Are Asian men only valued for their money? If so that sucks!

[WilliamSmith]

Let's be real for a second... Asian girls have the biggest reputation for being gold diggers. Let's be honest about what our favorite girls are like. Asian girls care more then any other race of girls how much money you make. Yet they are statistically the least likely to get divorced or cheat on their husband. This is despite the fact that Asian girls are overwhelmingly married to guys y'all would call, "unattractive betas who have to rely on their money."

@Outcast9428 interesting stuff as usual, but can you point me to some recommended source to get a background what you're calling K-selected vs R-selected?
(I know I could just do a Brave/Yandex search for the terms but would rather have a source you vouched for.)

As for Asian women, I really love them a lot, and if I wasn't pretty much bonkers over black women I'd probably be one of the largest offenders for wracking up WMAF #s, even though I would regret any resentment it caused if the men found out (but it's looking more and more like black women might spare the Asian male population from my presence, so there's that ), however, that's bringing us to another point: Confident men, especially white men, who get a reasonably good polished approach to dating women are notorious for easily being able to get dozens of hundreds of Asian women in most places (definitely Japan, most Chinese speaking areas, Philippines, Thailand) without any pretension to showing off their earnings, even if they're reasonably well dressed or whatever. So both the fantasy of Asian women being uninterested in premarital sex (!!) or the belief that showing off $$'s is a good idea during the attraction phase don't really hold up to the reality.
Japan also has a huge cheating culture mirroring the typical "chick logic" in the West but on more widespread basis (e.g. like the chick logic "it doesn't count as cheating as long as we're just doing it doggy in the back of his car, as long as I don't go back to his apartment," etc, the Japanese cheating culture I heard basically says both wives and husbands don't count as cheating as long as they don't get caught, so....)

On the other hand, if you're talking serious relationships then I think you're on more firm ground in saying Asian women are more likely to expect a man to be a steady/solid earner, but the key thing is:
What would they do if they actually had a broader range of options vs just being surrounded in so many comparatively conformist men in their own societies? I don't want anything to do with undermining those societies and am not trying to tear 'em down, but seriously, there's massive drama amongst Asian men over white men cleaning up there to the point they write about white men potentially causing "systemic damage" in their countries, since so many Asian women are so easy for them, and in some places like Japan black men are getting into it now also (queue the drama now not only from the Asian men, but also the white men poaching Asian chicks who thought they'd gotten overseas to escape the black men stealing too many white women, and who they now don't want going there to steal the Asian women).

Black girls probably have the highest level of attraction to "primal masculinity" with Latina girls being second place. Both demographics of women are the most likely to get divorced or cheat on their husband. This is because the behavior that y'all promote, the PUA tactics, they work on R-selected women. They enjoy spontaneity, novelty, risk, excitement. They crave those things and that's why a provider type guy cannot lock down an R-selected woman by having money because R-selected women crave novelty and excitement more then anything. The tactics y'all advocate, however, don't work on women who are very strong in the K-selected genetic patterns.

You made another mistaken assumption about what types of behavior we're advocating as more effective, as I can tell from the following example you gave about the Pinay brushing off some guy who sent a lewd message (definitely not what I was every implying was the ideal strategy for attracting women in a natural way by being internally attractive to them and trying to wield at least some level of charm in conversation and so on, as opposed to risking gold-diggers).

But as for black women: I can tell you narrowed black women down to a more stereotypical type you have in mind there (not that there aren't a lot of that type out there), but just pointing out there's tons of different types of black American women also who are not like that at all, such as the way more conservative churchgoers to the middle class where the black women are rather noted for having huge #s more black women with university or advanced degrees, among others.
Actually amongst them is probably one of the best places to look for a woman who'd make an ideal wife for a lot of monogamists like many traditionalists claim they are, because a lot of those women put being Christian as a super-high priority and won't even let a man get much of a chance if he isn't at least somewhat compatible with her church. (Also, bonus hot tip to anyone interested in black women who might be like this: If you happen to be involved with one and you are also the type who goes off on periodic alcohol-buzzed tirades about jews, watch out for drama if you say the wrong thing about Christianity or imply or state Christianity was created by lying jews, even if most black women don't generally give a damn what anyone says about jews. I think the way black people reinvent Christianity can be quite nice and poignant in some ways, and their prayers are heard by Heavens/God/Angels and so on, but yeah, watch out if you come across as dissing Christianity or Jesus etc. But of course those of you who already consider yourselves JCs wouldn't do that.)

Anyway, some other things on types of black American women is that they have some of the same problems as Latvian women (I think maybe Russian in some places too) and others where the women outnumber the men in their communities so much that a lot of the men there start becoming spoiled because they can get away with a lot and still be confident they can get more women, sometimes juggling multiple women at a time while having a very high opinion of themselves but also acting like complete assholes sometimes while lazing around, sometimes even letting the women support them financially.
And in some cases I've noticed cases where both black and white American women ended up with a guy like this living at her house after he became the "baby daddy" that eventually the women throw the men out because he wasn't helping or even being nice to her in some cases, and she doesn't want to pay his expenses and his food since she already has to take care of her kids now.
But my point here is: These cases aren't necessarily just the type of women who you said who will react sexually to a more aggressive physically exciting or dominant (but unreliable) man and consequently end up single moms or divorced for that reason. Of course there are types like that though too.

My co-worker recently proved that. He was talking to a Filipina girl and he actually waited after a few weeks of talking to her but eventually just straight up said "hey I'm trying to f**k" and she responded by telling him to stop talking to her and blocking him. That aggressive, direct approach does not work with K-selected women. I've seen guys who look and act exactly like you think guys should be like, attempt the exact same strategies you advocate for, on K-selected women and the attempt falls flat on its face. I saw a muscular, Greek God looking dude who is extremely extroverted and super confident. He slept with probably 50 girls in the time he was my roommate. He tried to seduce a conservative, religious girl that hung out with my group of friends at the time. Complete failure, she barely spoke to him again. Just because y'alls tactics work on a lot of girls doesn't mean you've cracked some sort of code that will work with every woman on Earth.

Yeah, but none of that crudeness is ever anything I was advocating for, even though it's true that crassly sexualized approach coupled with not giving a !@#$ can get "Chads and Tyrones" laid a lot, LOL. Good stories though.

Now, I don't pretend that having money is going to work on thrill seeking, R-selected women. I have made it very clear in my time on this forum that my strategies will not work on a lot of women, I don't think they'd even work on most women. They do work, very well, on a certain type of girl though, and I've already seen enough results from this strategy to know that, while it could use fine tuning and better preparation, overall, it is working.

For the kind of woman I'm searching for, some degree of gold digger tendencies are inevitable so I don't consider them to be a red flag. K-selected women crave stability, safety, and reliability more then anything, that's why they tend to have what many men consider gold digger tendencies. Because a man's earning potential is a big part of what makes him stable and reliable. It also correlates with a woman who will not be ambitious and seek a career outside of the home, which, I would not want even in the situation you described of "a woman who wants my nuts." I want a woman who will prioritize me and our family. That's a rule I will not compromise on.

Yeah if you want a woman who stays in the home fulltime raising the kids and caring for the home then obviously her wanting the husband to be the breadwinner makes sense. The kicker is the attraction phase: If you want to find the type who wants to be a housewife, it's really totally mandatory that you find girls to date who want that from the start and say so.
Similar to the black women who are wisely screening out men who won't be compatible with their Church, you can't just expect it to work out unless you screen for it.
If you don't start with that type to begin with and get cerebral about how showing off $$ would theoretically be attractive to this type, the problem of getting gold-diggers who might claim they'll stay home and then just divorce you and make off with your funds later are dangerously increased.
I'm curious about the K-selected vs R-selected theory you've mentioned, but no way in hell can you fantasize that Asian women are genetically predisposed toward monogamous fidelity more than black or white women: Tons of Asian women are notorious for being the easiest lays to where they've literally turned former average joe white guys' lives into lewd fantasy playgrounds, and there's tons of scandals involving the wives as well.
They just don't register that way society-wide because they didn't originally have much other options, but once they did, look what happened.
The scandalous stuff I mentioned has nothing to do with me, by the way, I never have anything to do with cheating or trying to bag married women of any sort, and I hate all that "cuckolding" garbage just as much as @WanderingProtoganist (well close to as much, I hate it too but boy does he hate it even more maybe) and think all that gross stuff is crap that accomplishes nothing but creating bad blood between people for no good reason, but I still just have to point out you're overestimating a lot of Asian countries and apparently Asians genetically for supposedly being less disposed toward casual sex or cheating...

[WanderingProtagonist]

Let's be real for a second... Asian girls have the biggest reputation for being gold diggers. Let's be honest about what our favorite girls are like. Asian girls care more then any other race of girls how much money you make. Yet they are statistically the least likely to get divorced or cheat on their husband. This is despite the fact that Asian girls are overwhelmingly married to guys y'all would call, "unattractive betas who have to rely on their money."

@Outcast9428 interesting stuff as usual, but can you point me to some recommended source to get a background what you're calling K-selected vs R-selected?
(I know I could just do a Brave/Yandex search for the terms but would rather have a source you vouched for.)

As for Asian women, I really love them a lot, and if I wasn't pretty much bonkers over black women I'd probably be one of the largest offenders for wracking up WMAF #s, even though I would regret any resentment it caused if the men found out (but it's looking more and more like black women might spare the Asian male population from my presence, so there's that ), however, that's bringing us to another point: Confident men, especially white men, who get a reasonably good polished approach to dating women are notorious for easily being able to get dozens of hundreds of Asian women in most places (definitely Japan, most Chinese speaking areas, Philippines, Thailand) without any pretension to showing off their earnings, even if they're reasonably well dressed or whatever. So both the fantasy of Asian women being uninterested in premarital sex (!!) or the belief that showing off $$'s is a good idea during the attraction phase don't really hold up to the reality.
Japan also has a huge cheating culture mirroring the typical "chick logic" in the West but on more widespread basis (e.g. like the chick logic "it doesn't count as cheating as long as we're just doing it doggy in the back of his car, as long as I don't go back to his apartment," etc, the Japanese cheating culture I heard basically says both wives and husbands don't count as cheating as long as they don't get caught, so....)

On the other hand, if you're talking serious relationships then I think you're on more firm ground in saying Asian women are more likely to expect a man to be a steady/solid earner, but the key thing is:
What would they do if they actually had a broader range of options vs just being surrounded in so many comparatively conformist men in their own societies? I don't want anything to do with undermining those societies and am not trying to tear 'em down, but seriously, there's massive drama amongst Asian men over white men cleaning up there to the point they write about white men potentially causing "systemic damage" in their countries, since so many Asian women are so easy for them, and in some places like Japan black men are getting into it now also (queue the drama now not only from the Asian men, but also the white men poaching Asian chicks who thought they'd gotten overseas to escape the black men stealing too many white women, and who they now don't want going there to steal the Asian women).

Black girls probably have the highest level of attraction to "primal masculinity" with Latina girls being second place. Both demographics of women are the most likely to get divorced or cheat on their husband. This is because the behavior that y'all promote, the PUA tactics, they work on R-selected women. They enjoy spontaneity, novelty, risk, excitement. They crave those things and that's why a provider type guy cannot lock down an R-selected woman by having money because R-selected women crave novelty and excitement more then anything. The tactics y'all advocate, however, don't work on women who are very strong in the K-selected genetic patterns.

You made another mistaken assumption about what types of behavior we're advocating as more effective, as I can tell from the following example you gave about the Pinay brushing off some guy who sent a lewd message (definitely not what I was every implying was the ideal strategy for attracting women in a natural way by being internally attractive to them and trying to wield at least some level of charm in conversation and so on, as opposed to risking gold-diggers).

But as for black women: I can tell you narrowed black women down to a more stereotypical type you have in mind there (not that there aren't a lot of that type out there), but just pointing out there's tons of different types of black American women also who are not like that at all, such as the way more conservative churchgoers to the middle class where the black women are rather noted for having huge #s more black women with university or advanced degrees, among others.
Actually amongst them is probably one of the best places to look for a woman who'd make an ideal wife for a lot of monogamists like many traditionalists claim they are, because a lot of those women put being Christian as a super-high priority and won't even let a man get much of a chance if he isn't at least somewhat compatible with her church. (Also, bonus hot tip to anyone interested in black women who might be like this: If you happen to be involved with one and you are also the type who goes off on periodic alcohol-buzzed tirades about jews, watch out for drama if you say the wrong thing about Christianity or imply or state Christianity was created by lying jews, even if most black women don't generally give a damn what anyone says about jews. I think the way black people reinvent Christianity can be quite nice and poignant in some ways, and their prayers are heard by Heavens/God/Angels and so on, but yeah, watch out if you come across as dissing Christianity or Jesus etc. But of course those of you who already consider yourselves JCs wouldn't do that.)

Anyway, some other things on types of black American women is that they have some of the same problems as Latvian women (I think maybe Russian in some places too) and others where the women outnumber the men in their communities so much that a lot of the men there start becoming spoiled because they can get away with a lot and still be confident they can get more women, sometimes juggling multiple women at a time while having a very high opinion of themselves but also acting like complete assholes sometimes while lazing around, sometimes even letting the women support them financially.
And in some cases I've noticed cases where both black and white American women ended up with a guy like this living at her house after he became the "baby daddy" that eventually the women throw the men out because he wasn't helping or even being nice to her in some cases, and she doesn't want to pay his expenses and his food since she already has to take care of her kids now.
But my point here is: These cases aren't necessarily just the type of women who you said who will react sexually to a more aggressive physically exciting or dominant (but unreliable) man and consequently end up single moms or divorced for that reason. Of course there are types like that though too.

My co-worker recently proved that. He was talking to a Filipina girl and he actually waited after a few weeks of talking to her but eventually just straight up said "hey I'm trying to f**k" and she responded by telling him to stop talking to her and blocking him. That aggressive, direct approach does not work with K-selected women. I've seen guys who look and act exactly like you think guys should be like, attempt the exact same strategies you advocate for, on K-selected women and the attempt falls flat on its face. I saw a muscular, Greek God looking dude who is extremely extroverted and super confident. He slept with probably 50 girls in the time he was my roommate. He tried to seduce a conservative, religious girl that hung out with my group of friends at the time. Complete failure, she barely spoke to him again. Just because y'alls tactics work on a lot of girls doesn't mean you've cracked some sort of code that will work with every woman on Earth.

Yeah, but none of that crudeness is ever anything I was advocating for, even though it's true that crassly sexualized approach coupled with not giving a !@#$ can get "Chads and Tyrones" laid a lot, LOL. Good stories though.

Now, I don't pretend that having money is going to work on thrill seeking, R-selected women. I have made it very clear in my time on this forum that my strategies will not work on a lot of women, I don't think they'd even work on most women. They do work, very well, on a certain type of girl though, and I've already seen enough results from this strategy to know that, while it could use fine tuning and better preparation, overall, it is working.

For the kind of woman I'm searching for, some degree of gold digger tendencies are inevitable so I don't consider them to be a red flag. K-selected women crave stability, safety, and reliability more then anything, that's why they tend to have what many men consider gold digger tendencies. Because a man's earning potential is a big part of what makes him stable and reliable. It also correlates with a woman who will not be ambitious and seek a career outside of the home, which, I would not want even in the situation you described of "a woman who wants my nuts." I want a woman who will prioritize me and our family. That's a rule I will not compromise on.

Yeah if you want a woman who stays in the home fulltime raising the kids and caring for the home then obviously her wanting the husband to be the breadwinner makes sense. The kicker is the attraction phase: If you want to find the type who wants to be a housewife, it's really totally mandatory that you find girls to date who want that from the start and say so.
Similar to the black women who are wisely screening out men who won't be compatible with their Church, you can't just expect it to work out unless you screen for it.
If you don't start with that type to begin with and get cerebral about how showing off $$ would theoretically be attractive to this type, the problem of getting gold-diggers who might claim they'll stay home and then just divorce you and make off with your funds later are dangerously increased.
I'm curious about the K-selected vs R-selected theory you've mentioned, but no way in hell can you fantasize that Asian women are genetically predisposed toward monogamous fidelity more than black or white women: Tons of Asian women are notorious for being the easiest lays to where they've literally turned former average joe white guys' lives into lewd fantasy playgrounds, and there's tons of scandals involving the wives as well.
They just don't register that way society-wide because they didn't originally have much other options, but once they did, look what happened.
The scandalous stuff I mentioned has nothing to do with me, by the way, I never have anything to do with cheating or trying to bag married women of any sort, and I hate all that "cuckolding" garbage just as much as @WanderingProtoganist (well close to as much, I hate it too but boy does he hate it even more maybe) and think all that gross stuff is crap that accomplishes nothing but creating bad blood between people for no good reason, but I still just have to point out you're overestimating a lot of Asian countries and apparently Asians genetically for supposedly being less disposed toward casual sex or cheating...

That's why I told him that the reason it may seem like they do it less in the States is because there aren't that many Asians in America to begin with. They are outnumbered by everyone else and the highest number of immigrants that live in the U.S. are Hispanic. Asians mostly feel well adjusted in their own country, and none of the ones from Korea, Japan, China, etc seem like they are desperate enough to even move here. You only have a very small percentage of some of those Asians here.

[WilliamSmith]

Take a look at these two Japanese men with primal masculinity:




I'm sure that these two Asian dudes are not desired only for their money. The Jiujitsu dude in the blue gi is especially a manly stud. I bet plenty of Japanese women would be more than happy for him to mount them or pass their guard!

Eh, what's this? Back on topic?

That's not too shabby, but here's my contributions, first up a repost of what's been called the "manliest MMA fight ever" with Don Frye and Yoshihiro Takayama (so sure Takayama lost that one, but damn that was badass legendary striking and he really went the distance against Don Frye), then I added another where Takayama f***ed up some big blond dude in Pancrase or something like that with a huge leg kick.

[Outcast9428]

@Lucas88

Japan is not a disaster, it just needs some tweaking and then it will be fine. For the most part, it is a great society one which I consider vastly superior to the United States and Western Europe. Japan has the lowest crime rate in the entire world. They are known around the world for their politeness and sweetness. They invented kawaii culture, and have created the only global market of entertainment that can compete with the United States media. Japan is an extremely moral society and the reason why it is that way is because they do follow most of what I believe in. Look there are nice things about Latin America but there’s a reason why it has significantly bigger crime problems then Asian countries do even when those Asian countries are poor. Latin America’s dating norms do enable hybristophillic women. Asian dating norms absolutely crush any possibility of that.

It wasn’t even that long ago that Japan was completely dedicated to family values. Just go back 20 years ago and while Japan did have the work culture it didn’t have the singles problem.

Japan has all the foundations to create the greatest civilization humanity has ever known. No country on Earth has as strong of a moral compass as Japan does. Japan just needs to figure out how to sustain it.

The problem with what you mentioned is that hours at the gym doesn’t benefit society at all unless the guy is going to be in the military, an athlete, or police. Providers are traditionally promoted by society because when their work is tied to their sexual success they will work much more effectively and productively. When all the young men in the country learn to tie their sexual success to career success this utilizes everybody’s productivity and a lot of shit gets done. This is why old fashioned Western society built itself up so much. It’s why Asia is still building while the West has fallen behind and is declining. The guy putting hours into the gym doesn’t really matter because his work only benefits him and satisfying women’s sexual appetites. It doesn’t do anything for civilization’s benefit. Some time in the gym can be beneficial because a healthy population is good but it’s not the same as a guy putting in work at an anime studio and creating a TV show that we can all enjoy or putting in hours building your house for you.

That being said, any attitude can be taken too far and Japan does take its work culture too far. People should try to be as productive in as few hours as possible rather then praising people for being in the office until 8:00 when that same guy did barely anything and was probably sleeping part of the day until it was 5:00 and then he started working. No I don’t like almost any other part of German society but the way they approach work specifically is very smart. Be ultra productive while you are at work but go home early in the day. According to studies I’ve seen half of the time Americans and British people spend in the office is wasted. People only effectively work about 5 hours a day. It’s probably a lot worse in Japan. They are ranked as the least productive workers in the work for how many hours they are in the office. Why the hell are they in the office then? I’d rather start the day a couple hours later and give people six hours a day of extreme productivity and then let them leave. And give people a reasonable amount of vacation time.

[Outcast9428]

@WilliamSmith

I could say the same about you getting fat. If you build a relationship with a girl based on your physical sex appeal then when you stop providing the sex appeal, because for whatever reason you can’t, then she will leave you too. That’s the reality of a feminist society.

Everything I mentioned is just statistical data based on averages.

Not having enough money was one reason she gave. Like I said I think the whole “I can’t live in Florida” part was the bigger part of it. Florida houses cost a lot more then Virginian houses. The same house in Virginia that costs $500,000 would be like $800,000 in Florida but she just said “it’s the sticker price for the nice weather.” That being said, if I made $100,000 or more I wonder if she would’ve moved anyway. The money was definitely a big part of it too. That’s why I want to make a six figure income. If I can make a six figure income then every loose end will be tied.

[Outcast9428]

@WilliamSmith

Also, I do not and never said that I consider any of the time or money I spent on my ex to have been a waste. That was truly the happiest I have ever been in my life. I wish it had lasted forever but for awhile, I was dating the girl of my dreams. She was incredible on many levels.

[WanderingProtagonist]

@Lucas88

Japan is not a disaster, it just needs some tweaking and then it will be fine. For the most part, it is a great society one which I consider vastly superior to the United States and Western Europe. Japan has the lowest crime rate in the entire world. They are known around the world for their politeness and sweetness. They invented kawaii culture, and have created the only global market of entertainment that can compete with the United States media. Japan is an extremely moral society and the reason why it is that way is because they do follow most of what I believe in. Look there are nice things about Latin America but there’s a reason why it has significantly bigger crime problems then Asian countries do even when those Asian countries are poor. Latin America’s dating norms do enable hybristophillic women. Asian dating norms absolutely crush any possibility of that.

It wasn’t even that long ago that Japan was completely dedicated to family values. Just go back 20 years ago and while Japan did have the work culture it didn’t have the singles problem.

Japan has all the foundations to create the greatest civilization humanity has ever known. No country on Earth has as strong of a moral compass as Japan does. Japan just needs to figure out how to sustain it.

The problem with what you mentioned is that hours at the gym doesn’t benefit society at all unless the guy is going to be in the military, an athlete, or police. Providers are traditionally promoted by society because when their work is tied to their sexual success they will work much more effectively and productively. When all the young men in the country learn to tie their sexual success to career success this utilizes everybody’s productivity and a lot of shit gets done. This is why old fashioned Western society built itself up so much. It’s why Asia is still building while the West has fallen behind and is declining. The guy putting hours into the gym doesn’t really matter because his work only benefits him and satisfying women’s sexual appetites. It doesn’t do anything for civilization’s benefit. Some time in the gym can be beneficial because a healthy population is good but it’s not the same as a guy putting in work at an anime studio and creating a TV show that we can all enjoy or putting in hours building your house for you.

That being said, any attitude can be taken too far and Japan does take its work culture too far. People should try to be as productive in as few hours as possible rather then praising people for being in the office until 8:00 when that same guy did barely anything and was probably sleeping part of the day until it was 5:00 and then he started working. No I don’t like almost any other part of German society but the way they approach work specifically is very smart. Be ultra productive while you are at work but go home early in the day. According to studies I’ve seen half of the time Americans and British people spend in the office is wasted. People only effectively work about 5 hours a day. It’s probably a lot worse in Japan. They are ranked as the least productive workers in the work for how many hours they are in the office. Why the hell are they in the office then? I’d rather start the day a couple hours later and give people six hours a day of extreme productivity and then let them leave. And give people a reasonable amount of vacation time.

I don't agree with any of this. Japan is only "safe" right now because they don't have a bunch of immigrants over there like we do taking over their society and transforming their country into their country. The moment they start getting sympathetic with people from everywhere else in the world and letting Africans and Islamic mutha fuckers over there, you can kiss that safety goodbye and hello mass Japanese girls getting raped. There is not a single warrior spirit left in the Japanese men anymore. Instead they must rely on woke America for defense and protection. They also have an aging population problem, and men not even breeding with their own women.

Japan is overrated as hell, it's not the 1990s anymore (even though I wish that it was), all that weebo stuff they were able to rely on in the past isn't going to save them today. People moved on to South korean now. I remember back in the day how people would talk about Jrock all the time, now it's Kpop/Kdrama crap. Anime lost it's appeal when they ditched the Vampire Hunter D/Wicked City look and started doing shit that look like it's meant for 11 year old girls. The stuff they were creating in the 90s was much better than what they currently produce.

Japan had better improve or they will fail as a nation. You can't sustain a tiny country with an aging population and a young population that sit around all day nerding out ignoring the issues going on within their nation and pretending that everything is okay just because you don't have to worry about getting mugged or stabbed. Japan was better off years ago, but Japan today is what William described so I agree with him. Crime isn't the only thing that can take them out. Aging population, herbivore men everywhere, girls obsessed with materialism, people being phone addicts even worse than they are here in America, no one breeding and increasing the population, high ass suicide rates (especially among the men), old people dying alone with no family to look after them (Saw Nagoro Village it's literately got scarecrows all over the village to replace people because barely anyone lives there besides the woman that created the dolls which looks very sad), overworked society, sounds very much so like a disaster to me even without the high crime.

[Outcast9428]

@Lucas88

Japan is not a disaster, it just needs some tweaking and then it will be fine. For the most part, it is a great society one which I consider vastly superior to the United States and Western Europe. Japan has the lowest crime rate in the entire world. They are known around the world for their politeness and sweetness. They invented kawaii culture, and have created the only global market of entertainment that can compete with the United States media. Japan is an extremely moral society and the reason why it is that way is because they do follow most of what I believe in. Look there are nice things about Latin America but there’s a reason why it has significantly bigger crime problems then Asian countries do even when those Asian countries are poor. Latin America’s dating norms do enable hybristophillic women. Asian dating norms absolutely crush any possibility of that.

It wasn’t even that long ago that Japan was completely dedicated to family values. Just go back 20 years ago and while Japan did have the work culture it didn’t have the singles problem.

Japan has all the foundations to create the greatest civilization humanity has ever known. No country on Earth has as strong of a moral compass as Japan does. Japan just needs to figure out how to sustain it.

The problem with what you mentioned is that hours at the gym doesn’t benefit society at all unless the guy is going to be in the military, an athlete, or police. Providers are traditionally promoted by society because when their work is tied to their sexual success they will work much more effectively and productively. When all the young men in the country learn to tie their sexual success to career success this utilizes everybody’s productivity and a lot of shit gets done. This is why old fashioned Western society built itself up so much. It’s why Asia is still building while the West has fallen behind and is declining. The guy putting hours into the gym doesn’t really matter because his work only benefits him and satisfying women’s sexual appetites. It doesn’t do anything for civilization’s benefit. Some time in the gym can be beneficial because a healthy population is good but it’s not the same as a guy putting in work at an anime studio and creating a TV show that we can all enjoy or putting in hours building your house for you.

That being said, any attitude can be taken too far and Japan does take its work culture too far. People should try to be as productive in as few hours as possible rather then praising people for being in the office until 8:00 when that same guy did barely anything and was probably sleeping part of the day until it was 5:00 and then he started working. No I don’t like almost any other part of German society but the way they approach work specifically is very smart. Be ultra productive while you are at work but go home early in the day. According to studies I’ve seen half of the time Americans and British people spend in the office is wasted. People only effectively work about 5 hours a day. It’s probably a lot worse in Japan. They are ranked as the least productive workers in the work for how many hours they are in the office. Why the hell are they in the office then? I’d rather start the day a couple hours later and give people six hours a day of extreme productivity and then let them leave. And give people a reasonable amount of vacation time.

I don't agree with any of this. Japan is only "safe" right now because they don't have a bunch of immigrants over there like we do taking over their society and transforming their country into their country. The moment they start getting sympathetic with people from everywhere else in the world and letting Africans and Islamic mutha fuckers over there, you can kiss that safety goodbye and hello mass Japanese girls getting raped. There is not a single warrior spirit left in the Japanese men anymore. Instead they must rely on woke America for defense and protection. They also have an aging population problem, and men not even breeding with their own women.

Japan is overrated as hell, it's not the 1990s anymore (even though I wish that it was), all that weebo stuff they were able to rely on in the past isn't going to save them today. People moved on to South korean now. I remember back in the day how people would talk about Jrock all the time, now it's Kpop/Kdrama crap. Anime lost it's appeal when they ditched the Vampire Hunter D/Wicked City look and started doing shit that look like it's meant for 11 year old girls. The stuff they were creating in the 90s was much better than what they currently produce.

Japan had better improve or they will fail as a nation. You can't sustain a tiny country with an aging population and a young population that sit around all day nerding out ignoring the issues going on within their nation and pretending that everything is okay just because you don't have to worry about getting mugged or stabbed. Japan was better off years ago, but Japan today is what William described so I agree with him. Crime isn't the only thing that can take them out. Aging population, herbivore men everywhere, girls obsessed with materialism, people being phone addicts even worse than they are here in America, no one breeding and increasing the population, high ass suicide rates (especially among the men), old people dying alone with no family to look after them (Saw Nagoro Village it's literately got scarecrows all over the village to replace people because barely anyone lives there besides the woman that created the dolls which looks very sad), overworked society, sounds very much so like a disaster to me even without the high crime.

Japan's problems are... By leaps and bounds, easier to fix then America's problems, Canada's problems, or Western Europe's problems. I do fear with the direction they are going in that could change, but as of right now, Japan's problems can be fixed fairly easily. You just need somebody in charge of the country like Viktor Orban who actually gives a shit. America, on the other hand, is so balkanized that you could have the greatest political leader imaginable and America would still be difficult to fix because there's so many problems here that people are going to be extremely resistant to any attempt to fix.

Japan is already going in a somewhat Orbanist direction of giving couples $6,000 upon getting married to start their lives. I think this isn't an adequate amount of money though and its not like Orban's program where divorce or not having kids means you have to pay the loan back. Japan just gives you a lump sum of $6,000 when you get married and that's the end of it. Japan should give couples $50,000 loans and give them advice on houses to purchase and job listings in smaller towns around the country so that the population isn't so damn concentrated in Tokyo. If the couple has three kids or more they won't have to pay back the $50,000 and if they get divorced, they'll have to pay it back with interest. Hungary right now has the highest rate of homeownership in Europe as well as the highest marriage rate. Orban's ideas work, that's how you make a country conservative and the Japanese are more naturally conservative then the Hungarians were in 2011. But Orban has made the number of self-identified Christians rise from 55% in 2011 to 75% in 2019. Hookup culture has been destroyed in Hungary, the birth rate has risen by 24%, and Hungarians are marrying at the highest rate in Europe.

Viktor Orban is a f***ing genius. He has saved conservatism across the entire world by proving that liberalism is not inevitable, that it can be defeated and you can make your society conservative again. He has laid out the blueprint for conservatives all over the world to save and repair their countries and cultures.

[Lucas88]

Japan is not a disaster, it just needs some tweaking and then it will be fine. For the most part, it is a great society one which I consider vastly superior to the United States and Western Europe. Japan has the lowest crime rate in the entire world. They are known around the world for their politeness and sweetness. They invented kawaii culture, and have created the only global market of entertainment that can compete with the United States media. Japan is an extremely moral society and the reason why it is that way is because they do follow most of what I believe in. Look there are nice things about Latin America but there’s a reason why it has significantly bigger crime problems then Asian countries do even when those Asian countries are poor. Latin America’s dating norms do enable hybristophillic women. Asian dating norms absolutely crush any possibility of that.

It wasn’t even that long ago that Japan was completely dedicated to family values. Just go back 20 years ago and while Japan did have the work culture it didn’t have the singles problem.

Japan has all the foundations to create the greatest civilization humanity has ever known. No country on Earth has as strong of a moral compass as Japan does. Japan just needs to figure out how to sustain it.

Hey, you're a good guy and I'm sure that your heart is in the right place, but I think that you're really naïve about Japan. I resided there for over a year, learned the language and lived among Japanese people, and I know that it's far from being the almost utopic society that some people imagine it to be. I don't think that it's superior to any Western European country either.

First of all, as we've already alluded to, the work culture is brutal and for some people totally oppressive. I don't think that there's anything moral about that. Japanese politeness is an act for social harmony. In Japanese it's known as honne and tatemae 本音建前 (Kanji included for our Sinophile friend @WilliamSmith ) - true feelings vs. façade. In other words, people pretend to be nice and agreeable while hiding how they really feel because that's what's socially expected of them. Moreover, much Japanese sweetness is feigned too. In reality Japanese girls are almost as shallow and materialistic as American girls. Their true colors come out when you get to know them a bit better and the mask slips. As for cheating, it's as common as William says it is and I've seen it firsthand. It's just more under the radar because Japanese people value discretion and don't brag about their infidelity like Westerners do. Japan is indeed a safe country and has a low crime rate but I've never felt unsafe anywhere in Southern Europe, so Japan's level of safety isn't that significant unless we're comparing Japan to some extremely crime-ridden city or region. Japan also suffers from high levels of social alienation and dysfunction. Many of the country's particular social problems have been discussed at length by sociologists.

The reason why we have so divergent opinions on Japan is because we value different things in a society. You value strict order and conformity whereas I value living well, freedom and personal happiness.

That's why I love Mediterranean societies so much and regard the Mediterranean way of life as my ideal. Spain is my favorite European country. The pace of life is relaxed. People value enjoyment and family life and merrily partake in life's finer things such as delicious food and fine wine. Old people often say: "Se vive bien en España" (One lives well in Spain). The social climate is by and large generous and free-spirited, and people largely tolerate individual differences and self-expression (much more so than in Anglo countries). With almost no puritanism, less emphasis on competition for social status, and a less misandric social climate, it's also quite easy to date and get laid (not Peru level but still okay).

My conclusion, after living in various different countries, is that Mediterranean-style societies are the most conducive to happiness.

The problem with what you mentioned is that hours at the gym doesn’t benefit society at all unless the guy is going to be in the military, an athlete, or police. Providers are traditionally promoted by society because when their work is tied to their sexual success they will work much more effectively and productively. When all the young men in the country learn to tie their sexual success to career success this utilizes everybody’s productivity and a lot of shit gets done. This is why old fashioned Western society built itself up so much. It’s why Asia is still building while the West has fallen behind and is declining. The guy putting hours into the gym doesn’t really matter because his work only benefits him and satisfying women’s sexual appetites. It doesn’t do anything for civilization’s benefit. Some time in the gym can be beneficial because a healthy population is good but it’s not the same as a guy putting in work at an anime studio and creating a TV show that we can all enjoy or putting in hours building your house for you.

You seem to have this assumed dichotomy of "productive beta providers" vs. "non-productive primally masculine guys" but it doesn't hold up to reality. Most primally masculine guys engage in productive work too. It's just that some people don't make work the center of their lives or relate it to their identity and instead choose to invest a lot of their time and energy in other endeavors. Most people simply work out of necessity. They are motivated by the threat of homelessness and starvation. That includes primally masculine men too. So the beta provider type doesn't have any kind of monopoly on productivity. Primally masculine men usually have an income of their own too, even if it is more modest than that of a more career-focused beta provider type. But then, in addition to their (usually modest) income, they also have other qualities that are incredibly attractive to women. The truth is that they're more well-rounded men and therefore appeal more to a larger number of women. This often makes the beta provider types really bitter.

Besides, long working hours and intense work are not even necessary anymore. We now live in the high-tech 21st century. Technology has reduced the amount of work that needs to be done for the maintenance of civilization and most industrial operations are expected to be fully automated by the mid 2040s (as per technologist Ray Kurzweil's analysis). The beta provider type's virtue has already lost much of its currency and will likely continue to do so as technology advances and the need for labor diminishes. Things are not looking good for the beta. I therefore strongly advocate other forms of masculinity for the future. New material realities will require new masculinities. It is necessary for smart guys to adapt.

Beta provider masculinity gained currency after the start of the industrial revolution when the need for labor was extremely high (in previous times, when society was more warlike, warrior masculinity was highly valued). But now that we have reached a material stage of high-tech production and automation beta provider masculinity has lost currency and might even be in an obsolescent state.

That being said, any attitude can be taken too far and Japan does take its work culture too far. People should try to be as productive in as few hours as possible rather then praising people for being in the office until 8:00 when that same guy did barely anything and was probably sleeping part of the day until it was 5:00 and then he started working. No I don’t like almost any other part of German society but the way they approach work specifically is very smart. Be ultra productive while you are at work but go home early in the day. According to studies I’ve seen half of the time Americans and British people spend in the office is wasted. People only effectively work about 5 hours a day. It’s probably a lot worse in Japan. They are ranked as the least productive workers in the work for how many hours they are in the office. Why the hell are they in the office then? I’d rather start the day a couple hours later and give people six hours a day of extreme productivity and then let them leave. And give people a reasonable amount of vacation time.

Right. Work (i.e., menial tasks for the maintenance of civilization or a company) is just a practical matter or even a necessary evil and any sane society should try to reduce the workload of its people as much as possible through technology and sensible organization, notwithstanding the incessant tubthumping of the moralists of work who are hellbent on convincing us that drudgery has some kind of intrinsic moral value and a few weirdos who think that their office cubicle job somehow gives them validation. I view work as nothing more than a means to an end and believe that it should exist for the benefit of people and not the other way round. There really is no reason to glorify it.

[Lucas88]

That's totally factually incorrect: Primal masculinity is universally attractive to ALL women, of all races, period. They will often simply lack the ability to get a man who has it to begin with, hence settle for others, and also many women will settle for less on the primal masculinity side because they feel certain other qualities in the man are more important, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't want the man they consider a good LTR/marriage catch to have primal masculine appeal, they just usually settle.
But even a lot of the married women who keep the faith and don't cheat are into stuff like bodice ripper romance novels where it's always a bunch of primal masculine leading men they're fantasizing about and yearning for on some level even if they don't consider their marriage unhappy, so in theory if they got a traditional type husband they wanted who had primal masculine appeal as well as being a fit with her traditional side, he'd be the top pick by far. (In addition to the bodice ripper novels proving my point, this is also why there's so many legions of lonely churchgoing black women pining away for Denzel Washington, by the way, LOL.)

That's a good point. Most women indeed are attracted to primal masculinity regardless of race or culture but many settle for a regular guy because they have realistic expectations and assume that they are unable to get a primally masculine guy even though the desire for primal masculinity is still there, just like how many guys would like to marry a supermodel with large titties and a perfect hourglass figure but usually end up settling for an average girl since they know realistically that an average girl is the best they can get. What you wrote about Bodice Ripper novels is interesting. I'm sure that quite a lot of average women have sexual fantasies about primal masculinity, just like pretty much all average men jack off to primally feminine models. I'm sure that they are secretly turned on by men like Dwayne Johnson (aka The Rock)! Since women pine for primal masculinity but are unable to get it from most men, it makes it a very good sexual strategy and investment in my opinion. Beta provider men are a dime a dozen. Primal masculinity and peak physical fitness are comparatively rare.

The phenomenon of Asian girls disproportionately dating White guys more on the nerdier side might also be in part due to the girls settling for what they can get. As I mentioned in a previous post, I am under the impression that Asian girls are generally not very popular with White guys except for a minority of extremely fervent Asiaphiles. Here in the UK most guys who I speak to about racial preferences prefer White women and have no particular interest in Asian women. I found the same in Spain too where most guys seem to like European women or Latinas and pay little attention to Asian women. Asian women strike me as quite humble about their status too. Many of them admire Caucasian aesthetics and Asian women would constantly tell me how they think that White women are extremely beautiful. In light of this, most Asian women probably think that they can't compete with top-tier White women (who are being chased by almost all Western men including the high-status and most desirable ones), so they decide to stay in their own lane so to speak and largely go after nerdier White guys who they likely see as a more realistic match, especially if they are the type who considers any White guy to be preferable to an Asian guy. If this is correct, then Asian women and nerdier White guys would be like a reciprocal niche preference pair.

But you're also making a mistake in assuming that the type of girls @Lucas88 or I (or possibly @MarcusZeitola) but I don't know if revealing his income was ever a factor for him, even though he seems to agree it's better to get in relationships with women who are actually genuinely attracted to you) can get are less loyal, or necessarily more promiscuous, which isn't necessarily the case at all:
From what I've seen, all have had women staying for a much longer period of time when there was some kind of a relationship going on, hence some of the women we get cannot be said to be less loyal, and the sluttiness factor is a third variable. Also, Lucas88 told us he likes gym-maxxing and got into giving his Latina massive orgasms, but it was actually his choice to be non-monogamous, not hers (i.e. after he went way more alpha on her and started taking the lead, when previously he'd been having problems with her I believe he told us).

My Peruvian ex-girlfriend was extremely loyal and monogamous and was totally disgusted by any kind of cheating. When I met here, she was just finishing her master's degree at the University of Valencia. She was completely self-sufficient and had no gold-digger tendencies.

When we first started dating, I had no idea how to handle a woman. I had no previous relationship experience and ended up acting like too much of a beta nice guy since that was in line with the pussified "education" that I'd received about respecting women and such. A few months into the relationship, my Latina started to walk all over me. That was her primary defect - she was never a gold-digger or a cheater, but she was somewhat selfish and always wanted to have own way. In hindsight I understand that women rarely respect betas or beta behavior and crave a dominant man who will take the lead and make himself be respected.

We separated due to the continuous quarrels but then she wanted me back. I offered her only a FWB arrangement and she accepted. This time I adopted a much more dominant alpha approach and she was much more receptive to it. She showed me a lot more respect and acted much more submissive. Things went better than before. However, our FWB arrangement didn't progress to anything more serious. There were irreconcilable differences with regard to values and religion for a start (I was just sick of hearing about her Jewdeo-Christian slave religion and having to put up with her sanctimonious tub-thumping friends and acquaintances from her weird Yankee SDA church) and my interest in relationships had just disappeared completely. Eventually we parted ways amicably and continue to keep in touch to this day.

And yes, as academic and religious as she was, she still loved primal masculinity. She admired my physical fitness, loved that I was into MMA, was extremely turned on by my sexual aggressiveness, and loved how I would make love to her vigorously for hours on end.

[Outcast9428]

@Lucas88

Your theory that Asian girls are only going for nerdy guys because the other guys are not into them is definitely not true. Florida men will f**k anything with a pulse and they're not shy about it. They hit on every girl you can think of. My girlfriend got hit on every day that I wasn't with her. Even when I was with her, she got hit on several times. Every type of guy you can think of hit on her. My ex definitely never felt like there was a certain kind of guy she could not get. She knew she was a very attractive girl and while I don't believe she was ever vain or mean about it, she did have a little bit of an entitlement complex. She seemed to think she deserved whatever she wanted. She is definitely not the kind of girl to settle for something that isn't exactly what she wants. It was her most annoying trait in my opinion because it meant we could never stay in a reasonable, normal hotel like Holiday Inn or something, it had to be places like the Grand Hyatt or the Hilton hotel. Sometimes I'd say "we're going to stay in this hotel" and then she'd say "I'll research a hotel myself and get back to you." And then I'd learn she had booked a hotel completely on her own. She never asked me to pay her for my portion of the hotel, but I still didn't really like it because it just reeked of excess to me.

Also Florida is absolutely filled with dominant, sexually aggressive men. That's practically the only type of man who exists in Florida unless we're talking about the Asian guys. And the dominant, aggressive kind of guys hit on my girlfriend constantly. Every f***ing day. I hated it so much. All that being said, when we met, she could've chosen any other guy in the bar we were in. By far, I was the softest, nerdiest looking guy there. Yet she came up to me. I didn't go up to her, she was the one who talked to me, and when we were done hanging out (like three hours later) and I had to go for the night and ultimately head back to Virginia she said "please make sure to text me and call me okay?" So I left Florida, but I did text her, and eventually I came back. We went out on real dates, and I asked her to be my girlfriend.

Why would she have singled me out like that? There was probably a hundred guys in that bar, and she could've gone for any guy in the days prior to meeting me who hit on her, but she chose me. And I don't walk around wearing expensive stuff, there's nothing that would've indicated that I was rich. And when we were dating, I heard her talk about her previous boyfriends as well as crushes she had in middle and high school. She's never really been into that type of guy. Her crushes were on guys like Justin Bieber when he was a sensitive teenager, Toby McGuire in Spider Man, and young Justin Timberlake. Every guy she's dated has been a smart guy. I have no doubt in my mind that intelligence is a must have for her.

The truth is, we have a very different moral framework. For me, the way your Peruvian girlfriend acted is completely morally unacceptable. I hate girls that try to "test their man's dominance" through playing stupid mind games and acting bitchy on purpose. As for you, you would consider my ex girlfriend's gold digger tendencies to be morally unacceptable. For me, though, I didn't feel like it was that bad. She definitely takes it too far but the concept itself doesn't bother me. Even if she isn't perfect, I still think she's leaps and bounds better then the average Florida girl who f***s these guys who look like they belong on the cast of the Jersey Shore.

I also had a really strong friendship with an Asian girl I knew in college. She was dating a guy who didn't go to our school, he was a real geek. But he knew I was trustworthy and would never try to poach his girlfriend so I don't think he felt threatened by me hanging out with her at all. But she outright told me "I love geeky guys, they're the only guys I really feel a connection with, and they're the nicest too." Once again, I think its the intelligence thing. This girl was ridiculously smart. Like seriously, the most intelligent female I've ever met in my life. If she was on this forum, her posts would be just as long, detailed, full of studies and statistics as mine are. That's how she speaks in real life, everything is a percentage or number of some kind. She'd be like "35% of the guys in my class are like this." Stuff like that.

Our friendship fell apart though because her opinions are kind of left-leaning liberal I'd say. She said she didn't like feminism or political correctness but she wasn't politically incorrect in any meaningful way so she thought I had become too radical towards the end of our friendship. I said all the same stuff to her that I say to y'all, including the whole "women should be at home and not have careers" thing. I think that one was too much for her. When I just focused on how much I didn't like degeneracy she didn't care but the hardcore anti-feminism went too far for her. Its part of why I ended up falling so hard for my ex because I could say stuff like that around her and she didn't mind it at all (mainly because she wanted to be taken care of herself). I've never met a girl who let me get away with voicing so many controversial opinions.

Also I will say, when I was in Florida, the Asian girls there are still all dating nerdy guys, whether nerdy Asian guys or nerdy White guys. They dress really sexy for them too. Like you'll see an Asian girl in a miniskirt and go go boots walking arm in arm with an Asian guy wearing an anime T-shirt. I actually felt like the Floridian Asian girls have more of an in-group preference then most Asian girls do. Because the vast majority of Asian girls in Florida seemed to be with Asian guys. You don't see the Asian girl, White guy pairing there as often as you do in Virginia. When you do though, its pretty much always with a nerdy looking guy. They're not common in Florida but they still do exist down there surprisingly enough .

Seeing how the Asians behave in Florida is what really showed me that they're just different from everyone else. Its definitely genetics because Asian girls in Florida have the easiest access to dominant, aggressive guys imaginable yet they never seem to go for them.

I've said before to you and WilliamSmith, the dating market is about supply and demand. If you're a dominant, aggressive guy, then in an actual Asian country, you have no competition. None of the men there are like that so the girls there who are into that kind of guy will immediately try to snatch him up because there practically aren't any guys who are like that in Asian countries. This isn't because most of the girls there are desperate for it, it means that a certain group of girls are. Those girls would probably feel like they're in heaven if they ever went to Florida. But practically none of the Asian girls I saw in Florida were with guys like that.

Ask yourselves this though, if all the guys there are like that... How do you think that came to be? The girls there had to have selected for it somehow or those kind of guys wouldn't be so predominant there.

[Outcast9428]

Your theory that Asian girls are only going for nerdy guys because the other guys are not into them is definitely not true. Florida men will f**k anything with a pulse and they're not shy about it. They hit on every girl you can think of. My girlfriend got hit on every day that I wasn't with her. Even when I was with her, she got hit on several times. Every type of guy you can think of hit on her. My ex definitely never felt like there was a certain kind of guy she could not get.

Some girls specifically go for guys they deem a little softer or less threatening in behavior or appearance because they perceive such men to be kinder and less likely to cheat on them or break their hearts. A man who looks like he could have his pick of girls and may have a wandering eye could scare some girls. So a sexually aggressive and masculine guy may scare off certain girls. Overall, however, if you go to Asian countries, you would find that the majority of white sexpats do not really fit that bill, so the few men who are sexually attractive will likely stand out in the crowd, and will likely do well. Its also a matter of what type of asian girl you want; if you want a more "typical" Asian girl as opposed to one who is, by her nation's standards, the cream of the crop, you'll naturally have more competition. And if competition is an issue, standing out may be a good thing.

I definitely believe that some Asian girls like guys who are a bit more "stereotypically masculine". My ex was crazy about my broad hairy chest and my strong arms, she wanted me to cut my hair in the style of the actors on the show "Vikings" and encouraged me to grow my beard, which she wanted to braid. She'd compare me to the partners of her friends and would remark about my masculinity, which she considered extremely attractive. And yet, in the end, I lost her to a "nerdy guy" who happened to make about three times more money than I did... So in the end, what really mattered to her, was it the raw animal magnetism of a "masculine man" or was it a nerdy, soft dude with much deeper pockets who could take her places and give her things I couldn't give her? Life's strange, really. And even when you think you find a woman who seems perfect, I have discovered that they can grow discontent and that what you can offer her, really matters sometimes. She never struck me as a golddigger but suddenly, what I could give her wasn't good enough anymore. And all the "sex appeal" in the world couldn't save my ass when that happened lol.

In the end, different girls want different things. Asian girls are definitely not "immune" to a sexually desirable man, but they can also be quite calculating and look 'beyond' that, look at future potential, what he earns, what he is expected to earn in the future, the overall trajectory of his life... and if it doesn't go the direction she wants it to go, she can jump ship, just as easily as any other race of girl, if not easier. Which is kind of terrifying, because you'll find that as a man, you're quite... disposable, at times. You think you have leverage over a girl, you think you have what it takes, you think you're rock solid and it turns out, you just aren't. I've had to harden my heart against the pain of rejection, the pain of things ending, because things aren't always what they seem and one minute you can feel secure, the next, all may be lost. It's crazy.

Asian girls have this reputation of standing by their man through thick and thin... I'm not even sure anymore how true this is. And the more intelligent and capable the girl is on her own, the less she may feel like she "needs" you, to be in her life, to give her direction. Perhaps my lack of ambition is what failed her, and ultimately my marriage. It's hard to really pin-point. But I felt that giving her the basics was enough, was sufficient, and it simply wasn't. And we grow older, and things change. Perceptions change. I think a lot of the "nerdy guys" you see with Asian girlfriends and wives are pretty big earners. Quite a large number work in IT and its a sector that pays well, on average. That might just be their biggest selling point, rather than intelligence; you have plenty of intelligent guys who work dead-end jobs and earn very little, and their intelligence alone isn't enough to interest the majority of Asian girls. Whereas a smart fellow who happens to be a nerd and works in the computer field, well, they sort of congregate together, don't they? That's my theory, anyway.

Yeah, I have no doubts that my ex was satisfied in the bedroom. The sex just got better and better for both of us as our relationship went on. I'm not aggressive at all in the bedroom but I do have a very romantic, passionate way of making love that she really liked. At the end of our relationship though, she told me there were three problems. One was that I wasn't making enough money to really provide the kind of lifestyle she wanted. The second was that she didn't want to leave Florida, but I hated Florida. The third was the age gap, her being so much older then me. She said though, that if just one of the three problems wasn't there, that she would have overlooked the other two. She said the money was important because of the age gap. She was older, and she needed to have a baby right now, but I didn't own a house yet nor really make enough yet to support a family. She said if she was younger it wouldn't have mattered because she knew I was going to do well in life, but that she just doesn't have time to wait until I could. If I had the money necessary, the age gap wouldn't matter. She also said, if I my personality hadn't clashed with Florida so badly, that she would've overlooked the other issues but she couldn't leave her parents to be with me and that "things were going too fast and too slow at the same time."

The reality of dating Asian girls is that they are the most pragmatic. Asian girls are not the type of girls who will say "f**k everything I want to be with this man and nothing will stop me from being with him." All the personality and sex appeal in the world will not save you if an Asian girl thinks you can't provide the kind of lifestyle she wants. On one hand, this sounds anti-romantic. But when you are the guy an Asian girl wants, they are so affectionate, loving, loyal, free with their attention, and passionate that they feel like the most romantic girls out there. Asian girls really know how you to make you feel like she is your companion and she will support you in your mission as best she can. Moreso then anything though, I feel free to be myself around Asian girls. Whether as friends or as girlfriends, Asian girls are so easy for me to talk to and have a connection with.

So I feel like, so what if they want me to make a certain amount of money? I can do that, and its objectively good for us anyway. The "primal attraction" girls on the other hand are asking me to violate what I think is right and wrong, they're asking me to support a relationship dynamic that I think is really unromantic and dysfunctional for the sake of sex appeal and I'm not gonna do that. I don't want to act like some aloof, distant guy for the rest of my life just because a lot of girls think its sexy when a guy acts like he doesn't need them. I want a girl who will let me express my affection for her freely and not act like there's something unattractive about me being a decent guy.

[Outcast9428]

@MarcosZeitola You are definitely right though that different girls want different things. The same is true of guys. I mean, my friend posted a girl the other day who he said was a 9/10. I looked at her and thought she seemed like a 5/10 to me. I don't know why so many guys seem determined to act like one specific thing is universal to all girls in the world. Or the whole phrase "all women are like that." My personal experiences show plenty of cases of girls not behaving the way all the different ideologies out there say they would behave. No ideology really has it right if they are trying to say "girls all want this" because that's just not true. Girls' preferences vary just as widely as men's preferences. I mean, I've met men who actually like fat girls. I don't get that at all, it makes no sense to me but they're out there and they're not even that rare.

[Lucas88]

Your theory that Asian girls are only going for nerdy guys because the other guys are not into them is definitely not true. Florida men will f**k anything with a pulse and they're not shy about it. They hit on every girl you can think of. My girlfriend got hit on every day that I wasn't with her. Even when I was with her, she got hit on several times. Every type of guy you can think of hit on her. My ex definitely never felt like there was a certain kind of guy she could not get. She knew she was a very attractive girl and while I don't believe she was ever vain or mean about it, she did have a little bit of an entitlement complex. She seemed to think she deserved whatever she wanted. She is definitely not the kind of girl to settle for something that isn't exactly what she wants. It was her most annoying trait in my opinion because it meant we could never stay in a reasonable, normal hotel like Holiday Inn or something, it had to be places like the Grand Hyatt or the Hilton hotel. Sometimes I'd say "we're going to stay in this hotel" and then she'd say "I'll research a hotel myself and get back to you." And then I'd learn she had booked a hotel completely on her own. She never asked me to pay her for my portion of the hotel, but I still didn't really like it because it just reeked of excess to me.

I don't want to sound mean because I know that you have fond memories of your ex-girlfriend, but I think that you dodged a bullet there. I can understand why a woman would want you to have your own place and be able to support a kid. That's only practical. However, an obsession with luxuries - especially in conjunction with an entitlement complex - is certainly not a good sign. That type of girl isn't likely to be very loyal as @WilliamSmith has already iterated. In fact, they are not likely to be any more loyal than the women that William and I like and are probably in most cases less loyal. With materialistic girls, as soon as the luxuries stop, they begin to lose interest and will bail on you. They're the most unreliable. If you decide to go down that path, make sure you have a strong prenuptial agreement in place, no matter how "unromantic" the girl "with gold-digger tendencies" might think it is.

Why would she have singled me out like that? There was probably a hundred guys in that bar, and she could've gone for any guy in the days prior to meeting me who hit on her, but she chose me. And I don't walk around wearing expensive stuff, there's nothing that would've indicated that I was rich. And when we were dating, I heard her talk about her previous boyfriends as well as crushes she had in middle and high school. She's never really been into that type of guy. Her crushes were on guys like Justin Bieber when he was a sensitive teenager, Toby McGuire in Spider Man, and young Justin Timberlake. Every guy she's dated has been a smart guy. I have no doubt in my mind that intelligence is a must have for her.

I think that the reason why girls like her go for nerdy guys could be something along the lines of what @MarcosZeitola theorized: they might perceive nerdy guys as more monogamous and less likely to cheat like the popular masculine guys are. That would make sense if the guys in Florida and in the US in general really are as promiscuous as you say they are. Those guys might have some primally masculine traits that even most monogamous women find attractive but prudent monogamous girls will prefer to stay away from those guys nevertheless because they know how volatile and unreliable many of those guys are. They've probably already heard countless "bad boy" horror stories. That still doesn't mean that they are not attracted to primal masculinity though and would probably like a guy to have those traits in conjunction with reliability (i.e., the full package). Primal masculinity is attractive to so many women because it's an evolutionary development that has allowed our species to survive for so many millennia. It's just that, with so many unreliable "bad boys" (i.e., defective alphas) around today, some women are not willing to take the chance, even though plenty of primally masculine men are still perfectly reliable and well-adapted.

The truth is, we have a very different moral framework. For me, the way your Peruvian girlfriend acted is completely morally unacceptable. I hate girls that try to "test their man's dominance" through playing stupid mind games and acting bitchy on purpose. As for you, you would consider my ex girlfriend's gold digger tendencies to be morally unacceptable. For me, though, I didn't feel like it was that bad. She definitely takes it too far but the concept itself doesn't bother me. Even if she isn't perfect, I still think she's leaps and bounds better then the average Florida girl who f***s these guys who look like they belong on the cast of the Jersey Shore.

I don't know whether my Peruvian ex-girlfriend was intentionally playing mind games and trying to test my dominance or whether she was genuinely disgusted by weak beta behavior and simply reacted in accordance with her emotions. I spoke to a Latina friend of mine about my ex-girlfriend's behavior, and she basically told me that practically all Latinas expect the man to lead and look upon non-leaderlike behavior with contempt. I think that the latter explanation is plausible. I remember when my ex-girlfriend once became upset with me because I asked her to choose which restaurant to eat at. She refused to talk to me. Later she told me that the man should choose where to eat because he is the leader and that a man asking his girlfriend to make such decisions comes across as weak and unworthy of respect. Nobody had ever taught me about Latina psychology or female psychology in general. All I had was my pussified European "education". Things got a lot better the second time round when I adopted a much more dominant approach though. She behaved for the most part and treated me with a lot more respect.

I also realized that the best way to deal with her tantrums was to wait until we got back to the apartment and then just throw her onto the bed, mount her and start passionately kissing her. At first she would resist and tell me: "No, I'm pissed off with you, you're not having any kisses!", but then she would always give in without exception and we would end up passionately making love and she would become playful and submissive for the rest of the night. I actually enjoyed those occurrences. In retrospect I should have intentionally pissed her off more!

[Lucas88]

Ask yourselves this though, if all the guys there are like that... How do you think that came to be? The girls there had to have selected for it somehow or those kind of guys wouldn't be so predominant there.

The guys in Florida are so promiscuous because they can get away with it. The reasons are twofold: 1) material conditions which allow for sexual liberalism, and 2) a culture that promotes it.

I'm sure that many Japanese men would like to be that promiscuous if they could get away with it because they are men after all, but the material conditions of their country make it difficult (unless the man is an exceptionally rare stud). Japan aggressively promotes beta provider masculinity and makes income and professional status the be-all end-all. This is the result of social engineering which aims to limit sexual access to enthusiastic worker drones and curtail all other sexual strategies. This is why the overwhelming majority of Japanese men take the beta provider approach, even though they still have fantasies about fcuking many different women.

In the West, sexual liberalism emerged only because the material conditions of society allowed for it to occur. In the latter half of the 20th century production technology became so advanced that the need for arduous and relentless work radically diminished and so people could now afford to live sexually liberal lives without any serious threat to civilization's survival. In other words, following the rapid material advancements of the industrial revolution and the mechanization and automation that came out of those, beta provider masculinity lost much of its previous currency and other forms of masculinity began to gain currency. This trend has only accelerated in the 21st century. Some catastrophists in the RedPill movement talk about the imminent collapse of civilization because of the alienation of beta males, but that's not going to happen. The elites are ready to automate most industrial operations within the next few decades. That's one of the reasons why they desire population reduction. The surplus of workers has become useless for their economic goals.

My point is that, from the perspective of civilization maintenance, beta provider masculinity has become semi-obsolete, or has at least lost the importance that it once had. The West accepted this and became full-on sexually liberal while Japan decided to keep the previous beta provider masculinity (even if in Japan a lot of the "hard work" in the office consists of looking busy and pretending to work).

In the high-tech 21st century with all of its mechanization and automation, the productive operations of civilization will still continue to function regardless of what kind of masculinity predominates. The question of which kind of masculinity is to be promoted therefore becomes a matter of cultural values and ideals. The primally masculine alphas and certain other attractive types of men are usually okay with sexual liberalism because they are able to flourish fine in that kind of society. I'm not generally a cynical person but I suspect that a significant subset of the beta provider masculinists who identify as "tradcons" wish to impose a system of socially enforced Japanese-style beta provider masculinity upon everyone else because they secretly want to force everyone else to play by their rules and thereby give themselves the advantage. It's just an attempt at a power grab by the betas. They just want to demonize other forms of masculinity and discredit the competition.