The danger of vaccines that is being covered up

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odbo
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Post by odbo »

you didn't read any of my proof you've read the proof of profiteering idiots and shills. what don't you understand about that?

it's the same tactics that were used after the jfk assassination, when they put out all this utter bull about cubans or soviets killing him. they made as many theories as they could and made it as ridiculous as possible so that people would simply scoff at the idea of any conspiracy. cognitive dissonance. people of the mainstream like rush limbaugh or glen beck are in the same business as alex jones, jeff rense or david icke. they distort the truth, they create disinfo, they mislead people. believe me the shill list is long.

isn't it interesting how a couple of college kids put together loose change, and so quickly after 9/11.
the 9/11 truth movement was engineered. and steered. the government isn't so incompetent as to collapse a 47 story building and then expect no one to notice. the fact that they wanted some people to catch on doesn't change the fact that it was an inside job.

i don't really care if you think the twin towers or building 7 collapsed as a result of the plane crashes. further investigation will show you that it was a zionist, not an islamic conspiracy. not even mentioning everything that has happened since.

watch ring of power, the first 20 minutes. is it fraudulent info?




there's also this one made by italians.
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Winston
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Post by Winston »

globetrotter wrote:
Winston wrote:Question to those who are pro-vaccine here: (e.g. Globetrotter and Momopi)

- How do you know whether vaccines are really about protection, or about making Big Pharma rich?

- How do you know whether what doctors tell you about vaccines is pure and objective, or corrupted by commercial interests of Big Pharma?

And what is the basis of your beliefs? Is it based on faith? Or on the "authority=truth" mantra that you've been programmed with?
It is based upon the Scientific Method, something that you are so ignorant of you do not even know that you do not know.

Let me explain basic science to you.

1) You lay in a baseline. This would be kids get Polio and die or are on crutches or live in an iron lung.
2) You alter the conditions of the sample. This would be you administer the vaccine to the kids.
3) You then observe the results in the population of kids that did get the vaccine (they don't get sick) and those who did not (they get sick).
4) Based upon (3) you then decide to proceed with larger clinical trials, or in the case of the Polio vaccine, you cut those short and release it in to the general populace.

Why would you do so (cut the trials short)? Mostly because people won't die if you accelerate the process. Mom's don't have to fear summer outbreaks, trivial things like that.

Both of you, Winston and LinuxOnly, need to read this:

Dunning–Kruger effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2 ... ger_effect

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which unskilled people make poor decisions and reach erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to appreciate their mistakes.[1] The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their own abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence. Competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. As Kruger and Dunning (1999) conclude, "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others" (p. 1127). [2]
You didn't really answer my questions. So the efficacy of vaccines is based on the Scientific Method? How do you know this? Cause they say so? Do you believe everything you hear? Why do you take Big Pharma's word on faith? Can you explain that one? Please do.

What makes you think Big Pharma is honest and isn't lying or covering up? Why are they innocent and full of integrity in your eyes? Explain this one please.

What is your BASIS of believing whatever you are told?
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Winston
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Post by Winston »

momopi wrote:
Winston wrote:Question to those who are pro-vaccine here: (e.g. Globetrotter and Momopi)
- How do you know whether vaccines are really about protection, or about making Big Pharma rich?
- How do you know whether what doctors tell you about vaccines is pure and objective, or corrupted by commercial interests of Big Pharma?
And what is the basis of your beliefs? Is it based on faith? Or on the "authority=truth" mantra that you've been programmed with?
Finally, why would the government give a shit about protecting children?
Is it your belief that secret agendas do not exist? Do government cover ups never happen, other than the ones like Watergate that became public?

That's 8 questions with presupposition. Are you paying for my time to answer them?
That's a copout and not a real defense. If you really feel that it's too many questions, then how about just addressing the first two?

- How do you know whether vaccines are really about protection, or about making Big Pharma rich?
- How do you know whether what doctors tell you about vaccines is pure and objective, or corrupted by commercial interests of Big Pharma?

I just want to know the BASIS of your faith in what you're told. Simple as that.
Last edited by Winston on March 21st, 2011, 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Winston
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Post by Winston »

Globetrotter:
You would only think so if you were ignorant of science, physics and building materials science.

When you toss a few hundred tons of debris on to a building from 53 storeys above, it might cause it to experience structural failure, don't you agree?

Shall I calculate the KE involved and compare it to a bomb blast?
LMAO! LOLOLOL So you're seriously saying that falling debris from a collapsing skyscraper can cause another skyscraper to fail and fall at free fall speed too? LOLOLOL Are you serious? Where do you get that?

First, that's NEVER happened. It isn't even possible in theory. Experts do not claim that such would be usual either. In fact, NIST admitted that it could not explain the free fall and non-resistance of Building 7.

Dude, get real. You can't just vanish all that mass without cutting the foundational beams.

Also, if it's that easy to demo buildings, why do demolition companies exist? Why don't they just hire arsonists to set fire to a few floors to demolition buildings?

How come the top demolition expert in Europe, Danny Jowenko, said that Building 7 was a controlled demolition for sure? You didn't answer that.

Why do you have to believe that Larry Silverstein is an angel? Powerful people have dirty secrets. Do you deny that?

One of my expat friends who does not believe in 9/11 conspiracies eventually admitted that Larry Silverstein could have blown Building 7 to save on repairs and just collect the insurance money. This friend is pro-war and anti-conspiracy, yet even he admits that Building 7 looks like a controlled demolition.

How can you claim to be a man of reason yet be so biased and bigoted toward any conspiracies?
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globetrotter
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Post by globetrotter »

@Winston. Yes and here is my proof.

==============================================

Here is just one calculation I did myself:

One kg m2/s2 = One joule.
One ton of TNT has about 4.184 × 10^9 joules.
One floor of WTC 1 or 2 was about 1300 tons, or 1,180,000 kg
Thus the PE of ONE FLOOR of WTC at 1,000 feet or 305 meters was:
M*G*H = 1180000kg * 9.8 m/s2 * 305m = 3.5 × 10^9 joules.

That is just one floor, assumes the smallest figure for each floor in kg, and takes the low end estimates for all. This includes no live loading, wind loading, infrastructure, or people, fixtures and furniture. It also does not account for the lighter load bearings supports at the higher floors and the thicker ones on the lower floors.

Summing all 110 floors and their height in meters, accounting for 4 meters per floor as the 110 storey buildings were 440 meters tall (440/110=4.00), one obtains these figures for one tower of WTC, either 1 or 2:

Total Potential Energy of the buildings stable and at rest before destruction:
2.82E+11 Joules

I have seen estimates of from 10X this figure to 50% greater. Thus my figure is very conservative as it is on the very low end and a usable guideline for minimum PE.

Total equivalent PE as expressed in tons of TNT:
67.5 tons of TNT, or .0675 Kilotons

If you like you can skip the calculus and do the above calculations discretely by hand. Please check it.

Thus each floor of WTC falling from height was the equivalent to about 1.22 tons of TNT for floor 110 to .011 tons of TNT for the roof of floor 1. This does not include any fires, friction, or the impact energy, or KE, imparted. The Murrah Bldg. blast was about 2.5 tons of TNT. So as you can see, there was ample potential energy within just the 140,000 T that made up each building, let alone the energy from the jets or the jet fuel, or any combustion of the tower contents, to destroy WTC 6 & 7.

67.5 / 2.5 = 27 OKC blast equivalents in KE per each WTC 1 or 2 tower.

That is ALOT of energy, and it is more than enough to do the damage witnessed.

==============================================

Your argument regarding vaccines is already dead as I have shown that prior to the Polio vaccine, children contracted it and died. Same for Measles, etc.

After the vaccines were administered, deaths plummeted. In 2000 Measles did not exist in the USA anymore due to this vaccine.

That is how it's done.

1) Establish baseline
2) Introduce vaccine and measure
3) Compare control group to vaccinated group
4) Conclude whether the vaccine works or not.

=============================================

Your assumptions that the buildings fell at free fall speed is simply an error.

They fell at about 200 km/hr in 10 seconds. If they had fallen at free fall speed they would have impacted at about 300 km/hr and taken 8 seconds, not 10 seconds.

=============================================
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Post by globetrotter »

Winston wrote:Question to those who are pro-vaccine here: (e.g. Globetrotter and Momopi)
- How do you know whether vaccines are really about protection, or about making Big Pharma rich?
Because people used to die from Polio and the Measles in the USA, and now they don't.
Because they stopped contracting the disease AFTER people were vaccinated and those who did not get vaccinated continued to contract the disease.
Because in 1950 people contracted Polio and Measles in the USA and in 2000 they did not.
Because control groups were measured by who took the vaccine and who did not.
Because the control group did not get sick and the non-control group did.
Because kids I knew who were older than I contracted the disease and no one my age did after we got the vaccine.
Because you and LinuxOnly and Adama have not contracted Polio or Measles.
Because no one you know has contracted those diseases.
Because nations where people are not vaccinated have outbreaks of the Measles, etc.
Because nations where people are vaccinated do not have outbreaks except for recent, unvaccinated immigrants.
- How do you know whether what doctors tell you about vaccines is pure and objective, or corrupted by commercial interests of Big Pharma?
Because the results speak for themselves.

People used to get the disease and some would die.

Now no one gets the disease and no one dies from it.
And what is the basis of your beliefs? Is it based on faith?
It isn't faith Winston.

It is science, reason, logical proof, experimental deduction.

This comment of yours was addressed by me earlier in the thread. To you, because you really don't understand the scientific method and you think it is a faith-based system like your CT religion, you think it is magic, or opinion, or faith, or parroting what 'Those in Charge' tell us what to think. You don't understand what we are talking about, so it's magic or opinion or faith or 'we are brainwashed sheeple' to you.

No, we are simply educated in the scientific method and empirical study, something that I see you lack awareness of.

I have listed the basic steps several times.

Here they are again:

1) Ask a Question
2) Do Background Research
3) Construct a Hypothesis
4) Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment
5) Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion
6) Communicate Your Results

Test Your Hypothesis by Doing an Experiment can be broken down into:

Establish a baseline
Set up control and non-control groups
Administer the vaccine to non-control groups
Observe any differences between the control and non-control groups

Then you Analyze Your Data and Draw a Conclusion.

When step 5 was reached with Polio and Measles vaccines the results were so definitive that trials were immediately cut short and vaccinations commenced on a societal wide scale. This was a good thing, btw - fewer people got sick and fewer people died. This resulted in the status of those diseases in the USA in 2000, where they had been eradicated from the USA population.
Last edited by globetrotter on March 21st, 2011, 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by momopi »

Winston wrote:That's a copout and not a real defense. If you really feel that it's too many questions, then how about just addressing the first two?
- How do you know whether vaccines are really about protection, or about making Big Pharma rich?
- How do you know whether what doctors tell you about vaccines is pure and objective, or corrupted by commercial interests of Big Pharma?
I just want to know the BASIS of your faith in what you're told. Simple as that.
In real estate, a potential buyer will often make their decision within 15 seconds of viewing a property. This is why sellers hire professional stagers, because first impression is everything. The role of the stager is to depersonalize the house and make potential buyers imagine as if they were living there. You might like your home decorated with a certain paint or wallpaper, but it won't help you sell the house. A professional stager will come and rip everything down and re-do the house professionally so that it'd sell at a good price. The financial benefit (or consequence) means having an additional $50k in your pocket, or $50k less.

When you're trying to sell a message, you must be aware of your audience and deliver your message accordingly. In terms of first impression, the content of the message is not as important as the presentation. To put it another way, it's not what you say, but how you say it. Using words like "faith" is an automatic negative for me, versus "capitalization rate" brings me to attention. Failing to impress the audience, they won't give you their time. Instead of wasting my time to write a reply to your lengthy ad nauseam, I'd rather go shop for gruyère cheese for my fondue. What you think "should" work is like a purple wallpaper, if it doesn't sell, you don't get to blame the buyer.

------

A company's responsibility is to generate a profit for its shareholders, it doesn't matter if it's a computer company, a for-profit hospital, or a pharmaceutical company. Investors put their money in a drug company, the company performs R&D and produce a new drug, which takes $500 million to $2 billion to run through the clinical tests and approval process (7-8 years). Assuming that it's successful, the investors would expect a return on their investment, and rewards the company executives with higher pay. As a business major yourself, you should know statements like "making big pharma rich" is a misnomer.

Suppose if you think a vaccine is unnecessary, you should first consider that is it unnecessary for you because everyone else had been vaccinated. It's also not legally prohibited to promote and sell the vaccine for peace of mind (this does not conflict with the Hippocratic Oath), in the same way that State Farm Insurance sells earthquake insurance. You could pay the insurance premium for 20 years and never get a payout, and you can get vaccinated for Hepatitis B without ever being exposed to it. If, however, the vaccine produced harmful side effect, than the proscribing doctor, hospital, and pharmaceutical company are all legally and financially liable for its consequences. For example:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-2 ... 91695.html

In the above scenario, the potential payout is $20 million per kid. If the company had to pay the same to 100 kids, that would amount to $2 billion dollars. There's an obvious economic disincentive to continue selling the drug or vaccine. As an investor, you wouldn't tolerate the CEO from making such poor decisions. As a consumer, you have the right to form consumer advocacy groups and petition the FDA to change, cancel a regulation, or take other action. The FDA issues clear warnings on possible side effects of drugs. The agency receives ~200 petitions annually and is required to review and respond to them within 180 days. If you have questions regarding the petition process, you can call (301) 827-6860 or visit FDA.GOV to request information. If you have no interest in actually taking action, then you're wasting my time.

If you have concerns about the pharmaceutical industry's influence on the medical profession, contact AMSA at (703) 620-6600 or visit their web site at http://www.pharmfree.org. They're the people who are actually doing something about it. Perhaps you might be interested in reading this report, which shows who's on the take: http://www.amsascorecard.org/
Last edited by momopi on March 21st, 2011, 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Adama
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Post by Adama »

Scientifically coincidences mean nothing. However, with people in the equation (i.e. no automatons, the real world) coincidences can build up. Spiritual people do not ignore coincidence.

As for being like Feminists, the only one I see here like that is Lee: name calling, condescension, insults, shaming tactics. That sure seems more like feminists to me.
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Post by globetrotter »

Adama wrote:Scientifically coincidences mean nothing. However, with people in the equation (i.e. no automatons, the real world) coincidences can build up. Spiritual people do not ignore coincidence.

As for being like Feminists, the only one I see here like that is Lee: name calling, condescension, insults, shaming tactics. That sure seems more like feminists to me.
Spiritual. That's Religion. QED. I am right. CT is a religion, and you are a religious adherent to a belief system, a faith-based, irrational, non-science view of the world.

When discussing a building, science rules, not spiritual points of view.

Spirituality is irrelevant when determining what happened with a building and a plane and how it fell. So is correlation and coincidence.

You haven't addressed my analysis of the flaws in the various arguments.

Anyone have a rebuttal to my calculations and math?

===================
Winston, Adama, LinuxOnly:
Do you or do you not understand the following?


One kg m2/s2 = One joule.
One ton of TNT has about 4.184 × 10^9 joules.
One floor of WTC 1 or 2 was about 1300 tons, or 1,180,000 kg
Thus the PE of ONE FLOOR of WTC at 1,000 feet or 305 meters was:
M*G*H = 1180000kg * 9.8 m/s2 * 305m = 3.5 × 10^9 joules.
===================

Anyone?

I will post my work again.

Prove that the following math is wrong:

==============================================

WTC 1 or 2 contained enough energy in the building to destroy WTC 6 and WTC 7


Here is just one calculation I did myself:

One kg m2/s2 = One joule.
One ton of TNT has about 4.184 × 10^9 joules.
One floor of WTC 1 or 2 was about 1300 tons, or 1,180,000 kg
Thus the PE of ONE FLOOR of WTC at 1,000 feet or 305 meters was:
M*G*H = 1180000kg * 9.8 m/s2 * 305m = 3.5 × 10^9 joules.

That is just one floor, assumes the smallest figure for each floor in kg, and takes the low end estimates for all. This includes no live loading, wind loading, infrastructure, or people, fixtures and furniture. It also does not account for the lighter load bearings supports at the higher floors and the thicker ones on the lower floors.

Summing all 110 floors and their height in meters, accounting for 4 meters per floor as the 110 storey buildings were 415 meters tall (415/110=approx 4.00), one obtains these figures for one tower of WTC, either 1 or 2:

Total Potential Energy of the buildings stable and at rest before destruction:
2.82E+11 Joules

I have seen estimates of from 10X this figure to 50% greater. Thus my figure is very conservative as it is on the very low end and a usable guideline for minimum PE.

Total equivalent PE as expressed in tons of TNT:
67.5 tons of TNT, or .0675 Kilotons

If you like you can skip the calculus and do the above calculations discretely by hand. Please check it.

Thus each floor of WTC falling from height was the equivalent to about 1.22 tons of TNT for floor 110 to .011 tons of TNT for the roof of floor 1. This does not include any fires, friction, or the impact energy, or KE, imparted. The Murrah Bldg. blast was about 2.5 tons of TNT. So as you can see, there was ample potential energy within just the 140,000 T that made up each building, let alone the energy from the jets or the jet fuel, or any combustion of the tower contents, to destroy WTC 6 & 7.

67.5 / 2.5 = 27 OKC blast equivalents in KE per each WTC 1 or 2 tower.

That is ALOT of energy, and it is more than enough to do the damage witnessed.

==============================================

Vaccines eliminated Polio and Measles


Your argument regarding vaccines is already dead as I have shown that prior to the Polio vaccine, children contracted it and died. Same for Measles, etc.

After the vaccines were administered, deaths plummeted. In 2000 Measles did not exist in the USA anymore due to this vaccine.

That is how it's done.

1) Establish baseline
2) Introduce vaccine and measure
3) Compare control group to vaccinated group
4) Conclude whether the vaccine works or not.

=============================================

The 'Terminal Velocity' "They Fell at Free Fall Speed" or "Near Free Fall Speed" Canard


Your assumptions that the buildings fell at or near free fall speed is simply an error.

They fell at about 200 km/hr in 10 seconds. If they had fallen at free fall speed they would have impacted at about 300 km/hr and taken 8 seconds, not 10 seconds.

The same result for WTC 7 using the same methods.

How was this determined? By viewing multiple videos of the collapses and timing them with both a stop watch and via frame per second analysis, then using math and physics to back out the final velocities and the time it took.

=============================================
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Post by odbo »

okay since no one bothered and you haven't figured it out yet i'll tell you. your equations don't account for corruption.
they're nothing but theories for a perfect world that doesn't exist.

despite over whelming evidence you refuse to believe in corruption or conspiracies due to the success of neuro-linguistic programming on you. when in fact it's simply how the world runs.
globetrotter wrote:Spiritual. That's Religion. QED. I am right. CT is a religion, and you are a religious adherent to a belief system, a faith-based, irrational, non-science view of the world.

When discussing a building, science rules, not spiritual points of view.

Spirituality is irrelevant when determining what happened with a building and a plane and how it fell. So is correlation and coincidence.
Religion is a doctrine, like the scientific method. But it's not the religion thats the problem but someone's interpretation of it. Spirituality is in everyone of us and doesn't really have rules. A person who ignores their intuition is a fool. It's there for a reason and it's never wrong. Truth isn't a man made construct, it's something that screams out at those willing to listen. I dont even think man is capable of truth, but that's a deeper discussion.

I'm not against the scientific method per-say but people in the west are definitely trapped to the degree that they are easy fooled. You believe you are so smart because you adhere to it. But it was given to you in school. And where did school get it, god? The American public education system was created by people from elite families and had a plan in mind. I forgot his name but I think it was the same guy who created the library indexing system. if the scientific process told you that mercury is healthy, you'd run down to the recycling center and get some mercury to add to your salad. and that happens all the time! the anti-science i mean. any time a study comes out exposing fluoride, an article is put out in quick succession that contradicts it. people don't want to contemplate that it's junk science, because ignorance is bliss. it's much easier to give others authority over your mind.

i had a friend that i would play soccer with, who argued that when i bent it like beckham (at least 10 feet to the side), the ball didn't actually curve, and it was simply a visual illusion. because he did an equation and hadn't taken air resistance into account. what a f***ing idiot. but you see he was totally deluded, his common sense absent, his 3rd eye shut, and was lacking scepticism for his interpretation of science. who's the one part of a religion here!

What happens when a crime is committed? In a lot of cases only the perpetrator will ever know what truly occurred. In the case of 9/11 the evidence was destroyed, during and after the event, or killed in the case of some witnesses. But sensing lies and thus figuring out the truth, is not the same as figuring out every detail to the story. the spirituality side of the brain, the pineal gland and the right hemisphere is very important. you won't get far in life only using the left. computing data is fine but how do you know the data they gave you is accurate? another thing that bugged me is you repeatedly complained about our lack of ability to think critically. a case of a personal flaw rearing its head in the form of an insult to others. but regardless, i just wanted to say that humans weren't necessarily meant to think horizontally, in steps, that's another product of the education system.

in the case of conspiracies, me or winston don't have a bug placed at places like the council on foreign relations. we don't sit around 12 hours a day and listen in to everything that is said. so we don't have every piece of data. but the big agendas, the things that really matter, are fairly easy to track. so in that respect we know the truth, and can sense lies when they have their puppets bush or obama up there making whatever excuse to do something that's going to further their agenda. and most agendas are decades old anyway so there are documents available or at least books so you can consider a theory and look for patterns to confirm it. the same with 9/11. i remember the morning it happened, the first thing i thought of when i saw it on tv was "what took so long". isn't that odd? as in why didn't it happen in the 90s.

a lot of times they're out in the open about this stuff. in fact the council on foreign relations is seen as an arm of the govt these days. it's on pbs,etc. of course the programs on pbs are sponsored by the rockefeller foundation (chairman of the CFR) , and other "benevolent" people.

as long as you don't let unrelated things sway your opinion or compromise your judgement, it can be a valuable thing to consider the back story.

think how you want. i'm sick of this topic. it's near impossible to get a religious zealot to try a different perspective. that's all you are
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Post by globetrotter »

LinuxOnly wrote:okay since no one bothered and you haven't figured it out yet i'll tell you. your equations don't account for corruption.
they're nothing but theories for a perfect world that doesn't exist.
So you do not understand Math & Physics and you do not understand what the equations above prove.

I thought so.
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Post by odbo »

:lol: nice try

i haven't done any math or physics in more than 5 years. i'm not in the mood to look at such a thing when i'm posting at 2 in the morning
if your equations had a valid point we might of responded

but you're in your own world right now. you're afraid to leave your comfort zone. though you're now in china and have no plans to go back to the states, if you explored the idea that it was an inside job, you might conclude that it was true, and you'd never be able unsee what has been seen. that would mean everything you believed in all the years you lived in america was a lie. your life was a lie.

that would hurt your ego, the thing you've built up all those years of being a pompous jackass. i don't blaim you for clinging on to equations and making ridiculous leaps of faith. i sympathize with you to a degree, but really, the chickens are coming home to roost. you can't act like a jerkoff all your life and not pay the price eventually.

when all of this is clearer than day in a few years, i don't think you're going to shatter into pieces and become a humble man. i think you're so full of shit that you'll make some rationalization that this reality is an illusion and your version of the story is still correct in the real universe. you're certifiable. have a nice life
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Post by globetrotter »

LinuxOnly wrote::lol: nice try

i haven't done any math or physics in more than 5 years. i'm not in the mood to look at such a thing when i'm posting at 2 in the morning
if your equations had a valid point we might of responded

but you're in your own world right now. you're afraid to leave your comfort zone.
So I and others are supposed to 'assume' you understand the math involved merely on your supposition, with no counterproof?

That is also another logical fallacy. You cannot claim understanding by fiat. You must show your work, here, to me, to show me why my math is wrong.

That is how debate and logic works and if you don't you have, for about the Nth time, shown that you do not know how to prove a thesis.
You're afraid to leave your comfort zone.
Incorrect.

I understand your point of view. Completely.

Your gut instinct, your spiritual being, your intuition is telling you that WTC 7 could not be destroyed as in 'the official version' or that WTC 1/2 could not have collapsed at the rate they did, or that {Pick any CT Event} could NOT have occurred as per 'the official version' and that your spiritual instinct tells you otherwise.

The math, however, clearly shows why they could, and did do so.

This isn't about some touchy-feeley, new age comfort zone.

This is math, the math contradicts your assumptions. It is as simple as that. Math just is.

1 + 1 = 2 is not subject to alteration by intuition or if you are a spiritual being or if you have a gut instinct in the Euclidean World. We are not discussing anything even remotely on the level of Quantum Physics and you know that, therefore any of the statistical probabilities of that branch of physics, or Heisenberg, are irrelevant to the discussion of the purely Euclidean matters at hand.

You keep ignoring what I have repeatedly posted - the reason why I disagree is because I considered opinions such as yours and then found the flaws that are rampant, and constant and exist in each sentence someone like you writes. I considered your thesis, and it's wrong.

In this post the flaws are:
You don't need to show your math for my math to be wrong
I am afraid to leave my comfort zone.

Which is false, because I would not know so much about this subject, and know why you are wrong and engaging in a faith-based belief system and not rational, logical, reasonable, intelligent, science-based proof of why events transpired as they did, if I had not left my comfort zone to discover if you were correct.

I will repeat again, as you cannot acknowledge this concept:
I am not afraid to leave my comfort zone, because the reason I know that you are wrong is that I considered your thesis, and theses, and then found them lacking in multiple aspects with multiple flaws. I was opened minded, I considered your points of view, and I immediately began to see numerous, massive flaws that undermine every argument you make. These flaws are constant, they appear in every post you write.

To repeat, for the third time, in this post the flaws are:
1) You refuse to show your math work to disprove my calculations but we are to assume that you are right w/o any evidence
2) You errantly assume that I am afraid to leave my comfort zone.

To repeat, again, Adama - when you make a logical error in your post, every word you type or say from that moment on is nonsense, garbage, irrelevant.

You must first construct ONE sound argument free of fallacy and error, then we can proceed to the next point. Like all CT'ers, like Winston and LO, you cannot even reach this basic, rudimentary level of logical competence as you repeatedly, in every post, toss fallacy and error after wrong assumption.

It is though you are intentionally doing this, disassembling your own argument.

Now, what you will do if you reply, is then raise another point, a 'Well, what about THIS!??', again, as you and others have done before in this thread and in others. You won't address my points as I have yours, namely 1) That I am afraid to leave my comfort zone and 2) You have not done any math in 5 years.

Or, you will once again return to your fallback that science is a religion, you will dismiss math and physics out of hand, and then make another meta-criticism.
keius
Freshman Poster
Posts: 261
Joined: June 17th, 2010, 1:44 pm

Post by keius »

Christ, this is getting out of hand :P

There's risk in everything you do or take. Especially when it's vaccines, medication, etc. You can take an over the counter med and get some adverse allergic effect that might kill you. And it might be some new allergy you have only recently and unknowingly developed.

As for vaccines, do your research. Look at the historical context. The "what if?"'s. The science. The probabilities and statistics. The experiences of your peers and your own experiences.

There are many reasons for vaccines. For the most part i'm with Globe on this. Looking at the percentages, it is relatively safe. There is always risk. In my entire life, i've never personally met anyone who was harmed by vaccinations.
I've had shots. And i've skipped shots.
My kid has had all his shots. Why? Because it'll be required if he ever wants in daycare/preschool/kinder/etc.
Weight the risks vs the gains.

Something to note though...when the swine flu vaccine came out, i opted out of getting it for my entire family. Too rushed and untested. Plus i weighed the risk vs reward. The regular seasonal flu was MUCH more deadly in terms of pure numbers and most of it's effects. I also hadn't had a flu shot in decades and had never caught the flu. My kid's doctor asked if i wanted the shot for my kid. I told her no and she never asked about it again. She asked to cover her ass but i don't think she's a big believer of flu shots or flu vaccines. Chances of contracting it + chances of it being severe were not worth getting the shots.

All i can say is, to each his own. Educate yourselves and make your own decisions on which vaccinations are worth getting.

And i'm not gonna touch the whole 911 thing. It's obvious that there was alot of shady business going on but we might never know for sure. Why don't we all just agree on that and leave it be.
globetrotter
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1023
Joined: November 20th, 2009, 11:45 am
Location: Someplace Other Than This Forum

Post by globetrotter »

keius wrote:I've had shots. My kid has had all his shots. Why? Because it'll be required if he ever wants in daycare/preschool/kinder/etc.
Wait for LO, Adama or Winston to allege you are a brainwashed sheeple in 3...2...1...
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