Thailand - Retirement Paradise For Western Men

[ladislav]

Gentlemen, I am bowing out of this Thai discussion with your kind permission, and this is one of those rare instances where I would like to request that we agree to disagree.I have made my point and I do not wish to dredge up the past anymore. It is time to move on for me. This is all creating too much negativity and is affecting my mental health. I have made my claim, I am not lying about anything and do not blame myself unnecessarily. I stand by everything I have said. It is supported by my and my friends' experiences and my knowledge of those languages and numerous encounters. You have made your claims, and from now on it will be up for the reader and members to decide where they want to go. They have been warned by me and encouraged by you. More power to everyone here and thank you for all your time.

[Rock]

Gentlemen, I am bowing out of this Thai discussion with your kind permission, and this is one of those rare instances where I would like to request that we agree to disagree.I have made my point and I do not wish to dredge up the past anymore. It is time to move on for me. This is all creating too much negativity and is affecting my mental health. I have made my claim, I am not lying about anything and do not blame myself unnecessarily. I stand by everything I have said. It is supported by my and my friends' experiences and my knowledge of those languages and numerous encounters. You have made your claims, and from now on it will be up for the reader and members to decide where they want to go. They have been warned by me and encouraged by you. More power to everyone here and thank you for all your time.

Thanks for all your info on this topic. Sorry to hear participating in this thread has brought back bitter and disturbing memories from your time in Thailand. Best you avoid the discussion entirely. I know of many other foreigners who have had bad or even horrible experiences there too. Some of the most exciting countries for fun, dating, and P4P also come bundled with high risk - emotional, financial, and physical.

Since I find this discussion interesting, I hope you don't mind if I perhaps revive it from time to time. I am considering both Thailand and the PI as a potential future Asian base so its very relevant to me.

[ladislav]

Since I find this discussion interesting, I hope you don't mind if I perhaps revive it from time to time. I am considering both Thailand and the PI as a potential future Asian base so its very relevant to me.

As a general point I must say that a lot of my bad experiences in E/SE Asia stem from the fact that I learn languages to the point of fluency very easily. Within six months I am pretty fluent and within a year, it is basically like I am fish in water. It should be an advantage, but very often it is not among the Oriental peoples. In a lot of those countries you are supposed to know your place as in don't dig too much, don't ask too many questions, speak English only and smile back. The people are smiling in your face but the stuff they say behind your back ( or in your face thinking you do not understand) is horrible and what they really think of you is a horrible surprise. Speaking a few words makes you appear cute, being fluent and knowing too much is no good. It makes them feel uncomfortable and you now know the whole truth. In many ways, the locals prefer for you to remain financially flush, colonially arrogant and striding forward as proud as a peacock while in their country on a temporary visa, and not speaking the language except for a few word which makes you as cute as a little fluffy monkey that can talk. Clap clap clap, you hairy white macaque! That is what they have been seeing for centuries. If you remain in that role, it brings no problems neither to you nor to them. Most bad/racial things they say are said in the local language that most guys ( except me) would not know and are said with a big smile. Two-facedness is the norm.

As Mr S has said, a great deal of discussions on comparing good and bad points ( to put it mildly) of certain places with certain peoples usually ends up with personal experiences and perceptions and what one has seen or heard. A lot of it is also colored by feelings/emotions and affections that we grow to nurture and our desire to defend those places and the people we like. Often, as the discussion progresses, we just start exchanging the following phrases:" it never happened to me", "I did not find that", " I have a friend/brother/sister, and he is happy and he never had any problems". And- "oh, maybe it is because you are overweight, too old, you smell bad, you dress badly" and, ultimately,- "you unconsciously exude a bad vibe that the locals pick up on" ( if you are not fat, ugly, old and rude and are actually well dressed and clean and smell good) This is the point at which a discussion withers and this is where we have ended up. It is why I just think we should in fact share our experiences, avoid victim blaming, exercise plain speaking and let third parties decide what they think and the course of action they want to take.

Another thing that I have noticed - not necessarily in this discussion- is that if the nation whose character one criticizes is a nation of color ( non Caucasian) then the "discussers" very often will be quick to start victim blaming. "Oh, maybe it is because you do not understand their culture and it is your fault and actually they are just lovely people, and I never had any problems and I have been there so many times, the locals are so sincere and it is the Joe expat who is so arrogant and they really try to make you feel at home and work with you etc." Then, in the end you may also be labeled a racist. Ouch! I once started talking about how the Japanese do not like to rent to foreigners and it was foreigners who defended them and their lack of non discrimination laws, etc. And they called me a racist.

Oh, those poor cute locals. Coochie, coochie, coochie! Come to papa! We bombed you , we (tried to )colonize( d) you, we were so bad, and we were so bad to Asians in our countries and we called them this and that, but I am not like that, so I am not going to say bad things about them and anyone who dares is a racist. Racist! And these yellow, brown, black people cannot possibly be racist to me, or be bad, it goes against the natural order of things, we are the repentant masters and now we are reformed and we are so nice to them, and trying so hard not to be patronizing, and you racists! Lay off! Hands off my lovelies!

If we start talking about a white nation such as Russia and how one got scammed or beaten or insulted/discriminated/cheated there then none of this " Russians are lovely people and it is your fault that is the problem and you stink and I never had any problems or you are exuding an unseen vibe stuff" is said. Immediately, stern and frowning ( if you can see frowns on posts) responses appear in which people agree with that and start saying- "these damn Commie bastards, these cheats, these dishonest gold diggers, s.o.b.s," etc. No expletives are spared. It is especially true if the Russians treated someone bad who was of color. The unholy wrath of the whole Internet is unleashed on them. Whether this is done consciously or unconsciously is not clear. And no one will accuse anyone of being racist against the Russians. Seen it so many times. And that it is me who actually ends up saying things like- "but guys you went to the country not knowing how things work there and not trying to adjust, never learned the language, never cracked a book on its history or tried to understand its soul" and I get shouted down in the midst of the din of the indignant mob. The colonial guilt of the West is very deeply ingrained. And it only applied to the cute non white peoples of the world.

This is another reason why it is so hard to have objective discussions on such topics not to mention all the negativity that is unearthed and which can ruin one's mood for days.

[globetrotter]

Since I find this discussion interesting, I hope you don't mind if I perhaps revive it from time to time. I am considering both Thailand and the PI as a potential future Asian base so its very relevant to me.

As a general point I must say that a lot of my bad experiences in E/SE Asia stem from the fact that I learn languages to the point of fluency very easily. Within six months I am pretty fluent and within a year, it is basically like I am fish in water. It should be an advantage, but very often it is not among the Oriental peoples. In a lot of those countries you are supposed to know your place as in don't dig too much, don't ask too many questions, speak English only and smile back. The people are smiling in your face but the stuff they say behind your back ( or in your face thinking you do not understand) is horrible and what they really think of you is a horrible surprise. Speaking a few words makes you appear cute, being fluent and knowing too much is no good. It makes them feel uncomfortable and you now know the whole truth. In many ways, the locals prefer for you to remain financially flush, colonially arrogant and striding forward as proud as a peacock while in their country on a temporary visa, and not speaking the language except for a few word which makes you as cute as a little fluffy monkey that can talk. Clap clap clap, you hairy white macaque! That is what they have been seeing for centuries. If you remain in that role, it brings no problems neither to you nor to them. Most bad/racial things they say are said in the local language that most guys ( except me) would not know and are said with a big smile. Two-facedness is the norm.

The fact is that I am well aware of what the Chinese think about Whites. Their attitudes are well documented.

I simply do not mind and do not care. Whilst I don't speak Chinese well enough to understand, my ability to intuit conversations is highly developed. I can figure out what people are talking about without understanding what is being said.

I have had students refer to me as 'part monkey' due to hairy forearms, and I have encountered random adults who do not like me at all.

I also lived in the city of Washington, D.C. for 20 years. For those who are not from DC, there is entrenched pervasive racism from Blacks to Whites in that city. It is everywhere, all the time. After awhile I got used to it. The government even treats its citizens with contempt, and then there was this famous quote from Marion Barry upon his re-election after serving time for crack possession:

"get over it.".

This was directly addressed to the voters of ward 3 in his remarks.

Ward 3 is almost entirely White and Upper Middle Class.

The remark has been interpreted as pure racism by most honest Whites in DC; racism is something that Whites in DC are used to experiencing.

So I just don't care what others think about me.

In the case of Asia, Whites will be often welcomed but badmouthed. An odd combination.

They are not going to change their ways rooted in 5,000 years of history and 2,500 years of Confucianism, so we have a choice:

-Accept or live elsewhere.

However, since China is on the rise their values and perspectives about race and skin color are going to become more and more common as these values subtly work through the channels of international business. Their foreign policy, attitude towards other nations, business demeanor and other attitudes will be infused by this point of view and I do not think anyone is going to get them to change unless they want to.

Consider a world where China is the dominant economic and military power. They think that Blacks are idiots and monkeys, and they waver between feelings of arrogant superiority towards Whites and feelings of inferiority next. How will such a nation behave toward others when they become rich and powerful?

Ignoring them won't make this go away.

[walrusface]

Thailand wasn't paradise for this guy:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-4SEWzn ... re=related[/youtube]

My friend has recently come back from spending a few weeks in Thailand, where he got a girlfriend. He can't wait to go back.

[Think Different]

Since I find this discussion interesting, I hope you don't mind if I perhaps revive it from time to time. I am considering both Thailand and the PI as a potential future Asian base so its very relevant to me.

As a general point I must say that a lot of my bad experiences in E/SE Asia stem from the fact that I learn languages to the point of fluency very easily. Within six months I am pretty fluent and within a year, it is basically like I am fish in water. It should be an advantage, but very often it is not among the Oriental peoples. In a lot of those countries you are supposed to know your place as in don't dig too much, don't ask too many questions, speak English only and smile back. The people are smiling in your face but the stuff they say behind your back ( or in your face thinking you do not understand) is horrible and what they really think of you is a horrible surprise. Speaking a few words makes you appear cute, being fluent and knowing too much is no good. It makes them feel uncomfortable and you now know the whole truth. In many ways, the locals prefer for you to remain financially flush, colonially arrogant and striding forward as proud as a peacock while in their country on a temporary visa, and not speaking the language except for a few word which makes you as cute as a little fluffy monkey that can talk. Clap clap clap, you hairy white macaque! That is what they have been seeing for centuries. If you remain in that role, it brings no problems neither to you nor to them. Most bad/racial things they say are said in the local language that most guys ( except me) would not know and are said with a big smile. Two-facedness is the norm.

The fact is that I am well aware of what the Chinese think about Whites. Their attitudes are well documented.

I simply do not mind and do not care. Whilst I don't speak Chinese well enough to understand, my ability to intuit conversations is highly developed. I can figure out what people are talking about without understanding what is being said.

I have had students refer to me as 'part monkey' due to hairy forearms, and I have encountered random adults who do not like me at all.

I also lived in the city of Washington, D.C. for 20 years. For those who are not from DC, there is entrenched pervasive racism from Blacks to Whites in that city. It is everywhere, all the time. After awhile I got used to it. The government even treats its citizens with contempt, and then there was this famous quote from Marion Barry upon his re-election after serving time for crack possession:

"get over it.".

This was directly addressed to the voters of ward 3 in his remarks.

Ward 3 is almost entirely White and Upper Middle Class.

The remark has been interpreted as pure racism by most honest Whites in DC; racism is something that Whites in DC are used to experiencing.

So I just don't care what others think about me.

In the case of Asia, Whites will be often welcomed but badmouthed. An odd combination.

They are not going to change their ways rooted in 5,000 years of history and 2,500 years of Confucianism, so we have a choice:

-Accept or live elsewhere.

However, since China is on the rise their values and perspectives about race and skin color are going to become more and more common as these values subtly work through the channels of international business. Their foreign policy, attitude towards other nations, business demeanor and other attitudes will be infused by this point of view and I do not think anyone is going to get them to change unless they want to.

Consider a world where China is the dominant economic and military power. They think that Blacks are idiots and monkeys, and they waver between feelings of arrogant superiority towards Whites and feelings of inferiority next. How will such a nation behave toward others when they become rich and powerful?

Ignoring them won't make this go away.

I was born and raised in DC and also got used to the blatant racism and favoritism towards blacks (minorities, as they refer to their majority status). I got used to having rocks thrown at my car, when driving through Anacostia in the evening coming home from work, or having illegal searches of my car by DC cops. And you know what, on a personal level I just don't give a rat's a$$. True, I got sick and tired of the press in DC turning every issue into a racial issue, even if there was no hint of racism. In the same vein, I couldn't care less that the Chinese or other Asians are racist. I know they are, and it doesn't bother me.

Here's my question though: if the Chinese think blacks and whites are idiots and monkeys, then what do they think about the middle easterners, who live right next door to them? How do you think they will handle aggressive Islamic sharia at their doorstep? I'm guessing that the ME is still recovering from Hulagu Khan's conquering of much of the ME 800 years ago. That Islamic uprising in Urumqi in the summer of 2009 seemed to get squelched pretty quickly by the Chinese government. Will they do the same, when radicals start calling from their Western borders? Basically, if the West plays its cards right, the Chinese could be our ace in the hole to stamp out Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. Maybe the West ought to just let the Chinese continue being the racists they are and stop trying to give them "sensitivity training".

[Winston]

Holy smokes. Check out this interview with Steve R (the guy who interviewed me on Blog Talk Radio) by Steve Hoca, where he talks about his amazing dating experiences in Thailand! They will blow you away! I guess Thailand really is a dating paradise. The experiences he's describing are with non-p4p girls too!

http://stevehoca.com/roller-steve-show- ... 2-2012.mp3

[Rock]

Holy smokes. Check out this interview with Steve R (the guy who interviewed me on Blog Talk Radio) by Steve Hoca, where he talks about his amazing dating experiences in Thailand! They will blow you away! I guess Thailand really is a dating paradise. The experiences he's describing are with non-p4p girls too!

http://stevehoca.com/roller-steve-show- ... 2-2012.mp3

Hmm, this guy's experience reminds me of Will N. Dowd's first Philippine trip. Perhaps guys who rate 7 in US or 8.5 with certain Asian girls can get a lot of free and easy action. But 3.5 weeks is just a honeymoon phase. You never really find out what's going on when u visit a country for that period of time. I would love to see photos of the girls he pulled there or the ones Will N. Dowd got in Phils. You get laid a lot and suddenly imagine all those hotties on the Sky Train or in Siam Paragon are the same breed. In my experience, they are mostly very different.

So much has been written on this forum about Thai's disdain for Farang and how poor Issanites from the bottom rung of society have institutionalized bleeding foreigners dry and then spitting them out. While I believe these generalizations are skewed to the negative, they are more than the product of imagination.

Yes, well presented Farang may find it easy to serial date, especially with single moms, girls in their 30s and beyond, and girls considered very unattractive by Thai standards. But if you want quality from an Asian perspective, you will need to put in a lot more work and focus. Unless you have some pop star appeal, are very gifted with women, or fit well a certain spec which is currently in fashion with the young and attractive, it boils down to a choice of quality vs. quantity. Farangs who serial date in Thailand tend to quickly fall into a pattern of low quality partners and/or P4P. Such behavior certainly does not help their image with the locals.

[Jester]

Holy smokes. Check out this interview with Steve R (the guy who interviewed me on Blog Talk Radio) by Steve Hoca, where he talks about his amazing dating experiences in Thailand! They will blow you away! I guess Thailand really is a dating paradise. The experiences he's describing are with non-p4p girls too!

http://stevehoca.com/roller-steve-show- ... 2-2012.mp3

Thanks for bumping this great thread, Mr. W. And Merry Christmas!

[MrPeabody]

There is nothing wrong with Thai women. His story verifies what I experienced. The men who diss Thailand are mongers who had bad experience with p*rostitutes. They go to country X and only meet P4P women and then conclude all the woman in country X only want money. I mean Duh. If a guy is a normal average guy here, he will have the same experience in Thailand.

[Rock]

There is nothing wrong with Thai women. His story verifies what I experienced. The men who diss Thailand are mongers who had bad experience with p*rostitutes. They go to country X and only meet P4P women and then conclude all the woman in country X only want money. I mean Duh. If a guy is a normal average guy here, he will have the same experience in Thailand.

Well no not entirely. Visit a bookstore such as Asia books, go to the Thai Interest section, and you will see scores of books about true life experiences of Farang in Thailand. Many involve relationships with 'regular' Thai girls (girls met through normal channels and/or girls who have never worked in a bar). The endings of these stories are mostly bad for the foreigners involved. Perhaps this kind of stuff makes books easier to sell. But come to think of it, I think success stories would be hot sellers too cus so many desperate guys over there are looking for that inspiration, that hope.

I believe the 'regular' Thai girls who date and interact with foreigners are for the most part, good for the short term but not so much for the longer term. Sure there are plenty of exceptions and I think I even know of some personally. One of my European friends has been married to a same aged 'good girl' for several years and both seem happy and content. And in Pattaya, I've met several guys who have been in long term marriages with Thai girls which on the surface, seem to work to work out well enough at least for these couples to remain together. I don't know what percentage of those are w/former bar girls but I suspect it's not low. So even those can work out if you structure things right - make sure u are worth more to her together than separated or alive than dead, lol.

But in general, Thais seem to lack longer term emotional detachment from all but their mothers and other family members. They are very strong inside and see the world and their situations as constantly changing. They move-on effortlessly from multi year relationships easily once things end.

If I had to generalize, I would guess that on average, Filippinas are a slightly safer bet for the long term than a Thai girl. I remember reading somewhere that Thai girls are more like cats and Filippinas more like dogs when it comes to their relationships with foreign men. I don't know how true this is but I do get the sense that women, at least in the early stages of a relationship, are more subservient to their foreign partners in Phils than in Thai.

[ladislav]

I believe the 'regular' Thai girls who date and interact with foreigners are for the most part, good for the short term but not so much for the longer term

Do keep in mind that Singaporeans, TWese, Koreans and Japanese are also foreigners. Maybe sometimes it is useful to add the word Western or White to the word- foreigner. The word farang also does not mean "foreigner" but it is more like gringo or haole- applied to people of Caucasian races.

[innovatorsclub]

I am Steve who shared just a part of my recent experience in that interview

"But in general, Thais seem to lack longer term emotional detachment from all but their mothers and other family members. They are very strong inside and see the world and their situations as constantly changing. They move-on effortlessly from multi year relationships easily once things end. "

Yes you are correct....Thai gals do put up an emotional guard so they don't get emotionally attatched too quickly..They know that most westerners are and can be players ( they call us butterfly) . I would guess that yes fillipinas are better for the longer term. Thai gals are more open minded and are more likely to take a chance with the hopes it turns into a relationship. Many though have been heartbroken over and over.. Some still are willing to take the chance. We have three matchmakers finding the gals that are ideal for the matchmaking service. BTW the latest member is smoking hot and just as good as the the prettiest one that I dated.
http://www.twitter.com/matchmakerradio

Show us you think beyond your own self interest and get rewarded...referralrerks.me

or get left behind with major regrets later in life

[Rock]

I believe the 'regular' Thai girls who date and interact with foreigners are for the most part, good for the short term but not so much for the longer term

Do keep in mind that Singaporeans, TWese, Koreans and Japanese are also foreigners. Maybe sometimes it is useful to add the word Western or White to the word- foreigner. The word farang also does not mean "foreigner" but it is more like gringo or haole- applied to people of Caucasian races.

Lad, you really exaggerate this out of proportion. Thai is not the paradise for other Asians you think it is. Just ask ManInSiam who spent like 2 months there and is a decent looking and tall Korean American. As I remember, he really got nowhere with his job search nor the many regulars he approached. There's not a magical divide between Asian looking tourists and whites. Just ask my last 2 Taiwanese girlfriends who both spent time with me there. Really, they got treated no better, whether with me or alone. And yes, we all understand when someone barks, farang farang farang. You don't need a PhD in Thai language studies to know when that is happening.

I remember at the airport recently being invited by the Thai authorities to go ahead of the hordes of Mainland Chinese tourists headed for security and after I passed, he started barking to them rudely in broken English about how to go in. Since I am below them according to your world view of Thais, why the better treatment?

Thailand has a much higher percentage of hot girls by NE Asian standards than does Phils. So why is it not more common for Koreans, Japanese, and Taiwanese to pair-up with Thais? Why are Viet girls so much more preferred even though Thailand has such a large number of light skinned beauties.

Well, I think the Asians better understand the short-term nature of Thais. Even my Taiwanese female friends who has been living in Fremont told me that Thai girls over there are by far the sluttiest of all Asians. They are great for sex (Farange, Asian, or other) and shorter term fun but not so much for marriage. Thais tend to be very detached emotionally when it comes to longer term no matter whether you are Farang or Asian foreigner.

[Rock]

I am Steve who shared just a part of my recent experience in that interview

"But in general, Thais seem to lack longer term emotional detachment from all but their mothers and other family members. They are very strong inside and see the world and their situations as constantly changing. They move-on effortlessly from multi year relationships easily once things end. "

Yes you are correct....Thai gals do put up an emotional guard so they don't get emotionally attatched too quickly..They know that most westerners are and can be players ( they call us butterfly) . I would guess that yes fillipinas are better for the longer term. Thai gals are more open minded and are more likely to take a chance with the hopes it turns into a relationship. Many though have been heartbroken over and over.. Some still are willing to take the chance. We have three matchmakers finding the gals that are ideal for the matchmaking service. BTW the latest member is smoking hot and just as good as the the prettiest one that I dated.
http://www.twitter.com/matchmakerradio

Show us you think beyond your own self interest and get rewarded...referralrerks.me

or get left behind with major regrets later in life

In general, the better looking Thai girls are much much hotter than the better looking Pinays. They are taller, have better quality skin, eat healthier food, have prettier facial features, and firmer and sexier bodies. There seems to be more Chinese blood mixed in with a lot of Thais than with Fillipinas which helps plus they just have better and healthier habits in regards to food and sun avoidance.

But Thais tend to be hedonistic. They live in one of the funnest countries in the world. There is glam, glitter, beaches, sun, and parties 24/7. 16 million tourists, predominantly male visit each year from all over the world. The malls and transportation are state of the art.

They live in the moment. They don't want to be saved the way many desperate Fillipinas do. They are way past that stage for the most part. That girl who puts out for you will do likewise for other dudes she finds attractive. Enjoy them for what they are, great short-term partners for sex and fun. They are not holding themselves back out of fear of being hurt. Don't buy into to that butterfly crap. And besides, that word is really only used with P4P girls and low-end sluts anyway, lol. I never heard that from a bona-fide regular gal. That's just the way they are. Are their exceptions? Sure, just as I mentioned in my last post. But understand, Thai gals are great at creating illusions in your mind. Even you pop must realize that much by now. You really need to amp up your intuition and body language reading skills if you are considering one of them for long term.

BTW, Lad will tell you that most Thais totally hate white guys. But consider, the last time he was in country, that younger date of yours might not have even been born yet, lol.