Why 9/11 was ***NOT*** an "inside job"...

[DiscoPro_Joe]

Here's an e-mail I sent to some acquaintances about two years ago. You'll find many good weblinks in it. To make a long story short, I used to believe that 9/11 was an "inside job," but no longer do. I changed my mind about it.

I don't really feel like discussing this subject here, but in response to Winston's plethora of topic threads on this General Discussion forum (regarding the subject of 9/11), I thought I'd post one thread with numerous resources that present the other side, since the "other side" hasn't been given a fair presentation on the Happier Abroad boards. Everyone here should research it and see what you think.

Winston and I briefly debated this topic via e-mail a few weeks ago, but we agreed to disagree.

My prediction here is that he'll reciprocate this post of mine with five to ten times as many of his own, by posting links and articles from conspiracy sites. He'll also probably ask question after question after question after question, but my mind is firmly made up on this issue.

A word about me: I do not support the U.S. government, the U.S. military, nor the War on Terror. I was one of the 8% of Americans (according to the U.S. media) who held an unfavorable view of the President in the weeks following 9/11/01. I believe the U.S. government's imperial foreign policy unintentionally provoked the attacks. And I often do not trust the government.

But ladies and gentlemen...9/11 was not an "inside job."

Below is the e-mail from two years ago. Beneath that you'll find a few more links, plus two extra posts of all the people who'd have to be "in on it" in order for the "inside job" conspiracy theories to be true.

Have fun....



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Subject: 9-11 conspiracy B.S.

I thought I'd send you guys some stuff that's informative, crazy, and humorous. A few years ago, I fell for the silly "inside job" conspiracy claims surrounding the Sept. 11th terrorist attacks, which I no longer believe. It was in September 2003 when I first came across some websites of the so-called "9/11 Truth Movement," which alleges that the U.S. government planned and carried out the attacks. But at that time, very few, if any, counter-websites existed to refute their conspiracy claims, because that "Truth Movement" was in its infancy.

I rarely spoke to anyone about that conspiracy stuff, luckily!

So in September 2006 (three years later), after watching the 9/11-conspiracy documentary Loose Change, I was eager to see what others on the Internet were saying about it. That's when I discovered numerous "debunking" websites that soundly refute their claims, along with the counter-documentary Screw Loose Change. The "Truth" finally got the best of me...replacing it initially with embarrassment, and now with laughter...that I ever believed that stuff. So to entertain you guys (if you're ever bored and have some time on your hands), I've included a bunch of weblinks to both sides of the conspiracy debate. Check it out and let me know what you think of it -- especially of the Loose Change and Screw Loose Change documentaries!

If you ask me, I think it's absolutely hilarious. That's why I still browse the web about this stuff from time to time -- mostly for the humor.

Feel free to forward this e-mail to your friends and family so they can share the info, the tears, and the laughter!

Joe


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"9/11 Truth Movement" sites and videos promoting "inside-job" conspiracy theories:

"9-11 Research"
http://911research.wtc7.net (please view the introductory page first at http://wtc7.net )
Three years ago, this was the "9-11 Truth" site whose claims I fell for hook, line, and sinker.

9-11 Review
http://911review.com

"9-11 Truth"
http://911Truth.org
http://NY911Truth.org

Deception Dollar
http://deceptiondollar.com

Scholars for 9/11 Truth
http://st911.org

Loose Change documentary in its entirety (by Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, and Korey Rowe)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8192753501
This film is considered to be the crown jewel of that movement. You can see the activism it has sparked at their official website http://loosechange911.com


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And now...check out these counter sites and videos:

9-11 Myths
http://911myths.com
An excellent all-around website. The "Who Knew?" page ( http://911myths.com/html/who_knew_.html ) lists the thousands of people who would have to be knowingly involved in the conspiracy. Highly recommended.

Mark Roberts' 9-11 Web Links
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com
This is probably the best counter website I've ever found, created by one of the best 9-11 conspiracy debunkers around, who works as a tour guide in NYC. Links galore to information, videos, awesome humor, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. Don't miss it!

Screw Loose Change documentary in its entirety (by Mark Iradian)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 3129565561
An absolutely awesome counter documentary to the Loose Change film -- taking it apart claim by claim. If you want the biggest informative laugh you've ever had, then you've got to see this one!!! I love it!

Loose Change Viewer Guide (by Mark Roberts)
http://loosechangeguide.com
A very in-depth critique of Loose Change.

"The Truth About the 9/11 Truth Movement" (by Mark Roberts)
http://www.911myths.com/911TruthOrgCritiqueMay06.pdf
An extensive 36-page paper (with pictures galore) in PDF format. Page 16 & 17 talk about the gargantuan undertaking involved in controlled demolitions, and how that could never have happened to the WTC on 9-11.

"9-11 Deniers Speak" video (by Mark Iradian)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 5166640147
Exposes some of the most ridiculous statements, tactics, and antics of the various leaders of the "9/11 Truth Movement." Both sad and humorous at the same time. Boy am I glad that I've jumped off that bandwagon!

"The Ground Zeros" video (by Mark Roberts)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9146&hl=en
Mark Roberts does a humorous video where he confronts the conspiracy theorists who protest at Ground Zero in NYC on Saturdays.

"9/11 Conspiracy Wars" video (by Abby Scott and Ray Rivera)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 3354424113
They confront the silly protestors at Ground Zero. This video is even funnier than "The Ground Zeros," has less screen text, and involves much more commotion. Mark Roberts appears in part of it, too.

"9/11 Deniers Speak -- Ground Zero Edition" video (by Mark Iradian)
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... 5&hl=en-CA
Even better than the first edition. Shows the "Truth Movement" protesting obnoxiously at Ground Zero on 9/11/06. Mark Roberts and Abby Scott show up that day to confront some of the top leaders of the movement. Alex Jones (who appears at the beginning and throughout the video) is probably the arch leader of the "Truth Movement." He's the loudest and most obnoxious "Truther" I've ever seen. He's from Austin, TX, and hosts a conspiracy theorist radio show and several websites, such as prisonplanet.com and infowars.com. And Jason Bermas is one of the guys from Loose Change. A must-see!!!!!!!!!! And again...boy am I glad that I've jumped off that bandwagon!
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OK...here are two more weblinks...

A good web forum to browse (or ask questions) on the subject of 9/11 conspiracy theories: the JREF forum
http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=64

And an excellent video comparing the collapses of the three WTC towers with actual, real-world controlled demolitions:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5585611926

[DiscoPro_Joe]

Here's a short list of all the people who'd have to be "in on it" for the "9/11 inside job" conspiracy to be true:

http://911myths.com/html/who_knew_.html

CIA agent Larry Mitchell for meeting with bin Laden in the months before 9/11, and everyone else in the CIA who knows they're not actually trying to capture him after all
GW Bush and various family members (if you're to believe the relevance of Bush family members being involved with the WTC security company Stratesec)
Condoleezza Rice (if you believe she had enough knowledge to warn Willie Brown that he might be in danger)
John Ashcroft (if you believe he had enough knowledge to decide not to fly commercial flights)
Larry Silverstein (if you believe he knew 9/11 was coming and that there were explosives in WTC7)
The 19 people who played the part of the hijackers, if you believe they were just their to play a role and were never on the planes
Enough senior people at the FBI to block progress in the Moussaoui case, ensure the Phoenix memo was ignored, and more
Ahmad Umar Sheikh for funding the hijackers, General Mahmoud Ahmad for ordering him to do so, and enough of the ISI to get the money and cover up that they were doing this for the US
Everyone who found out about the attacks in advance, and chose not to go into work rather than warn anyone else, and didn't mention this after the fact (thousands of Israelis in the towers, and so on), and everyone who warned them
Everyone responsible for the insider trading before the attacks, the CIA for supposedly monitoring these transactions but doing nothing about them, and enough of the SEC and FBI to ensure that the report was a whitewash
The members of Bush’s secret service team on 9/11 (who presumably either knew in advance that he was safe, or haven’t spoken out about their surprise about what happened subsequently)
The five "dancing Israelis" who filmed the attack "as it happened", and presumably many others in Israeli Intelligence, and enough people in the police or FBI to cover up the details of the case and get them shipped out
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the hijackers cars, bags and so on
Everyone responsible for planting evidence in the WTC wreckage (passports etc), or removing it (WTC black boxes)
Air Traffic Control and flight schedulers at the takeoff airports (to cope with the double flights), and to make sure they didn't follow procedure in reporting the hijackings promptly
Whoever prepared the "special" planes swapped for the real flights, complete with "missile pod" for firing into the towers just before impact, and the ATC and Norad staff who didn't mention the swap
Norad and senior officers working at the day (so they could lie about the war games and their lack of response)
Fighter pilots who deliberately flew too slowly so they wouldn't reach the aircraft in time
Whoever shot down Flight 93, and the senior officers who helped cover it up
Everyone who researched the passengers, then all the actors who used that research to make fake mobile calls to their relatives, and either the phone company or the FBI for covering up the phone records
Everyone involved in killing hundreds of passengers, assuming they didn't die in the crashes and were killed later
Everyone involved in transporting their bodies to the various scenes if they did, or faking the DNA evidence if they didn't
The people who researched the WTC to find out the best place to place explosives
The people who planted the explosives through the WTC towers and WTC7
Whoever detonated the WTC explosives at various different times of the day
Enough of the New York Fire and Police Departments to shut up everyone else and make sure they didn't try to investigate why all their friends and colleagues died
Everyone who prepared the remote control plane that really flew into the Pentagon, and whoever remote-controlled it, and the Washington Air Traffic Controllers who aren't allowed to talk about the extra radar blip they saw over the Pentagon (if Flight 77 really flew over it)
The Sheraton hotel staff who reportedly saw the video of the plane as it flew past to the Pentagon, but have never said that it wasn't the "official" flight
The people who ensured the Pentagon missile defence systems were disabled to the plane could hit
The people who planted the fake Pentagon evidence, from body parts to black boxes, and those who prepared it
The people who faked additional evidence around the Pentagon, bringing down lampposts etc in an effort to make it look like a large winged plane carried out the attack
Rudolph Giuliani for having advance knowledge that the WTC was going to collapse, and for helping to ensure that the steel was disposed of quickly
Enough people at American and United Airlines to keep quiet about the absence of the hijackers names from the passenger manifests
Enough people at CNN not to question the absence of the hijackers names from the flight manifests, if you believe that's what their victims lists really are
Enough people at FEMA and NIST to ensure any reports and analyses produced were whitewashes
Enough senior officials at the many WTC insurance companies to ensure the doubts were ignored and claims were paid
Everyone involved in producing the fake bin Laden "confession" video(s)
Khalid Al-Sheikh Mohammed and Ramzi Bin Al-Sheeba for discussing how they planned 9/11 on audio tape even though this didn’t happen, and perhaps al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda for getting the interview (if we assume he knows it isn't true)
All the other Al Qaeda members who've either implicitly or explicitly accepted responsibility for 9/11, even when they know it was carried out by someone else
The staff of the 9/11 Commission for deliberately obscuring the truth

[DiscoPro_Joe]

And here's a longer list of everyone who'd have to be "in on it" for it to be true.

(Please note that "P.E." means Professional Engineer, and "S.E." stands for Structural Engineer.)

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/someoft ... sandindivi

1,500 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene
40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero
55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York
7,000+ FBI Agents
8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon
Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E. / Aine M. Brazil, P.E., S.E. / Alan Rosa, P.E., S.E. / Alfred D. Barcenilla, Sr., P.E. / Allan Jowsey, Ph.D. / Allyn Kilsheimer, P.E., S.E. / Amit Bandyopadhyay, S.E. / Amy Zelson Mundorff / Anamaria Bonilla, S.E. / Andre Sidler, P.E., S.E. / Andrei Reinhorn, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. / Andrew Coats, P.E., S.E. / Andrew McConnell, S.E. / Andrew Mueller-Lust, S.E. / Andrew Pontecorvo, P.E. / Andrew Whittaker, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. / Anthony Kirk US&R Structural Specialist / Anthony W. Chuliver, S.E. / Antoine E. Naaman, Ph.D. / Antranig M. Ouzoonian, P.E. / Arlan Dobson, FEMA Region 2 DAS / Arthur Schuerman, FDNY (ret.) / Asif Usmani, Ph.D., B.E. / August Domel, Ph.D., S.E., P.E. / Ayhan Irfanoglu, P.E., S.E. / Barbara Lane, Ph.D. / Bernie Denke, P.E. US&R Structural Specialist / Bill Cote / Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E. / Bill Crowley, special agent, FBI / Bill Daly, senior vice president, Control Risks Group / Bill Scott (Capt. USAF, Ret.), / Bill Uher, NASA Langley Research Center / Bob Gray (I.U.O.E.) / Bonnie Manley, P.E., S.E. / Boris Hayda, P.E., S.E. / Brian Lyons, Tully / Brian McElhatten, S.E. / Brian Smith (Col.), Chief Deputy Medical Examiner, Dover AFB / Brian Tokarczik, P.E., S.E. / Charles Hirsch, M.D. / Charles J. Carter, P.E., S.E. / Charles Thornton, P.E. / Charlie Vitchers / Christoph Hoffmann, Ph.D., Purdue University / Christopher E. Marrion, P.E. / Christopher M. Hewitt, AISC / Christopher N. McCowan / Chuck Guardia, S.E. / Conrad Paulson, P.E., S.E. / Curtis S.D. Massey / D. Stanton Korista, P.E., S.E. / Dan Doyle (IW 40) / Dan Eschenasy, P.E., S.E. / Dan Koch Jr. / Daniel A. Cuoco, P.E / Daniele Veneziano, P.E. / David Biggs, P.E., S.E. / David Cooper, P.E. / David Davidowitz, ConEd / David Hoy, S.E. / David J. Hammond, P.E., S.E. / David Leach, P.E. / David M. Parks, ME / David Newland Sc.D., FREng. / David Peraza, P.E., S.E. / David Ranlet / David Schomburg / David Sharp, S.E. / David T. Biggs, P.E. / Dean Koutsoubis, S.E. / Dean Tills, P.E. / Delbert Boring, P.E. / Dennis Clark (IST) / Dennis Dirkmaat, Ph.D. / Dennis Mileti, Ph.D. / Dennis Smith / Dharam Pal, M.E. / Dick Posthauer, S.E. / Donald Friedman, P.E. / Donald O. Dusenberry, P.E. / Ed Jacoby Jr., NYSEMO / Ed McGinley, P.E. / Ed Plaugher, Chief, Arlington FD / Edward A. Flynn, Arlington Police Chief / Edward M. DePaola, P.E., S.E. / Edward Stinnette, Chief, FCFD / Eiji Fukuzawa / Fahim Sadek, P.E., S.E. / Farid Alfawakhiri, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. / Frank Vallebuono, FDNY Battalion Chief / Anthony Varriale, FDNY Captain / Frank Cruthers, FDNY Chief / Frank Fellini, FDNY Chief / Joseph Callan, FDNY Chief / Daniel Nigro, FDNY Chief of Operations / Nick Visconti, FDNY Deputy Chief / Peter Hayden, FDNY Deputy Chief / Sam Melisi, FDNY Firefighter / Forman Williams, Ph.D., P.E. / Francis J. Lombardi, P.E. / Frank Gayle, Sc.D. / Frank Greening, Ph.D. / Fred E.C. Culick, Ph.D., S.B. / Fred Endrikat, FEMA USAR / Gary Keith, V.P. NFPA / Gary Steficek, S.E. / Gary Tokle, Asst. VP, NFPA / George Tamaro, P.E., S.E. / Gerald Haynes, P.E. / Gerald Wellman US&R Structural Specialist / Glenn Corbett / Graeme Flint / Guy Colonna, P.E., NFPA / Guylene Proulx, Ph.D. / H.S. Lew, P.E., S.E. / Hal Bidlack, Lt. Col. USAF (ret.), Ph.D. / Harold E. Nelson, P.E., FSFP.E. / Harry Martin, AISC / Howard R. Baum, Ph.D., M.E. / J. David Frost, Ph.D., P.E. / J. David McColskey / Jack Brown Deputy Chief Loudoun County (Va.) Fire Rescue Department / Jack Messagno, WTC project Manager (Tully) / Jack Spencer, P.E. / Jacques Grandino, P.E., S.E. / James A. Rossberg, P.E. / James Chastain US&R Structural Specialist / James H. Fahey, S.E. / James J. Cohen, P.E., S.E. / James J. Hauck, P.E., S.E. / James Lord, FSFP.E. / James Milke, Ph.D., P.E. / James Quintiere, Ph.D., P.E. / Jan Szumanski, IUOE / Jason Averill, FSFP.E. / Jeff Rienbold, NPS / Jeffrey Hartman, S.E. / Jim Abadie, Bovis / Joel Meyerowitz / John Fisher, Ph.D., P.E., / John Flynn, P.E. / John Gross, Ph.D., P.E. / John Hodgens, FDNY (ret.) / John J. Healey, Ph.D., P.E. / John J. Zils, P.E., S.E. / John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E. / John Lekstutis, P.E. / John M. Hanson, Ph.D, P.E. / John McArdle NYPD/ESU (DTC) / John Moran, NYPD/ESU (NTC) / John O'Connell, Chief FDNY / John Odermatt (NYC OEM) / John Ruddy, P.E., S.E. / John Ryan, PAPD / John W. Fisher, P.E. / Jon Magnusson, P.E., S.E. / Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D / Joo-Eun Lee P.E., S.E. / José Torero, Ph.D. / Joseph C. Gehlen, P.E., S.E. / Joseph Englot, P.E., S.E. / Jozef Van Dyck, P.E. / Juan Paulo Morla, S.E. / Karen Damianick, P.E. / Karl Koch III / Karl Koch IV / Kaspar Willam, P.E., S.E. / Keith A. Seffen, MA, Ph.D. / Ken Hays / Kenneth Holden / Kent Watts / Kevin Brennan, OSHA / Kevin Malley, FDNY (ret.) / Kevin Terry, S.E. / Kurt Gustafson, P.E., S.E. / Larry Keating (IW 40) / Lawrence C. Bank, Ph.D., P.E. / Lawrence Griffis, P.E. / Lawrence Novak, P.E., S.E. / Leo J. Titus, P.E. / Leonard M. Joseph, P.E. / Leslie E. Robertson, P.E., S.E. / Long T. Phan, Ph.D., P.E. / Lou Mendes, P.E., S.E. / Louis Errichiello, S.E. / Manny Velivasakis, P.E. / Mark Blair / Mark Kucera, USACE / Mark Pierepiekarz, P.E., S.E. / Mark Stahl / Mark Tamaro, P.E / Mark Volpe, IW 40 / Marty Corcoran / Matthew G. Yerkey, P.E., S.E. / Matthew McCormick, NTSB / Melbourne Garber, P.E., S.E. / Merle E. Brander, P.E. / Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E. / Michael Burton, P.E. / Michael Dallal / Michael Fagel, Ph.D., CEM / Michael Hessheimer, S.E. / Michael K. Hynes, Ed.D., ATP, CFI / Michael Tylk, P.E., S.E. / Michel Bruneau, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. / Mike Banker, FDNY Capt. (SOC) / Mike Marscio, P.E. / Miroslav Sulc,, P.E., S.E. / Mohammed Ettouney / Mohammed R. Karim, Ph.D. / Morgan Hurley, FSFP.E. / Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E. / Nick Carcich / Norman Groner, Ph.D. / Pablo Lopez, P.E., S.E. / Patrick McNierney, P.E., S.E. / Paul A. Bosela, Ph.D., P.E. / Paul F. Mlakar, Ph.D., P.E. / Paul Sledzik / Paul Tertell, P.E. / Pete Bakersky / Peter Chipchase, S.E. / Peter Rinaldi, P.E. / Phillip Murray, P.E. / Pia Hoffman / Rajani Nair, S.E. / Ralph Castillo, P.E., F.P.E. / Ralph D'Apuzo, P.E. / Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E / Randy Lawson / Raul Maestre, P.E., S.E. / Raymond F. Messer, P.E. / Raymond H.R. Tide, P.E., S.E. / Reidar Bjorhovde, Ph.D., P.E / Richard Bukowski P.E., FSFP.E. / Richard G. Gewain, P.E., S.E. / Richard Gann, Ph.D. / Richard Garlock, P.E., S.E. / Richard J. Fields, Ph.D. / Richard Kahler US&R Structural Specialist / Robert Athanas (thermal imaging specialist, FDNY) / Robert C. Sinn, P.E., S.E. / Robert Clarke, S.E. / Robert F. Duval (NFPA) / Robert Frances US&R Structural Specialist / Robert J. McNamara, P.E., S.E. / Robert L. Parker, Ph.D. / Robert Ratay, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. / Robert Shaler, M.D. / Robert Smilowitz, Ph.D., P.E / Robert Solomon, P.E. / Robert Wills, AISC / Ron Dokell, president, Demolition Consultants / Ronald Greeley, Ph.D. / Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E. / Ronald J. LaMere, P.E. / Ronald Rehm, Ph.D. / Ronald Spadafora, FDNY D.A.C / Ruben M. Zallen, P.E. / Russell "Rusty" Dodge Jr, Asst. Chief, Fort Belvoir FD / Ryan Mackey / S. Shyam Sunder, P.E., S.E. / Saroj Bhol, P.E. / Saw-Teen See, P.E. / Shankar Nair. P.E., S.E. / Shawn Kelly, Arlington County Fire Marshal / Skip Aldous, Lt. Col., U.S. Air Force (Ret.) / Socrates Ioannides, P.E., S.E. / Sonny Scarff / Stan Murphy, P.E. / Stephen Cauffman / Stephen W. Banovic, Ph.D. / Steve Douglass, image analysis consultant / Steve Rasweiler, FDNY B.C. (SOC) / Steve Spall, P.E., S.E. / Stuart Foltz, P.E. / Terry Sullivan, Bovis / Theodore Galambos, P.E. / Theodore Krauthammer, Ph.D., P.E. / Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E. / Thomas A. Siewert / Thomas Eagar, Sc.D., P.E. / Thomas Hawkins Jr, Chief, AFD / Thomas R. Edwards, Ph.D / Thomas Schlafly, AISC / Timothy Foecke, Ph.D. / Todd Curtis, Ph.D / Todd Ude, P.E., S.E. / Tom Scarangello, P.E. / Tom Stanton (IST) / Tomasz Wierzbicki / Tony Beale, P.E. / Valentine Junker / Van Romero, Ph.D. / Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E. / Victor Hare, P.E. / Victoria Arbitrio, P.E. / Vincent Dunn, FDNY (ret.) / W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E. / W. Lee Evey / Wallace Miller / William Baker, P.E., S.E / William E. Luecke, Ph.D. / William Grosshandler, Ph.D., ME / William Howell, P.E., S.E. / William Koplitz photo desk manager, FEMA / William McGuire, P.E. / Willie Quinlan, IW / Won-Young Kim, Ph.D / Yates Gladwell pilot, VF Corp. / Yukihiro Omika / Zdenek Bazant, Ph.D., S.E. /
ACE Bermuda Insurance / AEMC Construction / AIG Insurance / Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington / Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue / Allianz Global Risks / American Airlines / American Concrete Institute / American Institute of Steel Construction / American Red Cross / Applied Biosystems Inc. / Applied Research Associates / Arlington County Emergency Medical Services / Arlington County Fire Department / Arlington County Sheriff's Department / Arlington VA Police Department / Armed Forces Institute of Pathology / Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee / ARUP USA / Atlantic Heydt Inc. / Bechtel / Berlin Fire Department / Big Apple Wrecking / Blanford & Co. / Bode Technology Group / Bovis Inc. / Building and Construction Trades Council / Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms / C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville / Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept. / California Incident Management Team / Carter Burgess Engineering / Celera Genomics / Centers for Disease Control / Central City Fire Department / Central Intelligence Agency / Cleveland Airport control tower / Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics / Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee / Consolidated Edison Company / Construction Technologies Laboratory / Controlled Demolitions Inc. / Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat / Counterterrorism and Security Group / CTL Engineering / D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc. / DeSimone Consulting Engineers / Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners / DiSalvo Ericson Engineering / District of Columbia Fire & Rescue / DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon / D'Onofrio Construction / E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews / Edwards and Kelcey Engineering / Engineering Systems, Inc. / Environmental protection Agency / Exponent Failure Analysis Associates / EYP Mission CriticalFacilities / Fairfax County Fire & Rescue / Falcon 20 crew in PA / Family members who received calls from victims on the planes / FBI Evidence Recovery Teams / Federal Aviation Administration / Federal Bureau of Investigation / Federal Emergency Management Agency / Federal Insurance Co. / FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1 / FEMA Disaster Field Office / FEMA Emergency Response Team / FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3 / Fire Department of New York / Fort Myer Fire Department / French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force / Friedens Volunteer Fire Department / Gateway Demolition / Gene Code Forensics / Georgia Tech Engineering Dept. / Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP / GMAC Financing / Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers / Guy Nordenson Associates / HAKS Engineers / Hampton-Clarke Inc. / HHS National Medical Response Team / HLW International Engineering / Hooversville Rescue Squad. / Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department / Hoy Structural Services / Hughes Associates, Inc / Hugo Neu Schnitzer East / hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC / Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives / Industrial Risk Insurers / Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems / International Association of Fire Chiefs / International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15 / J.R. Harris & Company / Johnstown-Cambria County Airport Authority / Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc. / KCE Structural Engineers / Koch Skanska / Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates / Laboratory Corp. of America / Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory / Leslie E. Robertson Associates / LIRo Engineering / Listie Volunteer Fire Company / Lockwood Consulting / M.G. McLaren Engineering / Masonry Society / Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc. / Metal Management Northeast / Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit / Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue / Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team / Montgomery County Fire & Rescue / Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers / Murray Engineering / Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc. / National Center for Biotechnology Informatics / National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States / National Council of Structural Engineers Associations / National Disaster Medical System / National Emergency Numbering Association / National Fire Protection Association / National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania / National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) / National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute / National Law Enforcement and Security Institute / National Military Command Center / National Reconnaissance Office / National Response Center / National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems / National Security Agency / National Transportation Safety Board / National Wrecking / Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center / New Jersey State Police / New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force / New York City Department of Design and Construction / New York City Department of Environmental Protection / New York City Office of Emergency Management / New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner / New York City Police Department Aviation Unit / New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit / New York Daily News / New York Flight Control Center / New York Newsday / New York Port Authority Construction Board / New York Port Authority Police / New York State Emergency Management Office / New York State Police Forensic Services / New York Times / North American Aerospace Defense Command / Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew / Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs / Numerous Forensic Anthropologists / Numerous Forensic Dentists / Numerous Forensic Pathologists / Numerous Forensic Radiologists / NuStats / Occupational Safety and Health Administration / Office of Emergency Preparedness / Office of Strategic Services / Orchid Cellmark / Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering / Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection / Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services / Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group / Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association / Pennsylvania State Police / Pentagon Defense Protective Service / Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team / Pentagon Medical Staff / Pentagon Renovation Team / Phillips & Jordan, Inc. / Port of New York and New Jersey Authority / Pro-Safety Services / Protec / Public Entity Risk Institute / Purdue University Engineering Dept. / Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers / Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc / Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers / Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity / SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams / SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams / Salvation Army Disaster Services / several EPA Hazmat Teams / several FBI Hazmat Teams / several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams / several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams / Severud Associates Consulting Engineers / Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company / Silverstein Properties / Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers / Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP / Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire / Society of Fire Protection Engineers / Somerset Ambulance Association / Somerset County Coroner's Office / Somerset County Emergency Management Agency / Somerset Volunteer Fire Department / St. Paul/Travelers Insurance / State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency / Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company / Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE) / Structural Engineers Association of New York / Superstructures Engineering / Swiss Re America Insurance / Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes / Teng & Associates / Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc. / TIG Insurance / Tokio Marine & Fire / Transportation Safety Administration / Tully Construction / Twin City Fire Insurance / Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering / U.S. Army Corps of Engineers / Underwriters Laboratories / Union Wrecking / United Airlines / United States Air National Guard / United States Fire Administration / United States Secret Service / United Steelworkers of America / University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research / US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County / US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command / US Department of Defense / US Department of Justice / US Department of State / Virginia Beach Fire Department / Virginia Department of Emergency Management / Virginia State Police / Vollmer Associates Engineers / Washington Post / Weeks Marine / Weidlinger Associates / Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering / Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency / Whitney Contracting / Willis Group Holdings / WJE Structural Engineers / Worcester Polytechnic Institute / World Trade Center security staff / XL Insurance / Yonkers Contracting / York International / Zurich Financial / Zurich Re Risk Engineering

[Winston]

Hi Joe, thanks for posting this info. What I don't get is, with sooooooooo many unanswered questions and impossibilities/improbabilities about 9/11, how could you have already made up your mind?

This isn't about conspiracy theories. This is about scientific forensic evidence.

Thermite and thermate were found in the WTC dust, which was pulverized to a fine grain dust. And molten metal was flowing there for 21 days after the collapse. How do you explain that?

Apr 22, 2009
Scientists Find Unignited Explosive Residues in WTC Dust
— Gregg Roberts

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/57

Explosives Found in
World Trade Center Dust
Scientists Discover Both Residues
And Unignited Fragments
Of High-Tech Metal Incendiaries
In Debris From the Twin Towers
by
Jim Hoffman
Version 1.0, April 3, 2009

http://www.911research.com/essays/therm ... idues.html

Just because some debunkers dismiss it all doesn't mean the case is closed.

I invite you to watch a brand new film about 9/11 from Europe. It's very well done and very watchable. Experts from the military and government are interviewed, as well as aviation, who explain why the maneuver of Flight 77 into the Pentagon was aerodynamically impossible. Do you really think a 757 can sustain 500mph speeds at 6 meters above ground? It's aerodynamically impossible.

A French nobel prize winner is interviewed as well.

You'll be shocked and enlightened.

Here is part one of the new European film "Zero: An investigation into 9/11" on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3kBn1us ... re=related

[Winston]

BTW Joe, your hero Mark Roberts was creamed in debate against Richard Gage. Mark doesn't explain anything. He just argues over little things and tries to take the subject off focus. I wish I could go on that program and debate him, cause I know debate strategy and how to put the hard questions to him that he can't answer.

"Loose Change" is not the best film about 9/11. There are many others and new ones being made now. A great one is called "Zero: An Investigation into 9/11" which I posted the link to earlier in this board.

And there is a brand new one that just came out that's supposed to be the most professionally done, called "9/11 Ripple Effect".

http://www.911rippleeffect.com/

It's on YouTube now. Or see it on Google video here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 9489496889

There is so much you're missing out. It's too bad you're not on the Truth bandwagon, cause we are winning big time. Alex Jones said that the evil elite behind 9/11 are going for broke, they are like cockroaches that have been sprayed with insecticides and running around like crazy cause they know their time is short.

Look how many experts have come out now and added their name to challenging the official 9/11 account.

The list of professional experts who challenge the official account of 9/11 is ever growing, as more and more people are having the courage to come out with their thoughts, even putting their careers at risk.

Check this out. The links to the full reports can be found at the link below.

http://patriotsquestion911.com/

200+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
690+ Engineers and Architects
200+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
400+ Professors Question 9/11
230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
200+ Artists, Entertainers, and Media Professionals

CREDIBLE CRITICS OF THE OFFICIAL ACCOUNT OF 9/11

41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11: "Terribly Flawed," "Laced with Contradictions," "a Joke," "a Cover-up"
May 18, 2009 English PDF English HTML Danish PDF
French PDF German PDF Greek PDF Norwegian PDF
Polish PDF Swedish PDF

29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11 – More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official collapse reports
June 17, 2009 PDF

Respected Medical Professionals Launch New 9/11 Truth Group – Announces Online Petition Calling for New Investigation
Feb. 24, 2009 MS Word Article on OpEdNews

Twenty-five U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 “Impossible�, “A Bunch of Hogwash�, “Total B.S.�, “Ludicrous�, “A Well-Organized Cover-up�, “A White-Washed Farce�
Jan. 14, 2008 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews

Eight U.S. State Department Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11 – Official Account of 9/11 "Flawed", "Absurd", "Totally Inadequate", "a Cover-up"
Jan. 5, 2008 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews

Seven Senior Federal Engineers and Scientists Call for New 9/11 Investigation – Official Account of 9/11 "Impossible", "Hogwash", "Fatally Flawed"
Dec. 13, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews

Eight Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11 – "Not Possible", "a Whitewash", "False"
Dec. 4, 2007 PDF Version Article on OpEdNews


Senior Military, Intelligence, Law Enforcement,
and Government Officials Question
the 9/11 Commission Report

Many well known and respected senior U.S. military officers, intelligence services and law enforcement veterans, and government officials have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report or have made public statements that contradict the Report. Several even allege government complicity in the terrible acts of 9/11. This page of the website is a collection of their statements. The website does not represent any organization and it should be made clear that none of these individuals are affiliated with this website.

Listed below are statements by more than 200 of these senior officials. Their collective voices give credibility to the claim that the 9/11 Commission Report is tragically flawed. These individuals cannot be simply dismissed as irresponsible believers in some 9/11 conspiracy theory. Their sincere concern, backed by their decades of service to their country, demonstrate that criticism of the Report is not irresponsible, illogical, nor disloyal, per se. In fact, it can be just the opposite. (continued below)

See the rest of the page at http://patriotsquestion911.com

[EvilBaga]

I lean towards thinking 911 was an inside job, at the very least in the sense that some people knew it was going to happen.

But the truth of the matter is immaterial. The greater truth is we are lied to all the time and most of the time, we would not be any the wiser.

For example, if you read Ralph Rene's book "NASA Mooned America" with pictures he shows, very clearly, that the moon landing was faked. Let me guess - impossible?

Another thing I know, from the direct experience of a friend of mine is Amelia Earhart was a spy for the US Government and was executed by the Japanese - she didnt get 'lost over the pacific'. Let me guess - improbable?

I wonder what else Im lied to about - no doubt its a lot more than Ill ever know.

[Winston]

Good points Evilbaga,

There is so much facts and evidence that the official story of 9/11 is false or incomplete, that any person with an open mind and not blinded by faith in authority can see it, if they study it. It's no longer a conspiracy "theory" but a matter of simple facts.

On the other hand, those who believe in the official story of 9/11 really have no evidence on their side. The FBI even admitted that they have no hard evidence linking Osama Bin Laden to 9/11, that's why on their website, Bin Laden is not wanted for 9/11. I wonder why the mainstream corporate controlled media don't address this. Sheesh.

The official believers simply believe it on faith, or they think that the inside job hypothesis is too outlandish (but hey, at least the inside job hypothesis doesn't defy the laws of physics).

Look how many credible people have come to question the official 9/11 story:

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

Also, if the official story of 9/11 was completely true, then why is the media suppressing all evidence to the contrary, including hard evidence and witness testimony? If they had nothing to hide, why are they not letting both sides be presented fully? Red flag.

As to the moon landing, I am not entirely sure either way whether they were real or not. Sure, for every hoax theory, the other side can come up with some explanation, no matter how outlandish. But the bottom line is that I have not seen any irrefutable absolute proof that the moon landings were real. People seem to believe it was real as though it were some religion, faith based, out of pride, and cause it's part of the culture too.

All the websites out there that I've seen trying to debunk the moon hoax theories do nothing to prove that the moon landings were real. You see, even if you were to try to debunk every hoax argument, that still doesn't prove that the moon landings were real. And why should we take every counter argument of theirs as Gospel truth anyway?

Yet the government has lied time and time again in the past. They've faked incidents like Gulf of Tonkin to get us into War. They've even drafted plans like Operation Northwoods in which they were to kill innocent people in staged terrorist attacks on US soil to create an excuse to invade Cuba. So it's not beyond them to fake events or even kill innocent people.

David Icke says that these people, who are part of the Illuminati, have no compassion or empathy like regular people do, not even for each other. They do not care about consequences and see people as cattle only.

Also, many members of the elite, including Clinton, the Bushes, Arnold Schwartzenegger, the Rockefellers, etc. have been caught doing Satanic Rituals at Bohemian Grove. That is a fact.