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112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Discuss religion and spirituality topics.

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Neo
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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Neo » December 1st, 2019, 6:39 pm

Pinayhunter wrote:
July 28th, 2019, 5:16 pm
I started in Matthew yesterday, and I’ve already found some verses that seem to hint at lordship salvation. I still believe we’re saved by faith alone, but I’m having trouble reconciling these verses.

Mat 3:10 - And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

I’m assuming the tree symbolizes a person and the fruit symbolizes works.

Mat 5:29 - And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Most commentators agree that “offend” means “cause to sin.”

Mat 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:


So if you don’t do those things, you can’t be God’s child?
How are you now?
Salvation is the free gift of God simply for believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and it can't be lost; the only repentance necessary is the change of mind from unbelief to belief, because salvation is not about turning from sin because it is without works. Jesus, the Savior kept all the commandments in absolute perfection for us, ∴ salvation is without works, and He died for our sins, taking the eternal penalty for us.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Pinayhunter » December 4th, 2019, 7:16 am

Neo wrote:
December 1st, 2019, 6:39 pm
Pinayhunter wrote:
July 28th, 2019, 5:16 pm
I started in Matthew yesterday, and I’ve already found some verses that seem to hint at lordship salvation. I still believe we’re saved by faith alone, but I’m having trouble reconciling these verses.

Mat 3:10 - And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

I’m assuming the tree symbolizes a person and the fruit symbolizes works.

Mat 5:29 - And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Most commentators agree that “offend” means “cause to sin.”

Mat 5:44 - But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 - That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:


So if you don’t do those things, you can’t be God’s child?
How are you now?
Not bad. How have you been?

I just read a fascinating book called The Anti-Gospel. The author tries to disprove the idea that man has a free will to choose belief in Christ. It’s basically the Calvinist view of salvation, although he rejects the label of Calvinism.

Some relevant verses:

Jhn 6:39 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Plus the phrase “born again” as well as the entire chapter of Romans 9.

The author’s a flat Earther too. I thought that was interesting.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Neo » December 4th, 2019, 8:06 am

Salvation is by faith alone in Christ. God foreknew everyone who would believe and everyone who would not believe (including those who would be rejected).

Since God dwells in eternity, He already knows the outcome. He also knows our souls better than we know ourselves. He knows exactly what kind of person we are.

People don't get saved because they love evil more than good. This is how and why many people don't get saved: they love evil more than good, as Jesus alludes to in John 3:19-20. Also see Romans 1:18-32.

God foreknew who would reject the love of the truth in favor of wickedness since before creation. It just means He already knew. He's omniscient.

He ordained for us to be holy, meaning He wants us to keep the commandments.

As for Romans 9, verses 30-33 also show that salvation is by faith and not by the law. I can't see how it could be Calvinist.

Our Free Will is our individual choices to do good or to do evil. Choosing evil leads to death. Choosing the good leads to life.

Born again just means the person is saved; now part of God's family (a child of God rather than a bastard), and has a place in the Kingdom of God. The first time we are born into this world. The second time we are reborn into the Kingdom of God by the power of God (See John 3:5-7; Titus 3:5).

You should go online and see if Steven Anderson is having any soul winning marathons coming up soon. You could meet up with dozens to hundreds of soul winners.
Salvation is the free gift of God simply for believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and it can't be lost; the only repentance necessary is the change of mind from unbelief to belief, because salvation is not about turning from sin because it is without works. Jesus, the Savior kept all the commandments in absolute perfection for us, ∴ salvation is without works, and He died for our sins, taking the eternal penalty for us.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by MrMan » December 4th, 2019, 9:23 pm

Hebrews 3:14
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

I Corinthians 15
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Neo » December 4th, 2019, 10:10 pm

Salvation is a one time event. Once a person believes, then he is saved. It isn't an ongoing continuous thing where, if you have a doubt one day or commit a sin then you're rejected. It doesn't work that way, but many people who believe they're Christians (but are not*) are deceived and believe that salvation can be lost. It cannot be lost. Christ said He would in no wise cast anyone out, and we're all sealed until the Day of Redemption.

For anyone that comes to this thread, you must keep in mind, that there are different forms of "Christianity" that are distractions from the true faith, that have an outer covering of Christianity but are not true Christianity, but rather work-salvation (salvation by the law/ commandments) disguised as faith alone Christianity.

Don't let anyone distract you into believing in your own works with verses that reference enduring to the end to be saved. Enduring to the end to be saved refers to suffering persecution or trouble in this life. Those verses are not about eternal salvation. He's just saying don't give up when you're suffering.

*Anyone who trusts in their own works to be saved has rejected salvation by faith in Jesus Christ, having made their own works equal to that of Christ, and therefore salvation will not be imputed (and in essence is saying that he is a co-equal God like Jesus, to trust in his own works). That denies the work of Christ, and it denies Jesus as the Savior / Messiah / Christ / Redeemer. Jesus as the Son of God is the Savior. A person cannot trust in his own works. It isn't half the person's works and half Christ, because a person would have to be God in the flesh (Jesus) in order to be saved by his own works. Therefore we know that any verse that says "endurance til the end" is not about eternal salvation but about earthly turmoil.

God expects us to keep his commandments, but we don't trust in ourselves keeping the commandments for our eternal salvation. Because no person can be justified by the law, because then even one sin would end that person, and no one can do this, except for God, which is why He sent His only begotten Son to keep the law for us in His perfection, and then He took the penalty for any sins we still commit, by dying on the cross for us.
Salvation is the free gift of God simply for believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and it can't be lost; the only repentance necessary is the change of mind from unbelief to belief, because salvation is not about turning from sin because it is without works. Jesus, the Savior kept all the commandments in absolute perfection for us, ∴ salvation is without works, and He died for our sins, taking the eternal penalty for us.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by MrMan » December 5th, 2019, 4:51 pm

Luke 8
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

@

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Pinayhunter » December 5th, 2019, 8:18 pm

Yes, we’re saved through faith and not works. But what is the source of that faith? Why does God reveal Himself to some and not others?

According to Arminians like Stephen Anderson, every person has the opportunity to get saved. It’s just a matter of being good enough or smart enough. God, being omniscient, simply peers through eternity and chooses his elect based on the choices He knew they would make out of their own free will.

What Edward Hendrie is saying is that man, being completely dead in sin, has no free will to choose. It’s only by the grace of God that anyone is awakened to the truth and is able to believe. Not because we deserve it, but because God has ordained it. God is the author and finisher of our faith. He controls the very hearts and minds of men.

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Neo » December 5th, 2019, 10:12 pm

Pinayhunter wrote:
December 5th, 2019, 8:18 pm
Yes, we’re saved through faith and not works. But what is the source of that faith? Why does God reveal Himself to some and not others?

According to Arminians like Stephen Anderson, every person has the opportunity to get saved. It’s just a matter of being good enough or smart enough. God, being omniscient, simply peers through eternity and chooses his elect based on the choices He knew they would make out of their own free will.

What Edward Hendrie is saying is that man, being completely dead in sin, has no free will to choose. It’s only by the grace of God that anyone is awakened to the truth and is able to believe. Not because we deserve it, but because God has ordained it. God is the author and finisher of our faith. He controls the very hearts and minds of men.

Exodus 7:13 And he hardened Pharaoh's heart, that he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Daniel 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Matthew 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

Matthew 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.

Ephesians 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
God can turn the heart. This is true. But in regards to salvation, people make the choice, by choosing whether they love good or evil.

See John 3:19-20, Psalm 50:23, Romans 1:18-32, Proverbs 20:11, Jeremiah 17:10, Matthew 13 (especially when He talks about sifting and severing, wheat and weeds; wicked vs just), and Acts 10: All KJV.
Salvation is the free gift of God simply for believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and it can't be lost; the only repentance necessary is the change of mind from unbelief to belief, because salvation is not about turning from sin because it is without works. Jesus, the Savior kept all the commandments in absolute perfection for us, ∴ salvation is without works, and He died for our sins, taking the eternal penalty for us.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Winston » December 11th, 2019, 1:14 pm

What about these verses that say the opposite?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37308

Also, think about this: If one could be saved and receive a guaranteed ticket to heaven and immortality, simply by praying the sinner's prayer for 5 minutes and asking Jesus to come into your heart, then why did the Pilgrims and Puritans in the 1600's have to live such a pure, austere, strict life with so many rules? What's the point of that?

Do you think those Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers also believed that salvation is permanent and can be had by simply praying the sinner's prayer?

What about Queen Elizabeth I? What about Martin Luther of the Reformation? Research it. I highly doubt they believed in the modern form of Christianity invented in the 1800's and was "made in the USA" and thus a modern invention.

Most Americans assume that Evangelical Christianity is 2000 years old and goes back to the original Christians. But that's not true at all. In fact, there's never been a golden age of Christianity where every Christian believed the same things. Christianity was sharply divided from the get go - first between Paul and James and then later Arian, Maricion, Gnostics, etc. Christians have never been unified.

It's always made more sense that your actions count. What you do counts. And that God weighs your good actions and bad actions both, because they both matter. That's common sense. It fits the law of karma too. To claim that actions don't count is ludicrous and cult-like.
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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Neo » December 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

Winston wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 1:14 pm
What about these verses that say the opposite?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37308

Also, think about this: If one could be saved and receive a guaranteed ticket to heaven and immortality, simply by praying the sinner's prayer for 5 minutes and asking Jesus to come into your heart, then why did the Pilgrims and Puritans in the 1600's have to live such a pure, austere, strict life with so many rules? What's the point of that?

Do you think those Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers also believed that salvation is permanent and can be had by simply praying the sinner's prayer?

What about Queen Elizabeth I? What about Martin Luther of the Reformation? Research it. I highly doubt they believed in the modern form of Christianity invented in the 1800's and was "made in the USA" and thus a modern invention.

Most Americans assume that Evangelical Christianity is 2000 years old and goes back to the original Christians. But that's not true at all. In fact, there's never been a golden age of Christianity where every Christian believed the same things. Christianity was sharply divided from the get go - first between Paul and James and then later Arian, Maricion, Gnostics, etc. Christians have never been unified.

It's always made more sense that your actions count. What you do counts. And that God weighs your good actions and bad actions both, because they both matter. That's common sense. It fits the law of karma too. To claim that actions don't count is ludicrous and cult-like.


The Romans couldn't beat the Christians, so it was decided that a hybrid form of Christianity would be adopted, part pagan, part Christian, which is the Catholic Church. It is not Christian. Take a look at a thread from a few years ago by Adama entitled "Poor Catholics Do not know...".

When Jesus says He is building His Church upon a rock, He isn't talking about Peter. He is saying that salvation is granted when someone believes that Jesus is the Son of God (the Messiah, The Savior, the Christ, the Redeemer), which is what they were talking about. Catholicism has fallen for delusions. Peter wasn't a pope.

Read the Bible, especially the New Testament. It's clear that salvation is by faith alone. I've already posted the relevant verses above.

Unfortunately, lots of people are deceived. Many will not find the narrow way to life.

Of course actions and works count. Just because a person is saved by faith in Christ, it doesn't exempt them from punishment. Just their punishment isn't everlasting torment, but rather loss of rewards in heaven and possible punishment in this life. In other words, the rewards in eternity are then determined by our works.

Also, even though we don't trust in our works to get us saved, God knows the heart of every person, and if a person is thoroughly detestable in God's eyes, then He will not offer salvation to that person, based upon that person's previous works. A person still has to be somewhat respectable for God to get him saved. In other words, good works do not save a person; however, abounding in evil works can make a person irredeemable to the point where God is no longer interested. So a person needs to refrain from loving to do evil, so as not to become a complete abomination before he can be offered salvation.

Once a person is saved, he is then under the yoke of God, and God also has a rod and a staff for those who believe in Him, to keep them from going too far. Reprobates are unrestrained, having broken the yokes and burst the bonds, and therefore abound in works which God hates. This is why they are rejected.

Many people for some reason are blind to what a salvation verse in the Bible is. As stated before elsewhere, a salvation verse has a structure such as: believe and be saved or has everlasting life, or counted righteous, or justified by faith. Many of the verses that unbelievers think are salvation verses have nothing to do with eternal salvation. Also, like other words, there is more than one meaning. For example, there is salvation from eternal death and hell which is eternal life, and then there is salvation from earthly turmoil and tribulation, which has nothing to do with eternal life.
Salvation is the free gift of God simply for believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and it can't be lost; the only repentance necessary is the change of mind from unbelief to belief, because salvation is not about turning from sin because it is without works. Jesus, the Savior kept all the commandments in absolute perfection for us, ∴ salvation is without works, and He died for our sins, taking the eternal penalty for us.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Neo » December 15th, 2019, 12:36 am

In work-salvation, or salvation by works, or "by being a good person" or whatever phrase a person chooses that equates to trusting in their own works, that person is saying that he saves himself by completing the commandments.

However, the rational mind knows that no one can be justified by the law. Why? Because no one can keep the entirety of the law from birth until death except for GOD IN THE FLESH - JESUS CHRIST, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. He is the only one whose works are completely righteous. This is why we must trust on His righteousness and not our own. This is why God the Father sent His Son to earth, to save all those who believe in Him.

Work salvation people are unknowingly, yet openly declaring that they don't accept or need Jesus, because they believe they can do it themselves, making themselves into their own Messiah, which is impossible. Only God in the flesh can be the Messiah, because only He could keep the law in perfection.

And also, because they refuse Jesus, who died for all sins, those who reject Him also have a penalty to pay, which they cannot afford (because they refused Jesus, the only one who can redeem the price of their sins).
Salvation is the free gift of God simply for believing that Jesus is the Son of God, and it can't be lost; the only repentance necessary is the change of mind from unbelief to belief, because salvation is not about turning from sin because it is without works. Jesus, the Savior kept all the commandments in absolute perfection for us, ∴ salvation is without works, and He died for our sins, taking the eternal penalty for us.

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Re: 112 Saved by faith alone salvation verses

Post by Pinayhunter » December 16th, 2019, 8:20 pm

Winston wrote:
December 11th, 2019, 1:14 pm
What about these verses that say the opposite?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=37308

Also, think about this: If one could be saved and receive a guaranteed ticket to heaven and immortality, simply by praying the sinner's prayer for 5 minutes and asking Jesus to come into your heart, then why did the Pilgrims and Puritans in the 1600's have to live such a pure, austere, strict life with so many rules? What's the point of that?

Do you think those Pilgrims and Puritans and Quakers also believed that salvation is permanent and can be had by simply praying the sinner's prayer?

What about Queen Elizabeth I? What about Martin Luther of the Reformation? Research it. I highly doubt they believed in the modern form of Christianity invented in the 1800's and was "made in the USA" and thus a modern invention.

Most Americans assume that Evangelical Christianity is 2000 years old and goes back to the original Christians. But that's not true at all. In fact, there's never been a golden age of Christianity where every Christian believed the same things. Christianity was sharply divided from the get go - first between Paul and James and then later Arian, Maricion, Gnostics, etc. Christians have never been unified.

It's always made more sense that your actions count. What you do counts. And that God weighs your good actions and bad actions both, because they both matter. That's common sense. It fits the law of karma too. To claim that actions don't count is ludicrous and cult-like.
We (God’s elect/sheep/children) are saved through faith by grace alone. We do good works because we’re saved, not to earn salvation. Those good works are prepared by God in advance for us to perform.

“I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.” - John 15:5

“For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” - Ephesians 2:10

Here’s the order of things:
God grants grace to spiritually dead person whom He chose before the foundation of the world -> person is saved/“born again” through faith in Jesus Christ -> person produces good works meet for repentance

Salvation isn’t something that can be lost. If someone says they were saved but then goes on to live like a reprobate, that’s a good indication they were never saved to begin with.

There’s nothing we can do to save ourselves. Uzza laid his hands on the Ark of the Covenant, and God killed him for it. We are not to lay our hands on the finished work of Christ. All the supposed righteous works of the heathen are worthless to the Lord.

I wouldn’t listen to that Gabriel guy. He doesn’t even believe God preserved His Word in English. I guess we all have to learn ancient Greek and Hebrew. He sounds like the serpent in Genesis 3 (“Yea, hath God said”).

Stick with the King James Bible. If you don’t understand a word, look it up in the 1828 Webster’s dictionary and compare different verses.

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