MarcosZeitola wrote: ↑August 27th, 2022, 10:52 pm
Lucas88 wrote: ↑August 27th, 2022, 7:46 pm
I don't think that it's fair to assume that men who never scored with Western women are losers. Some of those men might be but I personally don't think that most of them are. I know cases of guys who are intelligent and successful in most areas of life but still cannot get a woman in their native Western country. Sometimes there is some negative variable such as being on the autistic spectrum or some of them simply haven't learned the social know-how necessary to be attractive to women and are therefore lost when it comes to dating and interacting with the opposite sex. Moreover, certain Western countries such as the UK and the US are not the most fertile grounds for social interaction. If you're a guy on the autistic spectrum or with some other kind of social impairment you might not even be given a chance to practice social skills since those societies tend to automatically exclude people who are socially awkward or a bit different and this could result in further social stagnation. I was having this same conversation with a mutual friend of ours today actually.
This was very much my case and I don't consider myself a loser. I've always had certain gifted traits and pursued higher things but am also on the autistic spectrum and was for the most part unable to socialize in the UK. Most people found me strange. I was always a bit of a loner. And yes, I too was an incel who never scored with any Western woman. However, once I moved to Spain in my early 20s, within two months I was in my first long-term relationship with a highly educated Latina who was just finishing her master's degree at the University of Valencia. At the same time I also made plenty of friends who appreciated my good qualities and showed me a lot of affection. In light of this I came to realize that I was never the "weirdo" that people in the UK dismissed me as. Rather I was a normal person who could flourish socially if given the right opportunities and a suitable environment. Living in Spain was my first experience of a normal country. I'm of the view that the Anglosphere isn't a normal society and that a sizeable subset of people are simply unable to fit in there.
As for Western women, I'm not one of those guys who think that they are all universally awful. I simply recognize that girls from the UK are generally of lower quality in comparison to those of other countries and therefore have little interest in them. I'm not attracted to White women anyway since I only like Latinas and certain other types of dark-skinned women, but in my case my hatred of British culture is so extreme that I would never want to date anybody from that country, not even if hypothetically I found an individual British girl physically attractive. I'm a major Hispanophile and Anglophobe and find British culture just too alien for me to ever be able to accept. I only feel comfortable with Latin and Mediterranean cultures and only want to date women from those regions. I feel too uncomfortable around British females to want to sleep with them. British people are just too weird for my tastes. They just aren't my cup of tea!
You're right to add a bit of much needed nuance to my rather blunt statement. I should have probably rephrased what I said... one can, of course, be socially awkward and not be "a loser" for it. And you do need a leg up sometimes to get started, get in the game so to speak. I think social skills matter a lot, and the best way to ensure your son won't "score" is to be some sort of crazed overly strict helicopter parent who focuses solely on their offspring's academic success as opposed to their social development. I think for this reason countries like Japan have just as many if not more 'herbivore men' as the Western world has 'incels'. The two groups are birds of a feather.
I'm glad you were able to outgrow your predicament in life. Going to another country and starting "fresh" in your early twenties probably helped a lot. Our mutual friend, he's in his thirties now, still waiting to get his chance. As the clock ticks, these things become more and more difficult... a younger man often gets the benefit of the doubt not given to those of us who are older. Its rough being a late bloomer.
But to answer the OP of this thread, no, HappierAbroad is very unlikely to "ruin" anyone's life. Overall I would say its a net positive.
Good discussion here guys.
My opinion: There's really no such thing as a "loser", it's all in a man's head, and learning to score with women is a totally learnable skill. He can learn to use it to lay "Western" women if he wants, but in these times I can also frankly see why certain personalities might like to take a pass on the "West" and go overseas to start with.
Also if you haven't enjoyed much success yet, going to a much better location where that becomes easier and you're allowed to both be happier and also get more "positive reinforcement" there where it's much easier to score makes complete sense, so
@Lucas88 is a great example sharing his story how that worked for him.
A type of completely pointless negativity I wish I did not see so much of from a lot of potentially promising guys in the modern day manosphere though, entirely for their own sake:
Guys who want to succeed with women but haven't yet are seriously not doing themselves or others in the same predicament any favors by saying "PUA/seduction skill is a scam," because that has always included tons of very below average or average (sometimes funny looking) guys with little-to-no "SMV" who went from being frustrated incels who lacked confidence, to being smooth and confident in their ability to lay the women.
They needed to get more knowledge about how women actually work, for one thing, and get red pilled to get a broader picture of women's *actual* (not idealized) sexual behavior, then they need to get the basic masculine mindset basics down so they can convey that sense of relaxed confidence that women like, but which also has an adequate amount of what I've heard politely termed "outcome independence," (in other words: "not giving a !@#$"). You could still be a gentleman to the nines if you want, but there needs to be an element of that in the initial stage. (Note that I'm not saying they couldn't care about or theoretically fall in love later after scoring and building up the actual relationship.
@Outcast9428 might call me on that if he thought that was what I was saying, but I only meant at the beginning when you're still working on laying that particular new woman for the first time. You could afterward go the full traditonial monogamy route, in theory.
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I could elaborate a lot more, but notice to any naysayers that a key point is that I'm talking about other guys who also once considered themselves "losers" but changed and succeeded (not guys who are taller than normal and self-describe as handsome, like me and I believe
@MarcosZeitola here ):
I would agree that if it's just guys who are (or at least we claim to be) tall and better looking than normal, then it makes sense to view any advice we might be dishing out with a grain of salt, since tall guys are sort of notorious for being full of themselves.
But that's my point about pointing out how the PUA/seduction scene's success stories are full of guys who used to think of themselves as losers (including short ones who are not handsome in any classical or idealized sense):
But they all learned the skills and became so much happier that it was like being born into a new life for them even if they retained their core personality.
So were those kind of success stories ever really "losers?" I don't think so, but it's a bit irrelevant whether they'd label themselves that way or not, the important thing is not to just f**k yourself up with pointless defeatism, but to set your goals and find a pathway that works for you to succeed instead.
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