Why do so many people here have a boner for MGTOW?

[Jester]

Im becoming MGTOW now for moral reasons since lust and fornication are a sin.

[Jester]

Why would you imagine MGTOW and HA are polar opposites? I do not label myself with any label but I am most certainly one of the MGTOW men there could possibly be. Is there ANYONE going MORE his own way than me? I doubt it. Further? I live happier abroad. I live in Germany and I can tell you Germany is a much nicer place to live than in the west....even if the buggers did throw me in jail for 19 days recently.

Germany IS the West. And it's every bit as much a feminist shithole as America. You are just seeing it through rose colored glasses because you see America as Hell, so any other place must be Heaven. I can believe Germany makes you happy, that you found your place there, but it's a Western European country with a lot of equality between the sexes, many highly educated women, very low birth rates and run by a female head of state. It's hardly some Utopian man-friendly society, as evidenced by you being thrown in jail recently.

+1 for Truth.

[Jester]

As far as lust goes... lust is not a sin. You can feel lust for your wife, and it would be a heathy feeling. Lust and love can go hand in hand. Lust is what makes us human. It's what makes us men. We must embrace our lust, but keep ourselves in check and preserve our powers for the women who are truly worth our strength and devotion. And then we release our lust... and release it so good they'll walk funny the next day and blush whenever they see you. God never intended men to live as monks. He told us to go forth and populate the earth. He wants us to make love to beautiful women. That is why he made them beautiful, and why he made us lust for them.

Truth from agnostics.

+10

let me add, for NewLife's sake... JESUS was not anti-life. His first miracle was to MAKE WINE, and he told a ribald parable about brides who didn't get laid on their own wedding night.

The "lust is a sin" stuff entered in in the early centuries afterward. perhaps it was an over-reaction to paganism, wherein prostiution (male and female) was included in religious rites. Bt IMO it was already "in the water", due to NeoPlatonism, and cults like Manichae-ism. You see this markedly in the scribblings of that infamous hypocrite Augustine, who gave up a good Tunisian mistress when he became a Christian, then "backslid" and took another mistress, somewhere in there he got engaged to a White Christian girl from a proper Roman family, then turned his back on them all and took a vow of celibacy.

His "City of God" reveals that he CONTINUED to have a morbid obsession with sex.

No way should this guy be revered in the Church.

Anyway my point is, you have to ignore, WEED OUT the anti-life, ascetic crap within Christian tradition. It is NOT from Judaism or Christianity. Its roots are pagan. I am not against all things pre-Christian, but I am not obligated to kiss ass, either.

Zeitola has it exactly right.

[newlifeinphilippines]

Im becoming MGTOW now for moral reasons since lust and fornication are a sin.

Of the many retarded things I have heard you say during your stay on the forums, this is by far the most retarded. It is also the most hypocrical statement ever coming from a man like you, who until yesterday would post almost daily about his need for sex and hookers, girl friend experiences, bargirls... you are a deviant, driven entirely by the lust you now claim to be against, living a Godless life of depravity while hiding behind the facade of a good Christian. You are beyond saving, and we all know it. Why not embrace your true nature? The only way you could ever be free of your "sinful desires" is if you lost were a eunuch.

As far as lust goes... lust is not a sin. You can feel lust for your wife, and it would be a heathy feeling. Lust and love can go hand in hand. Lust is what makes us human. It's what makes us men. We must embrace our lust, but keep ourselves in check and preserve our powers for the women who are truly worth our strength and devotion. And then we release our lust... and release it so good they'll walk funny the next day and blush whenever they see you. God never intended men to live as monks. He told us to go forth and populate the earth. He wants us to make love to beautiful women. That is why he made them beautiful, and why he made us lust for them.

Everyone is a sinner by true nature. Everyone needs saving grace from God to slowly change their life but they will fall time and time again and will struggle with certain sins. No one is beyond saving. If your critical of my new view then thats a good thing and im slowly on a new path from the worldly god hating people like you. jesus was hated by people like you also.

[Winston]

Great points Marcos. I've wondered the same thing. It would seem that MGTOW folks assume that America is the world and therefore the women in America represent women everywhere. In other words, everything is the same everywhere.

The conspiracy movement makes this assumption too. I don't know why cause it's a false assumption. America and the whole world are not the same. Yet most people have this default assumption. It's weird.

But that might be a part of it. Do most folks in the MGTOW movement know about international dating or the benefits of living overseas?

[Billy]

Newlife come on man. Yes guys bait your trolling here as some are religios but come on.

I was MGTOW and am now to. Let me explain. Some countries are toxic in the matter of women. So you train yourself to be able to live without women. It´s as Ghost explained a tool.

Yes shure there is the option to go abroad but for that you need money and a let´s say an anti fragile nature which is not something given to all men. To deal with a different culture and going into risks is not for everybody.

Anyway after some time when men have the money and the psychological ressources they can change their modus operandi.

In short, guys living in p***y hell are like in prison. There is no way in short term. Their reality is the prison. As long as they have not the ressources it makes no sense for them to dream about it all day. Short term holidays may have the opposite effect as the shock of coming back may destroy them and they will become an alcoholic.

So the prison lifestyle becomes their religion. In short no money no honey

MGTOW seems to be the wrong word in this context rather guys in distance to women for limited or unlimited time. GDW(L)(UL)

[S_Parc]

I was MGTOW and am now to. Let me explain. Some countries are toxic in the matter of women. So you train yourself to be able to live without women. It´s as Ghost explained a tool.

Yes shure there is the option to go abroad but for that you need money and a let´s say an anti fragile nature which is not something given to all men. To deal with a different culture and going into risks is not for everybody.

Anyway after some time when men have the money and the psychological resources they can change their modus operandi.

In short, guys living in p***y hell are like in prison. There is no way in short term. Their reality is the prison. As long as they have not the resources it makes no sense for them to dream about it all day. Short term holidays may have the opposite effect as the shock of coming back may destroy them and they will become an alcoholic.

So the prison lifestyle becomes their religion. In short no money no honey

MGTOW seems to be the wrong word in this context rather guys in distance to women for limited or unlimited time. GDW(L)(UL)

Yes Billy, this is a sort of realistic, hands-on type of worldview, which differs from the religious spin of a Marcos, who despite being *happily settled down*, needs to get on the internet and hammer on ppl, as if he needs to constantly justify his state of being.

Remember, when I'd gotten on this forum, I had recently broken up with a Brazilian and was raging against my sister who, BTW, is still crazy as we speak. She's not coming to Thanksgiving dinner with Mel and I. She's formerly excommunicated from my life along with my dad. Back then, I used to pick fights with ppl like Women'sView and so forth. A lot of that bickering was me working through my early family issues.

Well, that part of my life is over and today, like Danielle, I have little to contribute, aside from my non sequitor political a/o arts & entertainment commentaries. Thus, I'm happy and can't fathom, what keeps Marcos and Public coming here, to constantly tell others, what's the true "source of happiness" in men, as if they're Jehovah's Witnesses or something. I can't even sustain much interest in even arguing with anyone more because I just lack the vitriol in me, since life is good and content. I believe that if someone wants to be miserable, that's their prerogative. On the other hand, I think misery is counterproductive and harmful in the end, so a practical daily, step-by-step process of alleviating that, called it XYZ, would be a better option.

[Billy]

S_Park, yeah this religion thing is very popular in the US. Even with the Roosh guys who try to be the die hard rational guys. One has to live with that to some extend.

I think it´s really interesting that it still works with you and Mell. Shows how individual solutions can be. Everybody has to find his own way.

[S_Parc]

S_Park, yeah this religion thing is very popular in the US. Even with the Roosh guys who try to be the die hard rational guys. One has to live with that to some extend.

I think it´s really interesting that it still works with you and Mel. Shows how individual solutions can be. Everybody has to find his own way.

Yes, relationships (or not having relationships) are about living life and the way I see it is that it's a process. If one wants to find "Jesus", join a church or go to some monastery.

And thus, sitting around, talking about Mel all of the time, feels sophomoric. It's working and I'm happy, end of story.

I can imagine some these religious fellows in my shoes. All they'd be doing is bragging, saying that 'I can talk to my GF, not only about why Prof Jerkoff took Chapter 7 out of the control theory mid-term but also about Selma Hayek's b**bs. I'm awesome! I love my woman! etc, etc'

Sure, a lot of that was cool in the beginning but today, it's like the Sunday news. I've moved on to actual living; doing "emotional drugs" was yesteryear's big topic of discussion, though I'm guilty of sometimes getting all lightheaded about that stuff, periodically, but it's no longer my Sermon for a forum.

[newlifeinphilippines]

Everyone is a sinner by true nature. Everyone needs saving grace from God to slowly change their life but they will fall time and time again and will struggle with certain sins. No one is beyond saving. If your critical of my new view then thats a good thing and im slowly on a new path from the worldly god hating people like you. jesus was hated by people like you also.

Jesus was not hated by people like me, in fact I do not dislike Jesus right now, but instead I admire him. He was never anti-sex and he had compassion for people from all walks of life, whether they be rich or poor, moral or immoral. You are right to say that no one is beyond saving, I agree with you entirely. But don't you think being a God-fearing man is enough, you will have to follow in Jesus' footsteps and help your fellow man. THAT is what God wants you to do. He doesn't care if you have sex, if you lust for a beautiful woman. He'll high five you, for appreciating his greatest creation! I am sure God would like a man who gives half his money to charity a lot more then a man who's in Church every Sunday but selfishly keeps all his earnings to himself and looks down on his poorer fellow man.

Do as I do, not do as I say. I think that's the truest way to show that you have truly changed. But what do I know... I am am just a "wordly sinner".

Your right in what some of you say but not alot. First you have to be obedient and your talking about earning yourself to heaven by doing a few good deeds so one can ignore the other bad they do. all sin is sin including lust and fornication and idol worship. except he wants you to lust after your wife. Doing good deeds is not how you get to heaven its the result of salvation grace.

[Jester]

Thus, I'm happy and can't fathom, what keeps Marcos and Public coming here, to constantly tell others, what's the true "source of happiness" in men, as if they're Jehovah's Witnesses or something. I can't even sustain much interest in even arguing with anyone more because I just lack the vitriol in me, since life is good and content. I believe that if someone wants to be miserable, that's their prerogative.

Marcos and Public don't have the freedom (that you have) to openly pursue sex with other women than their wives. Plus Marcos is living 10,000 miles from his wife. So I think both these gentlemen may have a touch of surplus steam to blow off here or elsewhere.

Yes both can and have come on strong in the past - on occasion. But I do appreciate their presence here. For fun, for the thoughts they share, and for the thinking they stimulate.

Do you need this site? Clearly not. You're set. The reason you would stay around, I would think, would be why (I imagine) OutWest stays around. To help and encourage others. Who don't have it made yet.

In any case, may you enjoy the woman you love, may you enjoy the other women you bring in, and may the hair never fall out of your toes.

[Jester]

Your right in what some of you say but not alot. First you have to be obedient and your talking about earning yourself to heaven by doing a few good deeds so one can ignore the other bad they do. all sin is sin including lust and fornication and idol worship. except he wants you to lust after your wife. Doing good deeds is not how you get to heaven its the result of salvation grace.

Jesus left us in charge. What kind of world do you want to shape?

"Faith without works is dead." - James

[S_Parc]

Thus, I'm happy and can't fathom, what keeps Marcos and Public coming here, to constantly tell others, what's the true "source of happiness" in men, as if they're Jehovah's Witnesses or something. I can't even sustain much interest in even arguing with anyone more because I just lack the vitriol in me, since life is good and content. I believe that if someone wants to be miserable, that's their prerogative.

Marcos and Public don't have the freedom (that you have) to openly pursue sex with other women than their wives. Plus Marcos is living 10,000 miles from his wife. So I think both these gentlemen may have a touch of surplus steam to blow off here or elsewhere.

Yes both can and have come on strong in the past - on occasion. But I do appreciate their presence here. For fun, for the thoughts they share, and for the thinking they stimulate.

Do you need this site? Clearly not. You're set. The reason you would stay around, I would think, would be why (I imagine) OutWest stays around. To help and encourage others. Who don't have it made yet.

In any case, may you enjoy the woman you love, may you enjoy the other women you bring in, and may the hair never fall out of your toes.

Jester, you don't get it, I have no interest in other women. Sure, it didn't started out that way. Today, I can just do it with with a RealDoll and hold Mel's hand, and I'm perfectly happy.

And yes, Mel's offered everything to me but I no longer need that. I'd rather have her feel comfortable, and not make her feel like that it's her job to make me erotically satisfied. She's my lifelong partner.

Sure, we still have our adventures with esc*rt gals but in reality, it's not important to me.

[newlifeinphilippines]

Your right in what some of you say but not alot. First you have to be obedient and your talking about earning yourself to heaven by doing a few good deeds so one can ignore the other bad they do. all sin is sin including lust and fornication and idol worship. except he wants you to lust after your wife. Doing good deeds is not how you get to heaven its the result of salvation grace.

A lot of things are sinful according to scripture, but you have to find what works best for you. If everyone and everything can be forgiven, minor sins can be forgiven as well. I'm actually glad you decided to give up on hoes and other degeneracy, but I firmly believe that fornication in itself (consensual sex between unwed partners) is not sinful. I know I'm talking to a brick wall here, as you never had an actual girlfriend who was into you for who you were, so it's not lilke you know the feeling... but some commandments are a bit hard to keep up with. The no sex before marriage one, for example. If you sleep with your girlfriend who you will eventually marry, how have you committed a sin? If anything, I believe my life has been a lot more moral and free of sin then your own.

How I get into Heaven is of no concern to me, and if I get into Heaven isn't either. You changed your life only out of fear for God, and not out of love for Him. You are afraid of hell, which is why you changed your life around. Your motivation is inherently selfish, and you know it. Your devotion is not to God, but to your own salvation. I still have a very hard time seeing you as a moral man, with your past.

Your just like the pharisees. "Look at how good I am" I am so wonderful and moral. Ha you have your own sin to bear your pride and love for it just can't see it. Luckily someone like you isn't the judge.

[publicduende]

Well, that part of my life is over and today, like Danielle, I have little to contribute, aside from my non sequitor political a/o arts & entertainment commentaries. Thus, I'm happy and can't fathom, what keeps Marcos and Public coming here, to constantly tell others, what's the true "source of happiness" in men, as if they're Jehovah's Witnesses or something. I can't even sustain much interest in even arguing with anyone more because I just lack the vitriol in me, since life is good and content. I believe that if someone wants to be miserable, that's their prerogative. On the other hand, I think misery is counterproductive and harmful in the end, so a practical daily, step-by-step process of alleviating that, called it XYZ, would be a better option.

LOL why do you keep pulling me into these topics in the most surreal ways? I have already made it clear in another post, not so long ago, that I have never had any intention to posit my world view and opinions as if they were the Ultimate Gospel. They are a reflection of who I am, who I wanted to be and who I would like to continue being, for the better or worse. Just like yours are a reflection of your past trouble and your (quite admirable) efforts to grow out of it.

This is a public forum and a large part of it (if I don't go wrong) is to share experiences, possibly non fictional ones, knowing full well some (few) parts might tally with other members' life experiences, and many more might not. When I have time, usually at the weekend, and the topic stimulates me, I do share bits of them, but could you please point me to statements - in any of my posts for the past few years - that sound like I'm a cult leader trying to shove his flavour of Truth down other people's throats...

Look, if you consider me and Zeitola as cheesy, hopeless optimists, perhaps you could extrapolate your way to the opposite end of the scale. You would find people who gauge the world through the thick lens of their own negative experiences (family, friends and colleagues, foreign women, women in general etc.) and cannot even begin to imagine that it's those experiences that shaped their perceptions and their opinions.

You would find those opinions are no more no less valuable and applicable than mine, Marcos' and anyone else's for that matter. What actually makes a difference is when these opinions are used as a cloaking for apathy, intellectual laziness, or outright fear. That's why I tend to criticise Cornfed's, Ghost's or Tsar's opinions much more than yours.

I didn't grow up in a dysfunctional family. I had plenty of female role models back in my Italian childhood who were positive, maternal, sweet, wise, even sensual (for what might constitute "sensual" in a child's imagery). I never was brought up to see antagonism or belligerence in my relationships with women, and neither the hundreds of men I know from my social neighbourhoods. If I had travelled and lived in South America for as many years as you did, I would have probably found the stickiness and nosiness of my potential inlaws a few notches above that I was familiar with back home, but probably not that unbearable.

As a matter of fact I do have a Latino extended family back in Medellin, and for the little I know them, they are a huge mixed bag of good and bad stuff. Some of my wife's family members are the warmest, most empathic and genuinely caring people I could ever meet in my life, while some others did come across as envious, hypocrite and unnecessarily nosy. Gosh, even the wealth distribution is a six-sigma kind of thing. One of my wife's cousin is the only Olympic gold winner for Colombia (women's BMX) and from a pretty rich family, while my wife herself had to endure daily struggles just to be able to afford going to a decent (private) school.

To conclude, I'll say it once again (hopefully the last time): I am not starting a happy go lucky matriarchal spaghetti cult any time soon. I appreciate that what I am (and I believe in) is simply a product of what I went through in life, and I am aware that experiences shape people. I am also aware that the converse should also hold true: people should learn to shape their experience around what suits them the most, makes them the happiest and what even make those they care for happy.

You and Mel seem to have found a heavenly platform. So did my wife and I, or Outwest/Davewe/Marcos and their respective ladies. We both seem to recognise that, at least in this corner of a forum, we might represent a minority group in a larger, or at least more vocal, sample of frustrated, confused or outright deranged minds.

What are we really talking about then?