Could Covid-19 be a scam or hoax? Does anyone know anyone who has it?

[WorldTraveler]

This video was taken down after I first posted, but it's back. Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

[Moretorque]

This video was taken down after I first posted, but it's back. Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

The problem is they are calling everything COVID, my friend's girlfriend's mother was just diagnosed with it and I personally think it is cover for the economies coming down because we are at the end of this debt cycle even if some of it is real...

[WorldTraveler]

This video was taken down after I first posted, but it's back. Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

The problem is they are calling everything COVID, my friends girl freinds mother was just diagnosed with it and I personally think it is cover for the economies coming down becausw we are at the end of this debt cycle even if some of it is real...

So somebody in Serbia gave this British citizen the Coronavirus to cover up the end of the debt cycle. Covid-19 is not needed to cover the debt cycle. This is nothing new, I've been reading books about this for 20 years.

[HappyGuy]

Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

Everyone who thinks the pandemic is real watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QNMy51iw2M

[WorldTraveler]

Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

Everyone who thinks the pandemic is real watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QNMy51iw2M

Seems pretty stupid. Who is stealing my oxygen? Can you save us from whoever is doing this evil deed? This to me kind of falls into the category that we are living in a Matrix.

[HappyGuy]

Seems pretty stupid.

Dying in the hospital from a hoax seems pretty stupid.

[Winston]

Something you guys should keep in mind:

If the conspiracy crowd is wrong about COVID19 being a hoax, you can't just blame their paranoia or delusion or mistrust of government. If you think about it, that's largely the fault of the US government. You see, since the 1960's the US government has been spreading big lies and as such as lost the trust of the American people. We all know for example that the US government lied about the JFK assassination and that was the turning point in American trust in government. After that, the lies about the Vietnam War, in which 60,000 Americans died for nothing, and the RFK and MLK assassinations, further increased distrust in the US government.

Had the US government not lied about all those things in the 1960's then the conspiracy/truther movement would be much smaller in size than it is today. And there would be much less conspiracy theories about COVID19 too. So you gotta look at the big picture and understand the root cause of mistrust and skepticisim in the establishment and media today. So the US government has no one to blame but itself for so many Americans mistrusting it and for the existence of the conspiracy/truther subculture in America. You can't deny this fact. Had the US government not lied so much since the 1960s, more people today would trust it and conspiracy theories would be much less today. So you gotta acknowledge that they are to blame too, not just the delusions of "conspiracy theorists".

We all know that parable of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". After the boy raised the false alarm about wolves attacking the sheep flock two times, the village folks no longer trusted him. By the time real wolves were attacking the sheep, and he sounded the alarm, no one believed him. Well the same lesson applies to the US government. When they lie so much and lose the trust of the American people, that is not the fault of the American people, that is the fault of the US government. We all know that. It's very simple. So you guys should pin the blame at the government that has lied so often in the past and present. Not as delusional "conspiracy theorists".

Do you guys get my drift? I just wanted to remind you guys to see the big picture and pin the blame where it's justly due. Regardless of whether COVID19 is real or not, you guys should acknowledge this and take it into account at least.

[Winston]

This video was taken down after I first posted, but it's back. Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

The problem is they are calling everything COVID, my friend's girlfriend's mother was just diagnosed with it and I personally think it is cover for the economies coming down because we are at the end of this debt cycle even if some of it is real...

Don't they have a specific scientific test to distinguish COVID19 from a normal flu? American doctors and scientists aren't that stupid. Surely they can tell the difference right? A nation that can build bridges and iphones surely can't be that dumb right?

[Winston]

@WorldTraveler told me that even if you get COVID19 and recover from it, studies say you are still damaged long term because you won't be able to function fully again without health problems. Is that true? Any specific info on that?

Also, what if you have COVID19 and don't even know you have it? Supposedly some people are asymptomatic and don't even know they have it. If that's so, then would they have long term health damage too?

Btw even if COVID19 is real, that doesn't mean it's an accident of nature from a bat. There's no proof it was an accident. It could still have been engineered somehow by someone, from either China or the deep state right?

[Winston]

@flowerthief00
Those are valid points. However consider that:

1. Dr. Andrew Kaufman is a microbiologist and explained in his video presentation why Covid19 was never isolated or cultured. But of course his video was censored and banned. Did you see it before it was taken down? It was highly scientific. He was qualified in virology. Not a layman.

When I did a little digging on this person it was unclear whether even has the microbiology credentials claimed. He seems to have psychiatrist credentials. (Here is a Quora thread of members trying to figure out who this guy is)

Now, his ideas are interesting and I don't have the technical knowledge to determine on my own whether he is right or wrong, but given that plenty of other people (whose credentials are not in dispute) disagree with him, I would turn the question back on you. Why choose to believe this one maverick over all the other expert voices telling you he is dead wrong?

4. Since the 1960s we've all known that the government lies repeatedly about many things and has commit many crimes, both domestically and overseas. So isn't a government that lies and has committed conspiracies many times since the 1960s and prior too, capable of anything? How would u know what to believe anymore? How do you know when government is lying and when its telling the truth? Do you have a barometer to test when its lying and when its not? Or is government God and therefore always right and honest, even when it lies and covers up stuff? Remember the US government has been lying about the JFK assassination to this day even. Everyone knows that. And more people realize that they lied about 9/11 too. So if they have no credibility and have been proven to lie then how do you know what to believe?

If your friend lied to you, you would not believe him or her anymore. His or her credibility would be gone. So why is it that when government lies, people still believe everything it says? Isn't that odd? Isn't that proof of mind control?

I have not said, nor has any skeptic I've ever heard said that the government never lies. Neither do I assume them to always be lying. The government is not comprised of a single person.

Ideally we try to reach conclusions based on the evidence for and against a given claim. But since time is finite and we can't afford to study extensively every wild theory conspiracists throw at us on our own, we do take shortcuts such as trusting experts in specific fields. Sorry but I don't have time to be an expert on everything.

9/11 conspiracists said, "those buildings couldn't have come down without help!" (controlled demolitions or what have you)
Engineers and others who know what they're talking about said, "um, yes they could." That was enough for me. I don't have time to become an expert on structural engineering so I took the shortcut of believing the experts who had already studied the matter and concluded that the conspiracy theory was full of crap.

And this has happened enough times that I take a skeptical stance by default whenever someone presents a new conspiracy theory, while leaving open the door a crack that it might turn out to be true if/when the evidence comes down hard enough for it. (as it did with MKUltra)

*Most* conspiracy theories are probably full of crap, as I find time and again that those concocting them are not the most credible of people, while their adherents (and sometimes the originators themselves) always seem to be trying to explain one conspiracy theory by referencing another. "Theory A is true because of Theory B" is not compelling when we were never convinced of Theory B.

@flowerthief00
Well you should know that "experts" cannot say whatever they want. They have to agree with the consensus or else their careers are over and they are ostracized. We all know that. Come on. So they have to agree with global warming too. They can't debate it. If they do, their careers are over. Professionals cannot say whatever they want without consequence. If you don't tow the party line, you're out. That's the rule in this world. We all know that.

It's true that evidence determines whether a conspiracy is true or not. But there are conspiracies with lots of evidence and proof that are considered proven by the standards of logic, but are still denied by the government. What do you do about that? For example, JFK assassination, 9/11, Princess Diana murder, etc?

Btw, you are definitely wrong about 9/11 and seem to be obviously uneducated and misinformed on it. You obviously did zero research on that topic. You act as though you read nothing on the subject and didn't see even one good documentary about it. Actually the inside job conspiracy was proven in 2006. Dr. Steven Jones found thermite in the WTC dust and published a paper on it in the Open Physics Journal. It's available online and has been since 2006. Other scientists have published similar papers too.

I've posted enough proof for the 9/11 conspiracy since 2008 too. Where have you been? Living under a rock? lol. Here's our 9/11 thread so you can see:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13601

Also see my Conspiracy Trilogy Report where I summarize many PROOFS that 9/11 must have been an inside job and summarize each proof.

http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/Conspiracies.htm

So you saw one engineer say that it was possible for the twin towers and building 7 to collapse at free fall speed from office fires alone and pulverize into almost 100 percent fine dust, and that settles it for you? LOL. You're not serious are you? LOL. Are you joking? Is your critical thinking skills that bad? LOL

What about the 1500 architects and engineers at AE911Truth.org? If you saw even one of their presentations, you would not say this today. In fact, they produced a high quality documentary in which 50 structural engineers and architects (some with decades of experience and own their own firm) say that the official story of how the towers collapsed on 9/11 is 100 percent IMPOSSIBLE according to their professional expertise. See the documentary film here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stOQ5Vl9d0k

It's a total CLINCHER. Watch it and I guarantee you will have no doubt that that was an inside job for sure. I'll bet you $200 on it. But watch it with an open unbiased mindset, and watch all of it. Listen to every word from every expert. This is not "conspiracy theory", it's FACT, based on many qualified professional opinions and scientific laws and hard proof. Checkmate. Game over. This was settled back in 2008. Why are you still debating this? Where have you been? Living under a rock? lol

Actually Richard Gage, the founder of AE911Truth.org said that most structural engineers when they examine the evidence on 9/11 come to the conclusion that the official story cannot be true. So you've lost the argument from experts case for sure @flowerthief00.

Also see the 5 hour documentary "9/11 The New Pearl Harbor" by Italian director Massimo Muzzoco. It's very comprehensive and lays out on the table every argument of every aspect of the 9/11 debate from both sides, the conspiracy side and the Popular Mechanics defense of the official story side. Once you see every argument laid out in the open, you inevitably come to the conclusions that it had to be an inside job. 100 percent had to be. No doubt in your mind. Watch it and see. Watch the whole 5 hour documentary and you will admit the obvious. I'll bet you $200 on it, if you watch all of it with an objective unbiased mindset. Look for it on YouTube or whatever. That one ends the debate for sure. This debate was over long ago. Where have you been?

Since you are new to this subject please visit this professional website with many credible experts:

https://www.ae911truth.org
https://www.ae911truth.org/evidence/evidence-overview

Two questions for you to think about:

1. Suppose I wanted to bring down your house at free fall speed into its own footprint. Could I accomplish that by lighting your roof on fire? Would the collapse be instantaneous and at FREE FALL speed?
Note: If you watch videos of the collapse of the WTC and Building 7 you will see that all three towers fell at very close to free fall velocity.

2. Suppose I wanted your house to be pulverized into 100 percent fine dust, or 99 percent at least. Could I accomplish that by setting your roof on fire? Would that pulverize your home into fine dust completely?
Note: Watch clips with firefighters who were at Ground Zero after 9/11, they all say that the whole WTC pulverized into fine dust and the biggest piece they found was a fragment of a phone pad.

Can you name even one skyscraper in history that completely collapsed from fire, let alone at free fall speed? Go and try. You can't. What does that tell you?

Think about those questions please. Meditate on them. Eventually you will see how absurd the official story is. Remember too that a third tower, Building 7, also collapsed at free fall even though it wasn't hit by a plane, and it was announced 20 min in advance too on the BBC.

You obviously didn't see the documentary "9/11 Mysteries" either, narrated by Sophia Smallstorm. Or "Zero: An Investigation into 9/11". Those are also excellent documentaries that will leave no doubt in your mind once you see all the evidence. Please look those up on YouTube too, if they are still there. They were made years ago and prove the inside job theory too. All you gotta do is look at the evidence on both sides, then there will be no doubt in your mind as long as you are honest and objective and not emotional about it or in denial like @DiscoPro_Joe was. Guaranteed 100 percent.

@WorldTraveler since you are still uninformed about 9/11 too, the above goes for you too. Please answer the two questions above too. I dare you to try to answer them. Once you do, you will be backed into a corner for sure.

[Moretorque]

This video was taken down after I first posted, but it's back. Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

The problem is they are calling everything COVID, my friend's girlfriend's mother was just diagnosed with it and I personally think it is cover for the economies coming down because we are at the end of this debt cycle even if some of it is real...

Don't they have a specific scientific test to distinguish COVID19 from a normal flu? American doctors and scientists aren't that stupid. Surely they can tell the difference right? A nation that can build bridges and iphones surely can't be that dumb right?

From what I have heard and read the tests are pretty much all faulty, the intelligent Dr.'s know what is going on but at 39 thou per diagnosis and also I am sure there are very special perks for select staff in the hospitals and medical fields....

Winston you are watching the communist take over of the world at hand making a huge move. You know that... They want to get a big war going and America has been slated IMO to lose. China is the world manufacturing hub now and most Americans are so dumb down they do not realize they don't have the intelligence to wipe their own a$$.....

[Moretorque]

This video was taken down after I first posted, but it's back. Everyone who thinks it's a hoax. Please watch this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvyW6KMHB74

The problem is they are calling everything COVID, my friends girl freinds mother was just diagnosed with it and I personally think it is cover for the economies coming down becausw we are at the end of this debt cycle even if some of it is real...

So somebody in Serbia gave this British citizen the Coronavirus to cover up the end of the debt cycle. Covid-19 is not needed to cover the debt cycle. This is nothing new, I've been reading books about this for 20 years.

It is to most people , most Americans are so stupid they don't know how they make their daily bread.... The REPO cycle started in SEP of 2019.... Same time about they were doing pandemic drills.... They don't have to fool everybody but most everybody....

Just look what the elite have done to Britain since the introduction of the EU, who benefits from that ? The banks do IMO....

[flowerthief00]

So you saw one engineer say that it was possible for the twin towers and building 7 to collapse at free fall speed from office fires alone and pulverize into almost 100 percent fine dust, and that settles it for you? LOL. You're not serious are you? LOL. Are you joking? Is your critical thinking skills that bad? LOL

That is not the opinion of one engineer but the widely accepted view of most engineers who have looked at the issue.

Good grief, @Winston, did you not read my last post before you started to bombard me with "read this, watch that"? I am no expert in engineering and I assume neither are you.

I could try to read the reports of the investigations that have been done of 9/11, the findings of the various organizations that studied the evidence, the many peer-reviewed analysis that have been published.... I could read the objections from the truther side--AE911Truth.org and their experts (still far fewer in number than the conventional side), all the links and videos they love to share, etc. Then the objections to the objections from the conventional side again. Then the objections to the objections to the objections.

By this point it is beyond the ability of a layman like myself to judge what is correct. Are you telling me that you scrutinized everything published by both sides and concluded based on your expertise of structural engineering that Richard Gage and his crew were the ones in the right? I seriously doubt it. What are your engineering credentials exactly?

To go with the matter of building 7's free fall, here's an excerpt of what NIST published on the subject. (presumably in response to AE911Truth.org)

--------------------------------------------------------

11. In a video, it appears that WTC 7 is descending in free fall, something that would not occur in the structural collapse that you describe. How can NIST ignore basic laws of physics?

In the draft WTC 7 report (released Aug. 21, 2008; available at http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/ ... eports.cfm), NIST stated that the north face of the building descended 18 stories (the portion of the collapse visible in the video) in 5.4 seconds, based on video analysis of the building collapse. This time period is 40 percent longer than the 3.9 seconds this process would have taken if the north face of the building had descended solely under free fall conditions. During the public comment period on the draft report, NIST was asked to confirm this time difference and define the reasons for it in greater detail.

To further clarify the descent of the north face, NIST recorded the downward displacement of a point near the center of the roofline from first movement until the north face was no longer visible in the video. Numerical analyses were conducted to calculate the velocity and acceleration of the roofline point from the time-dependent displacement data. The instant at which vertical motion of the roofline first occurred was determined by tracking the numerical value of the brightness of a pixel (a single element in the video image) at the roofline. This pixel became brighter as the roofline began to descend because the color of the pixel started to change from that of the building façade to the lighter color of the sky.

The approach taken by NIST is summarized in NIST NCSTAR Report 1A, Section 3.6, and detailed in NIST NCSTAR Report 1-9, Section 12.5.3.

The analyses of the video (both the estimation of the instant the roofline began to descend and the calculated velocity and acceleration of a point on the roofline) revealed three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse:

Stage 1 (0 to 1.75 seconds): acceleration less than that of gravity (i.e., slower than free fall).
Stage 2 (1.75 to 4.0 seconds): gravitational acceleration (free fall)
Stage 3 (4.0 to 5.4 seconds): decreased acceleration, again less than that of gravity

This analysis showed that the 40 percent longer descent time—compared to the 3.9 second free fall time—was due primarily to Stage 1, which corresponded to the buckling of the exterior columns in the lower stories of the north face. During Stage 2, the north face descended essentially in free fall, indicating negligible support from the structure below. This is consistent with the structural analysis model, which showed the exterior columns buckling and losing their capacity to support the loads from the structure above. In Stage 3, the acceleration decreased as the upper portion of the north face encountered increased resistance from the collapsed structure and the debris pile below.

--------------------------------------------------------

Did you understand all of that?

I call bullshit if you say you did. Engineers can grok this stuff but not us.

What can a layman do to makes sense of things when the experts disagree? Only two things. Either he can become an expert himself (impractical for most people). Or he can ask the simple question, "Who is more credible?"

And there's the crux of it all. We are both taking this logical shortcut.
I have a definite opinion on who is more credible, but you have a different opinion.

You have given as the reason for why you dismiss the experts on the conventional side that experts cannot say what they want without losing their careers. For some individuals in some circumstances, sure. I can believe that there are some people out there who would lie to protect their careers.

But is the near-entire scientific and engineering establishment lying to us? Well now, that is a conspiracy theory of its own!

So now at last we have come to the reason why you entertain this and other conspiracy theories. Your belief in this and other conspiracy hinges on another, grander, even less plausible conspiracy theory--the theory that huge swaths of people are willfully lying. Because everyone from the government down to independent researchers to engineering firms down to the editors of scientific journals can now be dismissed, the way is clear to run with alternate theories no matter how fringe.

And since you're unlikely to convince me of this grander conspiracy theory that everyone is lying, you're unlikely to convince me of any conspiracy theory that relies on it. It's what I've been saying all along. Conspiracy theories rely on other conspiracy theories to "prove" their "truth" in accumulating waves of implausibility.

[HappyGuy]

Apr 2, 2020
You Must Obey The Virus

[Winston]

Jeffrey Daugherty explains why the masks are more dangerous for your health than the Covid19 virus itself.