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The Native Speaker Hierarchy

Discuss working and making a living overseas, starting a business, or studying abroad.

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The Native Speaker Hierarchy

Postby ladislav » Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:41 pm

The Native Speaker Hierarchy

Do those overseas schools see you as a native speaker or not? This will affect your getting jobs within the ESL industry overseas, particularly in countries which do not have equal opportunity employment legislations and where people have insidious ideas of what kind of English teacher would be good for their schools, their students, themselves or their children. Therefore, to them, some are more native than others. Here is their ESL Native Speaker Hierarchy column unfolded. Based on this, you can assess your chances of getting hired in the ESL industry. Yes, it is discriminatory, but they are beyond the jurisdiction of the EOE commission.

Native Speaker -AAA class.

A white person with blond hair and blue eyes with a British name ( John Smith) and a passport from an “Angloâ€￾ country born and raised there, with diplomas and degrees from that country. Such a person will find no ethnic obstacles to being hired at all.

Native Speaker- AA class

A white person with or without blond hair and blue eyes with a North-Western European name ( German , French or Swedish, Dutch etc.- John Schmidt) and a passport from an “Angloâ€￾ country born and raised there, with diplomas and degrees from that country. Such a person will sometimes be asked-“Oh, is that an American name? Are your parents from the USA?â€￾ After a few questions, the person will be hired.

Native Speaker A class

A white (or whitish) person with or without blond hair and blue eyes with an Italian, E-European last name and a passport from an “Angloâ€￾ country ( Joe Kowalsky), born and raised there, with diplomas and degrees from that country. Such a person will often be asked-“Oh what name is that? That is not American. Are you really from the USA?â€￾ Such a person may occasionally be discriminated against in hiring.

Native Speaker BBB class

A white (or whitish) with a passport from an “Angloâ€￾ country, not born but possibly raised there, with diplomas and degrees from that country. An example would be a Hungarian immigrant to the US who came very young and who speaks English without a noticeable accent. Such people will be discriminated against more often than the ones above.

Native Speaker BB class.

A black or Hispanic person with a passport from an “Angloâ€￾ country, born and raised there, with diplomas and degrees from that country. Such people may be passed off for hiring in favor of the “upperâ€￾ classes of native speakers in quite a few place. These are not American enough.

Native Speaker B class

A whitish person who is a citizen of an Anglo country but not born or raised there without a degree from that country. Not easy to find work unless name is changed and the resume is padded up with a couple of degrees/certificates from the Anglo country.

Native Speaker CCC class

An Asian person from an Anglo country, born and raised there with diplomas and degrees from that country. He does not look American- the HR manager will say- is he an American? But he does not look like one. And the name! This is not an American name. Very often discriminated against.

Native Speaker CC class

A naturalized “Angloâ€￾ citizen, Black, Asian or Hispanic person with a degree from an Anglo country. Hard to find ESL work.

Native Speaker C class

A naturalized “Angloâ€￾ citizen. Black, Hispanic person or Asian person without a degree from an Anglo country. Really hard to find ESL work.

Beyond these categories, people are already considered non-native speakers and will not be advertised as such to students or hired as such.
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Postby Jester » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Thanks.

Do you adopt an Anglo nickname when submitting a resume?

Or is the application form, etc, too rigid for that?

(I ask because my first and last names are also "un-American", as it were.)
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Postby ladislav » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:05 pm

Jester wrote:Thanks.

Do you adopt an Anglo nickname when submitting a resume?

Or is the application form, etc, too rigid for that?

(I ask because my first and last names are also "un-American", as it were.)


Well, one thing is adopting those when you teach online, the other is applying for a visa and then submitting college transcripts and first page of passport for processing and then, also, they have to introduce you to students.

Also, there are non Anglo names that may fall within the limits of Americanness and some that lie beyond it- according to THEM.

Here comes Swami Bhavananda Rameshdivadatta, your American English teacher. Nah... no good.
Here comes Joe Ferri- OK.
Here comes Vladimir Nelshivinininsky- nah. Walt Neshvin- OK
Here comes Kim Byun Hyun- nah
Here comes Jose Rodriguez Sanchez- nah, please change to Joe Sanchez.
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Postby Cornfed » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:40 am

There is also a hierarchy among accents, with standard North American accents usually preferred, followed by standard English accents. Regional dialects and peripheral dialects such as South African and NZ English are not generally sought after. Similarly, they seem to prefer young, tall, big-titted, attractive single females to everyone else.
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Postby abcdavid01 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:47 am

x.
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Postby zboy1 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:43 am

Ladislav is unfortunately correct in his assessments. That doesn't mean if your non-White and a minority, that a teaching job is out of reach. You just have to try twice as hard as a White person to find a job.
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Re: The Native Speaker Hierarchy

Postby eurobrat » Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:50 am

...
Last edited by eurobrat on Sat May 25, 2013 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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white and heterosexual male privilege

Postby odbo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:39 am

zboy1 wrote:Ladislav is unfortunately correct in his assessments. That doesn't mean if your non-White and a minority, that a teaching job is out of reach. You just have to try twice as hard as a White person to find a job.

It's like opposite day. Because in Anglo countries if you're job hunting or looking for college scholarships, more often than not it's "sorry, white males need not apply".
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Postby ladislav » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:40 am

Answering one by one- I am using a Germanic- Dutch sounding name. It is somewhat OK and gave me few problems.

David Aronds sounds fine. Germanic. Physically, you can pass for a Hungarian or a Russian. I say apply. If they ask you why you look like this say your mom in Russian. To your own self be true - to others lie like hell ( if they oppress you)

This guide is mainly for Asia although I cannot think of someone named Kim Byun Hyun who would be accepted as an English teacher in Russia. A bit more liberal than Asia but still not that great.

E. Euros prefer Brits, Aussies, Canucks, NZers, Yanks in that order. E. Asians prefer Americans and Canucks but Brits are fine. The rest sound like Brits to them.

M Easterrners prefer anyone with a Western passport- the discrimination happens by companies- American companies there like hiring Yanks, British companies like Brits and Commonwealth people. Americans are 1st in line to get sacked.
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Postby odbo » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:48 am

Ladislav, how do they react to flamboyant effeminate fags with a lisp applying? And if they do get hired, do students get a discount for the trauma incurred? :lol:

I'm speaking of Asia of course. I'm guessing British-run companies in the Middle East love hiring fags and feminists, and the closet-homosexual students (Saudis) love them as well.
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Postby abcdavid01 » Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:55 am

xx
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Re: white and heterosexual male privilege

Postby eurobrat » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:47 am

...
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Postby eurobrat » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:51 am

....
Last edited by eurobrat on Sat May 25, 2013 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ladislav » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:44 pm

Wow Americans are last on the list? Canadians are before us? Has it gotten that bad out there for Americans?


In some situations and mostly in E. Europe and iff you want to teach Russian/Poles, and and also at British-run companies in the Middle East.

Who the hell likes Canadians???


Everyone-they look and sound ( kind of ) like Americans but have no bad reputation for imperialism, loud- mouthness, ill manners and brutal wars. Plus as Commonwealth members, the Brits adore them for being faithful lapdogs and filial sons.

You know your stuff. My European blood is mostly Hungarian. Thanks


Generally, I can tell E. Euros apart pretty well. This is what Eurasian kids should tell those school committees in Asia. Mention Hungarians. This will explain a Eurasian appearance.

I am an honest person but if I deal with prejudice and unfairness I will lie to protect my rights. Like if you had a Jewish grandfather and now sport a foot long hooked nose because of that and end up working in Saudi, and they ask you why your nose looks so Semitic, tell them about your "Armenian" grandfather. The same look.

flamboyant fa.g


A flamboyant f.ag would do fine if he toned down him camping-up and did not wear drags.
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Postby Renata » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:18 pm

ladislav I fall nowhere into your list lol
My nationality is Trinidadian from Trinidad & Tobago
I have a Caribbean accent but I'm able to control it when I slow my speech (Native English Speaker)
I look persian/arabic. That's what my turkish students say... I'm new to teaching esl though I've only done 1 year so far.
My first name is spanish & my surname is indian; Renata Marajh
I'm latin/indian mixed.

I agree with your Native Speaker Hierarchy list you're spot on ... but I think there are some countries where people like me can teach english easily. My list would be-
Turkey
Poland
Portugal
Spain (maybe)
Latin America
Azerbaijan
Kazakstan
Middle East

I think if I ventured into Western Europe or Asia it may be a challenge to find work as an ESL Teacher, but I may try just to see the outcome.
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