Yohan wrote: ↑November 30th, 2023, 7:55 am
@MrMan
Maybe you have any comment about this video, what this man says.
In general I think, he is not wrong about Indonesia, he is living there. I find his comment near the end of this video about Chinese Indonesian very right, I had similar experience during my stay long time ago in Malaysia with a Chinese girl and her family.
I would imagine the Chinese community in Medan, where he spent time, is a bit more insulated from Indonesian society than in Jakarta. In Jakarta, if you ride an elevator with Chinese Indonesians, they speak to each other in Indonesian. In Medan, you are likely to hear Hokien or Ke. (I can't tell what it is.) I have a friend who married a Chinese Indonesian, from a well-to-do family at that. She studied in the US. He said that Chinese thought they were better than the pribumi Indonesians, but that whites were about on the same level. I don't know how true that is of other Chinese Indonesian outside of her family. If a Chinese person marries a non-Chinese person, the kids aren't Chinese anymore, so it's a bigger deal for them. Javanese follow the father for cultural identity. Padang follow the mother. Batak will adopt someone into the people-group and give them parents and a family name. But half-Chinese kids aren't acknowledged as Chinese. My friends kids still spent time with their grandparents and other relatives. It's just ethnic identity.
There are a lot of rich Chinese. They tend to try to improve themselves, network for business contacts, emphasize education, etc. But there are poor Chinese, and maybe a poor Chinese girl could see a white guy as a meal ticket.
There were Chinese girls flirting with me and trying to get my attention when I was in Indonesia. I was a young man, and a group of three of them asked me to see Star Wars (again for me) with them, which I did. They wanted me to go to the amusement park. None of them were attractive to me, and I ended up not going. I think one of my (again not too attractive) Chinese middle school students had a crush on me. One of the teachers making eyes at me while I was teaching an English class for the teachers after school was making eyes at me, but her and another female teacher were probably just messing with me.
I think being white is more of an advantage with the pribumi local girls, especially if they aren't rich. But wealthier pribumis may be open to relationships with whites.
However I would be careful, this kind of dating with Muslim women might not work everywhere, you might find yourself somehow in trouble if you approach girls as a foreign man - Indonesian islands are quite different from each other.
In Aceh, it is a bit like Saudi Arabia with some of their local laws. I wasn't going to be able to stay in a hotel room with my wife in Padang with my wife once when we were young because we didn't know we had to bring a copy of our marriage license. But one hotel, maybe the second one we tried, accepted a wedding photo and matching rings as proof.
I would not approach Muslim women in Northern Sumatra and of course never in Aceh, also be careful in villages and rural areas.
My understanding is that Islam allows Muslim men to marry Christian or Jewish women, but not vice versa. The man is supposed to be in charge, so that's probably why.
Fornicating in rural areas might get you in some trouble. Maybe not. Indonesians don't generally tend to be that violent, but occasionally mob rule can take over. And the people are apparently able to be stirred up against the Chinese.
I think however it's ok in the bigger cities in Java, Bali maybe also in Kalimantan and Sulawesi....if you stay longer there why not.
There are large number of Batak in Sumatra, a people-group for which the majority profess Christianity. There are some Muslim Batak to the south, the Mandailing clan, for example. The Karo are also a Batak group. If a white man wasn't a cad, going around sleeping with the girls and he innocently dated young women in those areas, he might be okay. I don't know if villagers date foreigners if they have a chance, but I know of Batak who married whites who lived in the cities or moved abroad to get married.
The Toraja and Manado on Sulawesi have lots of Christians, so dating them shouldn't be an issue if one is single and well-behaved. I suppose it could be, but generally, I think it would be okay. But there has been religious violence around Poso and Tentena over the years. It might be best to avoid dating trying to pick up Muslim women in such areas.
For me, I wouldn't have considered a romantic relationship with a Muslim. Even if a girl was a Christian and she was cool with dating Muslims, that would be the type of woman I would not want to date. Being serious about her own faith was one of my criteria.
Muslim is the 'default religion' in much of Indonesian. In the west, if someone had a Christian grandmother, maybe he went to church a few times in his life, ask him his religion, and he might say 'Christian' even if he isn't religious. Indonesia is like that for Islam, but it is more common for Muslims to have some degree of involvement with the religion. You see people taking breaks to say their Muslim prayers a lot there.
About marriage and religion, just about myself, I would never insist on a female partner to convert for me, and I would not convert for her.
I wouldn't have dated someone outside of my faith. Indonesian requires those who marry to be of the same religion. Those with money could marry in Singapore. I know some expats convert, if on paper, to get married.
I notice he showed a picture of some Asian women in the video. There might be girls who look like that in Indonesia, but I wouldn't call that the typical Indonesian look.