Seattle Freeze - Can America get any more antisocial?

[NorthAmericanguy]

Just want to mention that I read an article talking about the Seattle freeze, describing how people in that region of the states are very closed and wary of meeting new people. the important thing is that that area has a maritime climate similar to britain.

I have a question here. I wonder which social environment is more anti-social; Britain or Washington State? I would be curious to know. Funnily enough, I should mention that some have said that they find americans more socially open than brits.

It always baffles me that whenever I try to meet people in public in Britain they all seem SO uncomfortable and unapproachable (especially young people). How come, even when I've been to various classes and voluntary work, people are always distant and want to go their own seperate ways and stick with their own little tight clique. Why are english people so bloody terrified of talking to strangers and including new people in their group?

It sucks that meeting new people is confined to pubs and clubs. It is a form of social exclusion. Why are people, especially young people terrified of having conversations? I absolutely detest it.

The fact that meeting people is limited to pubs and clubs, work, mutual introductions etc. is just too bloody restrictive. It enfuriates me when people say 'join clubs, classes and societies'. I've done that. People just want to have polite chit-chat (at most) then keep to themselves. They don't want to meet new people, be invited out, get to know you or even just bring you into their circle. They just go their own seperate ways. Even if you are persistent, it takes YEARS just to meet a handful of people because of this. I really don't get it. I'm sick to death of it.

Because meeting people is restricted to the channels just mentioned, if you're working at a job where people don't want anything to do with you socially, it's safe to say that you're buggered in some respects (unless you thrive in the bar/club scene). Because of the extreme cliqueyness, if you are in that situation, I that it's fair to call that a form of exclusion from from society. How many people reading this are familiar with such a predicament? You know, it feels like a bit of a dead end.

Question is, when will people stop being so f***ing paranoid and terrified of each other. When will neighbours start talking to each other and inviting each other over? What a depressing society! The weather over here really doesn't help, cloudy a lot of the time.

Just needed to vent that. Anyway, I've just gotten onto the CELTA course to train to be an EFL techer. so far it seems interesting and enjoyable. It looks like I made the right decision. Hoefully I won't need to waste time trying to befriend anti-social troglodytes.

Yea, I know what you mean. I'm from the states and so far every European from England I have ever met here in the states was rude, cold, and indifferent towards me.

One guy I worked with for over a year, and the others were random Brits who I struck up a conversation with after I heard their accent and tried to have a civil conversation with them just to be friendly.

On the other hand, I will say that Brits open up when the drinks get flowing, and that's really sad when you think about it, the fact that these people need to depend on alcohol to express human emotions.


As far as when will people go back to trusting each other, and being more open, well, I'm afraid that in any modern industrialized city it's just never going to happen. It's not going to happen because the environment prevents people from bonding with one another. People have to look for jobs, rent is sky high, young people move away to seek opportunity, young strangers move in looking for opportunity, old people are not respected so they don't get involved with young people, ect, ect....

If you visit small towns or rural areas they don't have any problems talking to one another...

[sushiman]

I'm a Seattle native.

It is indeed perhaps the most antisocial place on Earth.

The guy who posted earlier on his Seattle years got it right. My theory has always been the rain causes people to stay in their cave and develop into separate tribes. The tribes do not intermix. Plus very intellectual sorts that work endlessly cranked up on SBUX coffee writing software or whatever.

Over the years I've heard out of state visitors call it "a weird alien land where nobody talks to each other". People from more "folksy" states in the South really can end up hating it here.

Other details in case you ever decide to visit:

A lot a big husky lumberjack looking "women" and the worst fashion sense in the world.

Known for high single motherhood and really nasty domestic violence laws than falsely convict many dudes. A unfriendly state for males for sure.

[Truthville]

Actually sushiman, I'm from the Midwest and it's the same here. Being anti-social myself, for various reasons, I have found that most people create relationships(tribes) when they are young and are almost never let NEW people in.

The trouble is, when you based all your friendships exclusively on "years known," then you can "outgrow" them as I have. Familiarity breeds contempt.

I also have found that the friends I grew up with, still have a high school mentality as far as the things they like to do and their growth as people. In other words they are really now different than they way they were in High School/College despite being older and having adult responsibilities.

[E_Irizarry]

I think the problem is that theres really only two types of people who tend to approach and talk to strangers these days. The most common type, salespeople, have caused a great deal of damage to modern society's willingness to interact with others outside their social circles. How many times have you had someone randomly approach you in the street, shopping mall, etc. asking how your day has been, your interests, etc? Then a few minutes in comes the sales pitch... Some are so good at what they do you start to believe they are just actually nice, geniune people wanting to chat. I'm not sure about the rest of you guys but if that happens (rarely these days but when I was younger maybe 3-4 times when I honestly believed they were being sincere) I feel humiliated and upset that I let my guard down and was tricked. No one likes to be humiliated that I think in consequence a lot of people have their guards up 24/7 and are just so paranoid of being tricked again that any stranger showing any sort of friendliness towards you automatically sets off alarm bells.

The second type, which is a much smaller group, are the "weirdos". I don't mean weird as in they are normal people but you have incorrectly labelled them as weird because they approached you, though that sure does happen a lot these days, but the ones who have something mentally wrong with them, and will mess you up if you let them get involved in your life. Half these people are easy to spot (alchololic bums, etc) but the other half are a worry.

The one thing consistent between the two groups is that they all want something from you or have an ulterior motive of some sort, they are far from just simply altruistic. And people are very wary of being tricked (again)

EXCELLENT ASSESSMENT. YOU HAD NIPPED IT IN THE BUD. I HAVE NO FURTHER COMMENTS, YOUR HONOR.

[DaRick]

I don't think climates matter very much here - Anglo people in general are not particularly sociable outside of their little cliques. Sure, they may be friendly enough on initial contact (as many Australians are), but they are unlikely to want to hang around you for long if you are not in their clique. You start feeling like a third wheel when you are around them. Even when you are in their clique, it can be difficult to really get to know them. Anglo guys tend to be quite insecure and often try to hide that behind a mask of bravado - only alcohol will give you a glimpse behind the veil.

East Asians are the same to a certain extent, but they tend to open up once they have some sort of familiarity with you. It is possible to be friendly with an Anglo guy for years and know very little about what goes on in their lives.

I also find it instructive how quick Anglo people are to block or delete people on MSN for trivial things. Frankly, I only do so if camwhores are on the other end. I've always wondered what motivates them - inherent antisocial conditioning that allows them to cut people off at will, or just a pricking of their burgeoning insecurities?

I am very insecure myself, but I tend to be more honest about it.

[E_Irizarry]

I don't think climates matter very much here - Anglo people in general are not particularly sociable outside of their little cliques. Sure, they may be friendly enough on initial contact (as many Australians are), but they are unlikely to want to hang around you for long if you are not in their clique. You start feeling like a third wheel when you are around them. Even when you are in their clique, it can be difficult to really get to know them. Anglo guys tend to be quite insecure and often try to hide that behind a mask of bravado - only alcohol will give you a glimpse behind the veil.

East Asians are the same to a certain extent, but they tend to open up once they have some sort of familiarity with you. It is possible to be friendly with an Anglo guy for years and know very little about what goes on in their lives.

I also find it instructive how quick Anglo people are to block or delete people on MSN for trivial things. Frankly, I only do so if camwhores are on the other end. I've always wondered what motivates them - inherent antisocial conditioning that allows them to cut people off at will, or just a pricking of their burgeoning insecurities?

I am very insecure myself, but I tend to be more honest about it.

I'm sold from the bold[-face print]. You are the most honest Anglo-Saxon-based type of dude I have ever seen put it out there this blatantly honest. Virtual beer's on me, matey. :O) I think it has a lot to do with the latter, of the burgeoning insecurities of the person whom they are blocking that they may be jealous, envious, or cannot manipulate whatsoever or find them to be corny/lame, et. al.

There's so many rules and so many double standards just so the next person can feel better and be bigger and better than the next person. The Anglosphere is a true dog-eat-dog domain. However, in 3rd world countries, leaving your valuables out or not hustling enough to survive is the most pertinent thing. Anti-social, random killings, et. al. don't really apply in the third world as much. Killings based on love - yeah - that's humane unfortunately & worldwide.

[DaRick]

I don't think climates matter very much here - Anglo people in general are not particularly sociable outside of their little cliques. Sure, they may be friendly enough on initial contact (as many Australians are), but they are unlikely to want to hang around you for long if you are not in their clique. You start feeling like a third wheel when you are around them. Even when you are in their clique, it can be difficult to really get to know them. Anglo guys tend to be quite insecure and often try to hide that behind a mask of bravado - only alcohol will give you a glimpse behind the veil.

East Asians are the same to a certain extent, but they tend to open up once they have some sort of familiarity with you. It is possible to be friendly with an Anglo guy for years and know very little about what goes on in their lives.

I also find it instructive how quick Anglo people are to block or delete people on MSN for trivial things. Frankly, I only do so if camwhores are on the other end. I've always wondered what motivates them - inherent antisocial conditioning that allows them to cut people off at will, or just a pricking of their burgeoning insecurities?

I am very insecure myself, but I tend to be more honest about it.

I'm sold from the bold[-face print]. You are the most honest Anglo-Saxon-based type of dude I have ever seen put it out there this blatantly honest. Virtual beer's on me, matey. :O) I think it has a lot to do with the latter, of the burgeoning insecurities of the person whom they are blocking that they may be jealous, envious, or cannot manipulate whatsoever or find them to be corny/lame, et. al.

There's so many rules and so many double standards just so the next person can feel better and be bigger and better than the next person. The Anglosphere is a true dog-eat-dog domain. However, in 3rd world countries, leaving your valuables out or not hustling enough to survive is the most pertinent thing. Anti-social, random killings, et. al. don't really apply in the third world as much. Killings based on love - yeah - that's humane unfortunately & worldwide.

Yeah, this is what bothers me. They don't even give you the courtesy of working any issues they may have with you out...and people wonder why friends in the Anglosphere 'move on'? There's often surprisingly little trust.

As for the beer, thanks, but I'll pass. It's not my thing. A Coke would be good though.

[E_Irizarry]

@DaRick,

Hahahaa you know what I mean, man. I think it all stems back from Victorian-Calvinist puritanical principles that Anglos adhere by.

And even after America broke free from England, it still inherited those aforementioned types of principles.

[Winston]

Having lived in Seattle for 25 years, I'd venture to say NO place is as bad as Seattle. There are too many things that work against us here such as:

1. Bad weather. Most people go to work and then rush home to look at Netflix.
2. A high concentration of Scandinavian and Asian people (both considered on the quiet side of the coin).
3. Seattle has the highest level of educated population in USA which equals a boat load of snooty people who think they are better than you regardless of what they look like.
4. An extremely high ratio of single guys so the females are not hungry for attention.
5. High degree of independence. Why go out and do a group event when a guy can hop into his Suburu and go for a hike by yourself? Trust me, this happens....a lot.

So unless you are married, Seattle is the shits.

You guys won't believe this. In the comments of my Seattle Freeze video, some guy claims that Seattle is like heaven compared to Latvia! WTF? Is this guy insane? The girls in Latvia are a MILLION TIMES more friendly, sociable, down to earth, feminine, and healthy looking than females in modern America!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu6zAoR7j4M

Video is made by an idiot who has no clue. Latvia is a 3rd world, pro-faschist place with social problems that make Seattle or any American city look like heaven, and Latvia has some serious lack of human rights and seriously hateful people. I can't believe someone is so idiotic to make a video like this... wake up and taste the reality. I lived in Latvia before immigrating into the US, btw. What a stupid vid.

to anyone who's dumb and ignorant enough to believe this video, I recommend to spend some time living in Baltic countries. I lived in Latvia, and the freeze there isn't just a light asocial vibe.. it's DISCRIMINATION AND HATE against those who's "different". Yeah, rite, Latvia is "gooood"..... that's why NYC IS FULL OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM LATVIA ENGAGED IN SLAVE LABOR JUST TO BE AWAY FROM THAT HORRIBLE PLACE

[NorthAmericanguy]

"Question is, when will people stop being so f***ing paranoid and terrified of each other. When will neighbours start talking to each other and inviting each other over?"



This will not stop until people are put into the position to NEED each other again. But as of right now, technology, although it's helpful, it enables people to live lives independently from each other, and it gives people the feeling that they don't need anybody.

For example, I remember onetime in the 1990's when the power went out in my city for hours during the day so people then started to congregate outside and talk to each other on the steps while all of us kids played games in the streets.

You figure once the AC does not work, the TV/radio does not work, the computer is down, the phone systems are down, and the lights are off, people are forced to come outside and interact with others.

[Iawesome60]

I don't think climates matter very much here - Anglo people in general are not particularly sociable outside of their little cliques. Sure, they may be friendly enough on initial contact (as many Australians are), but they are unlikely to want to hang around you for long if you are not in their clique. You start feeling like a third wheel when you are around them. Even when you are in their clique, it can be difficult to really get to know them. Anglo guys tend to be quite insecure and often try to hide that behind a mask of bravado - only alcohol will give you a glimpse behind the veil.

East Asians are the same to a certain extent, but they tend to open up once they have some sort of familiarity with you. It is possible to be friendly with an Anglo guy for years and know very little about what goes on in their lives.

I also find it instructive how quick Anglo people are to block or delete people on MSN for trivial things. Frankly, I only do so if camwhores are on the other end. I've always wondered what motivates them - inherent antisocial conditioning that allows them to cut people off at will, or just a pricking of their burgeoning insecurities?

I am very insecure myself, but I tend to be more honest about it.

Also, Americans unfollow people on twitter, delete people on facebook, etc. This happened to me numerous times.

[jamesbond]

"Question is, when will people stop being so f***ing paranoid and terrified of each other. When will neighbours start talking to each other and inviting each other over?"

This will not stop until people are put into the position to NEED each other again. But as of right now, technology, although it's helpful, it enables people to live lives independently from each other, and it gives people the feeling that they don't need anybody.

For example, I remember onetime in the 1990's when the power went out in my city for hours during the day so people then started to congregate outside and talk to each other on the steps while all of us kids played games in the streets.

You figure once the AC does not work, the TV/radio does not work, the computer is down, the phone systems are down, and the lights are off, people are forced to come outside and interact with others.

Americans feel uncomfortable meeting new people. I really believe this "anti-social programming" starts when kids are young here in the US. Starting in grade school, people learn to only socialize with their friends and not make any new friends. This becomes more pronounced in high school. Just try moving to a new city in your high school years and start attending a new high school (like I had to). Trying to make new friends in high school is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics.

[NorthAmericanguy]

"Question is, when will people stop being so f***ing paranoid and terrified of each other. When will neighbours start talking to each other and inviting each other over?"

This will not stop until people are put into the position to NEED each other again. But as of right now, technology, although it's helpful, it enables people to live lives independently from each other, and it gives people the feeling that they don't need anybody.

For example, I remember onetime in the 1990's when the power went out in my city for hours during the day so people then started to congregate outside and talk to each other on the steps while all of us kids played games in the streets.

You figure once the AC does not work, the TV/radio does not work, the computer is down, the phone systems are down, and the lights are off, people are forced to come outside and interact with others.

Americans feel uncomfortable meeting new people. I really believe this "anti-social programming" starts when kids are young here in the US. Starting in grade school, people learn to only socialize with their friends and not make any new friends. This becomes more pronounced in high school. Just try moving to a new city in your high school years and start attending a new high school (like I had to). Trying to make new friends in high school is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics.

Yes, I do agree. Americans are uncomfortable meeting new people and it does start from a young age.

For example, kids here in the west are forced to sit alone at their desk and are trained to solve problems on their own apposed to the schools in the east where kids are put in groups and are encouraged to work as a team to solve problems.

[jamesbond]

Yes, I do agree. Americans are uncomfortable meeting new people and it does start from a young age.

For example, kids here in the west are forced to sit alone at their desk and are trained to solve problems on their own apposed to the schools in the east where kids are put in groups and are encouraged to work as a team to solve problems.

In America we are taught to be "independent" and "strong" and to not need others. What happens is that we wind up being very lonely and isolated here in America. No wonder there are so many depressed and lonely people in America.

[tmr]

There is a reason for the isolation

One of them is built into the American culture. In all other cultures the culture gives you a template as to what it means to be say a mexican or a phillipino or a spanish person. In America there is no such template everyone gets to define it for themselves.