STEVE HOCA joined MGTOW - New videos

[Adama]

I'm pretty sure I have read elsewhere you recommending that men wait until retirement age before going overseas to find a wife.

Although waiting til retirement age seems excessive, it may not be the worst idea to wait a little longer, make a little more money, save up a small fortune and be sure to have your ducks in a row financially before making the great move.

Personally, I am an impatient man. I have some degree of patience, naturally, but not enough to wait many years before moving abroad. I admire those that too. Let's say a man begins his career early, works his way up, saves money and avoids overspending, relationships, expensive hobbies, for fifteen years. By the time he's 35-40, he starts seriously looking for a much younger wife abroad. He moves to her country, where his savings allow him to purchase vast lands and a lot of property, set up a business, a loaning agency, farm lands, a store... something that more or less runs itself, allowing him to retire early and focus on love and a family life at last.

With other men retiring in their sixties, a thrifty single man could easily retire in his late thirties to early forties if he has a somewhat good career and plays his cards right. Then he could live a comfortable and enjoyable life and do all the things other men did earlier in life.

I've always been intrigued by the dynamic between an older, experienced man and a far younger girl in a relationship. A man who's already had his adventures behind him, his wild days, and who is a source of calm and stability, complimented by his younger partner's youthful energy. Had I not married at 22, perhaps I would have waited another decade or more until getting hitched. I would have less years as a married man that way, and less years abroad, but I can see the upside of waiting. If that was the point Yohan tried to make, then I can respect him for that.

Of course waiting for retirement age, and not early retirement as I think was implied, would be preposterous..

That's fantasy. That would take the patience of Job. That life will not be available to most men in any way. Both with the ability to earn and save enough money, and the willingness to wait for decades. Is this supposed to be a joke?

Do you know how much fire and passion a man has in his 20s and early 30s? This is when he is supposed to have his family. He is not supposed to burn through that time without a woman, while he maintains the hope that some day he will finally get to touch a woman, after he turns 45, or 55. Are we being serious here? I mean seriously?

And this is the advice the MGTOW have for men? That they wait until half of their fire and light has already burned out before they go searching for contact with women. Because that is safe.

Do you see the problem here?

[Adama]

How healthy is that sperm going to be also? Younger sperm is better.

[Ghost]

.

[MarcosZeitola]

That's fantasy. That would take the patience of Job. That life will not be available to most men in any way. Both with the ability to earn and save enough money, and the willingness to wait for decades. Is this supposed to be a joke?

A fantasy, it might very well be. But as I said, I can understand the appeal. Back in the old days, in more traditional societies, there would often be a significant age difference between a man and his wife. You still see this in many cultures, especially Islamic culture. A man at the age he first marries would be around thirty, a woman would be in her early twenties. I have every reason to believe this dynamic works for some couples. With a greater age gap, I could see it working just as well.

Do you know how much fire and passion a man has in his 20s and early 30s? This is when he is supposed to have his family. He is not supposed to burn through that time without a woman, while he maintains the hope that some day he will finally get to touch a woman, after he turns 45, or 55. Are we being serious here? I mean seriously?

The man in my example would put his passion in his work, and would of course maintain passionate affairs with women. He may have some friends-with-benefits situations going for him. He will however avoid love and commitment until he has saved up the means to support both himself and a family, and focus on raising his family more. Fifty-five would be a bit late, even forty five. He could do this in his thirties. But even at fifty, a healthy man could still do virtually all the things a young man can. Especially in this day and age where a young man being fit and healthy is FAR from the default.

And this is the advice the MGTOW have for men? That they wait until half of their fire and light has already burned out before they go searching for contact with women. Because that is safe.

The MGTOW's advice is to never look for women. To just let the light go out, and die alone. I'm trying to look at things from the perspective of a man who focuses on his career first. It's not something I could pull off myself, but it's not impossible for some men to do things this way. They would still have contact with women; you seem to have in mind a man who is the "wait before marriage" type of guy; the man in my example is a man who enjoys life, but postpones marriage and family-raising until he is somewhat older, then settling down with a younger wife. Preferably he would settle down with her abroad, in her country, as in other cultures people are far more open to large age gaps and overall, women are far more loyal in love.

Having saved money for so long, the "MGTOW" guy has enough money to last a lifetime. I suggest he invests it in such a way he can get a passive and steady flow of income from it, and in a country with far lower prices of resources, it will be plenty to support the man, his wife and their family. He would not have had this advantage if he married very young, and would have required to work much harder. I myself, having married at a young age, have to work very hard. I do so gladly, but as I said, I understand the motivation of some men to wait and do things a bit differently. I never called this type of man "MGTOW", as their end-game is far different.

Do you see the problem here?

I do, trust me. But I think it's not as far-fetched as you think it is. I've seen too many men successfully pull it off for me to doubt it's possibility.

How healthy is that sperm going to be also? Younger sperm is better.

The theory of sperm being of a far lower quality when a man is older, is a theory that has SOME degree of validity. However, it is advanced maternal age and aging of the eggs that has a far bigger impact on a child's health. I believe the "science" behind the claim sperm ages badly, is mostly just bias designed to discourage men from raising a family. A healthy older man can father very healthy offspring, provided he does so with a much younger partner. Don't buy into everything you hear or read; a good portion of it is thinly disguised feminist propaganda.

[The_Adventurer]

That's fantasy. That would take the patience of Job. That life will not be available to most men in any way. Both with the ability to earn and save enough money, and the willingness to wait for decades. Is this supposed to be a joke?

Do you know how much fire and passion a man has in his 20s and early 30s? This is when he is supposed to have his family. He is not supposed to burn through that time without a woman, while he maintains the hope that some day he will finally get to touch a woman, after he turns 45, or 55. Are we being serious here? I mean seriously?

And this is the advice the MGTOW have for men? That they wait until half of their fire and light has already burned out before they go searching for contact with women. Because that is safe.

Do you see the problem here?

Men might just have to get used to it. Every generation people are marrying later and later. Millions of Japanese have given up all together. Millions of Chinese are delaying marriage until their thirties and even forties so they have can have some money, a house and a car. Raising a traditional family has become financially unfeasible for the majority of young people in this day and age.

On the other hand, Napoleon Hill puts it the other way around. He says most people get rich in their forties and fifties because after they have burned out that fire chasing women, they can focus on work and create pursuits. While he wrote that decades ago, if you think about it, the exceptions to that rule today are all internet and tech giants.

[Adama]

That is exactly what feminism is. It is a massive distraction meant to keep women busy with "other interests" until it is far too late to have children. They have to get all kinds of treatments to do what 20 year old women can do without assistance. And people think that putting all your efforts into "other interests" is in the best interest of young people. I don't think that people can get anymore blind than that.

As far as maintaining Friends-with-benefits, that just makes me wonder why you'd bring that up, when if those men could get those FwBs, they would not have had a problem with women.

Men are supposed to marry early. Then all their efforts can be channeled into other areas as they reach their 40s. Do you remember the hierarchy of Maslow? First you must have your personal needs met. If you do not get your personal needs met in the proper sequence it will result in stunted growth.

That 40 year old man will probably be clueless when it comes to women, because all his adult life, his focus was on other interests.

[MarcosZeitola]

That is exactly what feminism is. It is a massive distraction meant to keep women busy with "other interests" until it is far too late to have children. They have to get all kinds of treatments to do what 20 year old women can do without assistance. And people think that putting all your efforts into "other interests" is in the best interest of young people. I don't think that people can get anymore blind than that.

As far as maintaining Friends-with-benefits, that just makes me wonder why you'd bring that up, when if those men could get those FwBs, they would not have had a problem with women.

Men are supposed to marry early. Then all their efforts can be channeled into other areas as they reach their 40s. Do you remember the hierarchy of Maslow? First you must have your personal needs met. If you do not get your personal needs met in the proper sequence it will result in stunted growth.

That 40 year old man will probably be clueless when it comes to women, because all his adult life, his focus was on other interests.

I don't disagree with you here, don't get me wrong. I am just saying: for men, biologically speaking, no such limitations exist. All a man needs, regardless of his age, is a healthy young woman. A fresh, fertile womb, and a willing pair of hips, and he's good to go. An older woman, no matter how young her partner, will have serious trouble conceiving, if they are even still able to.

As long as there are poor women, in poor countries where your dollar or euro is worth a lot more then it is at home, this means that as a man you do not have the type of pressure a woman faces. To me, this would be a reassuring thought. An empowering fact to keep in the back of your mind; as long as your heart beats and you have blood pumping through your veins, as a man, you can still do your biological duty.

For me it's a non-issue; I married young, I am already a father. But I can get into the mindset of this hypothetical forty year old man. He's not as far off or hopeless as you think he is. He's not necessarily as inexperienced or clueless as you assume him to be, either.

This thought process, where you deem 40+ to be "too old" even for men, is a mentality we as Happier Abroaders ought to rid ourselves of. It may be too old in the West, where you are expected to end up with a partner close to your own age, where single women past the age of 35 aren't considered miserable spinsters yet, but in other countries it's anything but too old. Hell, I've seen legions of profiles on dating sites of young 20-something foreign women who wrote 40+ in their age preferences for a partner.

[Adama]

That is exactly what feminism is. It is a massive distraction meant to keep women busy with "other interests" until it is far too late to have children. They have to get all kinds of treatments to do what 20 year old women can do without assistance. And people think that putting all your efforts into "other interests" is in the best interest of young people. I don't think that people can get anymore blind than that.

As far as maintaining Friends-with-benefits, that just makes me wonder why you'd bring that up, when if those men could get those FwBs, they would not have had a problem with women.

Men are supposed to marry early. Then all their efforts can be channeled into other areas as they reach their 40s. Do you remember the hierarchy of Maslow? First you must have your personal needs met. If you do not get your personal needs met in the proper sequence it will result in stunted growth.

That 40 year old man will probably be clueless when it comes to women, because all his adult life, his focus was on other interests.

I don't disagree with you here, don't get me wrong. I am just saying: for men, biologically speaking, no such limitations exist. All a man needs, regardless of his age, is a healthy young woman. A fresh, fertile womb, and a willing pair of hips, and he's good to go. An older woman, no matter how young her partner, will have serious trouble conceiving, if they are even still able to.

As long as there are poor women, in poor countries where your dollar or euro is worth a lot more then it is at home, this means that as a man you do not have the type of pressure a woman faces. To me, this would be a reassuring thought. An empowering fact to keep in the back of your mind; as long as your heart beats and you have blood pumping through your veins, as a man, you can still do your biological duty.

For me it's a non-issue; I married young, I am already a father. But I can get into the mindset of this hypothetical forty year old man. He's not as far off or hopeless as you think he is. He's not necessarily as inexperienced or clueless as you assume him to be, either.

This thought process, where you deem 40+ to be "too old" even for men, is a mentality we as Happier Abroaders ought to rid ourselves of. It may be too old in the West, where you are expected to end up with a partner close to your own age, where single women past the age of 35 aren't considered miserable spinsters yet, but in other countries it's anything but too old. Hell, I've seen legions of profiles on dating sites of young 20-something foreign women who wrote 40+ in their age preferences for a partner.

I think you're missing my point. The point isnt just that the man will be older. It is that he will have missed out on love for most of his life up to that point, which are decades long (which is a long time of years that he will have to endure loneliness). That is unreasonable to expect a person to delay for that long that far after sexual maturity. Who is realistically that patient to wait for love?

This is where you are unintentionally sticking up for the mangina philosophy of MGTOW. They advocate masturbating to porn, visiting prostitutes (which enriches whores to the tune of millions of dollars per woman per year, while impoverishing men possibly more than if they just had a girlfriend and paid for everything), video games, anything EXCEPT going after real women, because that is way too dangerous. They are telling men to abstain from sex or go with hookers until they are over 45 years old and they get to retire. That only separates men from women. That doesnt help men with women. That stunts men by telling them to stay away from women as long as possible, ignore your loneliness for years, and forget about learning critical social skills you'll need with women anywhere in the world.

[pete98146]

What can you say about guys like Steve Hoca? I'm sure he's a good guy and if I met him, I'd probably like him to some extent. But I guess I'm too much of a "glass half full" type of guy. I've gone thru a divorce and had some difficult time with women. I've bitched and moaned about American women and yes, I agree with much of what Steve preaches but unlike many guys like Steve, I stand up and draw the line in the sand and shout out at the top of my lungs, "I'll find a way to succeed with women."

Color me crazy but life is too short not to have a women by my side. I refused to give up. Really failure was not an option for me. I'm a firm believer that if you want something bad enough you'll find a way to get it. So screw MGTOW cause it ain't for me This is why I can't stand to watch more than 5 minutes of a Steve Hoca vid.

Sorry if I offend anybody on this forum who has similar views as does Steve. But there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands of women in the world looking for good guys. If you focus your attention from complaining to actively looking for a foreign lady, there is a good chance you'll succeed! I have friends that have succeeded, I've managed to pull it off with a girl that is 19 years younger than me and frankly is way out of my league but yet she still hangs around me and is happy. If I/we can do it, so can you!

[Yohan]

Are you not the man who advocates that men wait until retirement before they move overseas? Are you not the man who recommends that a man live overseas first before find a wife?

I left Europe for Asia in 1972 for Malaysia, finally in 1976 for Japan - for always, never came back again, living in Japan since almost 4 decades.
I am surely NOT the man who advocates to wait until retirement for moving out of the pro-feminist zone. etc.etc.

I'm pretty sure I have read elsewhere you recommending that men wait until retirement age before going overseas to find a wife.

Maybe you could show me where I said 'elsewhere' that Western men should wait up to full retirement (in Europe around 65 to 67 old) before going overseas to find a wife?

Link please!

I say it again I am living since almost 4 decades away from Europe in Asia, I often said, I am very supportive to international and interracial marriage.

I advice however strongly against doing stupid things out of fantasy dreams which turn out to be unrealistic.

To be a tourist for a few weeks with sexy girls or to prepare for long stay in a foreign country is not the same.

I met not so few men in my life in Asia heading home to where they came from. Many of them totally out of money, often cheated by foreign women, some of them seriously sick or after accidents unable to pay for medical help. I also have experience about men who refused to go home and while facing immediate deportation they preferred to drink a bottle of whisky and jumped out of an upper-floor window in a high rise condominium building.

To wait a few years and to work and save - or as I said in my previous comment - to share 50/50 between the own country and the foreign country - quite popular among Northern Europeans - are not a wrong advice.

About foreign women, this is not a priority - if you settle down overseas in a developing country and can offer good long-term conditions many females will show up by themselves.

[Teal Lantern]

I am not the only one who takes the issue to run out of money seriously. Here in Asia you will find many Scandinavians, Russians and men of other nationalities, who prefer while being still young, to work a few months in their own countries every year to have an escape route ready all the time.

Like a mini retirement season each year rather than hoping to retire near the end of life.

And yes, women are not the priority. The priority after relocation is about visa/working permits, jobs/income, housing and your own health and financial stability.

It depends on the individual, on your circumstances, what you can do and what not. I do not advocate the same for everybody.

Buried in the middle of the "mating and dating dilemma" video, the point of having some portable skills is brought up.

[Winston]

Steve Hoca has done a lot of new interviews. See his new videos here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0LvBT ... NgY32DekqA

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Color me crazy but life is too short not to have a women by my side. I refused to give up. Really failure was not an option for me. I'm a firm believer that if you want something bad enough you'll find a way to get it. So screw MGTOW cause it ain't for me

Good luck with trying to digest that Blue Pill you've taken!

[El_Caudillo]

What happened to Steve Hoca in the Philippines, does he have a video about it? I wouldn't recommend going abroad for everyone, but because he seems energetic and intelligent I think he should. he's already cynical enough to fit in with other expats. A lot of what he says makes sense even if it does seem a little extreme. It's so surprising how womem change in openess from one location to the next, but men pretty much remain the same... well seems that way ro me. Steve is going to leave mgtow, whats next?

[El_Caudillo]

Im getting steve neese and steve hoca mixed up. Steve hoca needs to get happier abroad, badly.