Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.
View Active Topics View Your Posts Latest 100 Topics FAQ Topics Mobile Friendly Theme
Discuss and talk about any general topic.
2 posts • Page 1 of 1
"Their Own Wayâ€ (MGTOW) concept. To be honest, I found the idea a little bit threatening and kind of scary. As a non-feminist, I fully understand that women are very dependent on men, even if itâ€™s just Big Daddy government. If large numbers of men bail out, women are in serious trouble. This is scary for a woman to contemplate if she is honest with herself and drops the false bravado for a moment. My knee jerk reaction was that men should not â€œgo their own wayâ€; they should continue to take care of women but just somehow make women behave with gratitude and humility.
However, as I have spent some time on sites like Dalrock, I have had the opportunity to read more personal anecdotes about decent Christian men whose wives divorced them due to congenital discontentedness, destroying their husbandsâ€™ and childrenâ€™s lives in the process. Some of these stories are truly heart-breaking, but Iâ€™ve learned never to express sympathy to these men; they donâ€™t want sympathy. They donâ€™t want to be pitied. What they wanted was for their ex-wives to honor the commitments they made about â€œuntil death do us partâ€. That such behavior is perpetrated against these men not by supposed feminists but by women who are ostensibly Christian women, who ought to be about the business of the Lord, makes it particularly galling.
Also, Iâ€™ve done some reading in what I think of as the â€œspinstersphereâ€, which are blogs written by childless, usually single, women in their 40s. Iâ€™ve even tried conversing with some of these women, gently trying to get them to see that promiscuity and careerism in oneâ€™s 20s has the potential to lead to involuntary childless spinsterhood (I didnâ€™t put it in those terms, of course), but they deny that this was the cause of their problems. One woman told me that even given her current situation, she feels that it would have been ideal to explore her sexuality until age 32 and then get married. It was like reading a manosphere parody; after 15 years of seeking out alpha c*ck, she really thought her beta provider husband should just materialize. The only response a man should have to such a woman is to get away from her as quickly as possible.
Is it permissible for the Christian man to choose never to marry? In 1 Corinthians 7:32-34, Paul writes:
32 I want you to be free from anxieties. The unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how to please the Lord. 33 But the married man is anxious about worldly things, how to please his wife, 34 and his interests are divided.
It seems to me that it is not wrong for him to remain single so long as he is able to keep himself free from sexual sin. Given the misandric divorce laws and other legal hazards a man may find himself in if he engages with women, I would say that I now understand and even support the idea of Christian men going their own way.
What I wonder is this: do men want to remain unmarried and childless? I think the vast majority of women desperately would like to marry and have children, but they seem not to understand how their choices preclude this. If you read in the spinstersphere, you quickly see how sad, bitter, lonely, and lost the women seem. Itâ€™s hard not to feel sorry for them. One woman wrote that since she is clearly not going to be having children, she has realized that she does not know what her life is for. Would men feel this empty if they did not marry or have children?
Iâ€™m particularly interested in hearing from male readers, both married and single. If youâ€™re married, would it have been okay with you to remain single? If youâ€™re single, is it misery or is it okay? If youâ€™re divorced, do you want to remarry or are you GYOW?"
"Being single and childless is a largely stress-free existence.
There are things about myself I would like to change â€“ and I am working on these.
The idea of being married and/or with children seems like a prison sentence â€¦ and would likely preclude me from changing those things about myself.
I simply do not see the advantage; there is no incentive to marry or have children.
â€œMy knee jerk reaction was that men should not â€œgo their own wayâ€; they should continue to take care of women but just somehow make women behave with gratitude and humility.â€
Understandable that you would initially feel this way. I realize now that the women who will be harmed first and foremost by MGTOW are actually the comparatively few remaining women who would make good wives and mothers, i.e. the ones not deserving of the deprivation.
I hope you now know, that men cannot make women behave with gratitude and humility. There is no way for men to force women to do this. Any such attempt would land a man in prison.
Womanâ€™s nature is to test a manâ€™s dominance; feminists have engineered society so that men may never pass these tests (all masculine dominance is criminalized).
There is literally no way for men to make women behave decently. Hence MGTOW."
"The dirty little secret is that before the inter-webz, men didnâ€™t talk honestly about their marriages or their lives. For one, any leak of information would bring a life devastating retaliation. Secondly, men tend to be self-contained, a little detail that separates a true civilization from an existence of scrounging for fungus and living in a cave.
Iâ€™ve been married for over 20 years even though Iâ€™ve been assaulted, physically and verbally, threatened with divorce and kidnapping, and tormented to the point of giving upâ€¦literallyâ€¦.and my wife is from the good, Christian music loving Baptist side of the street.
My best friend, the ex-pastor, was savaged in court by his good, holy-spirit filled Christian wife and abandoned his 30 year ministry to save his sanity. These arenâ€™t anomalies.
For my male friends who arenâ€™t divorced, their married lives, to the man, bounce between miserable and tolerable. If I was a member of the Chamber of Commerce for Marriage, Iâ€™d spend all my time bribing my miserable married friends to shut them up so they wouldnâ€™t scare away customers.
I have news for all of the good women out there. Men are waking up. I will spend every day of my life warning men. I will warn them, even as my own unholy alliance drags on so I can protect my kids from an insane narcissist. I do this because the courts would dismember me and the state would finish me on the whim of a crazy person.
I have even worse news. ALL, not some, ALL of my Christian married friends talk â€œlikeâ€ this when their wives arenâ€™t around. They donâ€™t know Iâ€™m MGTOW, but what they say is exactly what I say. There is almost ZERO difference. Their wives act almost identically to mine but they treat it as normal. Theyâ€™re blue pill men until their wives drop the hammer.
Iâ€™ll let that sink in.
Short version is,
the jig is up."
"For reference, my ex told me that she had a count of 14. I was a blue pill beta. She divorced me and made false allegations to gain full custody and support payments that have crippled me. She also claimed she had not had an abortion. She claimed to have been faithful yet she was always doubting my faithfulness. She was infertile with me in our marriage but just prior to filing for divorce (in her early 40s) she conceived and miscarried. (I think she was projecting her behavior and deceitful capacity onto me. If she was that way she automatically believed that I was that way. A woman often projects her internal beliefs and personal behavior onto the man because she assumes a man feels and acts the same way.)
Does anyone believe that was her true count? And based on what I have learned about what damages the human heart, red pill thinking and female rationalization there is plenty of behavioral evidence that she had an abortion.
So when a woman has a history of deceit, it is rare that the deceit will cease. She has the power to destroy him and their children and her principles and morals are lacking. A man must be prudent. Relationships built upon dishonesty do not heal by ignoring the deception. The truth must be exposed to light.
Women usually advise other women to snoop and investigate if a woman suspect her husband is cheating but women advocate forgiveness and no investigation of the wife by a man if he has reason to doubt. This exact thing happened at TC when deti was commenting. He left the blog, Brendon left, and shortly after that many of the rest of the men left."
"Iâ€™m an old man now: 68 years. I went my own way in 1978, shortly after my 30th birthday. I had been married and divorced twice before I turned 30. In both instances It was no-fault divorce. In both instances my wife initiated the divorce. In the first instance the precipitating event was her graduating college with an MA in counselling. She was ready to hang out her shingle. I was dispensable. In the second instance, after 5 years of marriage she refused to move with me when my employer wanted to give me a big promotion, more money, better title, many perks and transfer me across country. She could not be that far from her mother. â€” In both instances I was committed to my wife, but I was never head of household. I just never knew it.
I did some serious introspection and observation of colleagues. I concluded that I was not cut out for marriage on what we now call Marriage 2.0. I wanted no part of it.
I focused on career, making a little money, dating a bit, getting laid when I felt like it, indulging my hobbies, enjoying life. Yes, I missed not having a woman in my life. Yes, I missed not having children but the rules had changed from my fatherâ€™s generation to mine. Life goes on.
I retired about 15 years ago. You could say, â€œI called in richâ€. I continue to shun romantic involvements. I enjoy the company of men in similar circumstances as myself. Thereâ€™s a lot of us out here. Some figured it out early, others had it figured out when a spouse passed"