Why forced tipping/gratuity in America is unethical, illogical, & infringes on free will!

[dancilley]

What exactly is "modern scum"? That sounds like a good name for these people though.

I have a lot of experience going to restaurants, and I got so sick and tired of them getting my order wrong, that I decided to never dine in a restaurant ever again, and that was well over a year ago.

The only reason I keep eating from restaurants (take out) is because my female loves restaurants and buys me the food.

But what has happened to customer service? Why do they mess up the order SO often? Why do they not put side orders in the bag, even though the receipt says I ordered them? Why do they not put utensils in the bag? Why can't they be more organized and efficient and accurate? It's not that complicated, is it? I think in some situations, they mess up the order on purpose just because they are terrible people, and in other situations, if it is a Mexican restaurant, they mess it up because they hate anyone who is not Hispanic.

[Winston]

@fschmidt since you believe most people are scum too, do you tip waiters in America that you think are scum? lol. If not, do they chase you out of the restaurant? What about take out food?

I just got back from a restaurant. Tipping is a reasonable custom, but I let my wife deal with it. I wouldn't go to restaurants at all if I had to deal with the modern scum there, but thankfully my wife deals with the people. Today, as usual, the waiter was totally incompetent. My wife got angry but I told her that the waiter is simply modern scum and is therefore mentally retarded, so one can't reasonably expect good service, so no reason to get angry.

Why is tipping a reasonable custom? What's the basis? Why tip for basic service? Why give EXTRA money for no reason to someone who is just doing their job? What's the logic? I've asked this many times but no one has an answer. That means it's an American SCAM right? So why conform to a scam?

Also, why do scumbags deserve tips? Also, if tipping is "reasonable" then how come the other 200 countries of the world don't require tipping? Israel probably doesn't force you to tip too.

Also isn't it a violation of free will to make tipping obligatory?

[Winston]

What exactly is "modern scum"? That sounds like a good name for these people though.

I have a lot of experience going to restaurants, and I got so sick and tired of them getting my order wrong, that I decided to never dine in a restaurant ever again, and that was well over a year ago.

The only reason I keep eating from restaurants (take out) is because my female loves restaurants and buys me the food.

But what has happened to customer service? Why do they mess up the order SO often? Why do they not put side orders in the bag, even though the receipt says I ordered them? Why do they not put utensils in the bag? Why can't they be more organized and efficient and accurate? It's not that complicated, is it? I think in some situations, they mess up the order on purpose just because they are terrible people, and in other situations, if it is a Mexican restaurant, they mess it up because they hate anyone who is not Hispanic.

Is it because you are in Skid Row? Usually they don't mess up my order but food quality in the US isn't what it used to be. It's mediocre now. Plus restaurant prices are crazy now. 14 dollars and up for every plate. Plus tax and tip. A total ripoff. You'll never see that in Asia.

[Voyager1]

I was in a Taco Bell recently. I was paying by bank card and the terminal gave me the option to add a tip and they don't make it easy to decline. Why should I add a tip in taco bell? I am going to the front counter, paying and collecting the food. They are not providing table service. It's ridiculous and you are made to feel bad if you don't give a tip.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

That's why I don't eat inside the restaurants. Tipping feels like a rip off and feels like the owner is passing the responsibility to the customer for paying his employees wages. I just order take outs.

[Pixel--Dude]

That's why I don't eat inside the restaurants. Tipping feels like a rip off and feels like the owner is passing the responsibility to the customer for paying his employees wages. I just order take outs.

I agree with you. If a company can't afford to pay its workers a decent living wage then that company should not exist. With the overpriced shit some of these restaurants sell you'd think they could just pay a living wage.

[Natural_Born_Cynic]

That's why I don't eat inside the restaurants. Tipping feels like a rip off and feels like the owner is passing the responsibility to the customer for paying his employees wages. I just order take outs.

I agree with you. If a company can't afford to pay its workers a decent living wage then that company should not exist. With the overpriced shit some of these restaurants sell you'd think they could just pay a living wage.

And most foods are not that good anyway, they are deep fried, high on sodium, sugar, butter, msg, trans fat, etc. Total caloric nightmare.
And yeah, I think the owners are just greedy assholes for buying cheap ingredients, overcharging for the food and making the customers to cover the
waiter's wages. It is just stupid, illogical, unethical, and plays on people's free will. You don't have to tip in Europe and Asia, why America?

[fschmidt]

Why is tipping a reasonable custom? What's the basis? Why tip for basic service? Why give EXTRA money for no reason to someone who is just doing their job? What's the logic? I've asked this many times but no one has an answer. That means it's an American SCAM right? So why conform to a scam?

The quality of waiters varies a lot. Tipping is reasonable because customers can pay waiters what customers think the waiter is worth. This gives waiters an incentive to improve.

Also, why do scumbags deserve tips? Also, if tipping is "reasonable" then how come the other 200 countries of the world don't require tipping? Israel probably doesn't force you to tip too.

Most of humanity is retarded, so I don't care what they do. America used to be an exception, a reasonable country. But that is over.

When I did tip, I tipped bad waiters $0.02 which I think was useful feedback for those waiters.

Also isn't it a violation of free will to make tipping obligatory?

Yes

[Winston]

I was in a Taco Bell recently. I was paying by bank card and the terminal gave me the option to add a tip and they don't make it easy to decline. Why should I add a tip in taco bell? I am going to the front counter, paying and collecting the food. They are not providing table service. It's ridiculous and you are made to feel bad if you don't give a tip.

Are you sure it was taco bell? The taco bell here doesn't do that. They are supposed to be uniform and consistent. As far as I know Subway and Pizza Hut do that. When I click 0 or no tip on the credit card machine I wonder if the staff then spit on my food or make it any less. They also have a tip jar at the register. I wonder what percentage of people actually give them a tip just to take out food. I guess the kitchen staff deserve a tip just because it's an American custom? It's very pathetic. America seems to have no shame nowadays.

[Yohan]

I just got back from a restaurant. Tipping is a reasonable custom.....

Why is tipping a reasonable custom? What's the basis? Why tip for basic service? Why give EXTRA money for no reason to someone who is just doing their job? ....

.... if tipping is "reasonable" then how come the other 200 countries of the world don't require tipping?

I am just back from Thailand and again in Japan.

Japan is a tipless society. Tips are nowhere expected, this includes restaurants/waiters, taxi drivers etc...
Staff of restaurants and hotels which deal with many visitors from the States get some instruction from the management how to react politely when foreigners offer a tip - as unexperienced Japanese staff might feel even offended, feeling treated like a beggar.

-----

Thailand is not against tips in general but it is never done in such an aggressive way as in USA.

There is no justification for demanding tips with importunity from customers, it's not 'reasonable'.

Usually in restaurants the waiter will come with the bill, you give the money in an envelope and staff will bring back your exact change in the same envelope.

It is up to you to leave some tip inside or not, nobody really cares, but many customers take out of the envelope the bills only and let the coins inside.
The envelope on the table will be collected by the staff AFTER you left the restaurant. Most customers give rarely more than USD 1,- (=32 baht) per person.

Some other restaurants have a tip-box near the cashier next to the entrance, up to you to give something or not when you leave the restaurant.

Same with taxi drivers, young part-time workers filling cars with gasoline at a gas station or washing cars and similar low paid workers like delivery staff - but Thai customers often give them small tips by refusing to accept small change like coins or 20-baht bills.

[Winston]

Some great articles on why you should not tip in America and why it hurts everyone.

https://www.thrillist.com/eat/nation/wh ... not-to-tip

https://slate.com/business/2013/07/abol ... rants.html

[Winston]

New video rant I made about forced tipping in America and why it's wrong and illogical and a violation of free will.

[Voyager1]

@Winston I disagree with you a bit here. No one is forcing you to go to a restaurant. You can just prepare your meals at home or go to some fast food or street food place where tipping is not expected or required.

Tipping is part of the restaurant experience IMO. What is wrong with tipping your server if they go the extra mile for you such as making good menu recommendations or bringing your food to you quickly while it's still hot?

I've been in regions of the FSU where tipping is not a custom and the workers there have a frown on their face and just sort of do a mediocre job in bringing you your food and taking your order. It's not a great experience.

I generally tip about 10% on the bill when I'm in a restaurant setting with a $5 minimum. Again no one is forcing you to go there. There are ways around having to tip like ordering take out. Some establishments offer a drive through window where tipping is not expected.

Again you are going into a place experiencing a nice ambiance and service so tipping is appropriate in some cases. It's just the decent and right thing to do.

[Winston]

@Winston I disagree with you a bit here. No one is forcing you to go to a restaurant. You can just prepare your meals at home or go to some fast food or street food place where tipping is not expected or required.

Tipping is part of the restaurant experience IMO. What is wrong with tipping your server if they go the extra mile for you such as making good menu recommendations or bringing your food to you quickly while it's still hot?

I've been in regions of the FSU where tipping is not a custom and the workers there have a frown on their face and just sort of do a mediocre job in bringing you your food and taking your order. It's not a great experience.

I generally tip about 10% on the bill when I'm in a restaurant setting with a $5 minimum. Again no one is forcing you to go there. There are ways around having to tip like ordering take out. Some establishments offer a drive through window where tipping is not expected.

Again you are going into a place experiencing a nice ambiance and service so tipping is appropriate in some cases. It's just the decent and right thing to do.

That's kind of narrow. So if I don't want to tip I can't go to restaurants like I do in Asia? Just because of a stupid FORCED custom that violates free will and has no logic or basis behind it?!

Of course in the FSU the workers look grouchy and unhappy to be there. That's true in the FSU banks too. That's how FSU people are, they don't like being slaves and don't like putting out fake smiles, they prefer to show you how they really feel, because they are authentic. It has nothing to do with tips.

Go to China or Japan or Taiwan and you will see that the waiters are glad to be there and give you fast efficient service even though they are not getting any tips. Why? If tipping is so natural and normal then why don't all the other 200 countries FORCE you to give them like America does?! Think about it.

[Yohan]

Tipping is part of the restaurant experience IMO. What is wrong with tipping your server if they go the extra mile for you such as making good menu recommendations or bringing your food to you quickly while it's still hot?

Here in Japan for sure, tipping is NOT a part of the restaurant experience.
It's also not a part of experience of any kind of service industry I know in Japan, like delivery of items or food, taxi drivers, car wash, porters in hotels etc. etc. and even not for ladies of the nightlife. Prices are regulated.

While I see no problem about tipping in general, I see a problem with aggressive demanding of tips from customers as it is the case in the USA - I never experienced that anywhere else.

The reason is maybe that in USA there is no good protection for the worker and no minimum salary for such service staff.

On the other side, US-citizens are indeed known to be 'unusual generous', to give money away even for no good reason to unknown people - for example GoFundMe, or give some money to homeless people even if they didn't ask for help etc.
Even stories about a friendly waitress who got a USD 1000,- tip etc. etc.

Still however this does not justify aggressive requests of tips from customers.

My experiences in USA as a tourist (already long time ago, but I think nothing changed):

I had a meal with a Japanese-American man but the place was not so nice as it looked like from outside, food was poor and staff doing less than the minimum you expect from them.
We paid the bill with a zero tip. After leaving the restaurant two staff members followed us in the street, blocked our way and were asking us 'did you pay' 'did you forget anything'? - We got even some abusive remarks, as we insisted we paid the bill but with a zero tip, and told them better consider to improve your food and service.

Got a taxi, driver told us it's USD 20,-. showed me also a list with the rates. After arrival he showed me another list and told me it's USD 26,- because of luggage and more than 3 passengers and even insisted on a tip, totally USD 30,-.

In a hotel, I was asking for a trolley to bring my two suitcases up to the hotel room by myself, but I was told the trolleys in the lobby are only for use with the porters. It took the porter 30 minutes to bring them up, asking straight for a tip, otherwise he would dump them in front of the elevator next to our room, I gave him USD 5,- and he said something like 'not enough' but anyway he carried the 2 suitcases into our hotel room.

Visited a friend in his house, he just ordered some delivery and food and it arrived quickly - my impression surprisingly quickly. He gave the delivery man USD 20,- - Isn't that a bit pricey I asked. He told me, what shall I do? If he doesn't give a tip like that to the delivery man, all what he ordered would be thrown just in front of the door during the next 3 hours or so...

I understand this is the custom or the way of life in USA, but I am inclined to agree with Winston, that such a 'forced' tipping is indeed unethical and illogical.