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I'm 80% through "Out of America, a black man confronts Africa". The author, a black American, spent a lot of time living in countries all over Africa as a journalist. From some of his accounts, it actually sounds like you get the downside but not upside of being black as a black western expat or tourist in many parts of Africa.
For example, in Kenya, whites would get preferential treatment in restaurants, by customs officials, etc. Not so for black Americans. But black Americans would sometimes get hassled more by beggars than whites since it was assumed that they would have more sympathy as a fellow brother. I noticed a similar dynamic in Haiti (majority of population descendants of west Africans), many poor locals were too proud to ask for help from whitey, but they would readily approach apparently well-off locals and black tourists with their hands stretched-out.
Also, in Africa, tribal affiliations are key to being considered an insider by any group. Naturally, it would be difficult for a black American to credibly claim membership with any local tribe given his lack of relevant language skills and cultural understating. So the black American is generally considered an outsider by all.
I have to agree with Rock that many Africans do not consider African Americans real Africans and the fact that because of imperialism it is happening in many countries today. I would think that there are some places that are good to find decent women and a good life but I still do not want to live in most African countries.
Black Americans don't have a "native country" as we are an amalgam of various African nations with many of us having Native American and European blood to boot.
Africa is not a country, it is a continent full of various cultures and languages and dispositions. African Americans would be at a loss to know which country the greater portion of their ancestors came.
An Italian American man going to Russia to find a wife is not him going back to his country.
On your final point, people like who they like so just leave it at that.
Don't mean to step on toes. I know that Africa is not a country but a continent full of countries. I think you mis-read what I wrote . I implied that for Asian American men there are different nationalities for Asian American guys and when they go back to Asia they go back to their respectful native countries. Example Winston going back to Taiwan and someone else going back to Japan or something.
But you are right in one thing. The difference between an Asian American vs a black american at least with the Asian American there is a native ancestor country that they can trace back to. With Black Americans it's much harder if impossible to trace that back ground.
I just find that at least reading the post here a lack of interest (maybe I am wrong again I mean this as no offense ) of visiting the many countries in Africa. I mean for me I am interested in visiting Kenya and Ethiopia on top of my list. Possible Senegal or even Nigeria (I had college friends who were international students from Nigeria) . I don't think I would want to visit South Africa cause of the crime rate .
Just like what ROck wrote about white privilege. It;s the same in Asia ..I visited Thailand and South Korea( my native country). WHite people do get a preferential treatment from what I witness. Sometimes they have more advantage than I did as a Asian man in Asia. It depends really.
I think for me being Asian it's a strong part of my identity. I know my back ground is Korean ..but I can relate better with other Asian men..than follow by other ethnic men ..than lastly white men. At least for me..I had to visit South Korea and also visit other places in Asia.
I was wondering if there were black guys who posted here who felt the same. You are right...allot of black americans would be at loss to trace back their roots ...
About preference of dating..one of the reason why I wanted to visit Kenya or even Ethiopia is that I hear that the women their are very beautiful and traditional. As an Asian man I do find some black woman attractive but not too much the Americanize one but I did meet African students in my college years and I found the women to be very feminine and even to extent of submissive.
Just curious is any of the black guys who post here experience that too....
One of the few good things about being Asian American or an Asian living in a Western country is that we have our own culture to fall back on when we're being persecuted or when we become disillusioned with the host country. The same thing can't be said for African Americans, unfortunately. African Americans have a hard time tracing back their lineage because of they way they're ancestors were forced to become slaves, and all the intermixing of various ethnicities in their genes, i.e., Native American, White, etc. And even if they do find their lineage, that doesn't mean African Americans can simply move to those countries like Asians can. For example, many Africans are not going to simply accept African Americans into their country and accept them as "brothers" simply because of their ancestry. In fact, many Africans harbor distrust and downright hostility towards Black Americans.
But what is to say that going back to your Asian homeland is suitable? Your families left those countries for significant reasons so going back usually does not lend itself to contentment and well-being or happiness.
I routinely go to the handful of places in the world that I love. There are several places around the world where most people are not race-obsessed and they love black Americans. In fact, I am treated better in many Asian countries then the men of that country so it often is a benefit to NOT share the ethnic background of the local people to reap the social rewards.
Affluent black men often resettle in Brazil, South Africa, and in several other places around the world. I just learned today that Jeffrey Daniel of Shalamar fame, lives in London and Japan when he is not filming a show in Nigeria. That is the mode of the global black man aware of this options and power in the world.
You must think like a contrarian, not like every one else, to stay ahead of the curve!
That's true but NE asia has developed tremendously since the bad old days when most of our parents immigrated. When my parents immigrated to the U.S. in the late 60's Taiwan, Korea, China, and nearly all of SE Asia were complete shitholes. The most developed country at the time was Japan and that was even before their big industry boom which came later. These days many Asian cities are cosmopolitan, comfortable, and have a pretty high standard of living. I can see that becoming even more so in the future when global trade and innovation starts to balance out a bit. Plus sociably it's a lot more tolerable to be some place where you fit in or are accepted than a 4% figure in the U.S. The U.S. isn't completely terrible for asian-americans in the bigger picture but it is certainly stifling in a lot of ways socially to be an asian-american man living there.
You can call anyplace home as long as you are accepted there or have attributes that are appreciated in that country. It doesn't matter if it's the same or not it's all about leveraging your best attributes and advantages.
Part of the reason why I come on this site is to exchange ideas or read upon other people experience traveling abroad. As a black American man your experience abroad will be different from mine. As you mentioned yourself that in certain Asians countries you were treated better than the local native men. So it was to your advantage to be there. Granted I think that is part of the reason why many of us come to this forum to find places where we have an advantages.
Saying that race is always a factor to a degree..I mean as you said yourself being Black American gave you some advantages in some countries because it was due to your race. In other cases it can be a disadvantages.
As an Asian American man I'm still trying to figure which countries can be a benefit to Asian guy and it is also interesting to read up on what benefits to other ethnic men get in other countries too.
When you mention that Native Africans have distrust towards black americans...you know what goes through my head....Divide and conquer . Something that a white man would want ethnic people to do. Fight among themselves..sure there are intra-rival even among white people but you sense more of solidarity from the upper class white folks.
Anyway, it's little bit the same with native Asians not welcoming Asian Americans. I'm Korean-American but not fluent in Korea and to native Koreans they look down at me for not speaking the language well enough and sometimes ask me to go back to America. Where as I see white guys who butcher the Korean languages and get praise for trying to speak the language.
Still I guess I like to think as a romantic ..going back to your ancestor lands and finding acceptance. As an Asian guy living in America I never felt accepted. I think part of the reason why we come to this forum is because we stood outside and felt this culture isn't for us. I think,.
That's terrible. I've never had a single Chinese or TW person ever say anything like that to me and most were interested in the fact that I was an ABC. Then again the overseas Chinese community has always been a very respected historical part of Chinese culture.
I have also heard some Gyopos get mixed treatment in Korea. I think Korea is extremely xenophobic and is still coming to terms with its relative new status in the world. Plus some of the "new" wealthy Koreans look down on the ones that left the country or others that have mixed heritage. It's just ethnocentrism. This means a lot of Korean-Americans that feel "stuck" in between worlds are not treated very well in either countries when they should be accepted back in Korea.
Asian-Americans are strange in particular because it's a big mix of many fairly recent asian origins in one culture that categorizes everyone into one artificial racial grouping. Plus AA's are only a tiny 4% of the U.S. population. This means unless you are on some major coastal city you will generally feel outside the mainstream. However, AA's relative economic success means that the group is tailor made for happier abroad type living.
I don't think I ever felt that alienated from the U.S. mainstream but I can fully understand what you are talking about.
I don't think being black, per se, is advantageous over there. I think being "different" or unique and interesting is the key. Most people do not immediately believe I am African American due to my manner of dress and my mannerisms.
Most black men would crash and burn socially if they embody those stereotypical characteristics of blackness in the countries that I visit. So to clarify, I would say that the places I travel to lend themselves to social success DESPITE one's being black, not necessarily because of it.
I'm Korean American myself, and I never experienced the things you mentioned. In fact, when I go back to Korea, Koreans are always interested in my experiences. The first time I went to Korea, was in 1988, and I didn't speak a lick of Korean, yet was warmly embraced by people in the neighborhood of my grandparents. I made friends with a guy across the street from my grandparents who was about the same age, and he invited me over to his church. The neighbors were wonderful to me as well. In fact, the day before I was to leave the country, my church friends came over to wish me and my sister good luck and say goodbye. That was the kind of hospitality I never experienced in the U.S., and why I never wanted to leave the country then.
It was the same experience when I visited Thailand two years ago. The Thai people were kind and wonderful, unlike many Westerners, and actually looked up to Western educated Asians. I'm not sure why your experiences are so different than mine? I would suggest to you to at least learn the Korean language a bit more as that will help you in trying to communicate to Koreans a bit more. Do you reject or embrace your Korean heritage, Chanta? I think that goes a long way in understanding the culture and people better.
I have dated a Ghanian woman while I was living in Queer City, North Carolina (i.e. "Harlotte" NC), and although she never, ever cooked for me, whenever I told her to come to my house, she got there within two hours and never prevented me from f***ing her.
There were times she wore layers of clothes on purpose so she can laugh at me trying to strip-rape her but once I get down to the last layer, she would assist me in getting her buttnaked, and she would help me insert my cock inside of her with no condom. However, she would circle her p***y and tease it with my cock while getting off with her cry moans before she stuck my shaft inside.
I was dumb because I left her when I had moved to the Bay Area of Calif. in 1999 to pursue the Y2K "gold"/Y2k CRASH rush for IT positions out there.
She was one of the few non-westernized FW's whom moved to America whom was very submissive and always gave me sex when I wanted it. f**k, man. *sigh*
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Not to hijack this thread since this thread is about places that are good for black men. Let me just answer you quick. Yes, I am proud of being Korean but had my share of insecurities and identity issues growing up in the states. I'm 35 years old. Lived in USA most of my life. I can relate to Winston Wu experience to some extent.
I think with South Korea or even the rest of Asia (I also visited Thailand) it's a mix bag to Asian AMericans. We look Asian and because we are from USA it can sometimes gives us some advantages. At the same time some disadvantages. We don't have the same privilege status that a white men would have but being Asian we can at times have better access than a white men would have .
Even for black American men in Asia it's a mix bag. Depending upon which Asian countries ..they either really love black men or plain look down on them.
With Asian American men ...I think compared to how we are treated in the USA. We probably are treated 10 X times better in Asia but this also applies to other expats in Asia.
The disadvantage is that because I look Korean and my blood line is Korean..there is a HIGHER expectation from native Koreans ..In other words even though I grew up in USA and think very Americanize...to native Koreans they look at me as KOrean and expect me to behave like a Korean. If I don't they think I'm weird or odd. Some Native Koreans are understanding because I'm from the states where as others ..can be rude.
With white or black men in Korea..they get the "get excuse card" , because they are not Korean. White or black men can make all the mistakes in the book but because they are waeguk...it's OK..but this itself hurts them. How? They are never truly accepted. Even if a white guy or black guy speaks fluent Korean and understand Korean culture and act more Korean than any gyopo...the way they LOOK. They never be in the inner circle. But it's the same in any other country. If I relocate to Sweden ..learn the language..culture and act very Swedish..I will NEVER be truly Swedish because I don't look the part..or Swedish people will not truly accept me. I think.
Honestly...South Korea is not a great place for expats...it maybe OK for Korean Americans..but even for Korean Americans the Korean culture can be too controlling and judgmental.
Woah...I wanted to do a quick reply but it's a long post. If you want to talk about Asian American issues we should just go to that thread .
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