Best no-BS martial arts for real combat + solo training?

[Lucas88]

Do you think marital arts online trainings are worth it?

No, you can't learn a martial art through online courses. You need to actually train at a gym, practice techniques with real people against resistance and spar with other trained martial artists. Consistency is also important so you should aim for a minimum of three sessions per week. You can use online videos to discover new techniques and study fight strategies but you have to then practice them in real life for them to be effective.

[WilliamSmith]

Do you think marital arts online trainings are worth it?

No, you can't learn a martial art through online courses. You need to actually train at a gym, practice techniques with real people against resistance and spar with other trained martial artists. Consistency is also important so you should aim for a minimum of three sessions per week. You can use online videos to discover new techniques and study fight strategies but you have to then practice them in real life for them to be effective.

I agree 100% with @Lucas88 you need real training partners to actually learn a martial art, but to the more general question "are online trainings worth it" (as opposed to actually teaching you all the way), I'm not sure what online courses actually provide?
Theoretically if an experienced instructor taught you some basics via videos, but then better yet watched you on a cam or recording or something and checked your form and could provide feedback if you were working a heavy bag or something, I can theoretically see that being worthwhile, even if you can't actually learn to fight for real without real opponents to train with. But you could still at least learn something.

Personal opinions from my own MMA days earlier: The instructors obviously help teach the fundamentals and a lot more (depending on the coach), but just showing up to lessons wasn't enough, and much better leaps ahead in progress for me came from training freely with partners that you get along with outside of structured lessons. That was a hell of a lot more fun too. Also, if you can find some MMA guys or whatever martial art who would give you private lessons that might be cool too, because sometimes they have to be more PC in courses that are open to whoever signs up, but then the same guys who pay lip service to a bunch of PC sounding stuff are actually testo-poisoned brawlers who will show you all sorts of different stuff in private, LOL. That was how it was for me where I'd pay one of them to train me at the trailer park where he lived instead of the fancier downtown athletic center where the main lessons were, and he'd show me a lot of cool stuff and also tell funny stories about getting in drunken brawls and street fights.

Also training on my own heavy bag a lot (even if just a Wavemaster and not a huge heavy bag you need to suspend from a beam with chains) is awesome, even though there's no argument you want training partners. But I spent a long time getting good workouts just working the heavy bag and practicing basic boxing footwork and the same punches and combinations over and over again for some good results in improving basic techniques without a training partner having to patiently spend hours just holding up focus pads while I threw the same combinations hundreds of times for hours.

Boxing trainers usually have students do lots and lots of shadowboxing combined with visualization too, so there's another solo thing you can do while waiting until your next session with your real training partners and instructors.

Besides the obvious of being able to get in good shape or flexibility exercises, the better solo training routines seem like they'd be more for striking though: For learning to wrestle you'd need training partners even more essentially. Though I actually noticed somebody made some big weighted martial arts grappling dummy when I was shopping for my 1st Century BOB, LOL.

[Lucas88]

Personal opinions from my own MMA days earlier: The instructors obviously help teach the fundamentals and a lot more (depending on the coach), but just showing up to lessons wasn't enough, and much better leaps ahead in progress for me came from training freely with partners that you get along with outside of structured lessons. That was a hell of a lot more fun too. Also, if you can find some MMA guys or whatever martial art who would give you private lessons that might be cool too, because sometimes they have to be more PC in courses that are open to whoever signs up, but then the same guys who pay lip service to a bunch of PC sounding stuff are actually testo-poisoned brawlers who will show you all sorts of different stuff in private, LOL. That was how it was for me where I'd pay one of them to train me at the trailer park where he lived instead of the fancier downtown athletic center where the main lessons were, and he'd show me a lot of cool stuff and also tell funny stories about getting in drunken brawls and street fights.

This was my experience too when I'd first started learning combat sports as a teenager and was trying to absorb all of the information about fighting that I could get my hands on. Fortunately I found a good Jiujitsu gym from the beginning and the quality of instruction was good for the time but some of my most productive sessions for learning came in the form of informal training sessions with some of the more experienced guys from the gym who would teach me all of the little tricks of the game. Because this kind of teacher-student relationship was more personal many of the techniques which the more experienced guys taught me would stick better. I benefited greatly from those sessions. Then years later the situation was reversed. I would teach the younger guys some of my more unorthodox techniques and all of the little details and they would love them and keep coming back for more.

Once I reached an intermediate level a lot of my learning of technique came through watching online videos and then practicing those techniques with certain buddies at the gym but that's when I'd already acquired the fundamentals through hours of formal training. I'd pick out techniques for each of the positions which looked useful and try them out either before or after class. If ever I found that I was constantly getting stuck in a certain position during rolling and didn't know what to do I'd consult the internet and try to find an appropriate solution. I learned all kinds of little tricks this way like some sneaky escapes against mount and how to counter an opponent's defense against certain submissions. I also learned various unorthodox submissions which would catch many opponents off guard. All of these were things that you don't typically learn at formal Jiujitsu classes.

What I hate about most Jiujitsu schools is that they don't have a formal syllabus of key techniques for each belt like most other martial arts do. Everything is too informal. People just stroll into the gym in their sandals as though they were on vacation and then the instructor will teach a few random techniques and the students will go away and drill them at their own leisurely pace. No wonder it takes the average guy 10 years to get a black belt! I'd rather have structure and a syllabus of key techniques which must be learned for each belt or at least up until purple belt. I think that it would be conducive to faster progression as well as a higher quality of training. But most Jiujitsu schools don't offer that and after a certain point you're really on your own and have to do your own homework to progress. At that point YouTube becomes your best friend as long as you can find training partners willing to do some extra informal training sessions with you on a regular basis.

I actually taught no-gi grappling (because I hate the gi) for a few years at my local MMA gym at the behest of the head instructor. At first he wanted me to put on an extra class so that the students there could learn my unique techniques but then as the head instructor began to spend months at a time abroad for his own MMA training I was appointed as grappling coach for the main grappling classes too. During that time I created a kind of syllabus of my own for the students and we would drill certain key techniques for all of the main positions on rotation. My goal was to instruct MMA fighters who were not necessarily grapplers in the fundamentals of grappling as quickly as possible so that they would have enough knowledge of grappling to get by in MMA. Many enjoyed my classes because of my attention to detail as well as the solid structure of the classes. I was getting high numbers of students almost every session. I'm not the best athlete or competitor but I think that I have a good mind for coaching.

I once had the idea of getting my brown belt in Jiujitsu (even though I hate most Jiujitsu classes) and then leaving to open my own grappling school in some remote region of Latin America since I'm too much of a nutjob to put on a suit and do a regular job and teaching martial arts is something that I think I could do without any major problem provided that I learned a little bit about marketing, but I stopped training Jiujitsu due to injuries and health problems and so I gave up on that idea. But maybe I'll start up again and eventually teach in LatAm provided that we haven't yet been enslaved by the Great Reset.

[Lucas88]

Take a look at this video about the World Combat Championship, which held one no-holds-barred fighting event in the mid 90s and could have been a competitor for the UFC:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIgO8nkvRbY&t=29s[/youtube]



I've only watched the highlights presented in this video but some of the fights look like they were off the hook.

Look at the young Erik Paulson. He looks like such a stud and kinda reminds me of the legendary pro wrestler Mr. Perfect. What a blessed individual with his golden locks, masculine jawline, athletic body and physical charisma. He was undoubtedly a winner in the genetic lottery!

But why was there only one event? In the video it is explained that the WCC's chief organizer's wife didn't approve of her rich husband's violent hobby and ordered him to pull the plug on the organization under the threat of divorce and he conceded. What a weak beta male cuck! Here is a warning to all of the monogamy hodlers out there: you can even be a multimillionaire and your monogamy hodler wife will still walk all over you and force you to obey her whims. I'd rather be free from that kind of shit!

[WilliamSmith]

See what I mean when I was talking to Cornfed in the other thread about not underestimating leg kicks! Kicks are actually my weak area just since I haven't practiced enough, though I always thought they were completely badass since I was a kid and watched my retro VHS of "Drunken Master II" where Ken Lo breaks out some serious kicks, but didn't realize leg kicks were actually so useful until later:

Top-voted comment on jewtube says:

RatFacedJasper
Knee surgeons must love MMAs rise in popularity.

If I remember rightly I posted the Bas Rutten vs Warpath fight earlier somewhere in this thread...

I posted this in the other thread too:

[Lucas88]

Here's the video of the manliest MMA fight of all time posted by @WilliamSmith in another thread:

That's interesting. The way that those guys grab each other and trade punches actually resembles the worked punch physics of pro wrestling except in this case the fight is real.

[Lucas88]

Here is a video of an instructor incorporating traditional Jujitsu armlocks into modern grappling:




I recognize most of those armlocks from traditional (Japanese) Jujitsu. The only difference is that the instructor sets up all of these traditional armlocks from modern clinching positions commonly used in submission grappling and MMA and completely usable on the street. This makes their application realistic.

Often it is the case that traditional martial arts have the techniques but not the setups from a standpoint of realism. Conversely, modern combat sports have the setups but many of the old techniques have been lost (usually due to being seen as impractical).

As I've argued before, modern combat sports and traditional martial arts can really compliment each other. Modern combat sports such as MMA and submission grappling give us all of the correct body positioning, clinching techniques, setups and combat mechanics needed for a struggle against a resisting opponent while TMAs often include certain violent techniques "for the streets". Learn to integrate them both and you have a very effective combat system.

@Cornfed, you've talked about standing armlocks and such. The instructor in the video teaches such techniques with realistic setups (something which tends to be absent in the way they are taught in TMAs and self-defense courses).

@WilliamSmith, I think that you'll find these techniques interesting too since their application in the video reflects a theme that we talked about in this very thread - the blending of MMA with TMA and self-defense techniques.

[Pixel--Dude]

Thanks for sharing these clips @Lucas88 I'm sure they will be useful if someone watches the clips and applies the lesson therein should a situation requiring self defense arises. Grappling is badass!

[WilliamSmith]

@Lucas88
@Cornfed
@MrPeabody
(Anyone else belong on the combat training mention list?)

Another question for you guys:
How would you weight the importance of striking (especially trying to deal with multiple opponents) vs grappling for actual real world hostile encounters?

I do my best on "avoidance," but the most likely place for violence to happen to me personally is pirates, which is likely to involve multiple attackers and likely be settled with projectile weapons from a distance assuming I pick up on their presence in advance... But on the off chance I had them board me without noticing them approach first, then it'd likely be me fighting them belowdecks using weapons (or at worst striking), so again grappling isn't the most likely thing to happen unless I reduced the assailants down to one man at a time.

A theoretically more likely way to be attacked by only one man where grappling would have higher value would be with muggers, but again that'd be more likely to be settled with weapons...

Also, I never do anything that's even slightly illegal, but a third theoretic scenario would be if I got thrown in prison if someone fingered me for something or I got nabbed by third world cops and tossed in jail on a false charge or something, where fighting with weapons wouldn't be an option in there... In that case I can see learning more grappling and submission fighting as much more valuable...

[WilliamSmith]

Here is a video of an instructor incorporating traditional Jujitsu armlocks into modern grappling:




I recognize most of those armlocks from traditional (Japanese) Jujitsu. The only difference is that the instructor sets up all of these traditional armlocks from modern clinching positions commonly used in submission grappling and MMA and completely usable on the street. This makes their application realistic.

Often it is the case that traditional martial arts have the techniques but not the setups from a standpoint of realism. Conversely, modern combat sports have the setups but many of the old techniques have been lost (usually due to being seen as impractical).

As I've argued before, modern combat sports and traditional martial arts can really compliment each other. Modern combat sports such as MMA and submission grappling give us all of the correct body positioning, clinching techniques, setups and combat mechanics needed for a struggle against a resisting opponent while TMAs often include certain violent techniques "for the streets". Learn to integrate them both and you have a very effective combat system.

@Cornfed, you've talked about standing armlocks and such. The instructor in the video teaches such techniques with realistic setups (something which tends to be absent in the way they are taught in TMAs and self-defense courses).

@WilliamSmith, I think that you'll find these techniques interesting too since their application in the video reflects a theme that we talked about in this very thread - the blending of MMA with TMA and self-defense techniques.

@Lucas88
Hey, thanks man! I missed this post before, but just saw this and nabbed that video and will study it.
I personally think that kind of technique makes way more sense for me to study vs just overall wrestling and grappling, which I think is cool and practical but has kind of high opportunity cost vs time I have for training with practical civilian weapons and striking that are more likely to actually help me come out on top if hostile encounters happen to me IRL, LOL.)

[Lucas88]

Another question for you guys:
How would you weight the importance of striking (especially trying to deal with multiple opponents) vs grappling for actual real world hostile encounters?

In actual real-world hostile encounters, striking and grappling tend to merge together in my experience. In the street you rarely see two dudes squaring off in a kickboxing stance and with perfect distance management trading combinations and patiently looking to counter each other - unless they happen to be trained fighters. Lol! Most of the time it's crazed brawlers throwing wild haymakers and tussling around at close range while attempting to hit their opponent with flurries of uppercuts and other types of close-range strikes.

This is why I think that Muay Thai and wrestling go together really well and are ideal for real-world street fights. With Muay Thai, you've got long-range punches and kicks, and close-range knees and elbows from the clinch, and then with wrestling, you have far greater-than-average control in the clinch, throws, takedowns, basic ground control, and the ability to scramble and get back up to your feet if you get knocked down or taken down.

About 6 months of intense Muay Thai training plus another 6 months of intense wrestling training should be enough for you to drastically improve your fighting ability relative to the general population.

Alternatively, you could two 2 Muay Thai sessions and 2 wrestling sessions a week and probably get good results with about a year of training. You would certainly have a good enough base for street fighting against regular Joes.

@Lucas88
Hey, thanks man! I missed this post before, but just saw this and nabbed that video and will study it.
I personally think that kind of technique makes way more sense for me to study vs just overall wrestling and grappling, which I think is cool and practical but has kind of high opportunity cost vs time I have for training with practical civilian weapons and striking that are more likely to actually help me come out on top if hostile encounters happen to me IRL, LOL.)

Get down about a year of regular wrestling/grappling training before learning the kinds of techniques (for the streets) included in the video.

The reason why the instructor is able to make those more "traditional" armlocks work in an actual physical contest is because he's already mastered the fundamentals of grappling (grips, posture, body control, etc.) and can therefore set them up effectively. With combat arts, you've first got to develop your base - all of those subtle and difficult-to-quantify skills that only come with months or years of consistent training in something like wrestling or Jiujitsu - and then you can start to add the techniques.

[Lucas88]

Hey @WilliamSmith and @Pixel--Dude,

Look at this effective use of Muay Thai in this MMA fight between Marina Rodriguez and Michelle "the Karate Hottie" Waterson at UFC Vegas 79!




Marina just f***s Michelle up with knees and elbows from the clinch. It's brutal. Total battery bordering on thuggery!

This is an excellent display of the effectiveness of the Muay Thai clinch and its application in a fight if there was ever any doubt.

I had mixed feelings watching it. On the one hand, I was fascinated by the extent to which Muay Thai skills were being used to brutalize another human being in the octagon (from the perspective of a martial artist and scholar of violence); on the other hand, I felt uncomfortable watching a nice feminine lady like the Karate Hottie getting brutally beaten down.