trip one day. I know a single night and transit isn't much to go off, though. I'd personally not be scared of going back, I think as long as you act respectful to authority there and don't show up with dreadlocks and a Bob Marley shirt on, you'll be treated really well. There's shills on both sides of the China issue so it's very hard to get a clear picture of what it's like in the mainland. I'd still rather live in Taiwan for almost certain but with COVID it's been pretty conclusively proven the Western governments can and will be just as authoritarian as China is, and they're aiming for Diet Coke CCP style systems for us.

[Yohan]

You can be guaranteed that, as brainwashed as the average American may be by Fox News and CNN, the average Chinese is brainwashed twice as much.

The question remains however why is it like that.

Nobody can deny that the life of the majority of Chinese people significantly improved during the last decades.

Especially elderly people who still remember the horror of WWII and Mao-big step forward etc. will agree to this.
It is easy to be brainwashed and to be supportive even to a Communist administration in case your own daily life improves from year to year.

On the other side many US-citizens face exactly the opposite, the quality of their life significantly declined and is still declining in almost every aspect since decades, it is not so easy anymore to brainwash US-citizens, they become more mistrusting, more sceptical.

If I compare the exchange rate between Japanese yen and US dollar since I arrived in Japan, I can only say that the US-Dollar lost more than 70 percent of its value. 1 USD = 365,- yen when I finally moved over to Japan and now it is 1 USD = 102,- yen.

Further, the USD always offered fairly good interests for money deposits in banks, like Citibank, 20 or 30 years ago in Japan and the Japanese banks offered nothing. However now interests in any US-bank abroad are down to almost zero.
Citibank, deeply in debts, closed down in Japan, all assets it had were sold to Sumitomo Trust Bank.

No surprise, that Chinese are more brainwashed than US-citizens. I cannot blame them for that.
China - brainwashed, remain silent, but your life improves
USA - brainwashed, violent riots, but your life still declines.....