As minority or someone who looks like the locals do you get treated better for speaking English and being from the West?

[Archibault]

Hey guys,

I have noticed many gurus will say, learn the local language, and you'll do very well with the women. I have seen that this is primarily true if you are a specific type of person. For instance, a blond and blue-eyed guy learning Spanish who goes to Colombia or Mexico, suddenly you are the "man." "Wow, this gringo speaks Spanish; that's amazing!" "He takes the time to learn; congrats."

However, if you are a Hispanic-American or look like the locals(darker skinner guy), speaking Spanish does the opposite effect! For instance, I tried picking up these Costa Rican women, and as soon as I started speaking Spanish, I lost a lot of "high value" and respect. She said, "Oh, he's just like all the other guys!"

I also tried this specifically with women from Spain. Each time I only spoke English and said I was from America. I was given a lot of respect and "deferred" to. I remember telling this Spaniard, "This is where I want to eat at," and she, "Sure, let's go there." There's a sense that you are the "Boss." I imagine myself as a Brit in Ibiza and people trying to cater to him.

However, as soon as I started to speak in Spanish, this "Wow effect" went away. Suddenly, I became just like any other local guy, and the women played "Hard to get."

Rule of Thumb(so far, it has worked for me):
If you look like the locals or many people look like you=Focus on being different highlight the Americaness, Westerners, or the English language.
If you look different from the locals=Learn the local language, and it'll give you an extra boost. For instance, a lot of French women have been interested in me each time I spoke French.

[Tsar]

Interesting highlights. I guess I should try to communicate in English to girls while I am in Mexico if I feel like trying again for a Round 2.

[yick]

Hey guys,

I have noticed many gurus will say, learn the local language, and you'll do very well with the women. I have seen that this is primarily true if you are a specific type of person. For instance, a blond and blue-eyed guy learning Spanish who goes to Colombia or Mexico, suddenly you are the "man." "Wow, this gringo speaks Spanish; that's amazing!" "He takes the time to learn; congrats."

No they don't - most people don't a) give a shit and b) if they know English will think it is a good time to practice their English with you.

However, if you are a Hispanic-American or look like the locals(darker skinner guy), speaking Spanish does the opposite effect! For instance, I tried picking up these Costa Rican women, and as soon as I started speaking Spanish, I lost a lot of "high value" and respect. She said, "Oh, he's just like all the other guys!"

It was probably that your Spanish wasn't good enough, they know you're a foreigner when you speak Spanish. They know you aren't a local Costa Rican or Argentinian or whatever - if they had interest in you and they could speak English they would have switched or attempted to but they weren't interested so they just blew you off.

I also tried this specifically with women from Spain. Each time I only spoke English and said I was from America. I was given a lot of respect and "deferred" to.

Spanish people don't 'defer' to Americans. You saying that shows you have never been to Spain.

I remember telling this Spaniard, "This is where I want to eat at," and she, "Sure, let's go there." There's a sense that you are the "Boss." I imagine myself as a Brit in Ibiza and people trying to cater to him.

And do you think Spanish people defer to Brits in Ibiza? Their reputation is one up from a Taliban recruit

However, as soon as I started to speak in Spanish, this "Wow effect" went away. Suddenly, I became just like any other local guy, and the women played "Hard to get."

Obviously this is because your Spanish isn't good enough for them to flirt with you in Spanish and you might say 'oh my Spanish is amazing' but it isn't amazing enough - what would happen if a foreigner went to America and could speak functional English but had an accent like Borat and couldn't understand the subtleties of the humour? They wouldn't get far but they might think 'oh, I speak to them in their language and I get nowhere with the women, what a waste of time'.

Rule of Thumb(so far, it has worked for me):
If you look like the locals or many people look like you=Focus on being different highlight the Americaness, Westerners, or the English language.

Spanish people are 'westerners' and look and dress the same as them. There is no 'wow' factor in Spain for having blond hair and blue eyes. There used to be in countries like Colombia and Peru but not anymore, why? Because all the dickheads have been coming over on their cheap flights from America and Canada and ruining it for all the reasonable looking and acting men - they are tarred by association.

If you look different from the locals=Learn the local language, and it'll give you an extra boost. For instance, a lot of French women have been interested in me each time I spoke French.

Now you have just contradicted yourself - if you learn the language of the country you want to live in, you will have a better time of it, date more women and have an easier life. Spain has one of the lowest English speaking abilities in Europe so if you go around speaking English to random women (most who can't speak English or they haven't got the fluency to speak to you...) they're just going to brush you off.

I look Spanish and that is a country I do well in regards women - I get interest off the women there all the time.
There's a lot to dating in a country like Spain - the way you dress, the way you're built, the activities you participate in - there's a lot to it but being a monolingual English speaker is probably the most ineffective dating strategy you can get regards Spain.

[yick]

It's funny you never see PUA idiots in the middle of Madrid trying their lines in English to passing senoritas (and I think Spain has some of the best looking women of anywhere I have ever been to...) but PUA idiots are all over places like Prague, Kiev and Warsaw (where they do just as dismally...)

[Archibault]

@yick

You sound like you are from Spain, are you? Or are you from the UK and might be experiencing the "Wow, factor" Oh, this Anglo speaks Spanish, and now you think, "Look, learn Spanish, guys! It is going to be better!" It will be better for certain people but not others.

I'll be honest, man, like Winston said, "We are all going to have different experiences." Most of the Spaniards I've met and talked to have responded to me a certain way. Just because it isn't "Politically correct to say that" Doesn't mean it isn't real.

I think of Spaniards as people who live in "denialism" over everything. They say they do not discriminate against Latinos. Yet, many Latinos share their experiences and say they were treated much better in other European countries than in Spain.

This Latino from the USA says that he went to specific regions in Spain and talked Spanish and was mistreated; he was seen as a poor Latino. However, as soon as he started to speak the "King's Language." The Spaniards got off their "high horse" and started being deferential to him. I've also experienced this phenomenon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDE-DcqkCTU

About LATM, Roosh himself said that if you look a certain way go to countries like Brazil or Colombia, while if you are a darker-skinned guy, you were better off in countries like Poland, where you are unique. Not that you can't succeed in those places however. it'll be harder.

[yick]

@yick

You sound like you are from Spain, are you? Or are you from the UK and might be experiencing the "Wow, factor" Oh, this Anglo speaks Spanish, and now you think, "Look, learn Spanish, guys! It is going to be better!" It will be better for certain people but not others.

I know Spain quite well, let's put it that way, there is no 'wow' factor to being British in Spain, nor is there a 'wow' factor to being American or speaking English.

If you want to live in Spain and date local women then there are certain rules you're best off following - there was a Mexican poster called tapashito who gave some good advice about grooming on here and that applies to Spain as well (which was 'shop at Zara) get your grooming on point, know the language (because most Spanish women don't speak English...) don't wear those stupid baggy shorts and wear back to front baseball caps etc etc.

I'll be honest, man, like Winston said, "We are all going to have different experiences." Most of the Spaniards I've met and talked to have responded to me a certain way. Just because it isn't "Politically correct to say that" Doesn't mean it isn't real.

Yeah, but there are universal truths, you aren't going to go to Spain and slay it in English when most women aren't native speakers of the language and most are more comfortable speaking their own language.

It's not about 'political correctness' it is just untrue to say Spanish people have deference towards Americans, if anything it's the opposite. Most don't give a shit about Americans and a fair few of them are pretty anti-American but you will find that all over Europe - even in the UK and Ireland.

You have to get it out of your head that people have 'deference' towards you because you're American. It just simply isn't true.

I think of Spaniards as people who live in "denialism" over everything. They say they do not discriminate against Latinos. Yet, many Latinos share their experiences and say they were treated much better in other European countries than in Spain.

Yes there is discrimination and xenophobia against Latin Americans - which is another subject entirely. Saying that, all my male cousins managed to date and marry Spanish women.

This Latino from the USA says that he went to specific regions in Spain and talked Spanish and was mistreated; he was seen as a poor Latino. However, as soon as he started to speak the "King's Language." The Spaniards got off their "high horse" and started being deferential to him. I've also experienced this phenomenon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDE-DcqkCTU

Spanish people know if you're a Latin American or not, they know a guiri speaking Spanish - how they respond to it is what you bring to the table as a person, Spanish people aren't deferential to anyone because of your nationality and if that person on the video is using the word 'deferential' to describe how Spanish people treat him then he is a liar.

About LATM, Roosh himself said that if you look a certain way go to countries like Brazil or Colombia, while if you are a darker-skinned guy, you were better off in countries like Poland, where you are unique. Not that you can't succeed in those places however. it'll be harder.

Roosh shouldn't be used as any kind of guide at all.

[yick]

https://pages.ucsd.edu/~akleske/thescoop/t4.html

This goes back to the Spanish-American war of 1898 but there is no deferential love or respect for Americans in Spain and there isn't today or ever will be in the future.

[Archibault]

@yick

You sound like you are from Spain, are you? Or are you from the UK and might be experiencing the "Wow, factor" Oh, this Anglo speaks Spanish, and now you think, "Look, learn Spanish, guys! It is going to be better!" It will be better for certain people but not others.

I know Spain quite well, let's put it that way, there is no 'wow' factor to being British in Spain, nor is there a 'wow' factor to being American or speaking English.

If you want to live in Spain and date local women then there are certain rules you're best off following - there was a Mexican poster called tapashito who gave some good advice about grooming on here and that applies to Spain as well (which was 'shop at Zara) get your grooming on point, know the language (because most Spanish women don't speak English...) don't wear those stupid baggy shorts and wear back to front baseball caps etc etc.

I'll be honest, man, like Winston said, "We are all going to have different experiences." Most of the Spaniards I've met and talked to have responded to me a certain way. Just because it isn't "Politically correct to say that" Doesn't mean it isn't real.

Yeah, but there are universal truths, you aren't going to go to Spain and slay it in English when most women aren't native speakers of the language and most are more comfortable speaking their own language.

It's not about 'political correctness' it is just untrue to say Spanish people have deference towards Americans, if anything it's the opposite. Most don't give a shit about Americans and a fair few of them are pretty anti-American but you will find that all over Europe - even in the UK and Ireland.

You have to get it out of your head that people have 'deference' towards you because you're American. It just simply isn't true.

I think of Spaniards as people who live in "denialism" over everything. They say they do not discriminate against Latinos. Yet, many Latinos share their experiences and say they were treated much better in other European countries than in Spain.

Yes there is discrimination and xenophobia against Latin Americans - which is another subject entirely. Saying that, all my male cousins managed to date and marry Spanish women.

This Latino from the USA says that he went to specific regions in Spain and talked Spanish and was mistreated; he was seen as a poor Latino. However, as soon as he started to speak the "King's Language." The Spaniards got off their "high horse" and started being deferential to him. I've also experienced this phenomenon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDE-DcqkCTU

Spanish people know if you're a Latin American or not, they know a guiri speaking Spanish - how they respond to it is what you bring to the table as a person, Spanish people aren't deferential to anyone because of your nationality and if that person on the video is using the word 'deferential' to describe how Spanish people treat him then he is a liar.

About LATM, Roosh himself said that if you look a certain way go to countries like Brazil or Colombia, while if you are a darker-skinned guy, you were better off in countries like Poland, where you are unique. Not that you can't succeed in those places however. it'll be harder.

Roosh shouldn't be used as any kind of guide at all.

I read a few of your posts. You said you are a South American who went to Spain. I think you think too highly of Spain. Everyone has their preferences. However, you'll be surprised if you grew up in the USA; many Latinos don't like Spaniards. They prefer to identify with their native side. I remember some Chicanos saying they didn't find Spanish women attractive. Some people have told me they rather date French or Italian women.

As I'm telling you, man, many US Latino friends went to Spain and were treated better by English speakers. Had they only spoke Spanish as you advocate over here, they would have been treated much worst. They made it clear to the Spaniards they were bilingual and spoke English. English gives you a huge amount of respect if you are non-white in many countries, not only Spain. Hence, they were not confused with monolingual Spanish speakers in Latin America who seem to have a "lower value." It's unfortunate, as Sway said in his video, most of the Latinos in Spain that he saw were working low-paying jobs; hence some Spaniards thought less of them.

I'm advocating that if you are bilingual(especially if you are dark skinned or of Latino descent) talk in Spanglish with Spanish women, they will treat you better. I have seen friends do it better than if you are a monolingual Spanish speaker; Spanish women treat you worst. However, if you talk to them in English(especially if they know it), they show you way more respect.

[yick]

I read a few of your posts. You said you are a South American who went to Spain. I think you think too highly of Spain. Everyone has their preferences. However, you'll be surprised if you grew up in the USA; many Latinos don't like Spaniards. They prefer to identify with their native side. I remember some Chicanos saying they didn't find Spanish women attractive. Some people have told me they rather date French or Italian women.

There are Latinos who don't like Spain and there are Latinos who have recent Spanish heratige, there is racism in Spain against Latin Americans and there is xenophobia against Latin Americans also. That's all true. I don't care what some other man finds attractive, I find Spanish women attractive - the proof via my own lying eyes will have to be enough.

If others want to date French or Italian women then knock themselves out!

As I'm telling you, man, many US Latino friends went to Spain and were treated better by English speakers. Had they only spoke Spanish as you advocate over here, they would have been treated much worst.

How? When most of the country speaks Spanish? How can you be treated better except by a minority of people who are able to speak English with any fluency?

They made it clear to the Spaniards they were bilingual and spoke English. English gives you a huge amount of respect if you are non-white in many countries, not only Spain. Hence, they were not confused with monolingual Spanish speakers in Latin America who seem to have a "lower value." It's unfortunate, as Sway said in his video, most of the Latinos in Spain that he saw were working low-paying jobs; hence some Spaniards thought less of them.

A lot of Latin Americans do the crap jobs that Spanish people can't do (and a lot of doctors and dentists are also Latin American) - that doesn't stop Latin Americans being able to integrate into that society - Latin America has had HUGE influences on Spanish culture and society - from football, flamenco, art and literature, the cuisine, the language and though there are racist and xenophobic Spaniards, most aren't like that and this I do know. Like I said, most of my Latin American family who live there have married Spanish people and have had Spanish kids.

I'm advocating that if you are bilingual(especially if you are dark skinned or of Latino descent) talk in Spanglish with Spanish women, they will treat you better. I have seen friends do it better than if you are a monolingual Spanish speaker; Spanish women treat you worst. However, if you talk to them in English(especially if they know it), they show you way more respect.

Most Spanish women don't speak English - that anyone thinks they can go to Spain and pick up women without Spanish is in denial. Why don't you see PUA artists in Madrid trying their stupid lines on passing women? They don't get anywhere - they go to Prague instead! There's a good reason for it.

What Spanish people don't do is show reverence for Americans or defer to them because they are American - which was your original point. It isn't true.

[Yohan]

...I also tried this specifically with women from Spain. Each time I only spoke English and said I was from America. I was given a lot of respect and "deferred" to. I remember telling this Spaniard, "This is where I want to eat at," and she, "Sure, let's go there." There's a sense that you are the "Boss." I imagine myself as a Brit in Ibiza and people trying to cater to him.
....
However, as soon as I started to speak in Spanish, this "Wow effect" went away. Suddenly, I became just like any other local guy, and the women played "Hard to get."
-----

If you look like the locals or many people look like you=Focus on being different highlight the Americaness, Westerners, or the English language.

If you look different from the locals=Learn the local language, and it'll give you an extra boost. For instance, a lot of French women have been interested in me each time I spoke French.

This is a strange comment, and if true it will only work like that in a place which is known for tourists from abroad and locals who make a business out of them and are accustomed to foreign tourists, but otherwise?

I can only tell you, if you are somehow in contact with people from Russia from the Asian part in Siberia, without Russian language you will have a hard time to communicate with locals in those few cities.

Here in Japan, away from the tourist places in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto etc. area, most Japanese are not known to be good in foreign languages, and same is true with South Korea. If you are living in Japan or South Korea longterm, you have to learn some spoken and written Japanese and/or Korean, otherwise nobody will understand you and you will walk around as an illiterate as you can neither speak nor read.

[Archibault]

I read a few of your posts. You said you are a South American who went to Spain. I think you think too highly of Spain. Everyone has their preferences. However, you'll be surprised if you grew up in the USA; many Latinos don't like Spaniards. They prefer to identify with their native side. I remember some Chicanos saying they didn't find Spanish women attractive. Some people have told me they rather date French or Italian women.

There are Latinos who don't like Spain and there are Latinos who have recent Spanish heratige, there is racism in Spain against Latin Americans and there is xenophobia against Latin Americans also. That's all true. I don't care what some other man finds attractive, I find Spanish women attractive - the proof via my own lying eyes will have to be enough.

If others want to date French or Italian women then knock themselves out!

As I'm telling you, man, many US Latino friends went to Spain and were treated better by English speakers. Had they only spoke Spanish as you advocate over here, they would have been treated much worst.

How? When most of the country speaks Spanish? How can you be treated better except by a minority of people who are able to speak English with any fluency?

They made it clear to the Spaniards they were bilingual and spoke English. English gives you a huge amount of respect if you are non-white in many countries, not only Spain. Hence, they were not confused with monolingual Spanish speakers in Latin America who seem to have a "lower value." It's unfortunate, as Sway said in his video, most of the Latinos in Spain that he saw were working low-paying jobs; hence some Spaniards thought less of them.

A lot of Latin Americans do the crap jobs that Spanish people can't do (and a lot of doctors and dentists are also Latin American) - that doesn't stop Latin Americans being able to integrate into that society - Latin America has had HUGE influences on Spanish culture and society - from football, flamenco, art and literature, the cuisine, the language and though there are racist and xenophobic Spaniards, most aren't like that and this I do know. Like I said, most of my Latin American family who live there have married Spanish people and have had Spanish kids.

I'm advocating that if you are bilingual(especially if you are dark skinned or of Latino descent) talk in Spanglish with Spanish women, they will treat you better. I have seen friends do it better than if you are a monolingual Spanish speaker; Spanish women treat you worst. However, if you talk to them in English(especially if they know it), they show you way more respect.

Most Spanish women don't speak English - that anyone thinks they can go to Spain and pick up women without Spanish is in denial. Why don't you see PUA artists in Madrid trying their stupid lines on passing women? They don't get anywhere - they go to Prague instead! There's a good reason for it.

What Spanish people don't do is show reverence for Americans or defer to them because they are American - which was your original point. It isn't true.

Well, I think we are talking about two different groups then. I met this Spaniard woman from the Netherlands, and each time I spoke to her in English, she respected me way more. I met a similar Spaniard woman living abroad, and each time I spoke Spanish, she was "turned off" by it.

I don't agree with this point. I've met some Spaniards in the USA, and then I show them I was bilingual and I could quickly speak English; they immediately gave me respect even saw me as equal to a higher value than them. I met other Spaniards as well at other places, and it has been the same experience.

Meet any Spaniards outside of Spain talked to them in Spanish as a Latino and instead of them saying, "How cool, you are the same as me," They'll say, "Ok," The same with Costa Ricans. However, if you are an English-speaking Latino, they immediately, "Oh, you are from the USA; tell me about NYC and LA?" They also wanted to practice their English and stick to English only.

You have to understand that these societies are hierarchical. An English-speaking Latino is seen as higher in value. While a monolingual Spanish-speaking Latino is seen as "lower in value." A friend said Spaniards thought he worked at the store where he approached them.

[yick]

Well, I think we are talking about two different groups then. I met this Spaniard woman from the Netherlands, and each time I spoke to her in English, she respected me way more. I met a similar Spaniard woman living abroad, and each time I spoke Spanish, she was "turned off" by it.

I don't agree with this point. I've met some Spaniards in the USA, and then I show them I was bilingual and I could quickly speak English; they immediately gave me respect even saw me as equal to a higher value than them. I met other Spaniards as well at other places, and it has been the same experience.

Meet any Spaniards outside of Spain talked to them in Spanish as a Latino and instead of them saying, "How cool, you are the same as me," They'll say, "Ok," The same with Costa Ricans. However, if you are an English-speaking Latino, they immediately, "Oh, you are from the USA; tell me about NYC and LA?" They also wanted to practice their English and stick to English only.

You have to understand that these societies are hierarchical. An English-speaking Latino is seen as higher in value. While a monolingual Spanish-speaking Latino is seen as "lower in value." A friend said Spaniards thought he worked at the store where he approached them.

Right - so you never been to Spain?

You don't know many Spaniards? You met a Dutch woman of Spanish heritage an you met some Spanish people in America?

[Archibault]

...I also tried this specifically with women from Spain. Each time I only spoke English and said I was from America. I was given a lot of respect and "deferred" to. I remember telling this Spaniard, "This is where I want to eat at," and she, "Sure, let's go there." There's a sense that you are the "Boss." I imagine myself as a Brit in Ibiza and people trying to cater to him.
....
However, as soon as I started to speak in Spanish, this "Wow effect" went away. Suddenly, I became just like any other local guy, and the women played "Hard to get."
-----

If you look like the locals or many people look like you=Focus on being different highlight the Americaness, Westerners, or the English language.

If you look different from the locals=Learn the local language, and it'll give you an extra boost. For instance, a lot of French women have been interested in me each time I spoke French.

This is a strange comment, and if true it will only work like that in a place which is known for tourists from abroad and locals who make a business out of them and are accustomed to foreign tourists, but otherwise?

I can only tell you, if you are somehow in contact with people from Russia from the Asian part in Siberia, without Russian language you will have a hard time to communicate with locals in those few cities.

Here in Japan, away from the tourist places in Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto etc. area, most Japanese are not known to be good in foreign languages, and same is true with South Korea. If you are living in Japan or South Korea longterm, you have to learn some spoken and written Japanese and/or Korean, otherwise nobody will understand you and you will walk around as an illiterate as you can neither speak nor read.

I think we are talking about two different groups. I'm mostly talking about travellers. For instance, you are German, right? Many German travellers actually did not want to speak German with me. They would switch to English each time I would try to speak to them in German. Also, each time I would talk to them about "America thing" they actually found me way more interested and wanted to hang out.

[Archibault]

Well, I think we are talking about two different groups then. I met this Spaniard woman from the Netherlands, and each time I spoke to her in English, she respected me way more. I met a similar Spaniard woman living abroad, and each time I spoke Spanish, she was "turned off" by it.

I don't agree with this point. I've met some Spaniards in the USA, and then I show them I was bilingual and I could quickly speak English; they immediately gave me respect even saw me as equal to a higher value than them. I met other Spaniards as well at other places, and it has been the same experience.

Meet any Spaniards outside of Spain talked to them in Spanish as a Latino and instead of them saying, "How cool, you are the same as me," They'll say, "Ok," The same with Costa Ricans. However, if you are an English-speaking Latino, they immediately, "Oh, you are from the USA; tell me about NYC and LA?" They also wanted to practice their English and stick to English only.

You have to understand that these societies are hierarchical. An English-speaking Latino is seen as higher in value. While a monolingual Spanish-speaking Latino is seen as "lower in value." A friend said Spaniards thought he worked at the store where he approached them.

Right - so you never been to Spain?

You don't know many Spaniards? You met a Dutch woman of Spanish heritage an you met some Spanish people in America?

Look man, believe what you want. So far from my findings I can tell many Spanish women see Latinos as inferior. Hence, when Latinos speak English, specially to Spanish women who speak English themselves it raises their value and it increases their respect for them.

She was 100% Spaniard and have just moved to the Netherlands, two years ago.

[yick]

Look man, believe what you want. So far from my findings I can tell many Spanish women see Latinos as inferior.

NOT true, it's not true what you're saying - there are millions of Latin Americans in Spain, lots of them married to Spanish women

when Latinos speak English, specially to Spanish women who speak English themselves it raises their value and it increases their respect for them.

Not true again, they don't particulary respect people who speak English, why should they when most of them won't be able to understand a word they're saying.

Stop generalising about a place you have never been to.