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Lehman rocks Navy with complaints about political correctnes

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Lehman rocks Navy with complaints about political correctnes

Postby Mr S » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:03 am

If anyone served in the military you will understand this article better. Actually the comments about it are very good too! ... #pagebreak

Lehman rocks Navy with complaints about political correctness
Ex-secretary says aviation needs swagger

The Navy’s former top civilian has rocked the service in a military journal article by accusing officials of sinking the storied naval air branch into a sea of political correctness.

Former Navy Secretary John Lehman, himself a former carrier-based aviator, wrote that the swagger and daring of yesterday’s culture has given way to a focus on integrating women and, this year, gays.

Pilots constantly worry about anonymous complaints about salty language, while squadron commanders are awash in bureaucratic requirements for reports and statistics, he added.

“Those attributes of naval aviators — willingness to take intelligent calculated risk, self-confidence, even a certain swagger — that are invaluable in wartime are the very ones that make them particularly vulnerable in today’s zero-tolerance Navy,â€￾ said Mr. Lehman, who led the Navy in the Reagan administration.

“The political correctness thought police, like Inspector Javert in ‘Les Miserables,’ are out to get them and are relentless.â€￾

Navy pilots have complained privately for years that a post-Tailhook Convention push to clean up conduct by aviators went too far.

The 1991 Las Vegas convention has stood as a black mark for the Navy because some naval aviators engaged in lewd escapades and excessive drinking.

An ensuing Pentagon investigation ballooned into one of the government’s most extensive probes, as scores of officers were targeted and had their careers shortened. Feminists used the scandal to demand a change in Navy culture.

Now, Mr. Lehman, a New York investor who served as a bombardier navigator in A-6 Intruders, has aired in public what active-duty pilots dare not say.

His lengthy article adorns the home page of the magazine Proceedings, a forum for active-duty and retired personnel on naval issues. Proceedings is published by the U.S. Naval Institute, an independent association located at the Naval Academy in Annapolis.

“Once standards of common sense were ignored in favor of political correctness, there were no limits to the spread of its domination,â€￾ Mr. Lehman wrote.

“Not only have alcohol infractions anonymously reported on the hot line become career-enders, but suspicions of sexual harassment, homophobia, telling of risque jokes, and speech likely to offend favored groups all find their way into fitness reports.

“And if actual hot-line investigations are then launched, that is usually the end of a career, regardless of the outcome. There is now zero tolerance for any missteps in these areas.â€￾

The Lehman broadside coincides with the celebrations this year at military bases across the country of the 100th anniversary of naval aviation.

That celebration, too, got caught up this year in charges of political correctness. The foundation in charge of anniversary events posted a history online that emphasized women and minority advancement in naval air.

It virtually ignored the major air battles of World War II and Vietnam, where the role of aircraft-carrier operations gained prominence. A number of retired aviators protested, prompting the foundation to pull the presentation and write a new one.

Then there was the case of Capt. Owen Honors. The Navy fired him as commanding officer of the carrier USS Enterprise, after onboard raunchy videos he produced in 2006 and 2007 as morale boosters became public. Again, the Navy’s critics leveled charges of political correctness.

Also this year, some aviators circulated a rogue uniform patch depicting the naval aviation culture as dead.

The Lehman article has stirred emotions on both sides of the debate.

A spokesman for Naval Air Forces Atlantic in Norfolk, Va., declined to comment, but the Navy is pushing back.

At the Tailhook Association’s annual convention in Reno, Nev., this month, some active-duty admirals expressed their displeasure with Mr. Lehman’s allegations, according to a retired flier who attended.

Some current aviators are defending the Navy’s “officer-and-a-gentlemanâ€￾ push.

Lt. Christopher “Chandlerâ€￾ Moran, who identified himself as an eight-year naval aviator, posted a comment on Proceedings vouching for the current culture.

“Yes, perhaps we have some training that seems like a waste of time, but I’m not sure what exactly is wrong with being respectful of people who weren’t previously allowed into the community,â€￾ Lt. Moran wrote.

“Yes, perhaps some people who might have been good leaders are no longer in the community, … but to say that the community is worse off is to marginalize all of the new members of the community.

“And trust me, regardless of who you are or what you believe in, you still need a thick skin in naval aviation,â€￾ he added.

“You will get made fun of regardless of who you are. Women know this, homosexuals know this, everyone knows this. That part of the culture will not change.

“To assume that every women gets offended at every joke is not only ridiculous, but is rude to women. Respect is the real issue, and should we naval aviators not be called to a high level of respect.â€￾

Most posts agreed with Mr. Lehman.

A retired officer wrote that Lt. Moran’s post was “filled with feminine hyperbole and the fruits of political correctness.â€￾

Jon Ault, a retired F-14 Tomcat pilot, said Mr. Lehman is publicly airing what a lot of fliers think but can’t say.

“This country needs the ‘hot shots,’ the warriors, the big egos, the guys who are awarded medals of honor for running into, not away from, conflict.â€￾ he told The Washington Times.

“As much as people hate us during peacetime, and as much as they love the daring bravado during times of strife, the need for such men will always be there.

“If we continue to suppress the warrior spirit, there will be no one left to defend the Constitution of the United States and we shall perish as a nation.â€￾


I have been in the military for 22 years as a fighter pilot and training fighter pilots. Let me make it clear, I DO NOT SPEAK for the US Military in anyway (my disclaimer). I have not been promoted mainly for my lack of PC and my constant battle against it. It is amazing how the tradition and morale have eroded due to the ruthless PC environment. I can"t believe the difference in the kids that I train to fly now, most are completely spineless. PC gives power to people who were picked last on the kickball team when they were little and they will abuse that power to try to prove they deserve it. The ban on openly serving gays ends tonight and their will be a gay general within 6 months. And there will be several cases from openly gay officers and enlisted that will be forced upon an already overburdened military justice system that goes out of its way to eat our true warriors. When they don't get promoted it will be because they were mistreated due to being gay. All is truly lost for this so called fighting force. IT breaks my heart but what can I do. This country needs to collapse so it can rebuild itself as a constitutional republic for which I swore my life to defend.

This breakdown has been widespread and intense in every aspect of society, not just the military. Basically, what it amounts to...but not a dumbing down of sorts of everything from college entry requirements to certification academically, as well as infecting all levels of public and private business.

It is an ongoing deterioration that has its own engine and continues on in spite of the obvious madness of it all.

It is all based in a nonsensical notion that amounts to a sick urge to achieve a utopia, which is no more than a mentally disturbed view of what the PC crowd would like to see the world become. It's not only childish it has no place in the real world and will fail miserably.

As the poster Viper suggests, this society DOES need to collapse in order to bring sanity back into focus. And collapse will indeed occur, helped along by the declining US empire which is in the process of imploding as the economy continues its plummet.

But collapse won't be due solely to the political correctness aspect involving social engineering. The country has become too fractious with competing tribes each one fighting for its own self interests with no regard for the nation as a whole. Factoring in self-interests groups along lines of sex and sexual persuasions only adds to the disunity that has been created for years now.

A loss of homegenity, misapplication of a nation's wealth, and a change toward favoring a society's flakes, oddballs and misfits, have always led to societal break ups and always will as long as humanity endures.

If viper's opinion is not rational, what examples can you give to support YOUR rationale?

Too, viper did not say that all military personnel are spineless, only that there are too many spineless people involved today. The deteriorating condition of a military diverted into a social engineering debacle is the product of the politicians and high ranking misfits in the military. It does not mean there are no courageous people in it.

Too, allowing people to be open about their sexuality is an invitation for homosexuals to make unwanted advances toward their gender equivalents, and was correctly shunned by nearly ALL military specialists for thousands of years, because of the obvious hostility and natural repugnance by the vast, vast majority of those in the armed forces. It is a policy that invites disunity and as part of the overall policy of political correctness will eventually cause the US to be a third-rate military.

But, before the deterioration leads to a humiliating defeat on the battlefield the country will erupt into Civil War II, breaking along lines of race, ethnicity a lesser extent....politics.

And, so far as anonymity is concerned, do we all have to give out our name, rank and serial number in order to be heard and have a valid complaint?
Robert Kelly

"Hi, I am a male fighter pilot with 22 years in Navy aviation, I think integrating women and homos has sucked the life out of fighter pilots."


A pun OR a double entendre? However, your assertion has truth in it.

"Again, my statement is this, I challenge any of you who thinks our warriors are cowards or sissies to say it to their face."

I never read where ANYBODY said that, but it can't be denied having the military feminized and sodomized is a definite sissification, and history proves unequivocally such a politically correct recipe is no more than a recipe for disaster, whether or not it reflects society as a whole. Mark my words: Deaths will ocuur over this, though they might not be attributable as homocides.

Many conditions exist in society which are blatantly wrong for the military. A transfer of a bad situation from the civilian sector to the military one doesn't mean it's o.k. because the situation exists in civilian society. To foist such an evil concept on the military is the height of social engineering.

"Social engineering would be creating entire units based upon gender and see how they behave, whoops, that was the last behavior model that was in place."

Any alteration within the ranks of any societal structure involving a desire to over ride human nature to effect a specific political agenda is social engineering. Keeping everybody together in separate units is segregation.

"Let's get down to brass tacks, do you think this military will not be able to fight future wars because of women and homosexuals in the ranks?"

Those are just two of the reasons the military has been seriously weakened, most especially regarding homosexuality. There is a place for women in the military, however, but not on the battlefield. Pregnancy and accusations of rape can be debilitating problems, rendering a unit ineffective or impotent to a certain extent, and both are due to the close proximity of women and men.

But just those two changes are far from the total amount of deterioration that's still ongoing. The total problem is political correctness gone mad.

"As for your thought process on unwanted sexual advances, yes, you are right sexual harassment and sexual assault are degraders to readiness. Duh. But if you think the military was asexual and removed from these problems prior to when women and homosexuals being integrated into units, then you are wrong."

If you agree that homosexuals are "degraders to readiness," than why allow them to be open about what they do? Won't that magnify the problem, just as keeping a tight rein on any kind of display of same gender preferences curtail it? But I don't agree that it was a porblem before, at least pre-Bill Clinton.

Some Athenian armies in ancient times lined up the older homosexuals in the front ranks, while their boy lovers were in the back row, the concept involved being that the ones in the front would fight harder so that the enemy wouldn't reach their partners in the rear. This US military is not the same kind of army nor do our military personnel consist of a large number of homosexuals.

"Just because you believe something terrible can happen, it does not make the point you are making valid."

It is not just because I BELIEVE we're heading for disaster. History backs me up on every contention I've made, and a lot of what I pointed out is common sense, laced with facts and situational analysis which points unequivocally to what I wrote.

"This country will not descend into anarchy and civil war because of the repeal of DADT."

Read the book by Thomas Chittum, Civil War II, the Coming Break Up of America, regarding our situation today and note that the things he warned about have come true, and the others not yet here are likely to do the same.

"You strangely label yourself a libretarian. What liberties do you support?"

Fredom of association. freedom from government interference and social engineering, nd freedom of thought, expression, and movement.

those Marines in Camp Pendleton that you want to use as your example, are the very ones who will be sold out for the furtherance of the spineless pc bureaucrats that will be in positions of power above them. Do you think the DADT repel was because the military desired it? Do you think the Marines you cite want to get reprimanded for course language or being politically incorrect? Of course they are not the cowards, neither are they the ones implementing this bullcrap!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Postby zboy1 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:29 am

When I got in the Air Force in the late 90s I wasn't expecting to see political correctness at all. In fact, before I joined because I knew the macho male culture dominated the military. I was subject to some abuse and racism when I was in the service because of my Asian ethnicity, but I didn't cry about it because you're in the MILITARY for goodness sake! A lot of mean, nasty people are in the military, but what do you expect? You can't have a military made up of only nice, goody two shoes pussies like me and expect to be the top military in the world. As for homosexuals, I never really had any problems with them while I was in the military as long as they weren't blatant about it. If you're homosexual...fine, but don't force your beliefs and lifestyles on others'. As for women in the armed services, most of them were good soldiers, but I thought a few of them really dragged down the rest with them sleeping around with everyone and genuine wild ways.
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Postby momopi » Tue Sep 20, 2011 3:55 am

Just my $0.02:

We're in a transition stage from manned aviation to unmanned aviation. The air force traditionally did not like UAV's taking place of flight pilots, because they want to maintain the hotshot pilot image instead of some video game jock with a joystick in the control room. But if you look at the current trend, it's obvious that UAV's will some day become dominate.


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Postby Mr S » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:11 pm

momopi wrote:Just my $0.02:

We're in a transition stage from manned aviation to unmanned aviation. The air force traditionally did not like UAV's taking place of flight pilots, because they want to maintain the hotshot pilot image instead of some video game jock with a joystick in the control room. But if you look at the current trend, it's obvious that UAV's will some day become dominate.



Well this story is about the air side of the Navy, not the Air force. They operate a bit differently but it's not just the air side but the surface and sub side as well. I was on a ship and there were a couple of homo incidents that happened when i was there. One was an officer who tried to get a guy drunk then let him stay in his room to sleep it off. He then tried to suck the kids dick while he was passed out and the kid woke up, something like that. The officer was gone pretty quickly... He used to be in the combat info center where i worked and there was this short 18 year old kid that he would have work next to him so he can stare at his ass all night, it was quite obvious. We used to joke about it but when the above incident actually happened with another guy we all knew...

Some guys are closet homos and they start acting out when they are drunk on liberty. I'm glad I'm not in the military nowadays, I thought it sucked when I was in, it must be 100X worse now with broads and fags openly running around. China and Russia must be laughing their asses off at us!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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