Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

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Winston
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by Winston »

You know one thing that really pisses me off about america is that the system considers that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving a corporation or government agency with your whole life and willing to die for it if necessary. Dying for your job or for the government (aka public service) is considered an honor or virtue. Isnt that sickening?

The thing is you cant just work for a paycheck. They expect you to live to work literally and give your heart, mind and soul for your job and make it the most important thing in the universe. And even sacrificing your life for your job if necessary. They show that on TV too as a good thing. And on TV everyone acts like they dont want a vacation from their job and dont know how to take one, as though that were normal.

Even on star trek and the x files, everyone is a workaholic that doesnt want any vacation time too. Is that insane or what? Even in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and no one has to pay bills, everyone is still a workaholic willing to risk their lives to serve the federation and die for it if necessary. Lol. As if that were a good thing. Wtf?!

In star trek the next generation when the enterprise takes shore leave, commander riker usually says "im not good at organizing my vacation time. Something usually comes up to cut my shore leave short." As if he prefers no shore leave and prefers to work 24/7. Lol. Wtf? Why does everyone on TV say that? Is that normal to want to work 24/7? Especially in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and people dont need to pay bills? Lol. Why would anyone be a workaholic in a universe where money is no longer used? That makes no sense. Whats their incentive to become a slave to the federation and die for it if necessary and risk their life everyday? Because they got nothing better to do? I would be exploring the universe or playing around in the holodeck. In a world without scarcity who would need to work or risk their life? Lol. Totally ridiculous.

And on the tv show x files, mulder and scully are always reluctant to take any vacation. And when they do they look for excuses to cut it short and go back to work. lol. Is that what a normal person does? Why would i want to do that? Because everyone else does that? Im confused.

The biggest hypocrisy in america is this:

1. You are told that you are a free person living in a free country in the land of the free. So you are the master of your destiny and independent and free to make your own decisions. You have unique freedoms in america that others abroad dont have. And many american soldiers died for your special freedoms.

2. However, you are required to conform to everything such as your society and culture and especially your employer and the company you work for. You are required to obey thousands of rules. You are required to agree with all the teachings in your culture too. And you are required to think like everyone else too. You are expected to believe everything the government and media says, even when they lie. And you must agree with your culture and nation in all matters and support all wars your government starts. You are expected to have a herd mentality. Your life has no purpose or value unless you are serving a corporation or government or organization, and giving them your whole life, heart and soul, not just your labor. And die for your job in the line of duty if necessary. In other words, your job is your God, literally.

Also:
1. You have free speech under the first amendment. It is your right.
2. However, you must say things that are politically correct and within narrow boundaries. You cannot say anything taboo or controversial. You are free to do what we say and free to think what we tell you. You are free but you cannot act freely.

What the f**k? Is that the biggest contradiction in the world or what?! I cant believe no one questions this openly since its a huge fundamental contradiction and discrepancy.

Do you ever think about this? If so doesnt it piss you off? Its one of the biggest hypocrisies in the world and makes no logical sense. You are told you are free but you are not allowed to be free! Wtf?! (Scratching head) yet very few people realize this or complain about it. They act like this is normal and natural.

Instead i believe one should follow Joseph Campbell's advice to "follow your bliss". But that doesnt mean to do whatever makes you happy, because happiness is fleeting and comes in cycles mixed with unhappiness, just as the ying yang circle depicts. It means to do what makes you feel ALIVE and gives you a deep sense of purpose and meaning in your soul. When you do that your energy will seem limitless because you are doing what you love and are passionate about so you look forward to everyday and never dread mondays.

Thats what i believe we are meant to do. Its totally stupid to teach everyone that their life has no value unless enslaved to a corporation or organization or government or military service, where one is expected to give their all for, including their life if necessary. Thats so stupid.

After all whats the point of making a living, if you have no life or freedom to make a living for? It makes no sense and is self refuting. Why dont they come out and tell the truth, that work is enslavement, not an opportunity?

Furthermore you have to work to impress the job interviewer so that he or she can approve you to be their slave so you can give away your life in servitude. Its a totally insane and nonsensical system.

Yet chinese and americans never protest this or think about it. Except for a few hippies and bohemians here and there.

Dont you find all this insulting too? Doesnt it piss you off when you think about it?

Its also a trap when society tells you that selfishness is always bad and unselfishness is always good and a virtue. Thats a very dangerous teaching that tries to trick you into giving up your life to serve whatever corporation or organization wants to use you for their agenda. Thats the real reason society tells u to be unselfish, so you will live to serve others and allow yourself to be used by the elite or government. It sounds virtuous but in reality its a way for them to control you and make you feel obligated to your "duty".

Now I'm not saying that one should be an inconsiderate selfish bastard and be rude to others without consideration. I'm just saying that its better to be selfish and follow whatever your bliss is and do what your soul wants, as long as it makes you feel alive and gives your life meaning and purpose.

That kind of selfishness has a virtue and is authentic and being true to your soul and integrity. It's better than giving up your life to a corporation or government because you are tricked into believing that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving others. Especially to serve a government that lies to you and has a nefarious agenda, and does not represent the american people and is run by a cartel of criminals with no regard for the Constitution. No way jose. So many people have lost their lives to such a deception, e.g. such as during the Vietnam war or Iraq war.

Everyone ought to read "the virtue of selfishness" by ayn rand, and "how i found freedom in an unfree world" by harry brown - specifically the chapter "the unselfishness trap" - to counteract and see through such societal brainwashing by the elite.

Sorry for the long rant. Doesn't this piss you off too when you think about it?
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by traveller »

Winston wrote:
December 31st, 2017, 11:28 pm

So work in America is not just about paying the bills. Its also a religion, just like in Japan and Singapore. That's why American movies idolize the "do nothing but work and have no other life outside work" as the ideal norm that everyone aspires to.

So you see, living and breathing your work is normal. So is not having any life outside of your work. Work is your God in America. It's your religion. Its your LIFE as well. You are expected to give 110 percent and sacrifice your life for your job. So you see its not just about paying the bills. Its your God. A good person is seen as willing to sacrifice all for their job. And putting their job above all else. Even above God himself. And even above family.

That is what you are supposed to WANT to do in fact without even being told to want it. Lol. America sees this as the law of nature. Not just something you do to get a paycheck and pay the bills. In fact many Americans don't even want to retire. Even if they can. They prefer to work til they die. Because they wouldn't know what to do if they retired.

But the thing is, I don't understand this american mentality and cant relate to it. Because i have hundreds or hobbies and interests to distract me with that i cant even get to. Its a big mystery to me. Americans are like a different animal than me.

Its even considered noble and honorable and admirable for one to sacrifice his life and all his time and energy in servitude to the corporation that he works for. Just as it is in the US military to sacrifice your life for your country. Its considered a good thing and the right thing to do so. Isn't that sickening? Lol. I've just never been able to relate to this kind of mentality. It's strange and alien and stupid.

In America, your job is also your identity. Not just a way to make a living or earn money. Without a job, it's believed that you have nothing to live for and no purpose or function. As if you are born wanting to serve and employer or corporation. lol. It's ridiculous.

Do you guys ever think about all this too and how stupid and nonsensical it is? Especially since it's all forced and you aren't even given a choice about it? Doesn't that piss you off? Since it's all forced upon you without your consent? This is yet another way that America is NOT free.
In Northern Illinois, people are so rushed and hooked on the workaholic life that they will literally kill themselves to get to work an hour early. Every month, Chicagolanders hear of people getting hit by trains while crossing the tracks when the gates are lowered and the red lights are flashing. To them, railroad safety means nothing and has been tossed out the window years ago. Illinoisans don't want to know that it takes but 10 to 15 seconds for a Metra to pass by. To them, a Metra going 70 miles an hour is even a mile long freight train putting along at a quarter of a mile per hour. And they blow right through lowered gates even when the train is 50 feet away and closing in at 60 miles an hour. And a Metra moving at 60 miles an hour can take up to ten football fields to come to a stop after hitting the brakes. Freight trains can take up to a mile and a half to stop depending on speed after hitting the brakes.
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Re: Why is work a religion in America but you aren't given a choice about it?! That's stupid and forced!

Post by traveller »

Adama wrote:
January 1st, 2018, 6:30 am
You can give your all to your work. Then one day you can walk in and because the boss has decided that she no longer likes you, she can make up a reason to fire you on the spot over a very trivial matter. It won't matter how many holidays you sacrificed, how many late nights, or how much you've gone out of your way.
I saw that exact thing happen to a good friend of mine at Steve B Sports Café just outside Downtown Fort Myers last month!
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by traveller »

Winston wrote:
August 1st, 2018, 11:59 pm
You know one thing that really pisses me off about america is that the system considers that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving a corporation or government agency with your whole life and willing to die for it if necessary. Dying for your job or for the government (aka public service) is considered an honor or virtue. Isnt that sickening?

The thing is you cant just work for a paycheck. They expect you to live to work literally and give your heart, mind and soul for your job and make it the most important thing in the universe. And even sacrificing your life for your job if necessary. They show that on TV too as a good thing. And on TV everyone acts like they dont want a vacation from their job and dont know how to take one, as though that were normal.

Even on star trek and the x files, everyone is a workaholic that doesnt want any vacation time too. Is that insane or what? Even in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and no one has to pay bills, everyone is still a workaholic willing to risk their lives to serve the federation and die for it if necessary. Lol. As if that were a good thing. Wtf?!

In star trek the next generation when the enterprise takes shore leave, commander riker usually says "im not good at organizing my vacation time. Something usually comes up to cut my shore leave short." As if he prefers no shore leave and prefers to work 24/7. Lol. Wtf? Why does everyone on TV say that? Is that normal to want to work 24/7? Especially in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and people dont need to pay bills? Lol. Why would anyone be a workaholic in a universe where money is no longer used? That makes no sense. Whats their incentive to become a slave to the federation and die for it if necessary and risk their life everyday? Because they got nothing better to do? I would be exploring the universe or playing around in the holodeck. In a world without scarcity who would need to work or risk their life? Lol. Totally ridiculous.

And on the tv show x files, mulder and scully are always reluctant to take any vacation. And when they do they look for excuses to cut it short and go back to work. lol. Is that what a normal person does? Why would i want to do that? Because everyone else does that? Im confused.

The biggest hypocrisy in america is this:

1. You are told that you are a free person living in a free country in the land of the free. So you are the master of your destiny and independent and free to make your own decisions. You have unique freedoms in america that others abroad dont have. And many american soldiers died for your special freedoms.

2. However, you are required to conform to everything such as your society and culture and especially your employer and the company you work for. You are required to obey thousands of rules. You are required to agree with all the teachings in your culture too. And you are required to think like everyone else too. You are expected to believe everything the government and media says, even when they lie. And you must agree with your culture and nation in all matters and support all wars your government starts. You are expected to have a herd mentality. Your life has no purpose or value unless you are serving a corporation or government or organization, and giving them your whole life, heart and soul, not just your labor. And die for your job in the line of duty if necessary. In other words, your job is your God, literally.

Also:
1. You have free speech under the first amendment. It is your right.
2. However, you must say things that are politically correct and within narrow boundaries. You cannot say anything taboo or controversial. You are free to do what we say and free to think what we tell you. You are free but you cannot act freely.

What the f**k? Is that the biggest contradiction in the world or what?! I cant believe no one questions this openly since its a huge fundamental contradiction and discrepancy.

Do you ever think about this? If so doesnt it piss you off? Its one of the biggest hypocrisies in the world and makes no logical sense. You are told you are free but you are not allowed to be free! Wtf?! (Scratching head) yet very few people realize this or complain about it. They act like this is normal and natural.

Instead i believe one should follow Joseph Campbell's advice to "follow your bliss". But that doesnt mean to do whatever makes you happy, because happiness is fleeting and comes in cycles mixed with unhappiness, just as the ying yang circle depicts. It means to do what makes you feel ALIVE and gives you a deep sense of purpose and meaning in your soul. When you do that your energy will seem limitless because you are doing what you love and are passionate about so you look forward to everyday and never dread mondays.

Thats what i believe we are meant to do. Its totally stupid to teach everyone that their life has no value unless enslaved to a corporation or organization or government or military service, where one is expected to give their all for, including their life if necessary. Thats so stupid.

After all whats the point of making a living, if you have no life or freedom to make a living for? It makes no sense and is self refuting. Why dont they come out and tell the truth, that work is enslavement, not an opportunity?

Furthermore you have to work to impress the job interviewer so that he or she can approve you to be their slave so you can give away your life in servitude. Its a totally insane and nonsensical system.

Yet chinese and americans never protest this or think about it. Except for a few hippies and bohemians here and there.

Dont you find all this insulting too? Doesnt it piss you off when you think about it?

Its also a trap when society tells you that selfishness is always bad and unselfishness is always good and a virtue. Thats a very dangerous teaching that tries to trick you into giving up your life to serve whatever corporation or organization wants to use you for their agenda. Thats the real reason society tells u to be unselfish, so you will live to serve others and allow yourself to be used by the elite or government. It sounds virtuous but in reality its a way for them to control you and make you feel obligated to your "duty".

Now I'm not saying that one should be an inconsiderate selfish bastard and be rude to others without consideration. I'm just saying that its better to be selfish and follow whatever your bliss is and do what your soul wants, as long as it makes you feel alive and gives your life meaning and purpose.

That kind of selfishness has a virtue and is authentic and being true to your soul and integrity. It's better than giving up your life to a corporation or government because you are tricked into believing that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving others. Especially to serve a government that lies to you and has a nefarious agenda, and does not represent the american people and is run by a cartel of criminals with no regard for the Constitution. No way jose. So many people have lost their lives to such a deception, e.g. such as during the Vietnam war or Iraq war.

Everyone ought to read "the virtue of selfishness" by ayn rand, and "how i found freedom in an unfree world" by harry brown - specifically the chapter "the unselfishness trap" - to counteract and see through such societal brainwashing by the elite.

Sorry for the long rant. Doesn't this piss you off too when you think about it?
It's sad. People brainwash you into thinking you live in the "Land of the Free" and then treat you like you're in North Korea. And it is sickening when people expect you to die for your job, including blowing through a railroad crossing when the gates are down and getting hit by a train on the way to work. And obviously you are expected to obey every rule, whether right or wrong, while at work, hence the notion of "even when the boss is wrong, the boss is still right."
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by Pinayhunter »

I completely agree. Fortunately I’m on track to retire in my early-mid 30’s with about $350k CAD in the bank. Sure, it won’t be a glamorous retirement, but that just goes to show how desperate I am to escape this plantation.

Looking back, I would’ve done things much differently. Why piss away your mental and physical prime doing boring, stressful jobs? What’s the end game here? You want to be like Scrooge McDuck, sitting on a big pile of money when you’re too old to enjoy it?

We should be doing the opposite. Work as little possible when we’re young - focusing on God, romance, fitness, hobbies - and then plow the field when we’re old, arthritic, and senile. Why give your best years to an employer?

I wouldn’t even get excited if I won the lottery at this point. I just want my TIME back.
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you aren't given a choice about it?! It's stupid and forced!

Post by IraqVet2003 »

jamesbond wrote:
April 22nd, 2018, 6:56 am
A recent Gallup Poll indicated that 70% of Americans feel emotionally disconnected from their jobs. While data supports that Americans are working longer hours for less money and fewer benefits, CEOs continue to get giant bonuses and salaries.

Great video!!
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by flowerthief00 »

There are many millionaires who donate their money to causes that interest them. Scientific projects, humanitarian endeavors...there is a lot of good that one can accomplish in the world if one can manage to become rich.

But if you are not going to do that, if you are just going to spend your riches on yourself...no, you are not better off becoming rich. That more money (beyond a certain point) does not make a person any happier is a well-known fact, even a scientific one. So there is a lot to be said for the minimalist lifestyle. You don't need to own a home. You don't need to own a car. You may not need to own any kind of vehicle, depending on where you live.

And we should be discouraging these things on the basis of their environmental impact.
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by jamesbond »

Good video regarding America's obsession with working.

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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by Winston »

There's something I never understood about America and work. If I have no girlfriend, no social life, no fun, no good times, no romance, etc., why would I be motivated work hard at a job if I'm not happy? If I at least had a great girlfriend who treated me good and made me happy and was loyal to me, then yeah I might be motivated to work hard at a job. But if I don't, why would I be motivated to work hard and toil at a job just for the sake of it? I've never understood that. I've always wondered about it, even in the 1990s.

But of course, this question is taboo and makes you look like a freak, so I never dared to ask it. Especially in person where there is social pressure to conform and be like everyone else. Did any of you ever wonder this too? America doesn't seem to have no answer to it. The culture expects you to work hard and live for your job as if your job was your identity and purpose for living, and that's that, no questions. I hate that. Really I hate it. Why?

If America was an environment where making friends came naturally, and I could date girls easily (like you see in the movies) and could get a steady high quality girlfriend anytime I want, then yeah I could be motivated to work hard and smile at work and act like I'm glad to be there. But if America won't even give you a decent dating or social life at all, not even a little, then what's the point? I don't get it.

Nothing is worse than being depressed and trying to work hard at the same time, just for a paycheck to spend on your bills when you aren't even happy to wake up and be alive. Totally SUCKS.

Can America as an entity answer my questions?
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by jamesbond »

Winston wrote:
August 1st, 2018, 11:59 pm
You know one thing that really pisses me off about america is that the system considers that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving a corporation or government agency with your whole life and willing to die for it if necessary. Dying for your job or for the government (aka public service) is considered an honor or virtue. Isnt that sickening?

The thing is you cant just work for a paycheck. They expect you to live to work literally and give your heart, mind and soul for your job and make it the most important thing in the universe. And even sacrificing your life for your job if necessary. They show that on TV too as a good thing. And on TV everyone acts like they dont want a vacation from their job and dont know how to take one, as though that were normal.

We are brainwashed into thinking working and making money is all that matters in life. This starts when we are young (in grade school) and continues though out our lives.

We are taught in America that what is most important is, "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of a Paycheck." :roll:
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by Winston »

Also keep in mind that there are dire consequences to attaching your identity and self-esteem to your job, as if your work or form of slavery, defines you and your purpose for living. One bad consequence is that when Americans lose their job, some of them commit suicide because they have lost their identity and no longer wish to live. That's not good of course. America should change this, but they never do. That's what I hate about it.

Here's a quote by Winston Wu:

"Just because you can choose your form of slavery (your job and work), doesn't make you free."

That should be made into a meme. lol
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Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by Tsar »

Winston wrote:
May 29th, 2021, 6:32 pm
Also keep in mind that there are dire consequences to attaching your identity and self-esteem to your job, as if your work or form of slavery, defines you and your purpose for living. One bad consequence is that when Americans lose their job, some of them commit suicide because they have lost their identity and no longer wish to live. That's not good of course. America should change this, but they never do. That's what I hate about it.

Here's a quote by Winston Wu:

"Just because you can choose your form of slavery (your job and work), doesn't make you free."

That should be made into a meme. lol
I agree... being in America is terrible because I am treated like a slave and all Americans think that only Americans live in America...Well...even Slaves get treated better than I do in America...

And my pompous rich relatives would literally walk over my body if I were dying on the sidewalk...
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Re: Why is work a religion in America but you aren't given a choice about it?! That's stupid and forced!

Post by Outcast9428 »

kavaking wrote:
January 2nd, 2018, 2:44 pm
Winston wrote:
January 1st, 2018, 10:11 pm
Did you guys know that in Japan, the corporation or company you work for is like your God, and the colleagues are like your family? Such a relationship in Japan is supposed to be lifelong. So it's a lifelong relationship. And you are expected to be glad to work 15 hour days for the company and give them your all. In return you get good benefits of course such as full healthcare, pensions, good salaries and stuff. But it's not worth it if you have no freedom or free time at all to enjoy your life. It's a total subservient relationship and you are supposed to love it and cherish it as your own God and family. lol. It's utterly insane.

My point is that being a workaholic or living to work should be a free choice, if someone loves their job so much that they want to live and breathe it, that should be their CHOICE. It shouldn't be an obligation or expectation as though that were the law of the universe. lol. That's stupid. Of course, if you are doing what you love and doing work that you are passionate about, that would be easy to put your all into. But I don't think most Americans are doing what they love, they just pretend to because American culture requires you to feign positivity at all times, even if it's fake. So they have to pretend to love their job because one must act positive at all times in America. It's a rule and religion.

Also, America is seen as the world. There's no life outside of America so leaving America isn't an option to even consider. So even alternative media and truthers never mention that the option to leave America even exists. Very weird.
Japan is a great country. I was in Tokyo in 2009. A lot of families there have worked for the same company for generations. In other words, if your grandfather and father worked at the Pepsi plant in Tokyo, chances are high that you'll be working there as well. You can get in the company just on the strength of your name alone. Winston is right about the work life balance there. Its terrible. A news woman at NHK died recently because she worked 159 hours of overtime. She was found clutched to her cell phone.
In some ways I actually like that about Japan...

Don't get me wrong, I am definitely opposed to workaholic cultures. I don't believe in working insane numbers of hours and I definitely dislike this mentality of "your job is your life and the most important thing in life." I believe the healthiest cultures emphasize marriage and family as the most important thing in life.

But what I like about what you referred to with Japan is this sense of family tradition. That feeling is something I think is lost on a lot of Americans. Americans don't really believe in family tradition much anymore so they look at these sorts of things as restricting their freedom rather than feeling like it is an honor to work the same job as your father did. I personally am an extreme supporter/believer of tradition and what you mentioned about working for the same company as your father, and your grandfather worked for... It reminds me of the Medieval guild system but applied to the modern day instead. A big reason why I like Japanese culture is their greater respect for tradition, family, and the greater prevalence of old world lifestyles/beliefs then American culture seems to have. I like the idea of growing up, knowing what company you're gonna work for in your future, possibly getting to work for your own father, and going into a company that already seems to know you.

The reason why Japan has such a major work culture is because their economy needs it unfortunately. Japan is trying their hardest to preserve their traditions and one of the traditions they want to preserve is the feminine ideal. To have a wife who stays at home, cooks, cleans, and takes care of the kids. Her husband as the provider of the family. You can see in Japanese entertainment how much they value traditional femininity and that's another thing I love about Japanese culture. I think with Japan at least, there is more of an effort put in by society to make sure guys can get a girlfriend/wife then there is in America. The government funds matchmaking programs and often times, bosses in companies try to set their workers up with one another. Japan also has matchmaking parties where an equal number of guys and girls meet and try to find a relationship. The problem with US society is that US society not only expects you to dedicate yourself to your job, but to dedicate yourself to it, to the exclusion of even having a romantic life. US society glorifies men and women who stay single their entire lives and do nothing but work. In Japan, there are some people who are like this, but at least being that extreme of a workaholic is not glorified.

There's a movie I think you guys should watch called "Ten Promises to my Dog." Its a Japanese movie and it really criticizes workaholic mentalities and emphasizes family values instead.

It seems that Japanese society is having a harder and harder time keeping up with this though and is pushing more women into the workforce. I hope that robot technology improves soon in Japanese society and they put a lot more robots into the workforce so that machines and robots can shoulder most of the work burden, most Japanese women can go back to traditional homemaker roles and the men won't have to work so hard in order to provide for their family.

As far as American work culture goes, I agree with you @Winston that I can't stand how you're supposed to go into an interview acting as if this job is my life purpose. Its like they all expect you to go in, kiss their ass and be like "I've always wanted to be this." When the truth is that I just thought of it about a month or two ago as a good source of income lol. Companies don't want you to admit that that's all it really is to you though. But I wish I could be more honest and say the only reason I'm really doing it is for the money.

Now if our culture looked more like Japan's on the other hand as the person I quoted mentioned... I would actually be able to genuinely tell my employer that I want to work for the same company my father worked for.
MrMan
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Joined: July 30th, 2014, 7:52 pm

Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by MrMan »

Winston wrote:
August 1st, 2018, 11:59 pm
You know one thing that really pisses me off about america is that the system considers that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving a corporation or government agency with your whole life and willing to die for it if necessary. Dying for your job or for the government (aka public service) is considered an honor or virtue. Isnt that sickening?

The thing is you cant just work for a paycheck. They expect you to live to work literally and give your heart, mind and soul for your job and make it the most important thing in the universe. And even sacrificing your life for your job if necessary. They show that on TV too as a good thing. And on TV everyone acts like they dont want a vacation from their job and dont know how to take one, as though that were normal.
First world problems. We have a 40 hour work week for laborers. And those with decent jobs (not retail, etc.) can live on that. Back in the old days, farmers could work much longer hours, especially in the summer. During the industrial revolution, children would go to work before sunup and come home after sundown. Kids working in the mines got rickets from not having enough vitamin D.

We live a cushy existence in the western world with an economy so developed, government safety nets., etc. so that we can live without having to work the long hours it takes to eek out an existence from the ground by subsistence farming. I hear hunter-gatherers could have some times of lounging around if they have enough meat for the moment, but then they have to get to work looking for food and berries when they get hungry again. It's an unstable life. Homeless people may not have to work all the time-- but they are homeless.

In the US, owning your own business is reasonably respectable. Real estate agents have some level of independence over their schedule. People who contract to build-- screw in sheet rock in homes, plumbers, etc., can have their own businesses. They do not have to slave away for a corporation, but they have to work if they want to survive.

Why should someone support you if you don't work for it? If you are old and weak and they are kin or kind-hearted, it makes more sense. But why should the government or other people support someone who does not work hard?
Even on star trek and the x files, everyone is a workaholic that doesnt want any vacation time too. Is that insane or what? Even in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and no one has to pay bills, everyone is still a workaholic willing to risk their lives to serve the federation and die for it if necessary. Lol. As if that were a good thing. Wtf?!

In star trek the next generation when the enterprise takes shore leave, commander riker usually says "im not good at organizing my vacation time. Something usually comes up to cut my shore leave short." As if he prefers no shore leave and prefers to work 24/7. Lol. Wtf? Why does everyone on TV say that? Is that normal to want to work 24/7? Especially in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and people dont need to pay bills? Lol. Why would anyone be a workaholic in a universe where money is no longer used? That makes no sense. Whats their incentive to become a slave to the federation and die for it if necessary and risk their life everyday? Because they got nothing better to do? I would be exploring the universe or playing around in the holodeck. In a world without scarcity who would need to work or risk their life? Lol. Totally ridiculous.
On Star Trek, it seems like some of the characters spend half their time playing on the holodeck, which can recreate a virtual version of the really cool vacation planets. Riker probably spent his shore leave time in the holodeck talking to that 6 he was so crazy about and playing the tuba. When the camera is not around, those Star Trek folks are probably goofing off all the time.
Outcast9428
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1913
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 12:43 am

Re: Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

Post by Outcast9428 »

MrMan wrote:
June 7th, 2021, 7:46 am
Winston wrote:
August 1st, 2018, 11:59 pm
You know one thing that really pisses me off about america is that the system considers that your life has no purpose or meaning unless you are serving a corporation or government agency with your whole life and willing to die for it if necessary. Dying for your job or for the government (aka public service) is considered an honor or virtue. Isnt that sickening?

The thing is you cant just work for a paycheck. They expect you to live to work literally and give your heart, mind and soul for your job and make it the most important thing in the universe. And even sacrificing your life for your job if necessary. They show that on TV too as a good thing. And on TV everyone acts like they dont want a vacation from their job and dont know how to take one, as though that were normal.
First world problems. We have a 40 hour work week for laborers. And those with decent jobs (not retail, etc.) can live on that. Back in the old days, farmers could work much longer hours, especially in the summer. During the industrial revolution, children would go to work before sunup and come home after sundown. Kids working in the mines got rickets from not having enough vitamin D.

We live a cushy existence in the western world with an economy so developed, government safety nets., etc. so that we can live without having to work the long hours it takes to eek out an existence from the ground by subsistence farming. I hear hunter-gatherers could have some times of lounging around if they have enough meat for the moment, but then they have to get to work looking for food and berries when they get hungry again. It's an unstable life. Homeless people may not have to work all the time-- but they are homeless.

In the US, owning your own business is reasonably respectable. Real estate agents have some level of independence over their schedule. People who contract to build-- screw in sheet rock in homes, plumbers, etc., can have their own businesses. They do not have to slave away for a corporation, but they have to work if they want to survive.

Why should someone support you if you don't work for it? If you are old and weak and they are kin or kind-hearted, it makes more sense. But why should the government or other people support someone who does not work hard?
Even on star trek and the x files, everyone is a workaholic that doesnt want any vacation time too. Is that insane or what? Even in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and no one has to pay bills, everyone is still a workaholic willing to risk their lives to serve the federation and die for it if necessary. Lol. As if that were a good thing. Wtf?!

In star trek the next generation when the enterprise takes shore leave, commander riker usually says "im not good at organizing my vacation time. Something usually comes up to cut my shore leave short." As if he prefers no shore leave and prefers to work 24/7. Lol. Wtf? Why does everyone on TV say that? Is that normal to want to work 24/7? Especially in the star trek universe where money doesnt exist and people dont need to pay bills? Lol. Why would anyone be a workaholic in a universe where money is no longer used? That makes no sense. Whats their incentive to become a slave to the federation and die for it if necessary and risk their life everyday? Because they got nothing better to do? I would be exploring the universe or playing around in the holodeck. In a world without scarcity who would need to work or risk their life? Lol. Totally ridiculous.
On Star Trek, it seems like some of the characters spend half their time playing on the holodeck, which can recreate a virtual version of the really cool vacation planets. Riker probably spent his shore leave time in the holodeck talking to that 6 he was so crazy about and playing the tuba. When the camera is not around, those Star Trek folks are probably goofing off all the time.
If we are talking about the 18th and 19th centuries then you would be correct. However historians say that the working hours of the industrial revolution are actually an anomaly considering the past 1,000 years. Go to the 12th or 13th century and the average work week of a medieval peasant was about 45 hours a week so not very different from ours today (although working this long outside in the heat would be significantly more uncomfortable than working in an office).

However if you go to the 15th and 16th centuries, Europe was experiencing tremendous prosperity at the time. Wages had doubled by 1450 compared to 1350 as a result of the Black Death killing off a large percentage of the serf class and poor peasantry making farm labor a lot more valuable. With the doubling of wages, peasants also were not forced to live on the lord’s land anymore and therefore did not have to pay taxes to their lord. Monarchs back then did not levy taxes on the commoners so the only taxes that 75% of the commoners in 1450 would have needed to pay was a 10% tithe to the church.

As a result of this prosperity and improvements in agricultural productivity. Your average worker in 1450 only needed to work 20, 8 hour days to feed one person for a whole year. A family of six only needed 120 days of work to feed and food back then would have been your primary expense. As a result of this, your average peasant in the 1400s only worked about 27-28 hours per week. Although in practice it would have looked more like 150-210 days of work at about 6-8 hours on each of those days. Even then, peasants were known to take naps in the middle of their shifts or leave work to get a drink at the tavern.

Overall history is a lot more varied then it’s made out to be. Some eras of history people suffered a lot but other eras they may have been even better off than people today are. Course a 15th century peasant was not as engaged in consumer culture as people today are but that might actually be a positive because people back then got more happiness through their relationships with each other instead of materialism.
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