Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to North America. For those looking to relocate within the US or Canada, discuss your experiences and pros/cons of each domestic region.
It seems that southern women are indeed friendlier, more sociable, inclusive and easy to chat up, than women from the coastal areas of the US. So is it worth it to visit or move to the south? What do you think?
Also, is NY the multi-cultural melting pot it's hyped up to be?
Some say it's the most European like city in the States. But does it really have a great social life? Why do some say yes and others say no?
I'm sure it has lots to do there, but what are the pros and cons of living there? When I visited NY in 2004, I was mesmerized by the city's energy.
I am eventually planning on moving to Texas from Colorado. I've heard over, and over, and over from people from Texas natives who have moved here --that people in Texas are much more friendly. One guy, a scupltor/ artist, had a very difficult time adjusting. He thought people just weren't very nice up here compared to texas. It reminded me of my troubles adjusting to the "mean spirited" east coast people in college; I had come from mid west--North Dakota. What a culture shock.
I've found that people from Texas to be very wholesome people. Don't confuse the texas "born and bred" with the transplants though. Any comparison has to be made with the people who have been raised in Texas culture--which is one of respect for everyone coupled with accountablity/pesonal responsiblity.
In the southern states there is something called southern hospitality. I have not visited the south very much but maybe people who have can testify to it. Also, I have noticed people in small towns no matter where in the US it is located in, are generally friendly. I went to school in a small town of ten thousand people in central Illinois and the people were nice and friendly!
I recently went on a vacation to the southern states. The people there were indeed far more hospitable in general than the north. Even the small towns we visited were different than those back in Michigan. They had an air of cultural refinement and pride about them. The small farm towns in Michigan were actually more "redneck" than those in the south, with a mediocre run down corner of the neighborhood feel about them. There wasn't any trace of that atmosphere in the south, at least not in the towns I saw.
No it's more than hospitality. Which is generally defined as:
1. the friendly reception and treatment of guests or strangers.
2. the quality or disposition of receiving and treating guests and strangers in a warm, friendly, generous way.
I think they are easier to get to know. You can connect more easily and on more than just a superficial level.
Just to clarify though, by "friendliness" I don't mean waving a polite hi as you walk by strangers, never seeing them again. That's Seattle's definition of "friendliness", but not mine. lol I mean "inclusive", perhaps that's a better word.
yeah, inclusive, that I am not sure of, but I think all those people from Texas who have experienced a culture shock coming to colorado are speaking of inclusivness. I've been there twice on vacation and definitely found people easier to have deep conversations with!
It's a rub for me ... I definitely agree that coastal Americans just aren't as easy to make friends. I think people in middle America are more inclusive, and my best friend of over 10 years lives in Ohio. I don't expect that i will ever have the deep friendships here, in northern California that I had back in my hometown. However, I really like Northern California as a place to live, and really disliked Ohio (aside from my friends/family). I have been to the south and thought it was great, but I am not sure that I'd want to live there ... unless it was a big city like Atlanta ... and then you kind of lose that whole small town sweetness. The friendliest people I ever met were in some little prairie town in Wyoming, and some little tavern in Colorado when my husband and I were on a road trip. Absolutely lovely people ... but I am not sure that I could live in a small town like that.
"The limits of my language mean the limits of my world." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
One thing that needs to be noted is that in a lot of the small towns, at least in the Southeastern US, everyone is a Christian, and if you're not, you're in for as much exclusion as you would experience anywhere.
I, being the "Strong Atheist" (one who actively asserts that there is no god) do not and can not fit in here in Tennessee.
I lived in New York for 7 years, and it is about as much of a melting pot as Henrik Verwoerd's Johannesburg or Pretoria. If not more so. At least in South Africa you needed laws to keep people apart. In new York, you do not.
Every ethnic group naturally and willingly segregates itself into its ghetto/township probably because the Real Americans ( meaning, people outside of that group) are about as friendly to them as a bunch of junkyard dogs who had not been fed for a week.
This is how it is in most boroughs of New York. Things do change when you have a lot of money and can move up ( to Manhattan) or move out to Long Island where people are not as mean. Many people try and do that and spend their entire lives in that effort.
If you think California is segregated, you should try NY.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
I honestly believe, if it weren't for theism, atheism would have little need to exist.
There is a great deal of generalization on this forum.
Segregation whether because of political disenfranchising or as a result of a social unconsciousness is barely scratching the surface the variations of hospitality within US borders.
One look back to the pre 1950's/60's era will show a legal segregation of the population. We obviously no longer experience that on a cultural level. I could just as easily say:
"If you think NY is segregated, you should live in the Midwest." It's all relative.
Division of races and culture is a natural occurrence in any country. I would be reluctant to so quickly quote the reasons being because the "Real Americans/natives" treat them poorly. My experience with various minorities has shown them to be as preemptive with racism or prejudice as anyone of Anglo or European descent. Certainly one could sit and romanticize the notion that it is because they have been treated certain ways by other cultures and races, but that doesn't create a platform for defending ongoing hatred. It is likely 'segregated' groups within the US would act the same if they were to live in another country, maybe not. Perhaps the discussion should lean toward why various groups allegedly segregate themselves willingly. There are many very convincing arguments against the Melting Pot Theory and why it is an abysmal failure. Each and every culture is unique in it's world views, religious attitudes, approaches to economics as well as other characteristics. Why this era has chosen to embrace the dilution of culture in a homogeneous gray zone is beyond my comprehension. The success of the civilization I believe is in preserving the unique richness and beauty of each people while gently blending with others, not by assimilating or forcing all the characteristics into a blender and hoping for the best.
Most of my life I have had Africans as friends, they happen to be black. That said they have little understanding or comprehension of their American counterparts of like skin tone. There is obviously a lack of genetic component to racism, segregation and separation of race, big surprise. So where does the issue lie?
I look at it the same way as I do the flawed American health care system (talk about an extended oxymoron,) the reason universal health care here isn't supported isn't because it doesn't work, numerous other industrialized nations have proven otherwise; it's because the group mentality that has been set up within this country will simply never attach itself to a collective model. Individualism is a golden calf here, and taxes are considered equivocal at best and 'ungodlike' by more xenophobic groups. Why is this so? Look at our lineage, a testament to divisiveness and separation. Few people in the US have ever thought about why they have coffee instead of tea, football instead of rugby or soccer or why protestantism is dominant over catholicism. The US has ambivalent attitudes toward many topics. Embrace individuality while acting terrified of something different.
There are issues to discuss that transcend knee-jerk assessments of why things are the way they are. It's not always as simple as being treated poorly. Segregation takes on an entirely different flavor within each country.
I get along much better with blacks in the Southern US than in the North. Why is this?
Many have told me it's because of the deeply rooted racism and that blacks have somehow 'learned their place.' That goes nowhere in my mind. The North has always been considered the great liberator of the American black yet why is there so much more racial tension, in the upper Midwest than say Tennessee? So while there is segregation within all corners of the US, it is not so simply explained. The South prides itself on hospitality, whatever that is but 40 percent of the homocides in the US occur within 14 states of the South. They consider themselves to embrace family values and I would say they do have a different take on it than the North, they look out for their own...even if it means murdering a neighbor. The North murders their neighbors by simply ignoring them.
I can talk to whites in Tennessee and Louisiana and there does seem to be a 'hospitality', but it's difficult to trust their motives for friendliness because many of the discussions STILL turn to the civil hatred between the North and the South. Educated or not, many in the South believe and feel there is a difference. But I don't see it, feel it or think about it until someone from the South brings it up. The same way I don't see, think or feel differently about an American Black until they become indignant, dismissive or two faced toward me around their 'friends,' or accuse others of racism without first looking into themselves.
Much of this is because of class separation and level of affluence, I believe it is also because of an apathetic attitude toward conscious thought that is either learned or congenital. I would warn anyone to avoid pinning one explanation on any issue, especially those anthropological in nature. While the topic doesn't have to be dragged through minutia to be made sense of, applying one reason toward a cultural phenomena will ultimately produce a non sequitur.
I realize this post was in great part anecdotal, but that is primarily because I've found people in general tend to relate more to meandering tales of personal experience than engage in something more academic; I prefer a mix but lean toward the latter. This post was nothing more than a preamble ramble meant to fish for anyone willing to take on a more encompassing discussion of their experiences within or without the US and why they differ or resemble one another.
Since our discussion is about dating in the US and finding social life and all this especially for average people like I us, I stand by my words that New York is not a very good place. I lived in Russia for ten years and yes I am a former Soviet citizen ( born in Ukraine, though, not Russia, I trust you know that these are not the same). And yes there is segregation there as well and there is segregation everywhere.
What is different is the degree, frequency, intensity and kind. This was one thing that Winston was trying to stress about the false arguments of the variety:
I am moving out of S. Africa because the crime rate is astronomical
Response: there is crime everywhere. Even in Japan, there is crime.
The difference is in the degree.
In Russia I was quite a popular boy and had lots of girls who had crush on me. In NY I became a nobody. The tendency of people there ( not all, but most) is to segregate into ethnic neighborhoods. And yes, minorities become like that because the WASP population for centuries (!) treated them like sh't. Cornered rats bite.
In Russia there is also segregation and hatred, but boy it is of a different variety. Most foreigners who go there find girls and friends. And for centuries ( before Bolsheviks) if you baptized into the Russian Orthodox faith, you were now a Russian and yes, you could marry a local woman and have kids. All all foreign men in Russia have/had local wives. For centuries. Now, how many foreign guys can marry US girls? Or do? Every time you talk to children of immigrants in NY, it is like 95% of them will say- my parents came from this or that country. In Russia, no. No such thing.
In Latin America, the Caribbean, is is also like that. A foreign guy can just come in learn Spanish and integrate. And yes there is also prejudice and all, but it is about 5% of the US prejudice.
Check it out man, go and see for yourself. Go see families that have kids of different colors there. Go the United Arab Emirates or Qatar, see of what many colors the Emiratis and Qataris are. There are no black ghettos there. All kids of different colors play together. And for centuries they did. Have you been there? Go and observe.Do you speak Arabic and can you talk to local people? I do. I can.
Goto Brazil and see what is going on. And yes, they also have prejudice against darker people but again, socially speaking, it is 5% of the American variety.
America is great country politically and professionally. Legally, as well. Socially it sucks for many people because of the high degree of segregation.
Now, after you have traveled to and lived in those countries that I have been to and spoken to the people there in their languages ( like I have) and found out how life is there, come back and tell me if I am wrong . Winston and I have been around and we know.
Just a small example. I went to school in Vermont. You go to a bar there and no one will talk to you. People will give you dirty looks. You cross the border into Quebec and it is like another world. The people in bars walk up to you, talk to you, invite you into their homes, Women kiss you. You are in. You just have to speak French, that' all I do. Do you? Tell me how it goes after you have been there and spoken French.
I would not dismiss may decades-long experiences as just "anecdotal". Are you going to tell me that US based researchers (who cannot even speak one foreign language) and who have probably or traveled as much as I have, have more to say?
As far as US not having free medical care because of individualism, are you going to tell me that Anglo-Canadians in Vancouver or Toronto are somehow more communal? Are you kidding? Virtually the same Anglo Saxon culture if not more so. How about NZers? Or Brits? These are very lonely people and hard to get to know. Why do they have nationalized medical care? Americans are far more communal in my view.
I think the US has no medical care that is nationalized because of all these
huge health care companies that lobby against it.
Your examples about Africans in the US are correct, but how do they relate to what we are trying to do here? We are trying to find good places where we can find girls and make friends.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Although this is mostly a side issue, speaking as someone who is both a libertarian AND has a great fascination for foreign cultures and possibly plans to move abroad someday (and therefore is not xenophobic), the reason I disagree with national health care paid for via taxation by the state is because taxation (at least as it currently exists) is theft, pure and simple. While I might be voluntarily willing to give money to a sick person who was down on their luck and genuinely needed assistance, I would be far less willing to do so for, say, a fat lazy druggie whose sickness was caused by their own folly and demonstrates an unwillingness to change. With national health care, I am forced to pay for other people's health care whether I chose to or not.
Also, I have reason to believe that the situation in other industrialized countries in regards to national 'free' health care is not quite as encouraging as many would assume.
http://www.mises.org/article.aspx?Id=49 ... ealth+Care
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